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 Post subject: Re: Blog: Taking a stand
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:58 am 
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Rich wrote:
AQNOR wrote:
Yes it took a few more posts than usual but sadly turned to the playbook. Hitler and Taliban you can almost write the script.


Actually, he is right. There were some of those characteristics exhibited in this thread.

Ideological purity
Compromise as weakness
Unmoved by facts
Undeterred by new information
Intolerance of dissent

I'm actually happy to see how self aware he is.


Are you calling me out? Please tell me no, just PM me and tell me you aren't. Heck, I'll even post in this thread and say I'm afraid to take on the great Thrawn. I'm a nobody. I came out of the shadows because I felt K-dash put himself out there and he deserved somebody to give their opinions on it. I don't need people on the internet to validate my opinions, and I don't want to be a personality on the internet. I know basically any discussion you involve yourself in on the internet is a waste of time. You can't get an honest debate. And the discussion, particularly this one, doesn't matter. I'm in no position to affect the outcome to this problem, if there is one, even if I do and I doubt anyone on this board can. Yes, my vote counts in the upcoming elections, but this possible issue isn't really being discussed.

And I'll say this. Am I a self aware person? Yes I am. The problem with that is, while it would seem you'd be the perfect person to evaluate yourself, you're not. You know who you are and what you believe in, but is impossible to accurately evaluate yourself. And outside people (observers) can't either. The truth is a mix of both opinions. I think I can say these things about myself. I'm very pragmatic, which helps me do my job well. I know the difference between fiction and reality, and how that affects peoples' responses. Fiction requires the writer to smooth out the impossible reality that humans aren't completely logical, so their reactions to things can't be predicted exactly, but in fiction they have to, based on the persona of a character written.

I have a talent that makes me a great devils' advocate. However, I'm extremely susceptible to falling for a cause that requires a hero to set out on a fool's errand, crusading. Something that never ends well. For me.

I'll happily admit the only time my opinion matters is with my clients. And that's not a case of them admitting I'm right, glorifying me. It's this agonizing burden to make sure they aren't going to be hung from a figurative lamp post by their reviewers.

So, if you're calling me out to debate, fine. I don't want to debate you Rich, you're not at the top of your game. But if you want to go toe to toe, fine. You have to accept we'll have to set ground rules for it. You have to answer when I ask you to answer a question, none of your trademark dodging or saying you don't have time.. You to defend your position with actual facts I can dispute, none of this I can provide them, but Don't thingy. As will I. We agree to the topic specifically before we go at it and have a moderator for the debate. Otherwise, just let me fade to the shadows.


Last edited by apatos13 on Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Blog: Taking a stand
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:50 am 
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Yes!!! Toe to toe on a message board!!! Lol


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 Post subject: Re: Blog: Taking a stand
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:00 am 
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zatrex99 wrote:

if you want to take me on, ...


If I were you, I'd run away, ..


You have come on here and spoken for K-dash in something I posted to him. You have tried to order things your way by saying Rich can not participate in this discussion because you have judged him unworthy. You have tried to smear others because they do not happen to agree with your position by comparing them to the Taliban and now you are trying to intimidate me through a computer screen. You think you can tell others they have to do things your way.

Since you have shown yourself to be free in giving me advice I will return the favor. Get over yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Blog: Taking a stand
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:34 am 
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AQNOR wrote:
Since you have shown yourself to be free in giving me advice I will return the favor. Get over yourself.


I was actually doing that until you posted this:

Quote:
Since a prediction about many were made I will make one about the person who posted. I think your response Rich will go right over their head.


Were you not calling me out to reexamine 'my inflexible position'? I would very much would like to know how I got this wrong so I can put my donkey back in the barn. An old priest really can not be a crusader against injustice, it's just absurd. (Don Quixote) This is why I nicely warned you, you had to understand the context of Newsroom and their American Taliban quote.

“When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? Perhaps to be too practical is madness. To surrender dreams — this may be madness. Too much sanity may be madness — and maddest of all: to see life as it is, and not as it should be!”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

But if you really care about j-dash, read his original post to understand what he was asking for. He was the one who really stuck his neck out and got smacked for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Blog: Taking a stand
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:06 pm 
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You "nicely warned me". Still trying to threaten me through a computer screen. An internet tough guy. No I will not do what you tell me to do. I have already read and tried to engage K-dash in a dialogue I will wait and see if he chooses to respond or not. If he chooses to name you as his spokesperson then I will go forward from there but until that time. Adios.


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 Post subject: Re: Blog: Taking a stand
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:11 pm 
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AQNOR wrote:
K-dash I am listening. I am curious what do you hear being said.


So I've had a lot of time to think about this, Aqnor. And I probably wouldn't have answered you this way a few days ago. But I'm over that. Here's your answer.

I hear a bunch of guys that are justifiably indignant and offended at an ill-advised decision by four players on the team exercising their right of free speech in a way that offends many of us at a very deep level. I believe they are wrong for doing so and I believe that the response is understandable and predictable. I do not fault anyone for their criticism of their decision.

I see the riots and the self-destructive behavior of the black communities that are being represented by the BLM movement and I shake my head. I don't comprehend what good anyone thinks can come of such behavior for themselves selfishly or for their cause. I can't relate to the lives they lead or how they would come to such a place where what they do could be considered normal. It's foreign to me.

So, my response to all of that is to ask the question "why?". Why are they doing this? Why do people like Foster feel like people are being oppressed? What's going on to create that perception? I want to understand. That doesn't mean I agree. I just want to understand. That's what I wrote about. This thread has become a debate about the validity of their cause, or the credibility of those who represent it, and a forum to discuss how misguided the players were. That's fine with me.

I don't feel personally attacked by anyone, because I understand why everybody is so pissed. I am proud to have served in the army and my first response to what Kapaernick did was to want to punch him in the face. Now, I kinda still want to, but I'm trying to understand.

Hope that answers your question.


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 Post subject: Re: Blog: Taking a stand
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:41 pm 
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AQNOR wrote:
You "nicely warned me". Still trying to threaten me through a computer screen. An internet tough guy. No I will not do what you tell me to do. I have already read and tried to engage K-dash in a dialogue I will wait and see if he chooses to respond or not. If he chooses to name you as his spokesperson then I will go forward from there but until that time. Adios.


Just remember you posted this:
Quote:
Since a prediction about many were made I will make one about the person who posted. I think your response Rich will go right over their head.


I showed up ready to listen, proving you wrong and you declined. I respect your decision, so now respect mine. I'm now free to ignore you and am not obligated to engage you again.


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 Post subject: Re: Blog: Taking a stand
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:44 pm 
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Thanks K-dash for your taking the time to respond. I think I get what you are saying. Does this sound right, you are saying you want to try and understand from the source why the people making the protest feel the way they do. If I understand you correctly you are encouraging others to listen too.

I am trying to understand if there is a place you have found to listen. I know we have some soundbites and some texts from at least one source you want to listen too. I was trying to see if you have found any answers yet. Just from the limited and probably not full thoughts that have been provided that it was police brutality plus, I think it was mentioned systemic racism in the prison system, school system and education may have been said and am not sure if that is a different point or was just an emphasis.

I guess I am asking is that what you are hearing. Are you hearing different things. I am also curious if after hearing then what. Are you interested in a discussion of things here on this board that might have something to do with what you are hearing or was it just a heartfelt plea for others to listen. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Blog: Taking a stand
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:42 pm 
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zatrex99 wrote:

if you want to take me on, ...


If I were you, I'd run away, ..


Oh brother. Now it's becoming a comedic routine.

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 Post subject: Re: Blog: Taking a stand
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:48 pm 
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k-dash wrote:
AQNOR wrote:
K-dash I am listening. I am curious what do you hear being said.


So I've had a lot of time to think about this, Aqnor. And I probably wouldn't have answered you this way a few days ago. But I'm over that. Here's your answer.

I hear a bunch of guys that are justifiably indignant and offended at an ill-advised decision by four players on the team exercising their right of free speech in a way that offends many of us at a very deep level. I believe they are wrong for doing so and I believe that the response is understandable and predictable. I do not fault anyone for their criticism of their decision.

I see the riots and the self-destructive behavior of the black communities that are being represented by the BLM movement and I shake my head. I don't comprehend what good anyone thinks can come of such behavior for themselves selfishly or for their cause. I can't relate to the lives they lead or how they would come to such a place where what they do could be considered normal. It's foreign to me.

So, my response to all of that is to ask the question "why?". Why are they doing this? Why do people like Foster feel like people are being oppressed? What's going on to create that perception? I want to understand. That doesn't mean I agree. I just want to understand. That's what I wrote about. This thread has become a debate about the validity of their cause, or the credibility of those who represent it, and a forum to discuss how misguided the players were. That's fine with me.

I don't feel personally attacked by anyone, because I understand why everybody is so pissed. I am proud to have served in the army and my first response to what Kapaernick did was to want to punch him in the face. Now, I kinda still want to, but I'm trying to understand.

Hope that answers your question.


Great post. I think there is a significant level of low self-esteem in the black community due to the history in this country from slavery to segregation and on and on. This leads to a level of desperation and helplessness that manifests itself into anger. And then there are the vultures who of course take advantage of this, but I think the majority comes down to self-esteem. Other cultures that have come to this country are able to integrate because they have been put thru less.

But in my opinion, the addressing of this self esteem issue has to come from within. No amount of reparation or affirmative action is going to fix the past.

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 Post subject: Re: Blog: Taking a stand
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:53 pm 
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zatrex99 wrote:
Otherwise, just let me fade to the shadows.


Oh after the internet tough guy routine you're performing here, I'm going to go ahead and put you back in the shadows until I need a good laugh again. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Blog: Taking a stand
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:07 pm 
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Rich wrote:
zatrex99 wrote:
Otherwise, just let me fade to the shadows.


Oh after the internet tough guy routine you're performing here, I'm going to go ahead and put you back in the shadows until I need a good laugh again. :)


We don't need to debate. I found my reason to give Aaron Sorkin his donkey and sword back. No need to be a greater fool.

This article made me do a 180 on my gun control stance. My opinion has changed.

https://www.policeone.com/Gun-Legislation-Law-Enforcement/articles/6186552-Police-Gun-Control-Survey-Are-legally-armed-citizens-the-best-solution-to-gun-violence/

[*]And when it comes to finding ways to reduce gun violence and large scale shootings, most cops say a federal ban on so-called “assault weapons” isn’t the answer.

[*]More than 91 percent of respondents say it would either have no effect or a negative effect in reducing violent crime. This is an overwhelming response by those whose job it is to actually deal with this issue on the front lines.

[*]What would help most in preventing large scale shootings in public? The most popular answer among respondents – at 29 percent – was “more permissive concealed carry policies for civilians,” while 20 percent choose “more-aggressive institutionalization for mentally ill persons.”

I also found this, which invalidates my interruption of previous found statistics that founded my stance before:

[*] But while it’s true that there is no adequate federal database of fatal police shootings (F.B.I. director James Comey has described the lack of data as “embarrassing and ridiculous”), there exists a wealth of academic research, official and media investigations, and court rulings on the topic of race and law enforcement.

https://www.policeone.com/Gun-Legislation-Law-Enforcement/articles/6186552-Police-Gun-Control-Survey-Are-legally-armed-citizens-the-best-solution-to-gun-violence/

Thanks to your helping me understand how to correctly interpret articles in publications, I can ignore this info found in the same article:

[*]2. An independent analysis of Washington Post data on police killings found that, “when factoring in threat level, black Americans who are fatally shot by police are, in fact, less likely to be posing an imminent lethal threat to the officers at the moment they are killed than white Americans fatally shot by police.” According to one of the report’s authors, “The only thing that was significant in predicting whether someone shot and killed by police was unarmed was whether or not they were black. . . . Crime variables did not matter in terms of predicting whether the person killed was unarmed.”

It's a liberal publication who invalidated it with their opening paragraph.

So thank you Rich
for helping me see the errors of my ways. I do feel I can now actually be a helpful contributor and I sincerely apologize to those I offended. I'm still going to have to go back to lurking, because busy season in my profession just started a couple of weeks early.

It should be noted I compiled this before watching the game today.


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 Post subject: Re: Blog: Taking a stand
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:57 pm 
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Nicely done.


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 Post subject: Re: Blog: Taking a stand
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:23 am 
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I practiced gun control on sat morning at the range. I held it steady and controlled it while I pulled the trigger. It works!


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 Post subject: Re: Blog: Taking a stand
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:27 am 
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Makchell wrote:
I practiced gun control on sat morning at the range. I held it steady and controlled it while I pulled the trigger. It works!


Murderer. Did you use a legally purchased fully automatic machine gun with kevlar bullets?

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 Post subject: Re: Blog: Taking a stand
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:23 pm 
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Aim small, miss small.


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 Post subject: Re: Blog: Taking a stand
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:09 am 
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k-dash wrote:
AQNOR wrote:
K-dash I am listening. I am curious what do you hear being said.


So I've had a lot of time to think about this, Aqnor. And I probably wouldn't have answered you this way a few days ago. But I'm over that. Here's your answer.

I hear a bunch of guys that are justifiably indignant and offended at an ill-advised decision by four players on the team exercising their right of free speech in a way that offends many of us at a very deep level. I believe they are wrong for doing so and I believe that the response is understandable and predictable. I do not fault anyone for their criticism of their decision.

I see the riots and the self-destructive behavior of the black communities that are being represented by the BLM movement and I shake my head. I don't comprehend what good anyone thinks can come of such behavior for themselves selfishly or for their cause. I can't relate to the lives they lead or how they would come to such a place where what they do could be considered normal. It's foreign to me.

So, my response to all of that is to ask the question "why?". Why are they doing this? Why do people like Foster feel like people are being oppressed? What's going on to create that perception? I want to understand. That doesn't mean I agree. I just want to understand. That's what I wrote about. This thread has become a debate about the validity of their cause, or the credibility of those who represent it, and a forum to discuss how misguided the players were. That's fine with me.

I don't feel personally attacked by anyone, because I understand why everybody is so pissed. I am proud to have served in the army and my first response to what Kapaernick did was to want to punch him in the face. Now, I kinda still want to, but I'm trying to understand.

Hope that answers your question.


Kind of but what I was trying to get at was what I thought was your original appeal for people to listen to what the protestors were saying. I am interested in what you are hearing in regards to your saying you want to understand the "why"? What are you hearing about that part.

I think I heard a person you said or at least I thought you said would be worth listening to say that is was systemic racism in the school system, prison system and education or something to that effect. Is that what you heard and are hearing?

In addition are you interested in people on this forum offering their ideas and/or are you interested in a discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: Blog: Taking a stand
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:34 am 
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So what was the turnout of the Charlotte shooting? Was the police justified in shooting the guy that had a stolen guy and wouldn't put it down, who had a history of beating his wife?

I'm just curious if the perspective changed once the facts got out. Probably not... but we can hope.

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