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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:46 pm 
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Some interesting points were raised in this thread lamenting the lack of a viable 3rd party.

What wasn't mentioned, though, was the real reason why our system doesn't allow a 3rd party to sprout up and win in a presidential election year.

The Electoral College.

Ross Perot got 19% of the vote in 92... and won 0 electoral votes.
The last 3rd party nominee to get actual electoral votes was George Wallace, which was just embarrassing on all levels.

As for this year, imagine if Johnson widely exceeded expectations and did better than Perot in 92.

How much percent of the vote would he need to win SOME states? Then, let's assume he does better, what would happen? He still wouldn't win. Because if no candidate gets to 270, then the House picks the president. The House isn't picking Johnson. So, you would end up with Trump.

Because of the electoral college.

Get rid of it. Then, they have a chance.

Also, if 3rd parties only get attention in presidential election years, then you will never have them.

They need to win House and Senate seats. People need to see how they govern. Then, a run for president has a shot.

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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:52 am 
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1984phins wrote:
Some interesting points were raised in this thread lamenting the lack of a viable 3rd party.

What wasn't mentioned, though, was the real reason why our system doesn't allow a 3rd party to sprout up and win in a presidential election year.

The Electoral College.

Ross Perot got 19% of the vote in 92... and won 0 electoral votes.
The last 3rd party nominee to get actual electoral votes was George Wallace, which was just embarrassing on all levels.

As for this year, imagine if Johnson widely exceeded expectations and did better than Perot in 92.

How much percent of the vote would he need to win SOME states? Then, let's assume he does better, what would happen? He still wouldn't win. Because if no candidate gets to 270, then the House picks the president. The House isn't picking Johnson. So, you would end up with Trump.

Because of the electoral college.

Get rid of it. Then, they have a chance.

Also, if 3rd parties only get attention in presidential election years, then you will never have them.

They need to win House and Senate seats. People need to see how they govern. Then, a run for president has a shot.


The only way to change the dynamic is to change it at the top. We have had third party governors and congressmen before and it has fizzled out.

And Perot is a poor example. Here is a guy who was beating both Clinton and Bush after the conventions and before the debates and then just... decided to drop out for a couple of months before jumping back in. The damage had been done.

If Gary Johnson gets in the debates, we will have a candidate on stage that is neither EXTREMELY corrupt nor EXTREMELY bombastic.

And this argument of "win some congressional seats" sounds like an excuse for people who simply want to do what they have always done, even if their party's candidate is, as we see on both sides this year, completely unacceptable.

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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:03 am 
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Good points 84'. If anything this past two primaries have shown how corupt these elections have been. Bernie never had a chance despite winning so many states. Same with the GOP. The fact that Trump actually won this nomination despite the GOP elite to thwart the American people should earn him respect. He has earned mine. If there is any change to the electoral college you can thank him. Bernie STFU and got right in line behind Hillary. Like Trump or not , he's not going down without a fight. And when it's over and the smoke clears....there won't be many secrets left.


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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:05 pm 
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1984phins wrote:
Some interesting points were raised in this thread lamenting the lack of a viable 3rd party.

What wasn't mentioned, though, was the real reason why our system doesn't allow a 3rd party to sprout up and win in a presidential election year.

The Electoral College.

Ross Perot got 19% of the vote in 92... and won 0 electoral votes.
The last 3rd party nominee to get actual electoral votes was George Wallace, which was just embarrassing on all levels.

As for this year, imagine if Johnson widely exceeded expectations and did better than Perot in 92.

How much percent of the vote would he need to win SOME states? Then, let's assume he does better, what would happen? He still wouldn't win. Because if no candidate gets to 270, then the House picks the president. The House isn't picking Johnson. So, you would end up with Trump.

Because of the electoral college.

Get rid of it. Then, they have a chance.

Also, if 3rd parties only get attention in presidential election years, then you will never have them.

They need to win House and Senate seats. People need to see how they govern. Then, a run for president has a shot.


As much as I love the thought of eliminating the Electoral College, which I agree, would give a third party a much better chance of winning the presidency, that would essentially render the entire middle of the country virtually meaningless.

Candidates would simply campaign in the 15 or 20 biggest cities in the country and run up huge numbers there. At least now, candidates are forced to go to places like Nevada, New Hampshire, Wisconsin and Colorado to compete for their votes.

As a Democrat, I think eliminating the Electoral College would be beneficial to my own party. But I don't think it's fair for everyone.


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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:42 pm 
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MNDolfan wrote:
1984phins wrote:
Some interesting points were raised in this thread lamenting the lack of a viable 3rd party.

What wasn't mentioned, though, was the real reason why our system doesn't allow a 3rd party to sprout up and win in a presidential election year.

The Electoral College.

Ross Perot got 19% of the vote in 92... and won 0 electoral votes.
The last 3rd party nominee to get actual electoral votes was George Wallace, which was just embarrassing on all levels.

As for this year, imagine if Johnson widely exceeded expectations and did better than Perot in 92.

How much percent of the vote would he need to win SOME states? Then, let's assume he does better, what would happen? He still wouldn't win. Because if no candidate gets to 270, then the House picks the president. The House isn't picking Johnson. So, you would end up with Trump.

Because of the electoral college.

Get rid of it. Then, they have a chance.

Also, if 3rd parties only get attention in presidential election years, then you will never have them.

They need to win House and Senate seats. People need to see how they govern. Then, a run for president has a shot.


As much as I love the thought of eliminating the Electoral College, which I agree, would give a third party a much better chance of winning the presidency, that would essentially render the entire middle of the country virtually meaningless.

Candidates would simply campaign in the 15 or 20 biggest cities in the country and run up huge numbers there. At least now, candidates are forced to go to places like Nevada, New Hampshire, Wisconsin and Colorado to compete for their votes.

As a Democrat, I think eliminating the Electoral College would be beneficial to my own party. But I don't think it's fair for everyone.



Candidates already ignore 35-40 states anyway since they are safe for either party.

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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:52 pm 
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Rich wrote:

The only way to change the dynamic is to change it at the top. We have had third party governors and congressmen before and it has fizzled out.

And Perot is a poor example. Here is a guy who was beating both Clinton and Bush after the conventions and before the debates and then just... decided to drop out for a couple of months before jumping back in. The damage had been done.

If Gary Johnson gets in the debates, we will have a candidate on stage that is neither EXTREMELY corrupt nor EXTREMELY bombastic.

And this argument of "win some congressional seats" sounds like an excuse for people who simply want to do what they have always done, even if their party's candidate is, as we see on both sides this year, completely unacceptable.


Perot is a perfect example bc the issue I raised was the Electoral College. If 19% of the popular vote got him 0... Then that illustrates how the system gets in the way. Perot's qualities as a candidate doesn't matter for this particular point.

Johnson would have to double his support to reach Perot levels... What state(s) would that get him? Utah?

How in the world can he get 270? Answer that.

Top down cannot work... It hasn't before bc the other two parties have a stranglehold on the EC. Johnson ran in 2012 and got nothing. He is only getting better numbers now due to unpopularity of both candidates. So what if the winner in 16 does a good job? 2020 could very well have more popular candidates, which means less desire for a third party.

A sustained ground up is the only way to get the people to take them seriously. It gives them an idea how this third party governs. I bet most people in this election don't even know Johnsons policy issues, whereas they can generally know what a generic Dem or GOP stand for.

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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:09 am 
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1984phins wrote:
How in the world can he get 270? Answer that.


If he gets on the debate stage and shows people that they don't have to decide between the most corrupt politician ever and perhaps the most inept candidate ever, it could be a lot easier than you think.

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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:33 am 
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Oh no watch out Trump is starting to show signs of humility. If he could be believable in that and avoid the major piles he has been steeping in (both highly doubtable) he might have a chance. My plan is still to go 4th party. Write in. I must admit that the thoughts of Hillary in the White house are not pleasant. I do view Trump as the lesser of two evils just not enough ... yet. : )


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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:26 pm 
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AQNOR wrote:
Oh no watch out Trump is starting to show signs of humility. If he could be believable in that and avoid the major piles he has been steeping in (both highly doubtable) he might have a chance. My plan is still to go 4th party. Write in. I must admit that the thoughts of Hillary in the White house are not pleasant. I do view Trump as the lesser of two evils just not enough ... yet. : )


Trump could be a disaster due to ineptness.

Clinton could be a disaster on purpose.

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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:15 am 
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Rich wrote:
1984phins wrote:
How in the world can he get 270? Answer that.


If he gets on the debate stage and shows people that they don't have to decide between the most corrupt politician ever and perhaps the most inept candidate ever, it could be a lot easier than you think.



This still doesn't answer the question. What percent of the vote do you think it will take to be able to get 270 EVs?

Keep in mind, while Hillary does better in 2 way polls compared to ones including Johnson, it is logical that the reason for her lesser standing is due to Stein's inclusion. I imagine that Johnson takes some votes from Clinton, but a majority from Trump. Stein is overwhelmingly taking votes from Clinton though. And what if Trump narrows the lead? That won't help Johnson get into the debates.

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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:10 pm 
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1984phins wrote:
Keep in mind, while Hillary does better in 2 way polls compared to ones including Johnson, it is logical that the reason for her lesser standing is due to Stein's inclusion. I imagine that Johnson takes some votes from Clinton, but a majority from Trump. Stein is overwhelmingly taking votes from Clinton though. And what if Trump narrows the lead? That won't help Johnson get into the debates.


The interpretations I've read about suggest Johnson hurts Clinton more than Trump because the far left is drawn more to his social positions, and, do not trust Hillary's Wall St ties. I think that implies a lot of Bernie fans might like the Johnson alternative.

I've heard a few of the pollsters say that the closer we get to the election the more 3rd parties begin to lose support. In this case its probably amplified since there is such a strong crowd on both sides voting against rather than for the major candidates.

If what you say is true and 3rd party support changes the closer we get to the election then Trump has a fighting chance. The current RCP average in a 4 way battle is 42.6 for Clinton, 37.1 for Trump, 8.6 for Johnson and 3.1 for Stein.

Now if Johnson loses half his support and that goes to Trump by way of the No Hillary crowd, we pretty much have a tie. If Stein loses half her support it gives Hillary only a nudge.

The one factor I will keep pointing out is that I think there is a larger base of support for Trump than people realize. Even James Carville, the Clintons' good buddy, is saying that the polling samples are way too lopsided in favor of Democrats.

If I had to make a call now I'm saying Clinton wins, but its going to be closer than the polls are currently showing.


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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:46 pm 
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I see a lot of 4-way polls that have Jill Stein polling between 4-6 percent. While I think Johnson could ultimately earn somewhere in there, maybe even more, there is no way Stein wins 4-6 percent.

It's not a ton of votes, but it could be enough to swing a close election.


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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:20 am 
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Rich wrote:
AQNOR wrote:
Oh no watch out Trump is starting to show signs of humility. If he could be believable in that and avoid the major piles he has been steeping in (both highly doubtable) he might have a chance. My plan is still to go 4th party. Write in. I must admit that the thoughts of Hillary in the White house are not pleasant. I do view Trump as the lesser of two evils just not enough ... yet. : )


Trump could be a disaster due to ineptness.

Clinton could be a disaster on purpose.



Here is what your not getting. Trump has built some of the most impressive buildings in the world. Do you think he knows anything about plumbing? Electricity? Concrete? How to be a steel worker!?
Nope. But he knows how to hire the best, and get it done on time under budget. thats how he turned a $1 million loan into $10 Billion.

He already has many of the GOP best behind him. he will have staff to help him make decisions on how to put the best product out there for the American people. Not the most profitable for the Clinton Foundation , or Obamas Islamic socialist agenda.

The last week he has been on top of it. His Wisconsin speech was beyond motivating. It could be Historical. Remember when you called me a Trump fan boy ? I wasn't. I liked Rubio all along. But I wear that label proudly now. God bless America and all of you better pray this country wakes the F up.


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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:21 am 
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MNDolfan wrote:
I see a lot of 4-way polls that have Jill Stein polling between 4-6 percent. While I think Johnson could ultimately earn somewhere in there, maybe even more, there is no way Stein wins 4-6 percent.

It's not a ton of votes, but it could be enough to swing a close election.



I agree. And I'm really afraid of voter fraud in this election. The Clintons will pull out all the stops. Including making Felons able to vote.


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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:33 am 
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MiamiMenace wrote:
Rich wrote:
AQNOR wrote:
Oh no watch out Trump is starting to show signs of humility. If he could be believable in that and avoid the major piles he has been steeping in (both highly doubtable) he might have a chance. My plan is still to go 4th party. Write in. I must admit that the thoughts of Hillary in the White house are not pleasant. I do view Trump as the lesser of two evils just not enough ... yet. : )


Trump could be a disaster due to ineptness.

Clinton could be a disaster on purpose.



Here is what your not getting. Trump has built some of the most impressive buildings in the world. Do you think he knows anything about plumbing? Electricity? Concrete? How to be a steel worker!?
Nope. But he knows how to hire the best, and get it done on time under budget. thats how he turned a $1 million loan into $10 Billion.

He already has many of the GOP best behind him. he will have staff to help him make decisions on how to put the best product out there for the American people. Not the most profitable for the Clinton Foundation , or Obamas Islamic socialist agenda.

The last week he has been on top of it. His Wisconsin speech was beyond motivating. It could be Historical. Remember when you called me a Trump fan boy ? I wasn't. I liked Rubio all along. But I wear that label proudly now. God bless America and all of you better pray this country wakes the F up.


A). No proof he is worth $10 billion. A recent article is out saying he has 650 mill in debt.
B). "Obama's Islamic". Lololololololololololol.
C). Historical speech? Lololololololololololol.
D). Hires the best? That's why he's on his 3rd campaign manager, right?

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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:37 am 
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MiamiMenace wrote:
MNDolfan wrote:
I see a lot of 4-way polls that have Jill Stein polling between 4-6 percent. While I think Johnson could ultimately earn somewhere in there, maybe even more, there is no way Stein wins 4-6 percent.

It's not a ton of votes, but it could be enough to swing a close election.



I agree. And I'm really afraid of voter fraud in this election. The Clintons will pull out all the stops. Including making Felons able to vote.


Afraid of voter fraud? Like actually swinging the election???

:) :) :) :)

Man, if Trump said that the 1974 Dolphins went 17-0, you'd believe him.

Oh, btw: check the current swing states and see which party controls the elections. Hint: most controlled by the GOP.

MiamiMenace, have fun voting for Trump. It's your right. But these conspiracy theories, on the other hand....

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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:44 pm 
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Quote:
1984phins wrote:


A). No proof he is worth $10 billion. A recent article is out saying he has 650 mill in debt.
B). "Obama's Islamic". Lololololololololololol.
C). Historical speech? Lololololololololololol.
D). Hires the best? That's why he's on his 3rd campaign manager, right?



So in other words you have nothing. Your just sticking with your "team" no matter what. Thats great for America.

I tell you what.....I'm a Dolphins fan, I bleed Aqua and Orange. But if I found out The Phins were going to ruin my Kids lives and future grandchildren , and the JETS had their hearts in the right place? I'd become a Jets fan.


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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:47 pm 
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1984phins wrote:
MiamiMenace wrote:
MNDolfan wrote:
I see a lot of 4-way polls that have Jill Stein polling between 4-6 percent. While I think Johnson could ultimately earn somewhere in there, maybe even more, there is no way Stein wins 4-6 percent.

It's not a ton of votes, but it could be enough to swing a close election.



I agree. And I'm really afraid of voter fraud in this election. The Clintons will pull out all the stops. Including making Felons able to vote.


Afraid of voter fraud? Like actually swinging the election???

:) :) :) :)

Man, if Trump said that the 1974 Dolphins went 17-0, you'd believe him.

Oh, btw: check the current swing states and see which party controls the elections. Hint: most controlled by the GOP.

MiamiMenace, have fun voting for Trump. It's your right. But these conspiracy theories, on the other hand....




Your right......Ms Clinton and the DEMS didnt rig the Primary right? That didn't happen? If your interested in real change......, Finally pulling down the inept goverment , giving it back to the people this may be Americas Only chance.

So far I made statements you had no answers for. Only fake laughing and mocking. Thats a sure sign of a nervous person. :headscratch


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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:45 pm 
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MiamiMenace wrote:

So in other words you have nothing. Your just sticking with your "team" no matter what. Thats great for America.



I voted for Kerry, Obama, Obama. I'd vote for Bush, McCain, and Romney a million times over Trump.

Who did you vote for in the last three elections?

And I responded to you: he's not as rich as he says he is, he has lots of debt. He's on his third campaign chair, so he doesn't always hire the best, does he?

And Trumps black outreach speech is a joke. But that's a subjective argument anyway.

As for Obama and Islamic, just what are you implying there?

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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:51 pm 
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MiamiMenace wrote:
1984phins wrote:
MiamiMenace wrote:

Your right......Ms Clinton and the DEMS didnt rig the Primary right? That didn't happen? If your interested in real change......, Finally pulling down the inept goverment , giving it back to the people this may be Americas Only chance.

So far I made statements you had no answers for. Only fake laughing and mocking. Thats a sure sign of a nervous person. :headscratch


Prove the rigging.

As for inept government, Americans reelect Congressman at over a 90% rate. That's your problem.

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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:07 am 
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1984phins wrote:
MiamiMenace wrote:
1984phins wrote:
MiamiMenace wrote:

Prove the rigging.

As for inept government, Americans reelect Congressman at over a 90% rate. That's your problem.



So you want to state here that the Democratic Primary was not rigged for Hillary Clinton to win ?

:hithead: You dems are sick people. Almost robotically wired to lie , circumvent and never admit to the lies and corruption. I guess we cant have an honest productive conversation. Ohhh and what was Ms Wasserman -Shultz fired for again? :yay:

As far as the 90% turnover for congress TRUMP will push for term limits once in office. See he actually DOES want actual change. Unlike the RINO GOP and the Dems.


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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:53 am 
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MiamiMenace wrote:

So you want to state here that the Democratic Primary was not rigged for Hillary Clinton to win ?

:hithead: You dems are sick people. Almost robotically wired to lie , circumvent and never admit to the lies and corruption. I guess we cant have an honest productive conversation. Ohhh and what was Ms Wasserman -Shultz fired for again? :yay:

As far as the 90% turnover for congress TRUMP will push for term limits once in office. See he actually DOES want actual change. Unlike the RINO GOP and the Dems.


I do. What the leaders in the Democratic Party want didn't matter. It certainly didn't matter that the GOP wanted anybody but Trump to win. If that is the best claim you got, then you failed prove a rigged election.

An actual rigged election would include hacking voting machines to change votes, massive impersonation of voters to cast illegal votes, etc. You got any of that? Please link to actual news sites if you do. You

Oh, and who did you vote for the last three elections?

As for Dems being sick, thanks. That was such a witty rhetorical remark, I'm dumbstruck.

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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:42 am 
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The Democratic Party purposely changed the rules leading up to the primary to ensure a Hillary win. It is why Bernie Sanders would win states by wide margins and somehow Hillary would still get half or more of the delegates in that state.

Here are the facts.

DWS was in it for Clinton. Even though she was problematic as the DNC chair, Obama decided to leave her there and do nothing about her. Clinton benefited. Interestingly enough, Clinton's running mate is the former DNC chair that recommended DWS. After DWS gets exposed and ousted, Clinton hires her for a better job.

Take care of the Clintons, you get taken care of, no matter what you do.

Maybe this is not an example of the election being rigged (although there have always been stories about the Clintons and the Diebold voting machines), but it is an example of how the system was rigged to favor Clinton.

Both parties rigged the system to favor insider candidates. The entire system is rigged to favor the two party system, which is in fact a monolithic system since both parties wind up doing the same crap in the long run.

You all are sitting here arguing about Trump better than Clinton or Clinton better than Trump. You're wasting your time and you're wasting your vote. You're definitely wasting your vote on Clinton, she is a dinosaur of the two party system. The very thing people detest. That and she has virtually no accomplishments in her 30 years of public life besides some book. She will continue the same war mongering and excessive spending we've seen in our government for decades. And Trump is inept. As pointed out, he can't even get his campaign on solid footing. The only reason he won the primary is because 16 other people were splitting the vote. If he had been running against 1 or 2 people, he would not be here today.

But keep arguing and wasting your times over these two buffoons that will do nothing but continue driving up our debt and destroying our country.

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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:10 am 
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Rich, a quick search pulled up this text from the WP: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mon ... ary-works/

It says Dems haven't changed delegate allocating rules this cycle. It is using the same rules as 12. Do you have an article since this was was written (2015) that says the rules were changed?


Is this the first time you are going to vote a person for president that's isn't a Dem or GOP candidate?

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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:24 am 
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Why would the Dems change the rules in 2012? They had incumbent president unopposed in the primaries.

Here is an interesting HUFFPO article on how the DNC and Clinton campaign colluded.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abra ... 76274.html

It is not the first time I support a candidate that is not from the two major parties.

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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:07 pm 
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Jill Stein . Johnson second. We need an end to the 2 party system and amend the constitution to give term limits to Congress. We are no longer a real democracy and it is time to take this country back


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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:24 am 
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rea7474 wrote:
Jill Stein . Johnson second. We need an end to the 2 party system and amend the constitution to give term limits to Congress. We are no longer a real democracy and it is time to take this country back


We've never been a "real democracy". We've always been a constitutional republic. The problem is our politicians have forgotten about said Constitution.

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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:35 pm 
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Rich wrote:
rea7474 wrote:
Jill Stein . Johnson second. We need an end to the 2 party system and amend the constitution to give term limits to Congress. We are no longer a real democracy and it is time to take this country back


We've never been a "real democracy". We've always been a constitutional republic. The problem is our politicians have forgotten about said Constitution.


I disagree, they haven't forgotten, they purposely choose to ignore it. I think a two limit for Congressmen and a 1 term limit for Senators would be a giant step in the right direction to reduce corporate influence in politics.


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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:54 pm 
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rea7474 wrote:
Rich wrote:
rea7474 wrote:
Jill Stein . Johnson second. We need an end to the 2 party system and amend the constitution to give term limits to Congress. We are no longer a real democracy and it is time to take this country back


We've never been a "real democracy". We've always been a constitutional republic. The problem is our politicians have forgotten about said Constitution.


I disagree, they haven't forgotten, they purposely choose to ignore it. I think a two limit for Congressmen and a 1 term limit for Senators would be a giant step in the right direction to reduce corporate influence in politics.


I agree. While we're at it, let's trim those pensions and eliminate increase in pay for politicians as long as we continue to be in debt.

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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:19 pm 
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The founding fathers had the idea that well educated citizens would take a break from their regular life and serve in Congress to help the country...a career it was never supposed to be. This is the root of the problem to me.


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 Post subject: Re: I have been..
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:39 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Why would the Dems change the rules in 2012? They had incumbent president unopposed in the primaries.

Here is an interesting HUFFPO article on how the DNC and Clinton campaign colluded.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abra ... 76274.html

It is not the first time I support a candidate that is not from the two major parties.


Well, let's focus on this interesting discussion for now. I don't know how old you are, but let's focus on the last 4 elections. Which minor party presidential candidates did you vote for in 00,04,08,12?

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