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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:30 am 
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Pick 18 needs to be Etienne or Harris if the Dolphins want one of the two best backs in the draft. Etienne and Harris can do it all, so, I would draft quality. I know we could use an Edge rusher, too. I guess the question is, "are mocks in tune with the teams?" At this point in the mock process they are usually catching up.

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3. By the way, running backs Travis Etienne and Najee Harris go in successive picks in McShay’s draft. Etienne goes No. 23 to the Jets and Harris No. 24 to Pittsburgh. The larger point is running backs are moving up in the mocks as they come more into line with what teams have been thinking for a while. In other words, the Dolphins taking a running back at No 18 wouldn’t be a shocker now.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:46 am 
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I love Harris, but it is hard to argue with past drafts, where superb running backs are just as likely to be found in rounds 2 and 3 as round 1. I would be okay, with taking him at 18, I suppose, but I sure hope we don't trade up for him. I'd like to see more film on Javonte Williams, to see if he would be a poor man's N. Harris. We could probably get him at #50.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:46 am 
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I don't see any backs being taken in the first round. I see a run of DL/OL/CB in the late portion of the first round. Miami will be able to snag a back high in round 2 if needed.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:04 am 
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vcu2000 wrote:
I don't see any backs being taken in the first round. I see a run of DL/OL/CB in the late portion of the first round. Miami will be able to snag a back high in round 2 if needed.

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I want a RB in first round, but if we know what Flores wants he is thinking DE if one is at 18. If we trade up from 18 I really think it's going to be for a pass rusher.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:06 am 
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I think we go defense/DE/OLB at 18. I think it's more of an immediate need. If we want a RB in first Id rather trade down in the 20s like we did last year.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:20 am 
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vcu2000 wrote:
I think we go defense/DE/OLB at 18. I think it's more of an immediate need. If we want a RB in first Id rather trade down in the 20s like we did last year.

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I don't think we should decide ahead of time. If Slater slips down to 18, then I think we have to take him. Heck, I might even take J. Fields if he fell to 18. If there is a run on DE and LB earlier in the round, I don't think we should take just take the best DE/LB available, if an elite player at another position has dropped as a consequence. For example, if Caleb Farley or Patrick Surtain is available, we should consider him.

My dream would be to trade down to the mid 20s and still get Harris, but it is risky, so if they do that, there better be several other players available in the mid 20s that they like as well as they do Harris.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:54 pm 
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You’ll likely have better value at RB that far down into the 1st. By pick 18 the top 5 pass rushers may all be off the board while the best RB in the country is still available.

prof123 wrote:
I love Harris, but it is hard to argue with past drafts, where superb running backs are just as likely to be found in rounds 2 and 3 as round 1.


Also a good point. If you think you have the NFL draft dissected into a science, you are wrong...and wasting your time.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:57 pm 
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Be emotionally ready for a similar Dolphins RB draft to last year.

Just saying.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:30 pm 
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I still want them to grab Rhamondre Stevenson...he will be there later and is a freakish athlete for such a big guy. Superb balance, tacklers bounce off him....nasty stiff arm and decentl speed. He has good hands as well. He will get yards after contact. Najee Harris will be gone in the first round...and sure, I prefer his skill set, but we need an edge rusher and Stevenson would still be a huge upgrade for us.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:34 pm 
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This team does desperately need talent at RB to give Tua a much needed leg up. Taking a back in R1 is almost certainly in the cards for Grier. He’s the crown jewel of a franchise starved at the position for half a lifetime. They’ll do anything they can to assist him.

This draft is very crucial...you guys know a lot more about the draft class than I do so it’ll be interesting to catch it live and see what some of you have to say.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:12 pm 
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Another way to improve the running games is to improve the o-line.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:03 pm 
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This year Phinished is pushing Rhamondre Stevenson. Last year it was Salvon Ahmed.
He's got a pretty good off-the-radar RB feel.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:11 pm 
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jgod1 wrote:
This year Phinished is pushing Rhamondre Stevenson. Last year it was Salvon Ahmed.
He's got a pretty good off-the-radar RB feel.


Good point! There haven't been many BIG running backs recently who have dominated at the NFL level. Of course, Derrick Henry is an example. Maybe Stevenson is next? There aren't many backs who can punish defenses. Those that do usually have short careers.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:28 am 
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If Slater slips down to 18, then I think we have to take him. ...... If there is a run on DE and LB earlier in the round, I don't think we should take just take the best DE/LB available....

My dream would be to trade down to the mid 20s and still get Harris


Don’t risk losing Harris for this overrated, analytics heavy, nonsense of draft value...there are a ton of stories out there of blown chances at a no. 1 because of the player’s so-called pre-draft value. Harris is a player, he can start right away. Give him the ball, tell him to run there and the rest is up to him. A WR has to adapt to the technical hyperbolic of NFL coaches. Can he read the coverage? Is there a blitz where he has to break off the pattern? Can he beat the DB at the LOS? Do we put him in motion? Then, if it all that works out, the QB has to be able to read the defense, is it his no. 1 look, and of course the line has to give him time, can this QB throw the ball over the rushing linemen, and if all that works, maybe, have the guy catch it....I can gurantee that Tua can complete a handoff, not so much a forward pass.

For all the feel good about Grier trading out of 3, he screwed up going from 12 to 6, losing a future no. 1. So, make up for that, trade down from 6, get Harris with the pick you get, top 15 I hope, get Phillips with other 1st rounder, then look for a WR later, there are plenty of them. The guy is likely to warm the bench for awhile anyway, no matter who he is.

Fins have to come out of this draft with Harris. They have nothing back there now. At least they already gave Tua a new toy in Fuller at WR.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:58 am 
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jgod1 wrote:
This year Phinished is pushing Rhamondre Stevenson. Last year it was Salvon Ahmed.
He's got a pretty good off-the-radar RB feel.


I was thinking the same thing. I just got the Draft Bible and looked him up. Serritella has him 11th with a 5th round grade. Sounds talented.

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Draft Bible wrote:
RHAMONDRE STEVENSON | Oklahoma | RB | #29 | Sr | 5116 | 246 | Las Vegas, NV | Centennial | 02.23.98 (23)

Overview: Continuing the trend of talented downhill runners in the Sooners’ backfield, Stevenson is a powerfully built runner who could easily be mistaken as a linebacker on the field. Serving as a part-time ball-carrier in 2019, Stevenson put impressive chunk plays on film, leading to an outstanding eight yards-per-carry average on 64 carries. After returning from suspension in 2020, Stevenson received the bulk of the carries for the first time in his Sooners career. Stevenson is your quintessential power runner who breaks a ton of tackles while creating a significant amount of yardage after contact. When Stevenson is able to break the second level, he has a little more straight-line speed than anticipated. Tight-hipped with limited wiggle, Stevenson has an underwhelming change-of-direction ability, lacking the talent to make players miss on the second level and in space. He also has almost no impact in the passing game, which seriously limits his effectiveness on the next level, fitting him into mostly a niche role. In a perfect world, Stevenson’s physicality may make him a strong candidate for a backfield by committee approach. From there, his development will speak to his long-term fit from a macro level.

Quote of Note: "The most he's helped me out is the reading of the defenses and just knowing what's going to happen before it happens and just instilling that I need to run hard and finish plays every play." — Rhamondre Stevenson on working with Sooners Running Back Coach DeMarco Murray

Background: Name pronounced “ruh-MON-dray.” Raised in Las Vegas, Nevada; earned a kinesiology degree in junior college; human relations major. Played JUCO in 2017-18. Played in 13 of 14 games (suspended one game as junior). Did not qualify due to poor grades in high school. Was suspended for the 2019 bowl game because of a positive drug test.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:14 am 
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carreramia wrote:
Quote:
If Slater slips down to 18, then I think we have to take him. ...... If there is a run on DE and LB earlier in the round, I don't think we should take just take the best DE/LB available....

My dream would be to trade down to the mid 20s and still get Harris


Don’t risk losing Harris for this overrated, analytics heavy, nonsense of draft value...there are a ton of stories out there of blown chances at a no. 1 because of the player’s so-called pre-draft value. Harris is a player, he can start right away. Give him the ball, tell him to run there and the rest is up to him. A WR has to adapt to the technical hyperbolic of NFL coaches. Can he read the coverage? Is there a blitz where he has to break off the pattern? Can he beat the DB at the LOS? Do we put him in motion? Then, if it all that works out, the QB has to be able to read the defense, is it his no. 1 look, and of course the line has to give him time, can this QB throw the ball over the rushing linemen, and if all that works, maybe, have the guy catch it....I can gurantee that Tua can complete a handoff, not so much a forward pass.

For all the feel good about Grier trading out of 3, he screwed up going from 12 to 6, losing a future no. 1. So, make up for that, trade down from 6, get Harris with the pick you get, top 15 I hope, get Phillips with other 1st rounder, then look for a WR later, there are plenty of them. The guy is likely to warm the bench for awhile anyway, no matter who he is.

Fins have to come out of this draft with Harris. They have nothing back there now. At least they already gave Tua a new toy in Fuller at WR.


I agree with your first paragraph, and that is why we should take a WR first. As you note, running the ball is pretty easy, which is why you shouldn't overdraft at that position. Lesser guys can be found later who can still do it.

Having said that, I'd take Harris at 18, unless there is someone else there who we just can't pass on (LB Parsons or OL Slater are the two guys I'm thinking of). Javonta Williams at 36/50 or Michael Carter at 50 would also be fine.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:26 pm 
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Big Dave wrote:
jgod1 wrote:
This year Phinished is pushing Rhamondre Stevenson. Last year it was Salvon Ahmed.
He's got a pretty good off-the-radar RB feel.


I was thinking the same thing. I just got the Draft Bible and looked him up. Serritella has him 11th with a 5th round grade. Sounds talented.

Image


Draft Bible wrote:
RHAMONDRE STEVENSON | Oklahoma | RB | #29 | Sr | 5116 | 246 | Las Vegas, NV | Centennial | 02.23.98 (23)

Overview: Continuing the trend of talented downhill runners in the Sooners’ backfield, Stevenson is a powerfully built runner who could easily be mistaken as a linebacker on the field. Serving as a part-time ball-carrier in 2019, Stevenson put impressive chunk plays on film, leading to an outstanding eight yards-per-carry average on 64 carries. After returning from suspension in 2020, Stevenson received the bulk of the carries for the first time in his Sooners career. Stevenson is your quintessential power runner who breaks a ton of tackles while creating a significant amount of yardage after contact. When Stevenson is able to break the second level, he has a little more straight-line speed than anticipated. Tight-hipped with limited wiggle, Stevenson has an underwhelming change-of-direction ability, lacking the talent to make players miss on the second level and in space. He also has almost no impact in the passing game, which seriously limits his effectiveness on the next level, fitting him into mostly a niche role. In a perfect world, Stevenson’s physicality may make him a strong candidate for a backfield by committee approach. From there, his development will speak to his long-term fit from a macro level.

Quote of Note: "The most he's helped me out is the reading of the defenses and just knowing what's going to happen before it happens and just instilling that I need to run hard and finish plays every play." — Rhamondre Stevenson on working with Sooners Running Back Coach DeMarco Murray

Background: Name pronounced “ruh-MON-dray.” Raised in Las Vegas, Nevada; earned a kinesiology degree in junior college; human relations major. Played JUCO in 2017-18. Played in 13 of 14 games (suspended one game as junior). Did not qualify due to poor grades in high school. Was suspended for the 2019 bowl game because of a positive drug test.


This assessment is fair, but it misses Stevenson’s balance and agility. He uses that to change direction deceptively in the open field and that coupled with vision and using downfield blocking well leads to big yardage. In Oklahoma’s offense, he is not often tasked as a receiver....but he does have good hands and I can see him taking a wider role if needed. However, we already have receiving weapons out of the backfield. Stevenson has good numbers at OU, but they have several quality backs so he really has not had as many touches as I suspect he would like. The guy is an absolute beast. OU has another future NFL QB now as well, but he is only a redshirt freshman....Spencer Rattler is a interesting pocket passer, but not a dual threat guy as recent OU QB’s have been...he is a clear leader on the field and completed 67.4% of his passes, 29 TD’s to only 7 INT’s and he chipped in 6 rushing TD’s.... also, boy howdy, that Sooner offensive line will be sending some great talent to the NFL!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:07 pm 
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Phinished wrote:
This assessment is fair, but it misses Stevenson’s balance and agility. He uses that to change direction deceptively in the open field and that coupled with vision and using downfield blocking well leads to big yardage. In Oklahoma’s offense, he is not often tasked as a receiver....but he does have good hands and I can see him taking a wider role if needed. However, we already have receiving weapons out of the backfield. Stevenson has good numbers at OU, but they have several quality backs so he really has not had as many touches as I suspect he would like. The guy is an absolute beast.


What would you think of a Stevenson and Carter (from NC) combo? Get Carter with #50 (or trade down slightly) and Stevenson with our #156 (or maybe trade up into the late 4th). Maybe it is trying to thread the needle, but perhaps something like our 50 and 156 to Green Bay for their 62 and 135. Where do you see Stevenson going?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:15 pm 
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carreramia wrote:
Fins have to come out of this draft with Harris. They have nothing back there now. At least they already gave Tua a new toy in Fuller at WR.


I hope I'm wrong, but I have a bad feeling about Fuller. I don't think his strengths match with Tua's strengths and our offense. He is a proven vet, though, and we are only committed to him for a year. Given our injury issues at WR, I understand the signing, and I don't think it was a bad move. I'm just not overly optimistic.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:25 pm 
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prof123 wrote:
Phinished wrote:
This assessment is fair, but it misses Stevenson’s balance and agility. He uses that to change direction deceptively in the open field and that coupled with vision and using downfield blocking well leads to big yardage. In Oklahoma’s offense, he is not often tasked as a receiver....but he does have good hands and I can see him taking a wider role if needed. However, we already have receiving weapons out of the backfield. Stevenson has good numbers at OU, but they have several quality backs so he really has not had as many touches as I suspect he would like. The guy is an absolute beast.


What would you think of a Stevenson and Carter (from NC) combo? Get Carter with #50 (or trade down slightly) and Stevenson with our #156 (or maybe trade up into the late 4th). Maybe it is trying to thread the needle, but perhaps something like our 50 and 156 to Green Bay for their 62 and 135. Where do you see Stevenson going?


I see Stevenson as a 3rd rounder and great value. Carter is interesting as a change of pace guy, but Ahmed already gives you that. I really would love Najee Harris at 18 and Stevenson in the 3rd round. Add that to Devonta Smith and you have a huge upgrade to our skill positions. Imagine a rotation at RB and Smith, Gesicki, Parker and Williams spreading out the D. It would also be awesome to run two back sets of Harris and Stevenson or Either of those two with Ahmed. Split them out and watch defenses go crazy with mismatches.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:31 pm 
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prof123 wrote:
..... Fuller. I don't think his strengths match with Tua's strengths and our offense.


You mean his ability to go get behind the secondary? His ability to run after the catch? Those don't "match" with Tua? Hmmm....what does that say about the QB you defend he's our future?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:42 pm 
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carreramia wrote:
prof123 wrote:
..... Fuller. I don't think his strengths match with Tua's strengths and our offense.


You mean his ability to go get behind the secondary? His ability to run after the catch? Those don't "match" with Tua? Hmmm....what does that say about the QB you defend he's our future?


Tua's strength is not the deep ball. Receivers like Devonta Smith, who run precise routes and rely on timing are better fits. (Despite what I said in other posts, this would be the reason we take Smith at #6.) But, we do need a deep threat to keep the safeties out of the box, so hopefully Tua will improve in this regard. Fuller will give us a chance to find out. If you resurrect the "Silly Long Passing Meter Metric," I'll know we are in trouble!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:34 pm 
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prof123 wrote:

Tua's strength is not the deep ball. Receivers like Devonta Smith, who run precise routes and rely on timing are better fits. (Despite what I said in other posts, this would be the reason we take Smith at #6.) But, we do need a deep threat to keep the safeties out of the box, so hopefully Tua will improve in this regard. Fuller will give us a chance to find out.


Unbelievable. You know this yet to you Tua's worth a long term commitment and continued investment of premium picks, some of which odds say will fail, to help prop him up. You know the league today favors the passing game, right? And we are going forward for untold years with a dink and dunk guy when at 3 Miami could have protected the franchise for that potential failure with QBs that other franchises are willing to pay big for the chance at getting?

But you say "hopefully", so that settles any fears.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:10 pm 
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carreramia wrote:
Unbelievable. You know this yet to you Tua's worth a long term commitment and continued investment of premium picks, some of which odds say will fail, to help prop him up. You know the league today favors the passing game, right? And we are going forward for untold years with a dink and dunk guy when at 3 Miami could have protected the franchise for that potential failure with QBs that other franchises are willing to pay big for the chance at getting?

That's right. Glad you understand. BTW, you still owe me a steak dinner for the last time we bet on something Dolphin's related. We could go double or nothing on Tua, if you want.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:57 am 
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jgod1 wrote:
Be emotionally ready for a similar Dolphins RB draft to last year.

Just saying.


I hope they've learned that they need to escalate the importance of this position rather than trying to get one late in the draft or trading for one who is more of a role player. I would be very shocked if the Dolphins didn't draft one by the end of the 2nd round or early 3rd round. It just depends on the value of where they are. I would jump out of my chair if we drafted Harris or Etienne, but the UNC backs are something else, too, and we are desperate for a DE. What would JJ do? He would probably draft a RB early to get his trifecta (QB, RB, WR). When you think of JJ's Cowboys, you always think of Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin, and Emmitt Smith.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:34 am 
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Phinished wrote:
This assessment is fair, but it misses Stevenson’s balance and agility. He uses that to change direction deceptively in the open field and that coupled with vision and using downfield blocking well leads to big yardage. In Oklahoma’s offense, he is not often tasked as a receiver....but he does have good hands and I can see him taking a wider role if needed. However, we already have receiving weapons out of the backfield. Stevenson has good numbers at OU, but they have several quality backs so he really has not had as many touches as I suspect he would like. The guy is an absolute beast. OU has another future NFL QB now as well, but he is only a redshirt freshman....Spencer Rattler is a interesting pocket passer, but not a dual threat guy as recent OU QB’s have been...he is a clear leader on the field and completed 67.4% of his passes, 29 TD’s to only 7 INT’s and he chipped in 6 rushing TD’s.... also, boy howdy, that Sooner offensive line will be sending some great talent to the NFL!


This "draft board" has him as a 4th round prospect which is good. I do expect us to draft one of the UNC backs as we got to see them in the Senior Bowl.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jAUyqo ... Ni7uc/view

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:49 am 
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prof123 wrote:
BTW, you still owe me a steak dinner for the last time we bet on something Dolphin's related. We could go double or nothing on Tua, if you want.


Even if I actually recalled this so called steak dinner I lost, probably another one of your fantasy views like those on the Dolphins, when you consider the consistent, miserable, mediocrity of the Dolphins during our incarceration in this hamster wheel called Dolphins fanhood, it should be you paying me with lavish dinners and world wide trips to exotic lands because during all this time your misleading and by now totally untrustworthy message of "just wait, this time we are really, really, really gonna do it", I've been telling you, in explicit detail, how it's not gonna happen.

And a look at the standings of the past oh, 25 years, the train wreck drafts, trades, coaching changes, QB merry-go-round, I stand fully validated. But I won't dare collect, you've suffered enough.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:53 am 
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AQNOR wrote:
Another way to improve the running games is to improve the o-line.


I agree, but we have to have a balanced approach. We invested a lot in the OL last year and they need to develop. We MUST get a center in this draft.

And, as Dave Hyde said this morning, "Do great lines translate into Super Bowl runs? Dallas had the best line for years, full of first-round investments, and has two wild-card playoff wins over the past decade to show for it. That’s it."

https://news.yahoo.com/hyde-non-stop-gi ... 00109.html

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:04 am 
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carreramia wrote:
prof123 wrote:
BTW, you still owe me a steak dinner for the last time we bet on something Dolphin's related. We could go double or nothing on Tua, if you want.


Even if I actually recalled this so called steak dinner I lost, probably another one of your fantasy views like those on the Dolphins ...


It was an over/under on the number of Dolphin wins for the 2019 season. You were the pessimist, as usual, and put it at 1.5, as I recall. Is this forum searchable? I'm sure we can find it. I wanted to bet a game ticket, and you balked, and it ended up being food. I suppose I could settle for some burgers and beans on your grill, along with acknowledgment of my predictive prowess.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:35 am 
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Could there be 3 RBs drafted in the first round? I seriously doubt it, but don't be surprised if someone has a first round grade on UNC's Javonte Williams.

NBC Sports Edge wrote:
NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reports North Carolina RB Javonte Williams could be a surprise first round pick in the NFL Draft.

Pelissero cited multiple sources who believe Williams -- not Najee Harris or Travis Etienne -- is the draft's top back. "I love Javonte Williams," a high-ranking AFC executive told Pelissero. "I think he's the best back in the draft." A tough runner with an 89th percentile agility score and a 71st percentile burst score, Williams could be the surprise preference for running back-hungry teams like the Steelers, who have been closely linked to Harris. Williams in 2020 was sixth in the nation with 1,140 rushing yards and third among running backs with 19 touchdowns. His eye-popping 7.3 yards per carry was the highest among all RB prospects in the 2021 draft (though he received far fewer carries than Harris in 2020). Williams makes sense as a best ball value before he's drafted by a team that could instantly make him a three-down back.


https://www.nbcsports.com/edge/football ... e-williams

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:19 am 
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The more I think about it, I think we can't risk having happen this year what happened last year. It would be risky to wait until the second round to get a RB. I think we need to trade down from 18 to the mid 20s and take either Etienne, Williams, or Harris (that is my preferred order, too). Maybe use that extra capital from moving down to move up from 36 and snag one of the better edge rushers.
So, perhaps have picks 25 and 30 instead of 18 and 36, or something like that.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:48 am 
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To me, any one of the top 3 RBs are as close to a sure thing as you can get in the draft to significantly improve our offense. On the other hand, all of the top edge guys have question marks that make me uneasy taking them at 18. I'd rather take the "sure thing" RB at 18 and then take a "2nd tier" Edge guy on day 2, like Carlos Basham. I think he fits our system well.


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