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Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles

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AQNOR 2014 Phinfever VIP! Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:17 am Posts: 3805	Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles Quote: By Brian Biggane Palm Beach Post Staff Writer DAVIE — As much criticism as the Dolphins’ receiving corps has come under this season, former wideout Oronde Gadsden doesn’t see talent as the group’s biggest problem. That, Gadsden said, would be lack of experience. The offseason trade of Brandon Marshall left Brian Hartline, in only his fourth season, and Davone Bess, in his fifth, as the veterans of what proved to be one of the youngest corps in the league, and Gadsden is convinced the unit’s No. 24 ranking through Sunday, at 218.6 receiving yards per game, is a direct result. ... “They would have been OK even if they had kept ‘Ocho’ (Chad Johnson) just for that reason. You need a guy who’s been around the league. When I came in, O.J. had already played New England nine times; he knew what Ty Law or Lawyer Milloy would do in every situation. Hartline is definitely a good receiver, but he hasn’t even played against all the teams in the league yet.” ... Gadsden said he feared the worst when general manager Jeff Ireland failed to find a replacement for Marshall after trading him to Chicago during the offseason. ... “If you thought you might get rid of him, you should have had a backup plan. I don’t think (Ireland) did.” Gadsden said he believed during training camp and the preseason that Matthews might develop more quickly or that free agent Chris Hogan might emerge as another Wes Welker. He said Marlon Moore’s ability on special teams helps make him a valuable asset, but he would like to see the Dolphins pursue a high-end free agent this offseason to complete the mix. “The top free agents are going to be Dwayne Bowe (of Kansas City) and Mike Wallace (of Pittsburgh),” he said. “If I had to pick, I’d take a guy who can take the top off the defense, which is Wallace. ... What we need now is a guy who can take the top off the defense and a veteran the young guys — and that includes Hartline and Bess — can bounce things off on the sidelines. You need that veteran leadership at every position.” http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sport ... for/nTYmq/
Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:02 pm

wkloiber13 Phinfever Legend Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:59 pm Posts: 5117	Re: Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles Experience and..... depth, speed, size, talent. As for Wallace being this "veteran" mentor for Hartline, Bess, and Matthews. What exactly is Wallace going to teach them??? Wallace is fast, that's it. He's not a great route runner. He doesn't have great hands. He's a one trick pony. If anything, Wallace would learn from Hartline and Bess.
Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:39 pm

paydurt 2013 Phinfever VIP Donor Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:19 am Posts: 257 Location: Sherwood Park, Alberta	Re: Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles wkloiber13 wrote: Experience and..... depth, speed, size, talent. As for Wallace being this "veteran" mentor for Hartline, Bess, and Matthews. What exactly is Wallace going to teach them??? Wallace is fast, that's it. He's not a great route runner. He doesn't have great hands. He's a one trick pony. If anything, Wallace would learn from Hartline and Bess. A one trick pony?.. Try a one trick pony thats caught almost three times as many TD passes as all our WR's combined all season!.. Ted Ginn was a one trick pony.. Clyde Gates was a one trick pony.. Mike Wallace?..Not so much I just dont understand you guys that cant see the value in catching TD passes, kinda an important stat......No? In his first four seasons Wallace has caught twice as many TD's as Hartline, Bess and Moore combined and you call him a 'one trick pony?'...WOW!!! Look....I have no idea if this guy is the answer but he sure would be an instant upgrade to what we have!.. we desperatly need a proven speed wide out to keep these safeties honest and draw double coverage to open open up the field to some shallow crossing routes or some big gains in the running game.... Man those 8 TD's would have helped this year!!
Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:36 pm

FrustratedFinFan Phinfever Legend Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:30 am Posts: 2791	Re: Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles Either Wallace or Bowe are huge upgrades. I think Wallace has been helped a whole lot by Roethlisberger's arm strength and ability to extend plays. Bowe is playing for a horrible football team, but he continues to be productive. It would be great if the team could add one of these guys and still draft a top WR prospect in the first round. _________________ Philbin's countenance exudes confidence! 1984 was so long ago...Will there ever be another rainbow?
Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:02 pm

AQNOR 2014 Phinfever VIP! Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:17 am Posts: 3805	Re: Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles wkloiber13 wrote: Experience and..... depth, speed, size, talent. As for Wallace being this "veteran" mentor for Hartline, Bess, and Matthews. What exactly is Wallace going to teach them??? Wallace is fast, that's it. He's not a great route runner. He doesn't have great hands. He's a one trick pony. If anything, Wallace would learn from Hartline and Bess. I did not read it as Wallace being this veteran. I read it as Wallace and a veteran. Two people not one person.
Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:16 pm

wkloiber13 Phinfever Legend Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:59 pm Posts: 5117	Re: Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles AQNOR wrote: wkloiber13 wrote: Experience and..... depth, speed, size, talent. As for Wallace being this "veteran" mentor for Hartline, Bess, and Matthews. What exactly is Wallace going to teach them??? Wallace is fast, that's it. He's not a great route runner. He doesn't have great hands. He's a one trick pony. If anything, Wallace would learn from Hartline and Bess. I did not read it as Wallace being this veteran. I read it as Wallace and a veteran. Two people not one person. Ok, I see what you're saying. The first time I read it I was thinking he was saying that Wallace was that guy. But now I see he was referring to Wallace being the guy who can take the top off the defense and we would then seek out some other veteran that could mentor the group. But I'm not too sure who's out there in free agency that would be that veteran mentor.
Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:58 pm

wkloiber13 Phinfever Legend Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:59 pm Posts: 5117	Re: Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles paydurt wrote: wkloiber13 wrote: Experience and..... depth, speed, size, talent. As for Wallace being this "veteran" mentor for Hartline, Bess, and Matthews. What exactly is Wallace going to teach them??? Wallace is fast, that's it. He's not a great route runner. He doesn't have great hands. He's a one trick pony. If anything, Wallace would learn from Hartline and Bess. A one trick pony?.. Try a one trick pony thats caught almost three times as many TD passes as all our WR's combined all season!.. Ted Ginn was a one trick pony.. Clyde Gates was a one trick pony.. Mike Wallace?..Not so much I just dont understand you guys that cant see the value in catching TD passes, kinda an important stat......No? In his first four seasons Wallace has caught twice as many TD's as Hartline, Bess and Moore combined and you call him a 'one trick pony?'...WOW!!! Look....I have no idea if this guy is the answer but he sure would be an instant upgrade to what we have!.. we desperatly need a proven speed wide out to keep these safeties honest and draw double coverage to open open up the field to some shallow crossing routes or some big gains in the running game.... Man those 8 TD's would have helped this year!! Just because he has touchdowns doesn't mean he's a good route runner with great hands. The guy is the definition of a one trick pony. Heck, Mike Tomlin the Steelers head coach even gave him the nickname one trick pony earlier in his career. He only stopped because it hurt his feelings. Wallace is wildly mediocre in terms of his overall receiver skills. The only elite talent he has is his speed. Even Hartline and Bess have more catches and receiving yards this year than Wallace. I'm sorry but I don't think giving a monster contract to a holdout diva receiver is the right idea. The guy has trouble written all over him. We need to move on and learn our lesson from Marshall and Johnson.
Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:08 am

Big Dave Phinfever Owner/Admin Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:41 am Posts: 9567 Location: Raleigh, NC	Re: Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles Brian Biggane wrote: Gadsden said he feared the worst when general manager Jeff Ireland failed to find a replacement for Marshall after trading him to Chicago during the offseason. I would say this has been his biggest failure this year. He took a big gamble. I suppose you can only fix so many things each year. The Dolphins still have a lot of holes on the offensive side of the ball, but they are plugging them up as fast as the leaks spring up. I give him an A for effort in trying to address the offensive line, but most of those decisions have not panned out. Defensively this team is young and has a lot of upside. Hiring Philben seems to be a good decision, but he is still raw as a head coach. I like the direction the team is headed, so, I would give Ireland at least another year. I think Gadsden is correct about the lack of experience among the WR group, but they still need a playmaker there. _________________ PHINFEVER FACEBOOK - JOIN US!
Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:58 am

Rich Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am Posts: 22066 Location: Miami, FL	Re: Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles wkloiber13 wrote: Wallace is wildly mediocre in terms of his overall receiver skills. Are you unemployed? How do you find time to watch all the Dolphins AND Steelers games? Oh wait, you probably don't... you're just making stuff up. _________________
Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:38 am

Rick Snorton Norton Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:52 pm Posts: 302	Re: Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles Rich wrote: wkloiber13 wrote: Wallace is wildly mediocre in terms of his overall receiver skills. Are you unemployed? How do you find time to watch all the Dolphins AND Steelers games? Oh wait, you probably don't... you're just making stuff up. And Wallace was up for catch of the year for a catch he made during Monday Night Football against the Chiefs just a month ago I believe. When was the last time a Miami receiver made an impressive play during Monday Night Football? our players play worse on Monday or Sunday Night Football. This is an insane conversation to call Wallace mediocre when at least he plays up when a big game is on the line. Our entire team sucks when it's Monday Night football.
Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:13 am

wkloiber13 Phinfever Legend Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:59 pm Posts: 5117	Re: Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles Rich wrote: wkloiber13 wrote: Wallace is wildly mediocre in terms of his overall receiver skills. Are you unemployed? How do you find time to watch all the Dolphins AND Steelers games? Oh wait, you probably don't... you're just making stuff up. Ever heard of a job that you don't have to work Sundays? Ever heard of Sunday Ticket? Ever considered the idea I've got a few buddies who are Steelers fans? Chill out man. Just because I think Wallace isn't a great receiver doesn't mean you need to get all bent out of shape. I agree that he'd fit well in Miami from a physical talent standpoint, but I completely disagree that we should go after him. He's got way too many red flags to be throwing big time $$$ at him. I feel that the Dolphins would be best served to address their receiver issues via the draft. We need to stop wasting our time with diva receivers.
Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:56 pm

Rich Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am Posts: 22066 Location: Miami, FL	Re: Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles wkloiber13 wrote: Ever heard of a job that you don't have to work Sundays? Ever heard of Sunday Ticket? Ever considered the idea I've got a few buddies who are Steelers fans? So what you're saying is you'll listen to fans of a team... you know fans that always think the grass is greener elsewhere. Quote: I agree that he'd fit well in Miami from a physical talent standpoint, but I completely disagree that we should go after him. So he would fit in well, but let's not go after him. Makes sense!!! _________________
Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:50 am

Makchell Phinfever Lead Moderator Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:04 pm Posts: 7282	Re: Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles Does Wallace have red flags (drops, prima donna) yes, but we have to ask, is he an upgrade? Yes, not only will he upgrade our offense, he will also upgrade Hartline and Bess as well. Sign him, we need him.
Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:53 am

wkloiber13 Phinfever Legend Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:59 pm Posts: 5117	Re: Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles Rich wrote: wkloiber13 wrote: Ever heard of a job that you don't have to work Sundays? Ever heard of Sunday Ticket? Ever considered the idea I've got a few buddies who are Steelers fans? So what you're saying is you'll listen to fans of a team... you know fans that always think the grass is greener elsewhere. Quote: I agree that he'd fit well in Miami from a physical talent standpoint, but I completely disagree that we should go after him. So he would fit in well, but let's not go after him. Makes sense!!! Pittsburgh has won multiple Super Bowls the last decade. They have a sure fire Hall of Fame quarterback, and they're consistenly in the playoffs. Where is the grass any greener than Pittsburgh??? As for Wallace. He may be a fit from a skillset standpoint, but not from a personality standpoint he screams diva receiver. He already held out this year for more money. I've read that he wants a Fitzgerald type of contract. While he probably won't get that much, someone will overpay him out of desperation. I simply look at his numbers and don't think he's worth it. We need to stop going after these diva receiver types. They're not worth it. Let someone else make the mistake of overpaying him. I'd rather draft our receivers.
Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:18 pm

wkloiber13 Phinfever Legend Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:59 pm Posts: 5117	Re: Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles Makchell wrote: Does Wallace have red flags (drops, prima donna) yes, but we have to ask, is he an upgrade? Yes, not only will he upgrade our offense, he will also upgrade Hartline and Bess as well. Sign him, we need him. If we were only looking at players in terms of what they can do from an on the field standpoint, Brandon Marshall and Chad Johnson would still be Miami Dolphins. If we sign Wallace it will prove that our team has learned nothing from our mistakes with Marshall and Johnson. If you don't learn from you mistakes you're doomed to repeat them. Wallace would be another mistake. I'd much rather see us draft a pair of wideouts for Tannehill to develop with.
Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:21 pm

Rich Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am Posts: 22066 Location: Miami, FL	Re: Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles wkloiber13 wrote: Makchell wrote: Does Wallace have red flags (drops, prima donna) yes, but we have to ask, is he an upgrade? Yes, not only will he upgrade our offense, he will also upgrade Hartline and Bess as well. Sign him, we need him. If we were only looking at players in terms of what they can do from an on the field standpoint, Brandon Marshall and Chad Johnson would still be Miami Dolphins. If we sign Wallace it will prove that our team has learned nothing from our mistakes with Marshall and Johnson. If you don't learn from you mistakes you're doomed to repeat them. Wallace would be another mistake. I'd much rather see us draft a pair of wideouts for Tannehill to develop with. I'm sorry but I don't see the comparisons to Marshall and Johnson. Marshall has been in trouble on and off the field his entire career and Johnson has always been a clown and recently also saw off the field issues. Wallace's biggest character concern is wanting more money... _________________
Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:34 am

Makchell Phinfever Lead Moderator Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:04 pm Posts: 7282	Re: Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles If we were only looking at players in terms of what they can do from an on the field standpoint, Brandon Marshall and Chad Johnson would still be Miami Dolphins. If we sign Wallace it will prove that our team has learned nothing from our mistakes with Marshall and Johnson. If you don't learn from you mistakes you're doomed to repeat them. Wallace would be another mistake. I'd much rather see us draft a pair of wideouts for Tannehill to develop with. Marshall is a punk and Johnson just flat out sucks. Wallace has never been in trouble and he wanted to get paid. Brown got paid and I think Wallace is better than Brown and he's in his prime.
Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:48 am

jammer 2013 Phinfever VIP Donor Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:10 pm Posts: 6383 Location: Topsfield, MA	Re: Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles I know we all talk as though its almost a sure thing that Wallace or Bowe or an FA upgrade is coming but just remember that 31 other teams can make offers. Miami isn't exactly a sure bet for winning and I don't know if the front office is willing to pony up for FAs. I have a feeling its either the draft or via trade where they'll get the "upgrade".
Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:30 am

jammer 2013 Phinfever VIP Donor Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:10 pm Posts: 6383 Location: Topsfield, MA	Re: Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles Just to add to my previous post, I can see Miami packaging up picks to jump up and grab a guy (Keenan Allen?) if he slips or they target him from the get go. Would anyone be surprised if they went after a year contract type vet receiver and combine that with a high draft pick? I wouldn't at all. After more thought from Rich's GM post, I can see them going hard after Dustin Keller and overspending. He and Fasano would make a nice tandem for two TE sets.
Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:09 am

Dphins4me 2014 Survival Champ Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:23 pm Posts: 4952	Re: Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles jammer wrote: Just to add to my previous post, I can see Miami packaging up picks to jump up and grab a guy (Keenan Allen?) if he slips or they target him from the get go. Miami should be drafting in the perfect spot to get one of the top Wr. jammer wrote: After more thought from Rich's GM post, I can see them going hard after Dustin Keller and overspending. He and Fasano would make a nice tandem for two TE sets. Keller needs out of NY & into an O that can use him. Don't see Miami keeping Fasano if they go after another FA TE like Keller.
Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:02 am

wkloiber13 Phinfever Legend Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:59 pm Posts: 5117	Re: Ex-Dolphin: Lack of experience top reason for WR struggles Rich wrote: wkloiber13 wrote: Makchell wrote: Does Wallace have red flags (drops, prima donna) yes, but we have to ask, is he an upgrade? Yes, not only will he upgrade our offense, he will also upgrade Hartline and Bess as well. Sign him, we need him. If we were only looking at players in terms of what they can do from an on the field standpoint, Brandon Marshall and Chad Johnson would still be Miami Dolphins. If we sign Wallace it will prove that our team has learned nothing from our mistakes with Marshall and Johnson. If you don't learn from you mistakes you're doomed to repeat them. Wallace would be another mistake. I'd much rather see us draft a pair of wideouts for Tannehill to develop with. I'm sorry but I don't see the comparisons to Marshall and Johnson. Marshall has been in trouble on and off the field his entire career and Johnson has always been a clown and recently also saw off the field issues. Wallace's biggest character concern is wanting more money... Quote: Wallace may be the fastest receiver in the league but he is only great for one route, go long and outrun the defender. Wallace is able to do a 10-yard slant route as well but he can only catch it if it is high. Quote: When it comes to learning new routes, Wallace looks like the four-year-old trying to ride a bike for the first time Quote: It seems to me that Wallace is so set in his ways, and you don’t get paid the big bucks just because you can run one route http://cityofchampionssports.com/2012/11/19/heres-a-solution-mike-wallace-catch-the-ball/ I think you see highlights on ESPN and get giddy at the idea of Miami having a big playmaker. But I think you fail to see the holes in this guys game (he has many). For the kind of money it will take to get Wallace in a Dolphins uniform, it's simply not worth it.
Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:45 pm

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