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 Jonathan Martin 
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin
degs wrote:
wkloiber13 wrote:
Here's the thing though. Widereceiver isn't our only major need. If Long goes, then offensive tackle becomes a big priority. Not only that, but we still have major needs in our defensive secondary. If the right wideout isn't there, maybe the right offensive tackle or defensive back is there.


Filling these needs are interconnected, including not just the draft, but with free agency as well.

However, dealing with just the draft...

I would prioritize WR as the most important need. But if there aren't any top flight WR's in the draft, then yes, move on to BPA at another area of need. Personally, I prioritze having a terrifying pass rush over having shut down corners.

With the top picks I would be looking to grab a WR, a tackle, a pass rusher and some help in the secondary. With later picks I would be looking for development players, specifically a QB. I would say a WR, but Ireland hasn't exactly done well with late round QB's.


I think our staff wants to see Vernon develop before they spend a high pick on a pass rusher. He's having a decent rookie campaign coming off the bench on 3rd down. We've also got Koa Misi who's quietly having a good year (best of his short career).

I think the pass rush is fine. We're currently ranked 6th in the NFL in sacks with 33. We're 7th overall in forced fumbles at 15. So in my opinion, the pass rush is good in Miami.

Where we're lacking is in our pass coverage. We're 21st in the league in interceptions with 9. We're tied for 11th in passes defended with 59. But we're also giving up around 300 yards a game through the air.

Another area we need to improve is in recovering fumbles. I know a lot of this is luck, but we're tied for 29th with only three all year. Even though we're 7th in causing fumbles, we're only 29th in recovering them.


Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:29 pm
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin
Rock Sexton wrote:
Makchell wrote:
I consider o-line

I believe a great QB makes the OL better ditto with RB. Just my opinion. Look at the Pats, they have a patch work line yet they are playing for the #1 seed right now, ditto with GB. WHen has an OL won a SB? Never....Long didn't. Everything, EVERYTHING starts with a QB.


Football Outsiders has a great update in regards to O-line statistics this year ...

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

If you listen to some fans, you'd think we were at the bottom of the league in pass pro, when it's simply not the case.


We may not be at the bottom, but we're nowhere near the top. No matter how you look at it our pass protection and our run blocking is mediocre as heck. In my eyes that means it's not up to par.

These kinds of stats are also misleading because they don't take into consideration how long the protection holds up, it only looks at the statistical result (ie. sacks/sack %). It doesn't cover things like hurries and knockdowns. Some quarterbacks might be taking pressure sacks even though they have plenty of time in the pocket while others might be getting hit before they even set their feet because someone missed their assignment. In other words, Tannehill could be getting the crap knocked out of him all game long but as long as he gets the ball out their quick enough it makes our offensive line look great when they clearly aren't.


Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:46 pm
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin
Rock Sexton wrote:
Makchell wrote:
I consider o-line

I believe a great QB makes the OL better ditto with RB. Just my opinion. Look at the Pats, they have a patch work line yet they are playing for the #1 seed right now, ditto with GB. WHen has an OL won a SB? Never....Long didn't. Everything, EVERYTHING starts with a QB.


Football Outsiders has a great update in regards to O-line statistics this year ...

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

If you listen to some fans, you'd think we were at the bottom of the league in pass pro, when it's simply not the case.


This site is simply looking at sacks. There is more to pass protection than sacks given up, especially when you consider the Dolphins try to use a lot of 3 and 5 step drops to avoid sacks.

I'll point again to Omar's breakdown of 3rd downs against the Patriots. There is more empirical evidence there, not to mention what those of us that actually SEE the game see, to know that our pass protection is not where it needs to be.

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Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:38 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin
wkloiber13 wrote:
I get what you're saying, but if the right guy is there (even if he's a lineman), and he grades out the highest on your evaluation, then you pick the guy. Take the guy you like and think will best fit your system, don't reach based on need.


I believe you go for the best avaailable player at a position of need. It doesn't help to take a CB with your first pick when you have 2 pro bowl corners and needs everywhere else. All you wind up with is a disappointed guy who could at best be a nickel corner and unaddressed needed everywhere else.


Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:21 pm
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin
I believe you go for the best avaailable player at a position of need. It doesn't help to take a CB with your first pick when you have 2 pro bowl corners and needs everywhere else. All you wind up with is a disappointed guy who could at best be a nickel corner and unaddressed needed everywhere else.


Or when Drew Brees is sitting there waiting to be picked, you pick a zone corner when you play man. Brilliant.


Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:09 pm
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin
Makchell wrote:
I believe you go for the best avaailable player at a position of need. It doesn't help to take a CB with your first pick when you have 2 pro bowl corners and needs everywhere else. All you wind up with is a disappointed guy who could at best be a nickel corner and unaddressed needed everywhere else.


Or when Drew Brees is sitting there waiting to be picked, you pick a zone corner when you play man. Brilliant.
Or when you could use a really good corner, but take a punt returner and his family.

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Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:08 pm
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin
Rich wrote:
wkloiber13 wrote:
One or both of these guys are likely going to enter the draft this year. They're both graded out as 1st round prospects. Both guys know Sherman, Tannehill, and the offense very well. If Martin plays well, and both of these kids declare, then I think this is an easy decision.


So with all the lack of playmakers on offense and on the back-end of the defense, you think drafting a tackle in round 1 is the right way to go?

Baffling...



i just don't think Ireland can afford to draft "another" linemen in the 1st round. It's going to be a playmaker, be it a Wide Receiver like Keenan Allen or a quarterback killer like Bjoern Werner.


Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:05 pm
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin
There's no WR worth taking in the top 15. Not even close, to be honest.

At this point only a DE really makes sense to me.


almost all the experts have Keenan Allen in the top 15 overall picks. After him it's a real dropoff at receiver.

here's a look at Allen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhdVSwSPIoc


Last edited by swerve13 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:07 pm
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin
swerve13 wrote:
Rich wrote:
wkloiber13 wrote:
One or both of these guys are likely going to enter the draft this year. They're both graded out as 1st round prospects. Both guys know Sherman, Tannehill, and the offense very well. If Martin plays well, and both of these kids declare, then I think this is an easy decision.


So with all the lack of playmakers on offense and on the back-end of the defense, you think drafting a tackle in round 1 is the right way to go?

Baffling...



i just don't think Ireland can afford to draft "another" linemen in the 1st round. It's going to be a playmaker, be it a Wide Receiver like Keenan Allen or a quarterback killer like Bjoern Werner.


Ireland ant and won't use a 1st round pick on a QB. It would mean that he has zero faith in Tannehill, his own pick from last year. Just won't hsppen


Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:18 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin
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i just don't think Ireland can afford to draft "another" linemen in the 1st round. It's going to be a playmaker, be it a Wide Receiver like Keenan Allen or a quarterback killer like Bjoern Werner.


Ireland ant and won't use a 1st round pick on a QB. It would mean that he has zero faith in Tannehill, his own pick from last year. Just won't hsppen

I said 'quarterback killer' , Werner is a defensive end.


Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:03 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin
swerve13 wrote:
Quote:
i just don't think Ireland can afford to draft "another" linemen in the 1st round. It's going to be a playmaker, be it a Wide Receiver like Keenan Allen or a quarterback killer like Bjoern Werner.


Ireland ant and won't use a 1st round pick on a QB. It would mean that he has zero faith in Tannehill, his own pick from last year. Just won't hsppen

I said 'quarterback killer' , Werner is a defensive end.


My bad. And my apologies.


Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:27 pm
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin
Martin has gotten pushed back on bull rushes at least twice already, one leading to a Tannehill sack.

This guy is not ready to step in for Long.

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Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:38 pm
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin
...And this is why I didn't like the Martin pick.


Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:03 pm
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin
Rich wrote:
Martin has gotten pushed back on bull rushes at least twice already, one leading to a Tannehill sack.

This guy is not ready to step in for Long.


He's a rookie and he got beat twice by arguably the best pass rusher in the NFL in his first game at left tackle. Besides those two plays, he looked pretty good against Smith the majority of the day. He contained him and prevented him from taking over the game. I can remember several times where Smith was frustrated and was shoving Martin. Martin got right back in his face and didn't back down. Do you like to see the sacks, no, but overall I wasn't too upset with the way Martin played today. I can recall far less skilled defensive linemen getting the better of Long this year. Let's be patient and see how the rest of the season goes.


Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:30 pm
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin
wkloiber13 wrote:
He's a rookie and he got beat twice by arguably the best pass rusher in the NFL in his first game at left tackle.


And in the process, did nothing to demonstrate he was ready to take over the role.

Quote:
Besides those two plays, he looked pretty good against Smith the majority of the day.


No, he was not. I posted that post at the beginning of the 2nd quarter. Throughout the game, he had trouble blocking Smith, especially on critical third down plays. He got blown up several times during the game and also got beat by Justin Smith a couple of times.

Quote:
but overall I wasn't too upset with the way Martin played today.


Of course you're not. You've already convinced yourself that he is the future at left tackle and will now argue that til the bitter end. I can see several long threads between you and Rock arguing back and forth about Martin after he gives up 5 sacks in a game...

Quote:
I can recall far less skilled defensive linemen getting the better of Long this year.


Yeah on a play here or a play there, not throughout the entire frickin game.

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Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:33 am
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