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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:22 am 
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By Omar Kelly

Sun Sentinel

10:47 a.m. EDT, September 17, 2012
The Miami Dolphins found themselves in a pinch early on in Sunday's 35-13 win over the Oakland Raiders.

Sean Smith was playing with a hip injury he suffered when he got speared in the first half, and Richard Marshall was pulled from the game in the second quarter because of a back injury.

...

That means approximately 217 of Palmer's 373 pass yards were on Miami's linebackers and safeties. Ouch!

...


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miam ... 7258.story


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:31 am 
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Now that we know this team is going to be competitive.....the Vontae trade is looking worse and worse


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:34 am 
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BTW did anyone see Oaklands TE just abuse Dansby on that one stiff arm.....I don't think I've ever seen that done to a LB


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:36 am 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
BTW did anyone see Oaklands TE just abuse Dansby on that one stiff arm.....I don't think I've ever seen that done to a LB


I thought it was Burnett who got owned... doesn't really matter, it was embarrassing lol


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:38 am 
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Announcer on NFL.coms replays said Dansby....but the number was buried in the dirt so I couldn't tell


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:54 am 
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We'll have to wait and see what happens throughout the week. Playing through injuries is part of the game. Smith and Marshall will hopefully be healthy enough to start again next week. If one of them cannot play then someone else will have to step up like Nolan Carrol or Jimmy Wilson. It sucks, but it's part of the game.

As far as the Davis trade is concerned, I still feel it was the correct move. We traded him because he wasn't living up to his expectations and he wasn't fitting into our new staff's mold. Getting a 2nd and 6th was our way of moving on and starting fresh. Next year we'll be able to add a pair of players to the defensive secondary with all of the high draft picks we have.

Does it look like a bad move now, to a certain degree yes. We'd love to have a solid veteran with his attributes right now at the nickel. But at the same time if our defensive secondary continues to improve, especially the younger guys, then I think we'll be alright. We added a couple of young guys with some starting experience so we'll have to see what they can do if we're forced to sit one or both of our starters.

I think our biggest concern is the safety position. Chris Clemons isn't playing well and he is constantly leaving our corners out to dry on big passing plays. He's misreading plays a lot. Reshad Jones by comparison is looking much better.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:12 am 
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When Jimmy Wilson is the one out there making plays, tis a sad sad day...


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:14 am 
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Ski_Money wrote:
When Jimmy Wilson is the one out there making plays, tis a sad sad day...


I don't care who makes the plays, so long as they're getting made. One player goes down, it's another man's turn to step up. That's the way of the NFL. You're always a play away.

Meanwhile, I haven't read anything that says Smith and Marshall are going to miss any games yet. So the way I see it we can rest them most of this week, and get them healthy so that they can play well against the Jets.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:19 am 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
Now that we know this team is going to be competitive.....the Vontae trade is looking worse and worse



oh stop already


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:44 am 
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swerve13 wrote:
NFLJunkie wrote:
Now that we know this team is going to be competitive.....the Vontae trade is looking worse and worse



oh stop already

I would, but its way too much fun...

This will be an issue all season if the CBs suffer injuries or play poorly. Just the nature of the beast. You can agree with the trade all you want and make up a million and 1 reasons why Vontae should've been traded. Can't argue with your allegiance.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:45 am 
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swerve13 wrote:
NFLJunkie wrote:
Now that we know this team is going to be competitive.....the Vontae trade is looking worse and worse



oh stop already

I would, but its way too much fun...

This will be an issue all season if the CBs suffer injuries or play poorly. Just the nature of the beast. You can agree with the trade all you want and make up a million and 1 reasons why Vontae should've been traded. Can't argue with your allegiance.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:31 am 
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There are definitely some serviceable Corners available too... not sure why we don't bring one or two in...

Will Blackmon
Philip Buchanon
Domonique Foxworth

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/fa?positionId=29


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:03 pm 
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BTW...watching the game, Sean Smith gave up over 100yds passing in the first half alone. Carroll was the CB blocked on that RB screen when they ran right by him. No one ran to Vontaes side of the field. Our CB's are worse and its becaause of the meglomaniac Ireland. Sorry, go review the first half....Smith even had a ball fall behind him he was so unaware of what was going on.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:32 pm 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
BTW...watching the game, Sean Smith gave up over 100yds passing in the first half alone. Carroll was the CB blocked on that RB screen when they ran right by him. No one ran to Vontaes side of the field. Our CB's are worse and its becaause of the meglomaniac Ireland. Sorry, go review the first half....Smith even had a ball fall behind him he was so unaware of what was going on.




Holy Cow. I don't think Big Dave gives out the Whiner of the Week Award when the Fins win. Give it a rest until we lose.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:46 pm 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
Now that we know this team is going to be competitive.....the Vontae trade is looking worse and worse


Dude, please tell me that was sarcasm. lol.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:52 pm 
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That's it, don't like the message why bother opening a fact filled debate...just insult the messenger. LOL. So I take it from the last two posts...you think we're better off without our best CB from the last 3 years?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:54 pm 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
That's it, don't like the message why bother opening a fact filled debate...just insult the messenger. LOL. So I take it from the last two posts...you think we're better off without our best CB from the last 3 years?


I wasn't talking about the Davis part Junkie....You know that;).


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:59 pm 
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Mindtornado wrote:
NFLJunkie wrote:
BTW...watching the game, Sean Smith gave up over 100yds passing in the first half alone. Carroll was the CB blocked on that RB screen when they ran right by him. No one ran to Vontaes side of the field. Our CB's are worse and its becaause of the meglomaniac Ireland. Sorry, go review the first half....Smith even had a ball fall behind him he was so unaware of what was going on.




Holy Cow. I don't think Big Dave gives out the Whiner of the Week Award when the Fins win. Give it a rest until we lose.


Um, we've lost a game this season :/

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:48 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
NFLJunkie wrote:
That's it, don't like the message why bother opening a fact filled debate...just insult the messenger. LOL. So I take it from the last two posts...you think we're better off without our best CB from the last 3 years?


I wasn't talking about the Davis part Junkie....You know that;).


I've maintained all along that this team can win 10 games. I wasn't so confident as we moved from Garrard - Moore - to Tannehill. However, after seeing two games this season, RT is good enough to manage a game and make enough key plays to get there. After watching the game today, he picked up several key plays:
Q3 - Raiders had been sitting on the run on first down since early in Q2. Miami delighted them by running on first down, usually losing yardage on those series. In order to get the Raiders to back off in Q3...RT had to complete several throws on first down. Once that happened, the rout was on.
Q4 - around the 12 min mark, 3rd and 5. Raiders had just made it 21-13 by kicking a FG. RT completed a big throw on 3rd down to keep the drive alive (roll out). They went on to score.

IF they keep calling plays that are his strength and not putting him in impossible situations early, they have a shot. In case no one's noticed...they can run the ball.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:02 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:09 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:20 pm 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
NFLJunkie wrote:
That's it, don't like the message why bother opening a fact filled debate...just insult the messenger. LOL. So I take it from the last two posts...you think we're better off without our best CB from the last 3 years?


I wasn't talking about the Davis part Junkie....You know that;).


I've maintained all along that this team can win 10 games. I wasn't so confident as we moved from Garrard - Moore - to Tannehill. However, after seeing two games this season, RT is good enough to manage a game and make enough key plays to get there. After watching the game today, he picked up several key plays:
Q3 - Raiders had been sitting on the run on first down since early in Q2. Miami delighted them by running on first down, usually losing yardage on those series. In order to get the Raiders to back off in Q3...RT had to complete several throws on first down. Once that happened, the rout was on.
Q4 - around the 12 min mark, 3rd and 5. Raiders had just made it 21-13 by kicking a FG. RT completed a big throw on 3rd down to keep the drive alive (roll out). They went on to score.

IF they keep calling plays that are his strength and not putting him in impossible situations early, they have a shot. In case no one's noticed...they can run the ball.


This team is going to be deadly if they can run the football effectively. Utilizing our great backfield will free up playaction and help out Tannehill a ton. Tannehill is a smart accurate young quarterback, if we give him a little help he'll run with it and put up a lot of points. When we have a balanced attack and we don't turn the football over, we're going to be a tough team to beat.

I still maintain that we could have won the first game had it not been for turnovers. The Texans are a good team, but it was turnovers that handed them the win. If you take away those turnovers I think it would have been a very close game.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:49 am 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
BTW...watching the game, Sean Smith gave up over 100yds passing in the first half alone. Carroll was the CB blocked on that RB screen when they ran right by him. No one ran to Vontaes side of the field. Our CB's are worse and its becaause of the meglomaniac Ireland. Sorry, go review the first half....Smith even had a ball fall behind him he was so unaware of what was going on.



in my mind, Vontae would have been right there giving up the yardage along with Smith and Marshall and Carroll. This guy was never a shut down corner by any means, so I don't care that he's gone. Secondary sucked with him and still sucks without him. Pressure the quarterback every week and that weakness will be masked.

actually in hindsight we should have went after Cortland Finnegan. Now thats a playmaking d-back.
If you watch him he's always effecting the game and he rattles the crap out of receivers.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:50 am 
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Of course it is easy to second guess coaches and the General Manager if injuries start happening @ cornerback.

I like the direction that Philbin is looking to take this team, now whether he gets there or not obviously remains in question.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:31 am 
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in my mind, Vontae would have been right there giving up the yardage along with Smith and Marshall and Carroll. This guy was never a shut down corner by any means, so I don't care that he's gone. Secondary sucked with him and still sucks without him. Pressure the quarterback every week and that weakness will be masked.


Of course he's garbage, he's no longer a Dolphin. No one, not even Brady, threw with any consistency on Vontae...sorry...just didn't happen. No one certainly ran by him for 65yds while some 3rd WR was blocking him. So while you can justify in your mind the trade, most objective fans think this is just another Ireland Ego trip to nowhere.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:44 am 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
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in my mind, Vontae would have been right there giving up the yardage along with Smith and Marshall and Carroll. This guy was never a shut down corner by any means, so I don't care that he's gone. Secondary sucked with him and still sucks without him. Pressure the quarterback every week and that weakness will be masked.


Of course he's garbage, he's no longer a Dolphin. No one, not even Brady, threw with any consistency on Vontae...sorry...just didn't happen. No one certainly ran by him for 65yds while some 3rd WR was blocking him. So while you can justify in your mind the trade, most objective fans think this is just another Ireland Ego trip to nowhere.


Right because the side that shares one opinion is obviously objective while the other obviously has no idea what they're talking about.

Please show me an objective fan.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:54 am 
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If you stick with simple facts, and leave emotion out of it, the Vontae Davis situation becomes clear.

He was close to a shutdown corner. Teams picked on S. Smith far more often and burned him deep on quite a few occaions. Vontae gave up a few plays but made his share of INTs. Teams realized they couldn't just keep throwing on him. He was also a beast on run support. We all know the story of Sean Smith. He tries to hand tackle people. More than a few times you see him dodge to avoid collision. Vontae usually set the edge as well as any CB in the NFL.
He lost his job because he wasn't a practice warrior or preseason guy. By that logic..they should've sent Koa Misi packing. Fortunately no one callled Ireland and offered a 4th rounder for him. Misi has been stellar the first two weeks.
His departure has left Miami "thin" at CB. This isn't my statement. This is major news outlets. Marshall comes back this week but if either he, or Sean Smith, go down to injury for the year, this secondary is in trouble.
Miami got a 2nd rounder and a 6th rounder for him. We saw that Miami let go a playmaker in Brandon Marshall...yeah it was probably mutual, but nonetheless Miami got 2 players in that deal. Neither player is making major contributions. So confidence that they can find a guy of Vontae's caliber to replace him in the draft...well lets just say the past track record in the 2nd round is miserable. You can't trade proven veterans for a lottery ticket..and that is just what Ireland did.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:02 am 
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He was never a shutdown corner. People started trying to argue that because QBs went after Smith but that was more to do with Smith having technique and maturity issues on the field. Davis gave up his share of plays when attacked.

I can agree to a point that the secondary was weakened by the deal but lets not pretend they traded away Revis.

Ireland got more for Davis in a deal then by letting him walk and picking up a comp pick. He and Philbin (and probably Coyle) felt they could do just as well with what they have. Based on the results so far this season, if we're talking stats and facts, they were correct. Davis has done squat in his first two games for Indy.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:03 am 
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AdamHBeasley Last @pff factoid: There are 96 corners that have played at least 25 percent of their team's snaps. Vontae Davis is currently ranked 93rd.


https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_ ... amHBeasley


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:04 am 
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He was never a shutdown corner. People started trying to argue that because QBs went after Smith but that was more to do with Smith having technique and maturity issues on the field. Davis gave up his share of plays when attacked.

I can agree to a point that the secondary was weakened by the deal but lets not pretend they traded away Revis.

Ireland got more for Davis in a deal then by letting him walk and picking up a comp pick. He and Philbin (and probably Coyle) felt they could do just as well with what they have. Based on the results so far this season, if we're talking stats and facts, they were correct. Davis has done squat in his first two games for Indy.

No one suggested he was Revis. However, there is no question he was Miami's best CB since he was named starter. I like how you state he gave up his share of plays. That is a revisionist lie. In the defensive backfield in Miami since he has been the starter, QB's routinely have had to pick on LBs, Safeties and the nickleback. Smith gave up twice the amount of plays than Davis...yet Smith is a good CB. So let's not paint this as a super move by Ireland. This was the worst move of the year.
BTW he has 12 tackles in Indy since joining. I haven't watched the Indy games but I heard he has one PI. But that is irrelevant. He was a solid guy while here.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:06 am 
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AQNOR wrote:
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AdamHBeasley Last @pff factoid: There are 96 corners that have played at least 25 percent of their team's snaps. Vontae Davis is currently ranked 93rd.


https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_ ... amHBeasley


Yeap..this year he gets traded to a new team, new defense, new scheme and he's ranked low. How about the last 3 years?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:29 am 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
No one suggested he was Revis. However, there is no question he was Miami's best CB since he was named starter. I like how you state he gave up his share of plays. That is a revisionist lie. In the defensive backfield in Miami since he has been the starter, QB's routinely have had to pick on LBs, Safeties and the nickleback. Smith gave up twice the amount of plays than Davis...yet Smith is a good CB. So let's not paint this as a super move by Ireland. This was the worst move of the year.
BTW he has 12 tackles in Indy since joining. I haven't watched the Indy games but I heard he has one PI. But that is irrelevant. He was a solid guy while here.


Ah, the old putting words in my mouth reply.

I never said he wasn't Miami's best corner prior to this preseason. I agree with that. But being the best of a mediocre bunch doesn't equate to a bonafide shutdown corner. And I agree he has the ability, but he doesn't have the consistency. Did you ever consider that Miami's safeties and linebackers were so weak in coverage that maybe that is why they got picked on and not simply Davis shutting down his receiver? Davis didn't always line up against the number 1 WR either. So calm down there hondo, there all multiple reasons for the result.

Since he got to Indy he has 12 tackles...at least two PI's and was burned by rookie Ashlon Jeffrey for a TD. He's been a bit irrelevant but I attribute a portion of that to being in a new system. BTW, since you want to cite major new outlets you should point out that several of them also said Ireland got more than Davis was worth - see Omar Kelly, Armando Salguero, Peter King, etc.

As of right now I think the trade was worth it. If he becomes elite and Miami gets consistently torched then I'll regret it. If the pick is spent on a dud I'll regret it even more. If we are taking emotion out of this then I'm not sure how you can judge the trade at this point and call yourself objective.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:48 am 
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Ah, the old putting words in my mouth reply.
Tit for tat...you are the one who opened that up by mentioning Revis above.

BTW, why does he have to be "elite" for you to regret the trade. I'm not sure this team has one single "elite" player on the roster. Personally if we keep sending talented players elsewhere, we'll always be one or two guys short of a deep playoff run.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:48 am 
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AQNOR wrote:
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AdamHBeasley Last @pff factoid: There are 96 corners that have played at least 25 percent of their team's snaps. Vontae Davis is currently ranked 93rd.


https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_ ... amHBeasley


Damnit Vontae! Why aren't you ranked No.1 after being traded to a new team right before the start of the new season?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:50 am 
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Does anyone have acces to PFF or other ranking system for D-backs for the last few years?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:58 am 
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Just my viewpoint but value is more than what a player is worth in draft picks. I'm not questioning whether Ireland got "draft value" out of Davis. With that said, there's team needs that also have to be taken into account. So maybe Ireland isn't at fault, but someone is. You can't just go from a position of strength to weakness and then stick your head in the sand when someone's camp cut is now your starting CB. When Marshall went out, there was one play where Jimmy Smith, Nolan Carroll and some dude that was picked up in August were on the field at the same time. Sean Smith went out for a play with a rib contusion. The bottom line is deep and talented teams end up in the playoffs. Not teams "thin" in critical areas.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:26 am 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
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Ah, the old putting words in my mouth reply.
Tit for tat...you are the one who opened that up by mentioning Revis above.

BTW, why does he have to be "elite" for you to regret the trade. I'm not sure this team has one single "elite" player on the roster. Personally if we keep sending talented players elsewhere, we'll always be one or two guys short of a deep playoff run.


Revis was my example of a shutdown corner, not putting words in your mouth.

Trades are all about the risk. Its possible Miami can find as good or better with an early 2nd rounder so I don't regret them taking the chance. If Davis somehow becomes a top corner then I'll look back and regret the trade.

Davis didn't seem to be an irreplaceable piece, even if he was talented. Like it or not, attitude is part of how teams succeed. If guys like Davis, Marshall and Johnson brought bad attitudes and maybe work habits (in Davis' case) then it might be for the best to part ways. Based on what we saw in TC and the preseason I'm just not sure he was going to make that much of a difference this year. If that is the case then Ireland made the right move to get something for him while he still could.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:44 am 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
That's it, don't like the message why bother opening a fact filled debate...just insult the messenger. LOL. So I take it from the last two posts...you think we're better off without our best CB from the last 3 years?

Because your entire point for posting is just to be contrary and stir the pot. Now that Tanny played well, you've been pretty tight lipped. So with that you have to find something else to stir up. You thrive on drama, like an emotional diarrhea.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:51 am 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
AQNOR wrote:
Quote:
AdamHBeasley Last @pff factoid: There are 96 corners that have played at least 25 percent of their team's snaps. Vontae Davis is currently ranked 93rd.


https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_ ... amHBeasley


Damnit Vontae! Why aren't you ranked No.1 after being traded to a new team right before the start of the new season?



lol that there is funny what in that post even hints he should be #1?

It is information.

It is only 2 games so trying to draw final conclusions would be premature imo.

I admit I did not expect him to be 93 out of 96 even with a short sample.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:05 pm 
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AQNOR wrote:
It is only 2 games so trying to draw final conclusions would be premature imo.


Well that's what I was getting at.

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