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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
oh ya Rock in regards to what bad stuff has Davis done??? I forget that he showed up at practice last year smelling of booze which caused Marshall to call him out and started a fight about it. So don't tell me the guy has no baggage.


You're right. I remember that one incident ......one which he responded very well to after the fact.

The two situations we have now discussed have not jeopardized the team. They are maturity issues with a guy who's a young 24 year old.

The other thing that pisses me off is why wait to trade him AFTER the whole world has seen what a jackwad you made him out to be on Hard Knocks? Talk about horrible timing and losing value.



but we got great value


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:36 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
Ireland is actually improving IMO. We just got prob a top 35 pick for a backup CB, and the 3 biggest babies on the team are now gone. They werent helping us reach the playoffs anyways so those crying about talent, cry elsewhere.

People need to understand, Ireland did his job. Coyle and Philbin deemed Davis excess so Ireland got full value.

If I remember right, we had a lot of family guys on that 2007 team. ... and wow...way to spin Vontae into a backup. The minute he loses that Dolphin Jersey he is crap. LOL.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:37 pm 
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Finsfreak wrote:
As much as I liked Vontae, he didn't seem to really take his position seriously. I know this is gonna be a up & down year, and I'm debating doing the $unday Ticket again this year. Ive been a die hard fins fan since early 70's so I will pay the money and weep as we take our share of growing pains. :cry:



it's alright buddy, this will all gradually get better. I'm still pumped for the season.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:37 pm 
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I am shocked. Davis is a solid corner with work ethic problems.

Unless Ireland tried to negotiate an extension and his side was off the charts I do not understand the trade.

But being he is in a contract year, it was now or never to get something in return aside from a supp pic...
Would rather have him out there than the scab that Ryan was lighting up Fri night...

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Last edited by 10acjed on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:38 pm 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
If I remember right, we had a lot of family guys on that 2007 team. ... and wow...way to spin Vontae into a backup. The minute he loses that Dolphin Jersey he is crap. LOL.


I know right ... LOL

Too bad his own secondary coach could be heard saying how good he thought VD could be on Hard Knocks.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:39 pm 
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TheBigFish wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
we have 2 picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds next year. New England gets applause for moves like this.
Many times from guys right on this site.


I knew you were gonna say that.

NE is a winning organization. We are not. They jettison players because they have talent around the rest of the team to overcome it, not to mention they know other players can be brought in to replace ...... because who wouldn't want to go play for an organization like that? They often move players at the turn of their career, not while they're young and getting closer to their prime.


Not to mention that NE drafts extremely well, which we do not.



That's actually not true, New England misses as much if not more than we do. They just have Tom Brady. I can think of about 6 busted picks in their secondary alone in the past 5 years.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:39 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
but we got great value


Talent on the field wins football games ..... not "value". Which coincidentally is why we're also in a pickle with our putrid WR core.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:40 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
That's actually not true, New England misses as much if not more than we do. They just have Tom Brady. I can think of about 6 busted picks in their secondary alone in the past 5 years.


As I said, they have talent around the rest of the team to overcome. We do not.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:43 pm 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
Ireland is actually improving IMO. We just got prob a top 35 pick for a backup CB, and the 3 biggest babies on the team are now gone. They werent helping us reach the playoffs anyways so those crying about talent, cry elsewhere.

People need to understand, Ireland did his job. Coyle and Philbin deemed Davis excess so Ireland got full value.

If I remember right, we had a lot of family guys on that 2007 team. ... and wow...way to spin Vontae into a backup. The minute he loses that Dolphin Jersey he is crap. LOL.



dude, that depth chart wasnt a motivational tool, he was the 3rd corner on this team. Philbin even said so.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:44 pm 
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10acjed wrote:
I am shocked. Davis is a solid corner with work ethic problems.

Unless Ireland tried to negotiate an extension and his side was off the charts I do not understand the trade.

But being he is in a contract year, it was now or never to get something in return aside from a supp pic...
Would rather have him out there than the scab that Ryan was lighting up Fri night...


VD has 2 years left on his deal.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:45 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
NFLJunkie wrote:
If I remember right, we had a lot of family guys on that 2007 team. ... and wow...way to spin Vontae into a backup. The minute he loses that Dolphin Jersey he is crap. LOL.


I know right ... LOL

Too bad his own secondary coach could be heard saying how good he thought VD could be on Hard Knocks.



"COULD BE" this after 3 years in the league for a former 1st round pick. Sorry guys but Davis is overrated.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:46 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
10acjed wrote:
I am shocked. Davis is a solid corner with work ethic problems.

Unless Ireland tried to negotiate an extension and his side was off the charts I do not understand the trade.

But being he is in a contract year, it was now or never to get something in return aside from a supp pic...
Would rather have him out there than the scab that Ryan was lighting up Fri night...


VD has 2 years left on his deal.


Really, darn so much for that theory...

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Last edited by 10acjed on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:46 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
but we got great value


Talent on the field wins football games ..... not "value". Which coincidentally is why we're also in a pickle with our putrid WR core.



just responding to your statement about getting value. We definitely did.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:47 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
we have 2 picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds next year. New England gets applause for moves like this.
Many times from guys right on this site.


They don't trade their best corner for a pick that they can't replace him with.

The best Ireland has done in the 2nd round is Sean Smith...a worse corner than Vontae.

Yeah, what a great trade! :hithead:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:47 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
but we got great value


Talent on the field wins football games ..... not "value". Which coincidentally is why we're also in a pickle with our putrid WR core.



just responding to your statement about getting value. We definitely did.


Value?? Are you kidding me?

What the hell do you expect to get out of that 2nd round pick?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:50 pm 
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10acjed wrote:
Really, darn so much for that theory...


I made the same mistake earlier in training camp when they released the first depth chart.

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Last edited by Rock Sexton on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:51 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
10acjed wrote:
Really, darn so much for that theory...


I made the same mistake earlier in training camp when they released our the first depth chart.

Yeah for some reason i was thinking 4 years.


Reading we got a 2nd and conditional 6th for him...

Also have some more cap room too. They could very well be trying to bring in a WR via trade...
Figure GB and Balto are stacked at WR...

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Last edited by 10acjed on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:51 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
Value?? Are you kidding me?

What the hell do you expect to get out of that 2nd round pick?


Are there any college players or cornerbacks in the 2013 draft with the last name Value? Image

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:52 pm 
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What the hell do you expect to get out of that 2nd round pick?
If we're real lucky? Another guy that starts, progresses to the near pro bowl status...then we can trade him for another 2nd and do it all over again. We like the growing pains. Its who we are.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:53 pm 
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TheBigFish wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
we have 2 picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds next year. New England gets applause for moves like this.
Many times from guys right on this site.


I knew you were gonna say that.

NE is a winning organization. We are not. They jettison players because they have talent around the rest of the team to overcome it, not to mention they know other players can be brought in to replace ...... because who wouldn't want to go play for an organization like that? They often move players at the turn of their career, not while they're young and getting closer to their prime.


Not to mention that NE drafts extremely well, which we do not.



No they don't....They have more draft busts than about anyone.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:54 pm 
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10acjed wrote:
Yeah for some reason i was thinking 4 years.


Reading we got a 2nd and conditional 6th for him...

Also have some more cap room too. They could very well be trying to bring in a WR via trade...
Figure GB and Balto are stacked at WR...


Hard for me to assume anything at this point. VD was on a rookie contract, so it couldn't have been that much space if they're going after a significant name. Would help if they gave Garrard an injury settlement and send him on his way if we need money for something like that.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:55 pm 
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Davis wasn't the type of player new Dolphins head coach Joe Philbin wants in his locker room. Philbin is weeding out players like Davis, Marshall and Chad Johnson and moving on, regardless of talent.


Very disapointing. It was no surprise before they drafted him that Vontae Davis had some attitude issues. See below in his 2009 ESPN Insider draft profile ....

ESPN Insider wrote:
Illinois head coach Ron Zook did not start him versus Iowa in 2008 because reportedly felt he wasn't playing as well as he could. Lack of visible improvement from sophomore to junior year is a concern. We've been told by multiple sources that he lacks proper respect for coaches and he only works hard when he's in the mood to do so. Vontae's brother is 49er TE Vernon Davis, who is currently underachieving in the NFL.


http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/pl ... ntae-davis

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:56 pm 
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This is not the way you rebuild.

Vontae was young, and our best player at a PREMIUM position in today's game.

We and the team constantly complain that the Defense doesn't create enough turnovers, but then we trade the only DB who creates any? Just stupid....


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:59 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
This is not the way you rebuild.

Vontae was young, and our best player at a PREMIUM position in today's game.

We and the team constantly complain that the Defense doesn't create enough turnovers, but then we trade the only DB who creates any? Just stupid....


Yes, yes, and yes.

Oh and yes.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:01 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
This is not the way you rebuild.

Vontae was young, and our best player at a PREMIUM position in today's game.

We and the team constantly complain that the Defense doesn't create enough turnovers, but then we trade the only DB who creates any? Just stupid....

100% correct. As I have said prior. Constant change brings no change. Miami continues the cycle of giving away good players for little.
Miami has now traded their best offensive player, their best DB for unknown picks.

Seeing what they did with the 3rd this year does not encourage me that they will do anything of value with this pick. We will sit & watch Davis continue his career with another team.

Again Miami passed on Nicks for Davis. How would that change in picks look now considering Miami's needs.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:04 pm 
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Dphins4me wrote:
100% correct. As I have said prior. Constant change brings no change. Miami continues the cycle of giving away good players for little.
Miami has now traded their best offensive player, their best DB for unknown picks.

Seeing what they did with the 3rd this year does not encourage me that they will do anything of value with this pick. We will sit & watch Davis continue his career with another team.


I said this before, but if they were gonna trade him why on Earth did they wait until AFTER he's being portrayed poorly on Hard Knocks? Why not trade him before the draft?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:05 pm 
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Quote:

Perhaps no other AFC East pick in the 2012 draft was more controversial than the New England Patriots’ selection of little-known defensive back Tavon Wilson of Illinois. Wilson, New England’s second-round pick, was the 24th rated safety by Scouts Inc. and wasn’t even invited to the NFL combine.




WilsonThis was viewed as a major reach by Patriots head coach Bill Belichick, who vehemently defended the pick. But looking deeper, Belichick's track record in the second round has been questionable for the past 10 drafts.

Here’s a look at Belichick’s picks in the second round since 2003:

2011: CB Ras-I Dowling and RB Shane Vereen
2010: LB Jermaine Cunningham, TE Rob Gronkowski, LB Brandon Spikes
2009: CB Darius Butler, S Pat Chung, DT Ron Brace, OT Sebastian Vollmer
2008: CB Terrence Wheatley
2006: WR Chad Jackson
2004: DE Marquise Hill
2003: S Eugene Wilson and WR Bethel Johnson

Of this group, Gronkowski and Vollmer are definite hits. Spikes and Chung have potential but need to prove they can stay healthy for a full season.

For the second round, two stud players in 14 picks (14.3 percent) is a low success rate. If you’re generous and include Chung and Spikes, that’s still only 28.5 percent.

Mike Reiss of ESPNBoston.com wrote a good column this weekend that Belichick should be trusted with the pick of Wilson. But history shows Belichick struggles in the second round, particularly with defensive backs. Butler and Wheatley were recent busts. Dowling didn't play last season and gets a chance to show what he can do this year.


And they are overrating Vollmer.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:06 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
This is not the way you rebuild.


Nope. One step forward ... one step back. We're just treading water around here. And with new offensive and defensive schemes to learn, this is going to be a tough season for our Fins even though they have a favorable schedule.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:07 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Dphins4me wrote:
100% correct. As I have said prior. Constant change brings no change. Miami continues the cycle of giving away good players for little.
Miami has now traded their best offensive player, their best DB for unknown picks.

Seeing what they did with the 3rd this year does not encourage me that they will do anything of value with this pick. We will sit & watch Davis continue his career with another team.


I said this before, but if they were gonna trade him why on Earth did they wait until AFTER he's being portrayed poorly on Hard Knocks? Why not trade him before the draft?


He didn't lose his starting job yet. Or come in out of shape yet again


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:09 pm 
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Dolphins coaching staff needs to learn how to deal with their top players instead of sending them off whenever a issue arises.
We got good value but I wouldn't trade a proven CB for a draft pick that may be good or bad. Trade also opens up another hole on this team at a position that is one of the hardest to fill.

I think Philbin has a lot to do with this deal and I have been trying to give the man a chance since he hasn't even coached a game but seriously he seems a bit too extreme for my liking right now of his expectations from every player. It's a good and a bad thing. Vontae deserved his roster spot on this team. You guys aren't even thinking injury, cause what happens now if Marshall or Smith goes down? This move was not great timing and wasn't a fan pleaser on a team desperately needing FANS and support!


Last edited by TheCarver13 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:09 pm 
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How much cap space does this save?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:10 pm 
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I am staying patient on this move and seeing if they have a trade for a veteran wide receiver up their sleeve.

In addition, I am all for giving Philbin a chance to see if "his" system becomes successful for Miami.

I like his attention to detail and quest for perfection in practices and teaching proper techniques and he will not stand for anything less than 100 percent out of the players.

No question, Vontae had some talent, but there were also legit knocks against him too.

I understand everyone wants to win now, but we just changed regime's again and you need to give some things time. Brand new coaching staff, rookie Quarterback, personnel changes.....we have to understand this team is not going to the Superbowl overnight.

Patience, it is still preseason.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:11 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:

I said this before, but if they were gonna trade him why on Earth did they wait until AFTER he's being portrayed poorly on Hard Knocks? Why not trade him before the draft?

Maybe because of that the Colts came calling. Thought they could pick up a known talented player for chump change.

This trade only makes sense if Mike Wallace is coming to Miami for a 2nd. Other than that. Total ignorant trade by whomever wanted it done.


Last edited by Dphins4me on Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:12 pm 
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Finhead34 wrote:
I am staying patient on this move and seeing if they have a trade for a veteran wide receiver up their sleeve.

In addition, I am all for giving Philbin a chance to see if "his" system becomes successful for Miami.

I like his attention to detail and quest for perfection in practices and teaching proper techniques and he will not stand for anything less than 100 percent out of the players.

No question, Vontae had some talent, but there were also legit knocks against him too.

I understand everyone wants to win now, but we just changed regime's again and you need to give some things time. Brand new coaching staff, rookie Quarterback, personnel changes.....we have to understand this team is not going to the Superbowl overnight.

Patience, it is still preseason.


Great post!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:12 pm 
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Kev1321 wrote:
He didn't lose his starting job yet. Or come in out of shape yet again


Huh?

My point is you trade him before he gets demoted for Richard Marshall and BEFORE everyone sees the conditioning issues.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:13 pm 
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Kev1321 wrote:
Finhead34 wrote:
I am staying patient on this move and seeing if they have a trade for a veteran wide receiver up their sleeve.

In addition, I am all for giving Philbin a chance to see if "his" system becomes successful for Miami.

I like his attention to detail and quest for perfection in practices and teaching proper techniques and he will not stand for anything less than 100 percent out of the players.

No question, Vontae had some talent, but there were also legit knocks against him too.

I understand everyone wants to win now, but we just changed regime's again and you need to give some things time. Brand new coaching staff, rookie Quarterback, personnel changes.....we have to understand this team is not going to the Superbowl overnight.

Patience, it is still preseason.


Great post!

karl is a Mets Fan....patience is his strong suit.... :ann0y:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:13 pm 
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Kev1321 wrote:
How much cap space does this save?


Dude was CHEAP talent. 5 year 10.25 million rookie contract.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:15 pm 
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Davis wasn't the type of player new Dolphins head coach Joe Philbin wants in his locker room. Philbin is weeding out players like Davis, Marshall and Chad Johnson and moving on, regardless of talent.


And it seems with the proper editing Hard Knocks is a great tool to justify some moves.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:16 pm 
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Finhead34 wrote:
I am staying patient on this move and seeing if they have a trade for a veteran wide receiver up their sleeve.

In addition, I am all for giving Philbin a chance to see if "his" system becomes successful for Miami.

I like his attention to detail and quest for perfection in practices and teaching proper techniques and he will not stand for anything less than 100 percent out of the players.

No question, Vontae had some talent, but there were also legit knocks against him too.

I understand everyone wants to win now, but we just changed regime's again and you need to give some things time. Brand new coaching staff, rookie Quarterback, personnel changes.....we have to understand this team is not going to the Superbowl overnight.

Patience, it is still preseason.

Understand, but when you trade your best offensive player & your best DB for future picks & spend one of those future picks on a sluggish underperforming TE who finished his career in college on a decline, then forgive us for wondering about the direction of the team.

Especially if they are going to give up on a talented young player so quickly. As you said. Its not like Miami is going to win, so why give away talent.

Davis for Wallace is the only thing that will make any sense.


Last edited by Dphins4me on Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:16 pm 
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FINesse wrote:
Quote:
Davis wasn't the type of player new Dolphins head coach Joe Philbin wants in his locker room. Philbin is weeding out players like Davis, Marshall and Chad Johnson and moving on, regardless of talent.


And it seems with the proper editing Hard Knocks is a great tool to justify some moves.


next year he'll be drafting a guys mom and dad.


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