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 Ireland likes Ginn 
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Post Re: Ireland likes Ginn
pawfectgent wrote:
I like Ted Ginn (the title of this, after all), so go ahead and dump. I'll take it.

We took a guy in the first round who was a late-second round prospect. We did not get Jerry Rice out of it. But, we got a guy who does have hands if not the most disciplined mind, and speed that no CB can handle. Revis is the best in the league this year. He destroyed the Mosses, the Smiths, the Ocho-stinkos. He owned them. The only guy who smoked him...was Ginn. If you even recall, he had help on Ginn's TD, and that dude was as toasted as Revis.

It's the same thing everyone seems to ignore as it has been for two seasons.
Whatever we ask him to do, he does pretty decently. Rush, Receive, Return, doesn't matter. He's hit the home run from all of them.

I wonder how many All-purpose yards other Dolphins who are treated with far more affection have their first three seasons? Hmmm? Well, I guess we find out, since I have little to do today and feel a bout of print-diarrhea approaching.

Here are the Dolphin's first-3 round draft choices for the last quarter-century, and what they did with the Dolphins in their first three years or less:

Patrick Turner, 2008 3rd Rd - 1 year (87th) Well, he's well on his way, with 0 catches, 0 rushes, 0 TDs and 0 yards.

Derek Hagan, 2006 3rd Rd - 2 years (82nd) A whopping 50 catches for 590 yards, and two returns for 50 yards. Three TDs. Scintillating.

Chris Chambers, 2001 2nd Rd (a) - 3 years (52nd) 164 catches (54.75 per season), 36 returns for 811 yards (22.5 avg.), 3488 all-purpose yards (15.8/rec) and 18 TDs. Made the tough catch look routine, and dropped the sure-fire pass.

Yatil Green, 1997 1st Rd - 3 years (15th) 18 catches, 234 yards (13.0/rec), 0 TDs. An injury waiting to happen. 1 game started, and that was his third year.

OJ McDuffie, 1993 1st Rd - 3 years (25th) 118 catches (39.33 per season) for 1504 yards, 9 rushes for 38 yards (4.22 avg.), 84 punt returns for 708 yards, 91 kick returns for 2086 yards, 13 total TDs and 4219 all-purpose yards. One of my all-time favorite Dolphins.

Randal Hill, 1991 1st Rd - 3 years in two visits (23rd) 33 catches, 14 returns for 291 yards, 960 all-purpose yards, 4 TDs. Ho-hum. 'Thrill hill' wasn't the same force as in college at the U.

Scott Schwedes, 1987 2nd Rd - 3 years (52nd) 13 catches for 304 yards, 81 combined returns for 793 yards, 2 TDs. Scrappy little dude who probably made the most of what little he had.

So, with ease OJ McDuffie is obviously the best of the bunch, right? Is that where you see it clearly?
Followed by Chambers probably?
Okay.
Ginn a distant third?

Ted Ginn, 2007 1st Rd - 3 years (9th), 128 catches (42.6 per season) for 1664 yards, 16 rushes for 124 yards (7.8 avg.), 170 returns for 3698 yards (combined), 5486 all-purpose yards and 10 TDs. So, our distant third has more catches for more yards and more returns for more yards than our obvious no.1?


Big whoop. It's not like being ranked 3rd on a list that has Chambers at number 2 is all that great.

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Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:26 pm
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Post Re: Ireland likes Ginn
Iowafin wrote:
Big whoop. It's not like being ranked 3rd on a list that has Chambers at number 2 is all that great.

Well, I thought that was kind of the point. Ginn has caught far more flak than all the other WRs on that list, probably more than them combined. No one seems to give a 'whoop' that the guy has done pretty well and yet is vilified like he's useless. I mean, McDuffie would be my #1 on that list, Ginn second. But OJ also had a pretty decent QB throwing the ball to him.
You can say Penny, Henne, or whomever, but McDuffie had the best back there.

So far Ginn has produced more than anybody on that list, but is viewed by some as a total bust. I just find it ridiculous that most of his critics don't give a 'whoop'. As far as myself and my own 'whoops', I think number two on a list that's headed by McDuff is pretty darned good myself.


Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:58 pm
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Post Re: Ireland likes Ginn
Phins Rock wrote:
IamPZ wrote:
I'm a proponent for sitting one of those 11 linebackers we carry and bringing 5 receivers.


I agree.

Also, Iowa, could you shrink your sig. a little? Thanks.


No one is saying they wont carry 5 WRs, but do you really think one of Bess, Ginn, Cam, or Hartline will be a #5 WR that gets on the field for 3 plays a game? Wouldnt it make sense to include one of them in a deal to get a #1 WR or acquire more draft picks in a very deep draft? Or do you think it is the 4 of them plus Turner or a new #5 WR?


Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:27 pm
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Post Re: Ireland likes Ginn
Rich wrote:
Eagles fans were cheering as Michael Irvin lay on the ground temporarily paralyzed after suffering a neck injury that I believe ended his career.

So them bashing their QB doesn't say much about the QB.


Exactly right. NFC east might be the consistantly best & toughest division & the Eagles are always right there. I dont know about him whining or how elite he is but I would not mind having McNab all these years.

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Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:39 pm
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Post Re: Ireland likes Ginn
pawfectgent wrote:
Iowafin wrote:
Big whoop. It's not like being ranked 3rd on a list that has Chambers at number 2 is all that great.

Well, I thought that was kind of the point. Ginn has caught far more flak than all the other WRs on that list, probably more than them combined. No one seems to give a 'whoop' that the guy has done pretty well and yet is vilified like he's useless. I mean, McDuffie would be my #1 on that list, Ginn second. But OJ also had a pretty decent QB throwing the ball to him.
You can say Penny, Henne, or whomever, but McDuffie had the best back there.

So far Ginn has produced more than anybody on that list, but is viewed by some as a total bust. I just find it ridiculous that most of his critics don't give a 'whoop'. As far as myself and my own 'whoops', I think number two on a list that's headed by McDuff is pretty darned good myself.


I'm not following your logic. That lists includes players that were busts. Chambers was a surprise, but he, like Ginn, drops passes like their in style. McDuffie was good, so of course he goes to the top.
It's a bad list...and Ginn is on top of the bads.

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Post Re: Ireland likes Ginn
Iowafin wrote:
pawfectgent wrote:
Iowafin wrote:
Big whoop. It's not like being ranked 3rd on a list that has Chambers at number 2 is all that great.

Well, I thought that was kind of the point. Ginn has caught far more flak than all the other WRs on that list, probably more than them combined. No one seems to give a 'whoop' that the guy has done pretty well and yet is vilified like he's useless. I mean, McDuffie would be my #1 on that list, Ginn second. But OJ also had a pretty decent QB throwing the ball to him.
You can say Penny, Henne, or whomever, but McDuffie had the best back there.

So far Ginn has produced more than anybody on that list, but is viewed by some as a total bust. I just find it ridiculous that most of his critics don't give a 'whoop'. As far as myself and my own 'whoops', I think number two on a list that's headed by McDuff is pretty darned good myself.


I'm not following your logic. That lists includes players that were busts. Chambers was a surprise, but he, like Ginn, drops passes like their in style. McDuffie was good, so of course he goes to the top.
It's a bad list...and Ginn is on top of the bads.


The guy lays out a perfect example of why Ginn has been our best WR taken in the first 3 rounds in the past 25 years, and all you do is shoot it down? Clearly you are the one not seeing Pawfects point, not the other way around.

The point is, those are all of the WR's we've taken in the first 3 rounds in the past 25 years, and Ginn has put up the most all-purpose yards out of any of them, along with taking the most flak.

So why is a guy, who has been the most productive WR we've taken in the early rounds of the draft in a quarter century, getting beat down so badly?

Seems like people hate just to hate... spread some love... WAY 2 B PAWFECT!


Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:09 am
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Post Re: Ireland likes Ginn
IamPZ wrote:
I'm not following your logic. That lists includes players that were busts. Chambers was a surprise, but he, like Ginn, drops passes like their in style. McDuffie was good, so of course he goes to the top.
It's a bad list...and Ginn is on top of the bads.


The guy lays out a perfect example of why Ginn has been our best WR taken in the first 3 rounds in the past 25 years, and all you do is shoot it down? Clearly you are the one not seeing Pawfects point, not the other way around.
[/quote]

No kiddin! I clearly said "I'm not following your logic." Nor am I following yours. Miami has drafted jack squat for receiver in the last 25 years...Ginn's gets the most flak? No, when Chambers was here I was calling for his head. When Green was drafted people were irate.
Ginn is the best of bunch of busts...there really is no point there.

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Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:16 am
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Post Re: Ireland likes Ginn
IamPZ wrote:
Iowafin wrote:

I'm not following your logic. That lists includes players that were busts. Chambers was a surprise, but he, like Ginn, drops passes like their in style. McDuffie was good, so of course he goes to the top.
It's a bad list...and Ginn is on top of the bads.


The guy lays out a perfect example of why Ginn has been our best WR taken in the first 3 rounds in the past 25 years, and all you do is shoot it down? Clearly you are the one not seeing Pawfects point, not the other way around.

The point is, those are all of the WR's we've taken in the first 3 rounds in the past 25 years, and Ginn has put up the most all-purpose yards out of any of them, along with taking the most flak.

So why is a guy, who has been the most productive WR we've taken in the early rounds of the draft in a quarter century, getting beat down so badly?

Seems like people hate just to hate... spread some love... WAY 2 B PAWFECT!


Ginn takes the most flak because he is the only WR on that list taken as a top-10 pick of the entire draft........and although his all-purpose yards are tops, his receiving skills are still very raw.

I agree that Ginn has usefulness to the Dolphins and would be upset if he were cut/released as he is the only WR on the team that can consistently beat DB's deep........I really hope that he and Henne can get a connection going next season to take full advantage of Henne's arm strength and Ginn's speed......could be a dynamic duo if they can get on the same page with the deep ball.


Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:27 am
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Post Re: Ireland likes Ginn
Iowafin wrote:
No kiddin! I clearly said "I'm not following your logic." Nor am I following yours. Miami has drafted jack squat for receiver in the last 25 years...Ginn's gets the most flak? No, when Chambers was here I was calling for his head. When Green was drafted people were irate.
Ginn is the best of bunch of busts...there really is no point there.


I wouldn't call Chambers and McDuffie busts... the rest... well yeah.


Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:12 am
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Post Re: Ireland likes Ginn
IamPZ wrote:
Iowafin wrote:
No kiddin! I clearly said "I'm not following your logic." Nor am I following yours. Miami has drafted jack squat for receiver in the last 25 years...Ginn's gets the most flak? No, when Chambers was here I was calling for his head. When Green was drafted people were irate.
Ginn is the best of bunch of busts...there really is no point there.


I wouldn't call Chambers and McDuffie busts... the rest... well yeah.


Yesum.

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Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:29 am
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Post Re: Ireland likes Ginn
IamPZ wrote:
The guy lays out a perfect example of why Ginn has been our best WR taken in the first 3 rounds in the past 25 years, and all you do is shoot it down? Clearly you are the one not seeing Pawfects point, not the other way around.

The point is, those are all of the WR's we've taken in the first 3 rounds in the past 25 years, and Ginn has put up the most all-purpose yards out of any of them, along with taking the most flak.

So why is a guy, who has been the most productive WR we've taken in the early rounds of the draft in a quarter century, getting beat down so badly?


That Ginn is 3rd on that list shows how bad a list it is.

There simply is no disputing that.

Jay Fiedler was the best QB we had for a decade. Does that mean he was a franchise QB?

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Last edited by Rich on Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:32 am
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Post Re: Ireland likes Ginn
pawfectgent wrote:
Chris Chambers, 2001 2nd Rd (a) - 3 years (52nd) 164 catches (54.75 per season), 36 returns for 811 yards (22.5 avg.), 3488 all-purpose yards (15.8/rec) and 18 TDs.

Chambers did not have 18 TDs in his first three seasons. He had 21 receiving touchdowns. (Ginn had 5)

pawfectgent wrote:
What I do know is that for the last twenty-five years, Ginn has been the most productive WR we have taken in the early rounds of the draft in his first three seasons.
I'm going to have to completely disagree with you here.

If you're a kick returner on a bad team, as Ginn was, then you're going to quickly rack up "Total Yards" stats. So the significance of a returners yardage totals on a bad team is not as great as it may appear to be to some. And obviously "Total Yards" has absolutely no bearing on the productivity of Ginn as a wide receiever.

Chris Chambers was far and away a more effective and impactful player (let alone receiver) in his first three years - and I'm taking Ginn's return game into account when I say that. But let's compare only their receiving statistics directly for a second:

CHAMBERS
2001 - 883 yrds, 7 tds
2002 - 734 yrds, 3 tds
2003 - 963 yrds, 11 tds

GINN
2007 - 420 yrds, 2 tds
2008 - 790 yrds, 2 tds
2009 - 454 yrds, 1 td

Ginn's return totals do not make up the vast difference in productivity here, because the overwhelming majority of Ginn's return efforts just got us back around the 20 on a kickoff return, which is not uncommon... and Chambers TD totals alone might outweigh every statistic Ginn has put up combined. So in my opinion Chambers was clearly more productive in his first three seasons.


Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:36 am
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Post Re: Ireland likes Ginn
Then we have the perfect fan blog-point. Some see things one way, some the other. I have been a supporter of TGs' and still am, others haven't been or still aren't.
Does he frustrate me when he doesn't come through? Absolutely. It's like going for a snack and the item you wanted is all gone, jar is empty, no bread, etc.


Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:58 am
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