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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:20 pm 
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Iowafin wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Marshall is one of the top 2 or 3 most talented WR's in the NFL....but he'd also cost way more. I don't think he's an option, especially with his ... mental state.

Boldin's the best WR available....I say go out and get em'!


So you're saying Boldin is in the top 3 of best receivers in the NFL?


I'm saying Marshall is not an option.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:27 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
Iowafin wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Marshall is one of the top 2 or 3 most talented WR's in the NFL....but he'd also cost way more. I don't think he's an option, especially with his ... mental state.

Boldin's the best WR available....I say go out and get em'!


So you're saying Boldin is in the top 3 of best receivers in the NFL?


I'm saying Marshall is not an option.


He's just as much an option as Boldin is.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:30 pm 
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Boldin is on the market, and apparently we are going after him, (assuming the reports are true, which they seem to be).

Marshall is a trouble maker that would cost multiple draft picks. He's not in play.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:36 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
Marshall is one of the top 2 or 3 most talented WR's in the NFL....


There are more than 3 wideouts I would take over him.

Obviously Johnson and Fitzgerald, but I would also take Randy Moss, Reggie Wayne, Roddy White and maybe even Vincent Jackson over him.

Quote:
Boldin's the best WR available


When did Boldin become a free agent?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:37 pm 
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MTFan wrote:
Rich wrote:
1984phins wrote:
Just remember that a draft pick isn't a guaranteed stud. Go with the proven player and make your move for this year.


Trading a pick or picks for a stud can be just as much of a crapshoot as drafting.


What is your reasoning? I can understand it being a crapshoot when your getting an older player, but Boldin is in his twenties.


What is my reasoning? It's called history.

He's 29. He will be 30 next season.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:43 pm 
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Man I get excited just dreaming of what adding Boldin to the Phins could do. Ginn would benefit but I think Bess has the potential to become a really dangerous #2 WR if defenses have to worry about a legit #1 WR like Boldin. Defenses wouldn't be so quick to stack the box to stop the running game anymore either.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:48 pm 
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Rich wrote:
What is my reasoning? It's called history.

He's 29. He will be 30 next season.


that was an honest question, I just don't get how trading a draft pick for a known player is a crapshoot. If you are trading for an older player then it can be hit or miss, but throughout "history" players traded away in their prime still play at a high level with their new team, which would actually make it the opposite of a crapshoot, more like a bird in hand.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:12 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Marshall is one of the top 2 or 3 most talented WR's in the NFL....


There are more than 3 wideouts I would take over him.

Obviously Johnson and Fitzgerald, but I would also take Randy Moss, Reggie Wayne, Roddy White and maybe even Vincent Jackson over him.

Quote:
Boldin's the best WR available


When did Boldin become a free agent?


You know what I mean; there is no secret that Boldin is ont he market, and Arizona would rather trade than keep.

As far as Marshall, I would take about 15 receivers over him. But not because of the lack of talent. The only WR's I would say are more physically gifted than him are Andre and Calvin Johnson.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:21 pm 
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Marshall for likely a 1st and a 3rd which means we get a 2nd to draft defense with till we get to the fourth round. Or you keep your 1st and 2nd and give up your 3rd for Boldin.

Talent and age of Marshal > Talent and age of Boldin
Cost of Marshal < Cost of Boldin

Personally I'd rather give up the 3rd for Boldin and see what we can get with our first two draft picks on defense.

(all this is hypothetical of course)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:35 pm 
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Phin wrote:
Marshall for likely a 1st and a 3rd which means we get a 2nd to draft defense with till we get to the fourth round. Or you keep your 1st and 2nd and give up your 3rd for Boldin.

Talent and age of Marshal > Talent and age of Boldin
Cost of Marshal < Cost of Boldin

Personally I'd rather give up the 3rd for Boldin and see what we can get with our first two draft picks on defense.

(all this is hypothetical of course)


Yeah, I'd agree in that scenario.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:40 pm 
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So what if we could Get Marshal for just a 1st? Theres a good chance that Mclain isnt on the board at 12 and if thats the case i would want to move down anyway. I think it would be awfully hard passing up on a top 5 WR at the age of 25 for a 1st round pick


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:48 pm 
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FloDro wrote:
So what if we could Get Marshal for just a 1st? Theres a good chance that Mclain isnt on the board at 12 and if thats the case i would want to move down anyway. I think it would be awfully hard passing up on a top 5 WR at the age of 25 for a 1st round pick


If the staff is thinking about drafting Dez Bryant with the #12 pick, I would say go for it and trade that pick for Marshall, pending a thorough background check


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:22 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
Earlier today, an Arizona sports radio station apparently reported that the Dolphins and Cards were in active negotiations regarding Boldin.

What about throwing in Porter with that 3rd round pick? The Cards could use a pass rusher, and could definitely use a big time locker room presense (good or bad, not sure, lol), like Porter with Dansby, Quan and Rolle likely leaving, and Warner having retired.


This actually makes sense considering that much of the Cards' staff is from Pitt.

He will be happy there as he's closer to home, and we can get what we need.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:30 pm 
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MTFan wrote:
Rich wrote:
What is my reasoning? It's called history.

He's 29. He will be 30 next season.


that was an honest question, I just don't get how trading a draft pick for a known player is a crapshoot. If you are trading for an older player then it can be hit or miss, but throughout "history" players traded away in their prime still play at a high level with their new team, which would actually make it the opposite of a crapshoot, more like a bird in hand.


And trading for receivers isn't the same crap shoot as trading for any other position. They just don't get beat up in the same way as most other positions. Moss is still playing at elite level, and will likely do so for years to come.

I expect that Boldin will do so as well. He is elite, and would be exactly what we need in that he is big, strong and knows how to fight for the ball and win. Plus his YAC is crazy, and always has been.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:45 am 
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Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Marshall is one of the top 2 or 3 most talented WR's in the NFL....


There are more than 3 wideouts I would take over him.

Obviously Johnson and Fitzgerald, but I would also take Randy Moss, Reggie Wayne, Roddy White and maybe even Vincent Jackson over him.

Quote:
Boldin's the best WR available


When did Boldin become a free agent?


I'd take Marshall over Moss any day. Moss is an aging physical freak with past issues. Marshall is a young ascending physical freak with some issues. I question Moss' dedication after some of the things I saw from him this year. Marshall might be a lot of things. But, when he plays.. he brings it. Wayne is the best route runner in the league. But, would he flourish in a offense without Peyton Manning?

I have no issue with wanting Jackson over Marshall.. however, I still think Marshall is more talented.

But, yes.. Boldin is not a Free Agent. Either way we look at it.. if we want that go to guy in FA we are going to have to give up some picks. I personally would rather have a guy who is younger and ascending and hasn't been oft injured. JMHO

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:12 am 
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hypocritex wrote:
Wayne is the best route runner in the league.


some might disagree after that super bowl performance


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:16 pm 
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MTFan wrote:
hypocritex wrote:
Wayne is the best route runner in the league.


some might disagree after that super bowl performance

One performance dosnt define a player


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:47 pm 
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FloDro wrote:
MTFan wrote:
hypocritex wrote:
Wayne is the best route runner in the league.


some might disagree after that super bowl performance

One performance dosnt define a player


true, but can it lose you "best route runner in the league?"


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:03 pm 
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All this Boldin talk makes me wonder what Eddie Moore is doing these days.

"We liked a couple of those receivers up there, but we didn't feel there was a guy that was going to come in and make more of a contribution than a linebacker." - Dave Wannstedt, on why he chose Eddie Moore over Anquan Boldin in the 2003 draft.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:24 pm 
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MTFan wrote:
but throughout "history" players traded away in their prime still play at a high level with their new team


How did that trade for Jay Cutler work out for the Bears?

How did that Roy Williams trade work out for the Cowboys?

Or Deangelo Williams, who was ranked 76th in the NFL at the cornerback position by Profootballfocus?

And that is just in the past year or two alone.

Might want to brush up on your history.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:25 pm 
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MTFan wrote:
true, but can it lose you "best route runner in the league?"


The reason Garcon and Collie were having monster games in the playoffs was because teams were doubling Wayne and Clark.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:31 pm 
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eleaf wrote:
And trading for receivers isn't the same crap shoot as trading for any other position.


Roy Williams anyone?

How about a few years ago when the Jets gave up a 2nd for Justin McCaerins, who had come off a 47 catch, 813 yard season in his 3rd year with 7 TDs. He was a flop with the Jets.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:13 pm 
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Dolphins To Offer 3rd Rounder for Boldin?
While trades cannot be made until after the new football year starts, on March 5th, according to ESPN Insider, the Dolphins are preparing to offer a 3rd rounder to the Arizona Cardinals for receiver Anquan Boldin.

The Cardinals are also reportedly interested in Dolphins linebacker Joey Porter.
http://www.dolphinsgab.com/2010/02/10/dolphins-to-offer-3rd-rounder-for-boldin/
good lil read if i might say so myself

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:39 pm 
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Rich wrote:
eleaf wrote:
And trading for receivers isn't the same crap shoot as trading for any other position.


Roy Williams anyone?

How about a few years ago when the Jets gave up a 2nd for Justin McCaerins, who had come off a 47 catch, 813 yard season in his 3rd year with 7 TDs. He was a flop with the Jets.


If the Cowboys or Jets thought they were getting much when they pulled the trigger for those trades they were kidding themselves. Granted, I thought Williams would perform better than he did for the Cowboys, but those are just stupid GM moves...not necessarily cases where it was a crap shoot.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:41 pm 
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Although I love what Anquan Boldin has been able to do, I'd have to side with Iowa on this one.

Bringing in a 30 year old player with a long list of injuries in his history isn't how you go about building a solid team.

Anyone who thinks he won't get injured again is off their rocker... he hasn't proven he can stay healthy... so why should we expect him to here?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:48 pm 
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MTFan wrote:
but throughout "history" players traded away in their prime still play at a high level with their new team


Rich wrote:
How did that trade for Jay Cutler work out for the Bears?


yet to find out

Rich wrote:
How did that Roy Williams trade work out for the Cowboys?


looks like they got who they traded for

Rich wrote:
Or Deangelo Williams, who was ranked 76th in the NFL at the cornerback position by Profootballfocus?


Deangelo Williams plays cornerback? Time to brush up on personnel

How about this history:
Marshall Faulk
Norm Van Brocklin
Jerome Bettis
Brett Favre
Steve Young
Ricky Williams
Clinton Portis
Champ Bailey
Ahman Green
etc...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:04 pm 
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Here is a question, do you look at the dolphins as having a window right now? If so, how long is that window? Knowing how long that window is (in your opinion), does Boldin fill the bill for that amount of time? Is there a lock that we could draft a better receiver in the third round than Boldin?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:15 pm 
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Rich wrote:
MTFan wrote:
true, but can it lose you "best route runner in the league?"


The reason Garcon and Collie were having monster games in the playoffs was because teams were doubling Wayne and Clark.



Very true.. Also, having Peyton Manning at QB helps a little =)

But, Wayne is a great player. He is getting up there though.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:22 pm 
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hypocritex wrote:
Rich wrote:
MTFan wrote:
true, but can it lose you "best route runner in the league?"


The reason Garcon and Collie were having monster games in the playoffs was because teams were doubling Wayne and Clark.



Very true.. Also, having Peyton Manning at QB helps a little =)

But, Wayne is a great player. He is getting up there though.


I was not referring to the playoffs, just the super bowl. If Wayne is the best route runner in the league why is everyone blaming him on Peytons pick 6 because of his poor route running. Seems to me, if he is the best route runner in the league, he would run the proper route on the biggest stage.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:27 pm 
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Phin wrote:
Here is a question, do you look at the dolphins as having a window right now? If so, how long is that window? Knowing how long that window is (in your opinion), does Boldin fill the bill for that amount of time? Is there a lock that we could draft a better receiver in the third round than Boldin?


I think our window is opening now, and as long as our front office stays consistent we could have a good decade. If Henne is the real deal, the other parts can be replaced easily over time. Us dolphin fans have seen how replacing the QB spot is not so easy.

Boldin probably has a good 5 years left. So get him if the price is right.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:13 pm 
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MTFan wrote:
I was not referring to the playoffs, just the super bowl. If Wayne is the best route runner in the league why is everyone blaming him on Peytons pick 6 because of his poor route running. Seems to me, if he is the best route runner in the league, he would run the proper route on the biggest stage.


Did it ever cross your mind that there are several reasons why he could have been out of place. It might have been Peyton that made the error. It might have been a miss-communication. Or maybe he just ran the wrong route for the play.. Which has NOTHING to do with his ability to run a route. :hithead:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:48 pm 
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Iowafin wrote:
Rich wrote:
eleaf wrote:
And trading for receivers isn't the same crap shoot as trading for any other position.


Roy Williams anyone?

How about a few years ago when the Jets gave up a 2nd for Justin McCaerins, who had come off a 47 catch, 813 yard season in his 3rd year with 7 TDs. He was a flop with the Jets.


If the Cowboys or Jets thought they were getting much when they pulled the trigger for those trades they were kidding themselves. Granted, I thought Williams would perform better than he did for the Cowboys, but those are just stupid GM moves...not necessarily cases where it was a crap shoot.


Roy Williams had come off an 82 catch 1310 yard season and then a 64 catch 838 season (in 12 games) when the Cowboys traded for him.

He was a sure thing.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:56 pm 
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MTFan wrote:
Deangelo Williams plays cornerback? Time to brush up on personnel


I meant Deangelo Hall. Time to brush up on common sense.

Quote:
How about this history:
Marshall Faulk
Norm Van Brocklin
Jerome Bettis
Brett Favre
Steve Young
Ricky Williams
Clinton Portis
Champ Bailey
Ahman Green
etc...


Favre and Young were far from established/in their prime players when they were acquired. Young was a flop in Tampa Bay and Favre had barely played any football. Ahman Green had 329 career yards when he was traded for. Again, not an established player. And you may want to do some research on Norm Van Brocklin. He played 9 season with the Rams before being traded and then was mediocre for the Eagles for two seasons before finally putting up decent numbers in his last year.

Ricky Williams was not worth the two first round picks the Dolphins gave up for him. Portis and Bailey were traded for each other.

So that about makes most of your list obsolete given your original parameters, which were:

Quote:
players traded away in their prime still play at a high level with their new team


Most of the players you listed were not playing at a high level when they were traded. And some of them didn't play at a high level after being traded.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:58 pm 
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MTFan wrote:
I was not referring to the playoffs, just the super bowl. If Wayne is the best route runner in the league why is everyone blaming him on Peytons pick 6 because of his poor route running. Seems to me, if he is the best route runner in the league, he would run the proper route on the biggest stage.


That wasn't poor route running. It was a heads up play by a corner who obviously studied film and knew the ball would come out fast against the blitz.

And even if that one singular route had been poorly ran, it means nothing. Even the best players ever in NFL history make mistakes.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:18 pm 
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Rich wrote:
MTFan wrote:
Deangelo Williams plays cornerback? Time to brush up on personnel


I meant Deangelo Hall. Time to brush up on common sense.



:boo:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:37 pm 
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hypocritex wrote:
MTFan wrote:
I was not referring to the playoffs, just the super bowl. If Wayne is the best route runner in the league why is everyone blaming him on Peytons pick 6 because of his poor route running. Seems to me, if he is the best route runner in the league, he would run the proper route on the biggest stage.


Did it ever cross your mind that there are several reasons why he could have been out of place. It might have been Peyton that made the error. It might have been a miss-communication. Or maybe he just ran the wrong route for the play.. Which has NOTHING to do with his ability to run a route. :hithead:



I'm no genius when it comes to route running. I'm just going by what numerous football professionals, including Cris Carter, have said about that particular play. My bad, you obviously are a genius when it comes to route running. :hithead:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:46 pm 
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Rich wrote:
I meant Deangelo Hall. Time to brush up on common sense.


I knew who you meant, but if you are going to banter you should know what your talking about. If I would have made that mistake you would have been all over it and probably a little harsher.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:52 pm 
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Phin wrote:
Here is a question, do you look at the dolphins as having a window right now? If so, how long is that window? Knowing how long that window is (in your opinion), does Boldin fill the bill for that amount of time? Is there a lock that we could draft a better receiver in the third round than Boldin?



The Patriots are finally finished- but they will eventually reload. I like our matchup against the Jets. The Bills are... the Bills.

Who scares us from the North? We almost beat Pitt with our 3rd QB. The Ravens defense will continue to drop, and Flacco has fewer weapons at Wr than we do. I'm not worried about the Bengals or the Browns.

The South: Indy is still the stud- in the regular season. The playoffs are different for them. They are not a lock for anything once the post season starts. We are better than Jax. Houston and Tenn appear to be even on paper, but if we make the upgrades we expect to, we are better.

The West: SD is like Indy- regular season studs, tendency to choke in the playoffs.

I see an opening. Fire me up for the 12-4 bus.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:19 pm 
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MTFan wrote:
you should know what your talking about

I should know what my talking about?

That doesn't make sense.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:22 pm 
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Phin wrote:
Rich wrote:
MTFan wrote:
Deangelo Williams plays cornerback? Time to brush up on personnel


I meant Deangelo Hall. Time to brush up on common sense.



:boo:


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