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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:22 pm 
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This day has been beyond weird....

If Smith is not starting, will he be active? Would they carry 5 CB's? JA, Sapp and Carroll play ST's...Sean may not even be dressed up for Sunday...

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:27 pm 
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Allen has been playing decent. I mean he actually plays with intensity and has a good motor. He has just been a victim of too many position changes. I like him as a CB, he just needs to get comfortable there. He is defintely more physical than Smith. I think Sean just needs confidence, the type of confidence that Vontae came in with day one. He stepped on the field believeing he was a shutdown corner and no matter what happened he continued to believe in that,

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:40 pm 
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Man am I hoping Allen does good in his starting chance. It would be awesome to have two physical corners like Allen & Davis. If Allen can get the job done, then Miami is in great shape DB wise.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:20 pm 
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it doesn't surprise me that Smith isn't showing up to what people expected of him. I was never sold that he is anything but mediocre. He is the opposite of physical and seems to lose confidence from his very first mistake, and go down hill from there.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:17 pm 
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I've seen it all now.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:22 pm 
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I've always been positive regarding Allen, I think he suffered from position and coaching changes. The guy isn't the sharpest, but he is physical and talented. I'm glad he is finally being given an opportunity to prove himself in the starting lineup at CB.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:25 pm 
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Ski_Money wrote:
I've seen it all now.


Pat White would have to throw a 50 yd TD pass and Ted Ginn would have to take a hit to validate your statement.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:27 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Ski_Money wrote:
I've seen it all now.


Pat White would have to throw a 50 yd TD pass and Ted Ginn would have to take a hit to validate your statement.

:)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:39 pm 
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Phin wrote:
I've always been positive regarding Allen, I think he suffered from position and coaching changes. The guy isn't the sharpest, but he is physical and talented. I'm glad he is finally being given an opportunity to prove himself in the starting lineup at CB.



I agree ive always thought this guy could play....He just needed time to develope........It's not his fault he was a 1st round pick and never had a coach stand behind him...Tebucky Jones was the same way...He became a pro bowl player

He is a stand up guy and has always worked hard....You cannot take that from him


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:47 pm 
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I'll get behind him, but I'm skepticle and reserve the right to b***h all day next Sunday.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:27 pm 
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Ski_Money wrote:
I'll get behind him, but I'm skepticle and reserve the right to b***h all day next Sunday.


That should go without saying.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:48 pm 
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Yes, but it doesn't. Give a guy a little praise in a game and you get the "weren't you the one three years ago blah blah blah..." post. So I put up a disclaimer now. Just for Rich, Iowa, Junkie, PR etc...


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:15 pm 
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Today has been beyond weird...

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:34 pm 
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Ski_Money wrote:
Yes, but it doesn't. Give a guy a little praise in a game and you get the "weren't you the one three years ago blah blah blah..." post. So I put up a disclaimer now.

:)
How true. I can totally identify with that remark. :yay:


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:05 pm 
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I agree with this. Sean Smith has shown nothing during preseason.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:10 pm 
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why the f--- didnt we just sign these new guys to the practice squad...none are going to play against buffalo... grant and douglas would have.....today is a big head scratcher !!!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:51 pm 
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eleaf wrote:
it doesn't surprise me that Smith isn't showing up to what people expected of him. I was never sold that he is anything but mediocre. He is the opposite of physical and seems to lose confidence from his very first mistake, and go down hill from there.


I agree very much with your last statement. Let's see what Jason Allen shows up on Sunday.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:11 pm 
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The coaches continue to try and light the proverbial fire under Sean Smith. I don't buy that the "light" has gone on for Jason Allen. The guy hasn't shown me that he's an improvement over Sean Smith, not one bit. I think that Smith was diciplined for showing up late last week and as a result he was replaced by Allen. I think Smith is being benched for disciplinary reasons, not performance reasons. I just hope this Jason Allen thing is a bluff because if he starts over Smith I think we're in trouble. I haven't been sold on Allen since he failed to lockdown a starting job by his third season.
:boo:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:16 pm 
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wkloiber13 wrote:
I haven't been sold on Allen since he failed to lockdown a starting job by his third season.
Kinda hard to lockdown a starting job when every coaching change moves you to a different position.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:26 pm 
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I think Allen has been given a bum rap. The guy never has been liked by the coaching staff that inherited him...but he outlasted every one of them. The bottom line is when someone went down in 06 it was Saban who started Allen at safety and he actually played well. In the one matchup last season he was called on to start he had 1 pick and gave up one long TD pass to Randy Moss. Moss also caught a few other balls on him because Allen had him in single coverage.

Finally, I saw this coming with Smith. Smith's athleticism for a cornerback is undeniable. His potential is there. You also can't deny that after watching the kid dominate the preseason last year he regressed with every game. He gave up way to many deep balls by not getting his head around and his two-hand touch tackling sucked. He seems to sulk after getting burned and loses his focus. The play he came in after getting benched and almost gave up an embarrassing TD against Atlanta....it showed me Smith wasn't prepared to go in and play. Take it or leave it, Smith is a project in the works. BTW...their plan might be to put Smith in the nickle job although I don't think he's suited for that. Allen, for what its worth, is a better CB than nickle. So it looks like Miami will have an untested Nolan Carroll going against the very hot Roscoe Parrish next week. He better not miss a jam or its over.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:31 am 
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Where is this kid at?


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Or this one?


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Really... where'd he go?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:02 pm 
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didn't he change his number? you know how supersticious these athletes are, maybe he needs to go back to 31!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:19 pm 
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Ski_Money wrote:
Where is this kid at?

He got paid & had some success. Forgot what got him there.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:33 pm 
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Dphins4me wrote:
wkloiber13 wrote:
I haven't been sold on Allen since he failed to lockdown a starting job by his third season.
Kinda hard to lockdown a starting job when every coaching change moves you to a different position.


I believe Allen was bounced around because he lacked the talent to start at either position. He's mediocre at both free safety and cornerback so nobody can decide where to stick him. He's been tossed around because they want to find a position/spot on the roster where he can excel. He did find it last season though, and it was special teams. The guy is good on special teams but thats about it. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for the guy to do great. I just don't buy that a light switch went on and he's suddenly better than Sean Smith.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:23 pm 
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Dphins4me wrote:
Man am I hoping Allen does good in his starting chance. It would be awesome to have two physical corners like Allen & Davis. If Allen can get the job done, then Miami is in great shape DB wise.


I'm also hopeing for good things from Jason Allen.... :yay:

One things for sure, Jason Allen will hit someone....

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:27 pm 
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wkloiber13 wrote:
Dphins4me wrote:
wkloiber13 wrote:
I haven't been sold on Allen since he failed to lockdown a starting job by his third season.
Kinda hard to lockdown a starting job when every coaching change moves you to a different position.


I believe Allen was bounced around because he lacked the talent to start at either position. He's mediocre at both free safety and cornerback so nobody can decide where to stick him. He's been tossed around because they want to find a position/spot on the roster where he can excel. He did find it last season though, and it was special teams. The guy is good on special teams but thats about it. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for the guy to do great. I just don't buy that a light switch went on and he's suddenly better than Sean Smith.


Allen never lacked talent. Anyone that watched him at Tennessee knew that. The guy was big, strong and fast (4.4 something at the combine) What he lacked was the work ethic to take it to the next level. Apparently in a contract year, Allen has decided to pull out the playbook. Who knows, it just takes some guys longer. BTW...ironically it was Ronnie Brown who ran over JA in his final year and broke his hip.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:11 pm 
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wkloiber13 wrote:

I believe Allen was bounced around because he lacked the talent to start at either position. He's mediocre at both free safety and cornerback so nobody can decide where to stick him. He's been tossed around because they want to find a position/spot on the roster where he can excel.
He did find it last season though, and it was special teams. The guy is good on special teams but thats about it.

How would we know if he was mediocre at either position? He has never had the time to settle in. This is the first time he has gotten to play at the same spot for two years in a row.

The reason he has been moved is because he is view differently by different coaches. He is a physical freak of a player. Once the mental thought process is out there on a player it take awhile to change it. No coach is going to walk in & give him the job, but still does not trust what they see in practice.



wkloiber13 wrote:
I just don't buy that a light switch went on and he's suddenly better than Sean Smith.
You act as if Sean Smith did something great last year. How many Int did he have?

This is what I mean by thought process on a player. You seem to have convinced yourself Sean Smith is some type of stud DB. He is not. He is a rookie that made a great one handed Int in Preseason last year & then disappeared a ton during the regular season.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:59 pm 
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"Allen never lacked talent. Anyone that watched him at Tennessee knew that. The guy was big, strong and fast (4.4 something at the combine) What he lacked was the work ethic to take it to the next level. Apparently in a contract year, Allen has decided to pull out the playbook. Who knows, it just takes some guys longer. BTW...ironically it was Ronnie Brown who ran over JA in his final year and broke his hip." - NFL Junkie


I agree that Allen had plenty of physical talent. However, while Allen could have all the potential and physical talent in the world we'd never know it due to his lack of work ethic as you said. If your thought process is correct, and this guy is just now starting to play because it's a contract year, then I think we'd be better off without him on this team. The guy was getting paid first round money, number sixteen overall money if I'm not mistaken. If you're not motivated to play for that kind of money then you're just flat out not motivated.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:06 pm 
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Dphins4me wrote:
wkloiber13 wrote:

I believe Allen was bounced around because he lacked the talent to start at either position. He's mediocre at both free safety and cornerback so nobody can decide where to stick him. He's been tossed around because they want to find a position/spot on the roster where he can excel.
He did find it last season though, and it was special teams. The guy is good on special teams but thats about it.

How would we know if he was mediocre at either position? He has never had the time to settle in. This is the first time he has gotten to play at the same spot for two years in a row.

The reason he has been moved is because he is view differently by different coaches. He is a physical freak of a player. Once the mental thought process is out there on a player it take awhile to change it. No coach is going to walk in & give him the job, but still does not trust what they see in practice.



wkloiber13 wrote:
I just don't buy that a light switch went on and he's suddenly better than Sean Smith.
You act as if Sean Smith did something great last year. How many Int did he have?

This is what I mean by thought process on a player. You seem to have convinced yourself Sean Smith is some type of stud DB. He is not. He is a rookie that made a great one handed Int in Preseason last year & then disappeared a ton during the regular season.


Sean Smith was statistically our best cornerback last season. He led the team in passes defended, and he gave up fewer yards, touchdowns, etc. than Vontae. Vontae only had the interceptions because he was getting targeted more. Teams saw Vontae as the guy to throw at and not Smith in my opinion. Since when does interceptions equate to talent anyway??? Many of the good corners in the league don't lead the league in interceptions year in and year out. The reason being is quarterbacks are afraid to throw the ball near them. Now I'm not saying Sean Smith is an elite cornerback, he's got a long way to go there. But what I'm getting at is I think Smith is only being replaced by Allen because the coaches want to motivate him to be great. They want to light a fire underneath him and make him step his game up. I think Sparano and the other coaches see greatness in Smith and they want to get it out of him. They want to see more emotion and physical play from Smith. As a fan, I want to see it too. You can think what you want about Sean Smith, in my opinion he'll be the starter sooner than later.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:13 pm 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
BTW...ironically it was Ronnie Brown who ran over JA in his final year and broke his hip.
6'8" 265 Lb TE from Georgia named Leonard Pope broke his hip. Allen hit him head on.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:14 pm 
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wkloiber13 wrote:
"Allen never lacked talent. Anyone that watched him at Tennessee knew that. The guy was big, strong and fast (4.4 something at the combine) What he lacked was the work ethic to take it to the next level.
I cannot speak to his work ethic. Never heard anything bad about it either. I have heard he does get sloppy with his technique sometimes in practice & relies on his physical ability.

wkloiber13 wrote:
"
Apparently in a contract year, Allen has decided to pull out the playbook. Who knows, it just takes some guys longer.
Allen is signed to a 6 Year deal. It was that 6th year that was the hold up on his rookie year. Saban wanted a 6th year, but did not want to give more money.
So he is signed through 2011. This is not his contract year.

wkloiber13 wrote:
"
BTW...ironically it was Ronnie Brown who ran over JA in his final year and broke his hip." - NFL Junkie
Leonard Pope broke his hip.

wkloiber13 wrote:
"
I agree that Allen had plenty of physical talent. However, while Allen could have all the potential and physical talent in the world we'd never know it due to his lack of work ethic as you said. If your thought process is correct, and this guy is just now starting to play because it's a contract year, then I think we'd be better off without him on this team. The guy was getting paid first round money, number sixteen overall money if I'm not mistaken. If you're not motivated to play for that kind of money then you're just flat out not motivated.
See above on his contract status.

Allen would not have remained on the team for 5 years if his work ethic was as poor as you are making it sound.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:25 pm 
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Dphins4me wrote:
wkloiber13 wrote:
"Allen never lacked talent. Anyone that watched him at Tennessee knew that. The guy was big, strong and fast (4.4 something at the combine) What he lacked was the work ethic to take it to the next level.
I cannot speak to his work ethic. Never heard anything bad about it either. I have heard he does get sloppy with his technique sometimes in practice & relies on his physical ability.

wkloiber13 wrote:
"
Apparently in a contract year, Allen has decided to pull out the playbook. Who knows, it just takes some guys longer.
Allen is signed to a 6 Year deal. It was that 6th year that was the hold up on his rookie year. Saban wanted a 6th year, but did not want to give more money.
So he is signed through 2011. This is not his contract year.

wkloiber13 wrote:
"
BTW...ironically it was Ronnie Brown who ran over JA in his final year and broke his hip." - NFL Junkie
Leonard Pope broke his hip.

wkloiber13 wrote:
"
I agree that Allen had plenty of physical talent. However, while Allen could have all the potential and physical talent in the world we'd never know it due to his lack of work ethic as you said. If your thought process is correct, and this guy is just now starting to play because it's a contract year, then I think we'd be better off without him on this team. The guy was getting paid first round money, number sixteen overall money if I'm not mistaken. If you're not motivated to play for that kind of money then you're just flat out not motivated.
See above on his contract status.

Allen would not have remained on the team for 5 years if his work ethic was as poor as you are making it sound.


I never claimed that he had poor work ethic. If you read my statement I clearly was quoting you when I said his work ethic lacked. You yourself said that he has lacked the work ethic in the past to take his game to the next level. I think we're on the same page in regards to his physical prowess and hard hitting nature, but I never said he lacked work ethic. I said that if your statements were correct then we'd be better off without him. I have no problem with Jason Allen, he's a quality veteran backup in my mind.
My opinion of a mediocre player is someone who isn't good or great, but they aren't bad either. I consider someone like Yeremiah Bell or Vernon Carey a good player, I consider someone like Jake Long or Brandon Marshall a great player. We have many mediocre players on our team. It's no knock on them, I just think that they are solid role players. Good players can change a game with their skills, and great players can take over or dominate one aspect of a game. Mediocre players to me are guys who would start on some teams in the league, but not all teams. You can be a mediocre player and still earn a starting job in the NFL. Every team needs role players.


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