God did not create the universe and the "Big Bang" was an inevitable consequence of the laws of physics, the eminent British theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking argues in a new book.

In "The Grand Design," co-authored with U.S. physicist Leonard Mlodinow, Hawking says a new series of theories made a creator of the universe redundant, according to the Times newspaper which published extracts on Thursday.

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," Hawking writes.

"It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going."

Hawking, 68, who won global recognition with his 1988 book "A Brief History of Time," an account of the origins of the universe, is renowned for his work on black holes, cosmology and quantum gravity.

Since 1974, the scientist has worked on marrying the two cornerstones of modern physics -- Albert Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, which concerns gravity and large-scale phenomena, and quantum theory, which covers subatomic particles.

His latest comments suggest he has broken away from previous views he has expressed on religion. Previously, he wrote that the laws of physics meant it was simply not necessary to believe that God had intervened in the Big Bang.

He wrote in A Brief History ... "If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason -- for then we should know the mind of God."

In his latest book, he said the 1992 discovery of a planet orbiting another star other than the Sun helped deconstruct the view of the father of physics Isaac Newton that the universe could not have arisen out of chaos but was created by God.

"That makes the coincidences of our planetary conditions -- the single Sun, the lucky combination of Earth-Sun distance and solar mass, far less remarkable, and far less compelling evidence that the Earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings," he writes.

Hawking, who is only able to speak through a computer-generated voice synthesizer, has a neuro muscular dystrophy that has progressed over the years and left him almost completely paralyzed.

He began suffering the disease in his early 20s but went on to establish himself as one of the world's leading scientific authorities, and has also made guest appearances in "Star Trek" and the cartoons "Futurama" and "The Simpsons."

Last year he announced he was stepping down as Cambridge University's Lucasian Professor of Mathematics, a position once held by Newton and one he had held since 1979.

"The Grand Design" is due to go on sale next week.

Eventually you get to a point where there had to be something/someone that was before anything else. Even if the universe is a circle of time, someone had to have drawn the circle. Know what I mean?

No, I haven't a clue what you mean. Explain WHY there had to be "someone" there.

Please educate me on something WAAAAAAAAY beyond your and my understanding.

But eventually there had to have been a first thing/being/creator that started the process. And the only thing that, that could have been is a Superior being to everything else, or to me, God.

It's way beyond anybody's understanding and will always be. But, (not to try and attack you or your beliefs), it's common sense to me.

But what if there is no beginning?

The universe is infinite

Eventually you get to a point where it is un-determinable (and always will be) what created that first starter...the smallest particle or whatever.

To me, there has to be something that started the process. Something that was there before anything else. That can only be a God.

I am not surprised that he came to this conclusion. I of course disagree not on the basis of science or ultimately logic but by faith.

Sola Fide.

Based on what?



Based on what?



Based on what?

Based on common sense.

The only answer one can have when it comes to God is faith.

Not knowledge, not fact.

Faith. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

The only answer one can have when it comes to God is faith.

Not knowledge, not fact.

Faith. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

... trying to rationalize things within the confines of your limited human intellect.

“The most amazing thing to me is existence itself. How is it that inanimate matter can organize itself to contemplate itself?Can a person be a scientist and a Christian? Yes. As I said before, the world is too complicated in all its parts and interconnections to be due to chance alone.God is the explanation for the miracle of existence.” (Allan Sandage, cosmologist and Nobel Prize winner)

Science is based on observable fact.

Dave, is your point here that uber-intelligent people can believe in god?

We all know that people at both extremes of the IQ chart can believe either way.

What makes observation fact? When it's written down? When it's tried and tested? Certain stories from history have been passed down as fact, but sometimes facts get mishandled (I'm speaking towards history). The bible can be looked at as fact, and to read it is observable, right?
Both place a heavy amount on faith.

You are trying to rationalize things within the confines of your limited human intellect.

While faith is at the core of Christianity, God doesn't expect us to have blind faith. The Bible is archeologically sound and has made many predictions that actually came true.

“If we need an atheist for a debate, I go to the philosophy department. The physics department isn’t much use.” (Robert Griffiths, physicist and winner of the Dannie Heineman Prize for Mathematical Physics)

“The most amazing thing to me is existence itself. How is it that inanimate matter can organize itself to contemplate itself?Can a person be a scientist and a Christian? Yes. As I said before, the world is too complicated in all its parts and interconnections to be due to chance alone.God is the explanation for the miracle of existence.” (Allan Sandage, cosmologist and Nobel Prize winner)

Which makes it absurd when someone tries to dismiss God or an intelligent designer based off of our current understanding of science.
Trying to define life, the formation or causation of life on earth or in space, by the current scientific understanding that we posses, is like trying to see a lifesized painting through a microscope.
Show me a narrowminded person who blindly believes in God, and I will show you a narrowminded person who blindly dismisses God.

The type of science that Hawkins understands is beyond our comprehension. He is on a level you couldn't even dream of approaching. The fact that he is only one of about 100 people in the world that can grasp the concept of general relativity demonstrates that.

He is human

That doesn't mean he is like other humans.

Your point?

You're the one that said "He's human".... so you tell me what the point is.

I don't know where your going with all this. You said that we have a limited 'human' intellect, I agreed with your statement.

The balance of science and religion is something I struggle with quite a bit. I attend Sunday school, Sunday morning service and Wednesday evening service at my church. I participate in a lot of the activities there and my kids attend the private school that is attached to the Church.

However, whenever they get on the big Creationism kicks, it makes my toes curl during the service. There are just too many facts that prove evolution and Charles Darwin. I keep my mouth shut during those discussions at church, but no matter how much "faith" I have, the scientific part of my brain takes over at those parts.

I am by no means a holy roller though. Religion is something that I have struggled with for a long time and the main reason that I am so involved with it now is because my wife got real involved with it a few years ago.

I have had arguments with my Sunday school teacher and my pastor over tithes. They can point out the 10% of gross incomes all that they want, but there is simply no way that they will ever get that from me. I make damn good money, but I still live on a very thin budget, due to my wife's low salary, her & my student loans, house note, car notes, paying for private school for 2 kids, etc. They tell me to put my faith in the Lord and he will provide. I'm sorry, I can't give them that much each month and have trust that my bills will still be paid. That's a whole different discussion though and I'll get off of my soap box now.

The balance of science and religion is something I struggle with quite a bit. I attend Sunday school, Sunday morning service and Wednesday evening service at my church. I participate in a lot of the activities there and my kids attend the private school that is attached to the Church.

However, whenever they get on the big Creationism kicks, it makes my toes curl during the service. There are just too many facts that prove evolution and Charles Darwin. I keep my mouth shut during those discussions at church, but no matter how much "faith" I have, the scientific part of my brain takes over at those parts.

...

I think it takes just as much faith to believe in evolution as it does to believe in the biblical text of God creating the universe and life.

If you are not educated in the science of evolution... then sure it does.

If you are and you realize that you can see it around you everyday, then it's not that difficult to fathom.

If you are not educated in the science of evolution... then sure it does.

If you are and you realize that you can see it around you everyday, then it's not that difficult to fathom.

You could say the same about God.

You could say the same about God.

So Rich were you educated in the science of evolution? Do you see it around you everyday?

The "education" of God was written centuries ago and hasn't changed since. Science changes everyday as new discoveries are made.

It is foolish to say you can say the same.

I was educated in the ways of God. Quite frankly I never got it. It isn't science. You have to believe in something there is absolutely no proof of anywhere. You have to believe that everything in the universe was understood by an ancient tribe of people who could barely read or write...yet they supposedly knew everything and were somehow beaten down and barely survived.

You have to trust in the word of people you would never want to leave your kids with.

Evolution doesn't claim to explain everything. It doesn't explain everything. But there is a lot there. A lot that is tangible. Provable. Explainable.

You don't get that from the word of God.

I meant that you can see it everyday around you.

See what?

Stop speaking in tongues.