So, here are your "legitimate" choices (i.e. the ones that have a chance to win in a two party system) for the 2016 election

1. Reality TV Star
2. Socialist
3. Criminal
4. Robot
5. Ayatollah

And the also rans

1. Pretty Boy
2. Narcoleptic
3. Wrinkly Angry Looking Guy

I'm very worried for the future of this country. I thought the candidates were bad in 2008 and 2012 but man, this really takes the cake.

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Its Trump vs Hillary, unless some scandal sinks him and she actually gets indicted.

The only positive to Trump running against her is he will be fearless and relentless in his attacks. For as much as her campaign will run every possible negative ad against him he will likewise hammer her at every chance.

He'll publicly introduce the women who Hillary hushed regarding Bill's affairs. He'll have the survivors of Benghazi at his rallies. And of course, he'll say over and over again how he paid to play with contributions to her and her friends.

Another factor that I think is currently underestimated is the turnout. There is a growing anger among Bernie Sanders fans regarding Hillary. They sound like Republicans with their namecalling and tirades about her. Trump is bringing more people to the Republican primaries than ever and its not just Evangelicals.

Have there been two frontrunners with more negative numbers?

One thing to note is turnout is depressed at Democrat primaries while being at all time highs at Republican primaries.

Is it Trump creating this energy or are Democrats sabotaging the Republican Party by switching and voting for Trump?

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I can't speak for other states but in MA you have to be registered well before to vote in a primary aka a Democrat operative can't just show up and vote Trump. They have to vote their registration.

Keep this in mind also - Republicans have overwhelmingly won elections from local levels to winning the Senate. They have been turning out consistently and Trump may be bringing more to the tent.

Never thought Trump would make it this far. Never seen anything like it. The Man took on the Pope and it helped him! Whhhha?

I've been wrong at every turn , almost gave up analyzing it all. But deep down I really believe alot is riding on having a GOP candidate win the overall National election. Im voting for Rubio because I'm a homer , but I'm not die heart anyone . They all have positive and negatives but Nothing like the negatives that are Hillary and Bernie Sanders.

Obama is such a bad leader I think Trump is just taking advantage of it. Then he got lucky (albeit at the expense of others) when we had the tragic shootings in France and San Bernardino. It gave him credibility. He seemed to be the one everyone was after trying to tear down and the more they tried , the more the people responded. From a advertising point of view of a brand......its really been genuis.

Going to be an interesting summer if its Trump vs Hillary.

I suppose it all depends on what qualities you consider when you define a candidate as "bad."

Obviously, you know how I feel about Obama and you have all made your feelings known. I regard John McCain as a great American. Truly heroic. Unfortunately, I didn't agree with his positions (I personally liked the 2000 version of McCain better, for what it is worth) and his pick of Sarah Palin was embarrassing.

Romney wasn't exactly sexy, but I consider both men better than any of the 2016 GOP candidates by far.



Well, I believe in the first 3 states his actual vote was a bit lower than the poll projections, but I could be wrong. I think the GOP has to own the rise of Trump all on their own. As for turnout, of course it is high. They have been angry for 8 years.

Look, this needs to be said: the GOP has lost 5/6 presidential elections (popular vote). One important reason why is the inability to put together a meaningful coalition of minority support at a time where the share of the minority vote increases every election.

Does a GOP led by Trump change any of that? I don't see how.

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I made some quick adjustments, Rich.

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84, can you explain specifically how Trump is a racist? To be honest, I'm getting tired of that word being thrown around like it is, no pun intended, the trump card in every argument.

A racist is someone who dislikes another race, hence the term. Trying to stop illegal immigration (which is inclusive of all races) or putting a voice to fears of a religion (no, fearing radical Islam has zero to do with race) isn't the equivalent of Bull Connor setting fire hoses on people.

I'm not a Trump fan and have a problem with some of his antics. But claiming he hates other races and looks down on women has a cheapness to it, like you're just throwing it out there so we'll bow to your moral high ground. Hillary Clinton started the birther movement against Obama. Does that make her a racist? She also threatened women who tried to tell their side of the story against her husband. Did she employ misogyny for her husband's benefit?

First of all, Rich's original post had some wonderful satire and sarcasm to it. I mean, I could take issue with calling Clinton a criminal and comparing Cruz to terrible leaders in Iran, and his characterization of Rubio is offensive to robots (Isaac Asimov would agree) but Rich's post is funny.

As for Trump, I think he is racist. The problem with modern day racism with some people is that it has to 10000% overt for it to be agreed upon. Racism can be and is more under the surface in many instances. His treatment of the immigration issue to me does have racist tones to it. We can disagree if you like.



Going after Megyn Kelly and implying that her tough questions on him were due to her being on her period.... Sorry, misogynist.



Okay, I'll play.

Sure, Clinton is racist for "starting" the birther movement.
Trump ran with it and used it to his benefit, so he is racist then.
Many conservatives believed it, some continue to, so they are racist as well.

Happy?

Oh, and as for Clinton starting it- do you have proof? I know you don't want to accuse someone of being/doing something without proof.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/was-hi ... l-birther/

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http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism ... -movement/

What in the bleep is modern day racism? Has it evolved to be faster, smarter and more efficient? Do families sit around the dinner table and use signals to express their dislike of other races?

He never said Megyn Kelly had her period, he never even expanded on it. Again, you are assuming and inserting your interpretation as fact.

And no I'm not happy about your response. I'm truly tired of lazy "ism" bombs from people who think it instantly wins them a debate. If I mention the Marine who was hospitalized by 6 black lives matter punks you'll hush me with "oh that is anecdotal evidence", but you'll happily throw racism labels on people who threaten your political favorites.

When it comes to Trump he is tapping into people, of all races might I add, that feel they have lost their voice. They don't want Democrats who pander to the fringe and they don't want Republicans who gladly look the other way while corporations destroy the working class. Unfortunately, I think Trump is all talk and will employ the disliked policies of both sides while boasting of his triumphs.

If you believe a criminal with high unfavorables who always seems to lose her inevitability and a socialist who makes clueless remarks about the economy, credit lending and the finance markets on a regular basis good candidates, there's no helping that situation.

I'm not talking about policy here. I am talking about credibility. Whether you agree or disagree with the person, do you believe they are a credible leader?

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You can remove the word Democratic from in front of Socialist once you educate yourself on Bernie Sanders' history. The guy has been a lifelong participant in socialist causes. Adding the term Democratic is a strategy to soften the blow. At the end of the day, his lack of economic understanding is extremely troubling when we have a very delicate economy.

As for Trump being racist, I haven't heard him make any racist remarks. I hate that people throw that label around for everything nowadays.

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By the way, Bernie became a Democrat in 2015. Seems rather convenient for a "man of principle".

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Check my post again. I referred to the 2008 and 2012 GOP candidates.

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Once again, does pushing the birther crap make someone a racist? Yes or no.
If yes, then that applies to Trump as well as Clinton.



You can check the quote again and we can try to have a discussion on what it implies, but if you want to play the game of "did X physically 100% say something" then we will have to let it go.

Have you ever implied something based on a politician's comments? If your standard of proof has to be 100% factual, then you might want to check some of your assumptions and see if it meets the 100% burden of proof. Case in point your Clinton text from above-- Her saying, "As far as I know," does not LITERALLY MEAN she is saying he is a Muslim. "As far as I know" IMPLIES it.



Getting that straw man ready...



All stuffed and ready to go.



You "think" Trump is all talk? Do you have proof? Look, sarcasm aside, why are we all here? Because I get the impression that most of the posters here would like it to be "right wing only/conservative only/anti left everything." Do you want an exchange of ideas or not? Look, has anyone on this board ever agreed to the other side at the end of a debate thread? I don't mind spending my little free time here if we are going to listen and acknowledge the other side (it doesn't even matter if we inevitably disagree).

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Democratic Socialist is his own words. Jesus, people. I guess the tongue-in-cheek was lost in the translation.

I don't need to educate myself on Sanders's history. I'm aware of enough of it.
I'm not voting for him and he isn't winning the primary.

Didn't you agree with Glenn Beck way back in 2009 or 2010 when Beck called Obama "racist?" Memory says you did, but it was a long time ago and those old posts are gone, I think.

If you say it wasnt you then that is good enough for me.

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I have no idea what you're talking about.

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There was an old thread about Glenn Beck's comments when he said Obama didn't like white people, or some variation of that. This was before phinfever changed servers or something and the old content was lost.

Since you don't remember, it must have been someone else in the thread then.

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Rich, you still haven't answered the most important question: Who is pretty boy?

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Comment 1 - no and that is my point. What is good for one has to be good for the other. You can't give Hillary a pass because you agree with her politically. I don't think either is guilty.

Comment 2 - see comment 1

Comment 3- so an actual example of racism and its proper labeling isn't satisfactory Would it be more to your liking if I quote Robert Byrd or David Dukes? I just happened to come across that story at an ideal time for that post.

Comment 4- Yes, I do think he's all talk because he changes his positions based on the crowd in front of him. He's going to build a wall and deport, but he also like amnesty? He thinks Obamacare is a travesty but he supports universal health care? You want proof, how about the story that just came out with him shunning American workers to instead seek out H1 visas for cheaper foreign labor.

I get the impression (here I go assuming) that you'd rather lecture than discuss. I asked you a simple question and gave my reasoning for it. Rather than answer you went on a rant about modern racism and how implications are acceptable for labeling. Actually, that was probably a softball question for you to try and dig up some Trump quotes via MSNBC or CNN. Instead you chose the path of insult to appear more enlightened on the subject.

PS, I'm not voting for Trump.

O'malley... wait is he still running?

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Trick question? lol

Was he ever really running...?

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Not even his mouth...he was awful.

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Just for clarification, John Kasich's official nickname is the Fruit Ninja since his karate chops look like they are slicing coconuts being thrown at him while he speaks.

John Kasich is also the most qualified, most legitimate candidate in this election. He's compromised with Clinton on balancing the budget and has been a popular governor in a purple state. His expertise in economic, budget and national security affairs is second to none.

Unfortunately, he has no chance to win.

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He doesn't have command presence. Bad posture, sloppy appearance. He also starts every sentence with "As the son of a mailman..."

He has zero chance.

I'm just shutting up and watching the circus from here on in. It's gotten so out of control...my only goal was to beat Hillary. But these three butthole need to stop with the B.S.
I'm hoping they all keep their composure on Thursday night.

The Republican party has and continues to destroy itself.

I'm sure there are plenty of Democrats who don't want Hillary Clinton to win but you don't see them marching people out to tear her to shreds. Even Bernie Sanders will not throw haymakers at her in the debates.

This will not end well for the country.

It may be destroying itself, or it may be realigning itself.

For too long the party has been run by oligarchs who promise one thing and do another. There is no point in having two Democrat parties in America.

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I agree. But it also doesn't make sense to have the Republicans doing Hillary's job for them by providing all of the video and sound bites she needs to relentlessly go after Trump down the stretch.

The Romney speech today was just ridiculous and poorly timed.

It's pretty obvious the GOP establishment (what's left of it) views Trump as unfit to be President and dangerous for this country. Check out the open letter they released by recently. They also believe he will get slaughtered in the general election.

Based on those positions, then it's not ridiculous they are making a last ditch effort to stop him.

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I think that is wishful thinking. There are no numbers to suggest he's getting slaughtered nor do I think the establishment Republicans are worried about what he'll do in office. As Rich pointed out, they've had their chance to live up to promises and botched it.

And to address the idea of slaughter, Republican turnout is shattering records while Democrat turnout is well down from 2008 levels. Now if that is some magnificently coordinated effort by Democrats to get Trump on the ballot then my hats off to how efficient their machine is.

They can try, but I think its ridiculous for them to try and get Hillary in the White House when their whole strategy has been to prove to America how bad she is. It looks incredibly foolish to the voters. And they sure loved Trump's endorsements and money 4 years ago but now they are crapping all over him when he is driving up voter turnout?

I didn't vote for Trump in the primary and I'd love to see Rubio beat him, but I believe that ship has sailed.

You can disagree with their assessments, and that is perfectly fine.

But that is why they are doing it. There was even a Was Post story (I think it was that paper) which went into depth about what Senate republicans think of Trump, and they feared the affect he would have on down ticket races- and they even planned on distancing themselves from him to win reelection.

Edit: NY Times.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/us ... vf3EiGeu7m

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validate service levels for contract



They are most likely doing this because he isn't going to be controlled by the same special interests that control them and no other reason.

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I saw an interesting quote from Mike Huckabee. He has defended Trump more than once and his daughter is a campaign manager for Donald. He might be Donalds choice for VP if he gets that far. Anyhow he made a great observation:

The GOP went to great lengths to make sure Donald Trump signed an agreement last summer that stated Donald Trump would not seek a third party run if this didn't work out for him. The thought being, if Trump didn't get any support they didn't want him to go third party and siphon votes away from the GOP candidate . Donald honored that .

Now its looking like he might win and they are threatening to all leave and go third party. Spilt it up, screw the establishment! What a bunch of Hypocrites!! They are killing the party and giving Hillary the race on a silver platter.

If we end up with Trump and Hillary as our final choices, it will be the biggest indictment of our nation's collective intelligence in our history.

I agree Trump is not my first choice. But what bothers me is we are seeing the GOP trying to undermine the people. It's so obvious that the establishment is corupt beyond repair. The Democratic party is not even close to what it used to be.it's beyond left field. Probably my favorite candidate in this entire circus would have been Jim Webb.

I'm seriously sick about what's transpired within the GOP party the last few weeks. The mega rich banding together, the Ricketts, they are just as bad as the far right. They will succeed in ousting Trump and then because of the obvious tactics used (you know Trump won't leave quietly ) welcome to Obamas 3rd term.

So Trump isn't a misogynist, huh?

All of you conservatives or right leaning independents, you better hope you can get enough white men in their 40s and older to come out and vote for Trump or you will have President Clinton.

I don't think you will find enough of those voters, so I look forward to Trump winning the GOP nomination.

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I've never seen the Dems so scared. OBAMA will be the most active president in history thus summer. Biden will be out, they know this will be a FIGHT like never before. And that's if Clinton doesn't get indicted.

I'm not a Trump fan boy, but they laughed at him 8 months ago as you are laughing. I'd be concerned at the very least if I was a liberal .just saying. If your not , your either lying or your stupid.

Another A- contribution to the discussion. When you graduate from isms maybe you can elevate to A+ material.

This is getting so tiring.