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 Race Card 
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Post Re: Race Card
AQNOR wrote:
If you can change what a person said just by what you think then how can we have a reasonable conversation?


You can't. Which is why I referred to him being intellectually dishonest from the get go on this topic.

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Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:13 am
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Post Re: Race Card
Rich wrote:
fonzy wrote:
Ok..because you never misinterpret and reduce people's comments to your cheesy, stupid one-liners... :


I only return the same level of quality I am provided with.

Quote:
If you actually read my posts youll see I conceded several points and dealt with people straight up


Must have been on another forum.



Na, same forum where you just read bits and pieces of entire posts and then attack the person rather than the argument..same forum.

AQNOR- I'm not dealing with the Obama example, sorry but it's just a way to go down a treacherous road where if I dont say exactly what you guys mean Im accused of steering the conversation in another direction/propagandizing/etc.. Plus its just an argument about political position and your obvious dislike about Obama, I'm not here to argue about that.

Also, you need to read the quote you originally posted. Obama doesnt say that McCain and Bush were using scare tactics. He said "they're going to try to scare you" meaning the very REAL movement of people that were working against Obama based on his race and perceived religion, which wasnt a majority of the population but they were big enough to have an impact. None of you have actually acknowledged that this group actually had any effect on the election, so that's what I mean when I say we just have a difference of opinion on how much of a role race plays. You think it plays a lesser role than I do, so you felt Obama's comments to be misplaced. I think the race siituation concerning him was real and he had every right to address it like any other man on the face of the earth facing such an opposition.


If you read my posts you would see that I was trying to have a dialogue, not attack you personally a la Rich or respond to serious posts with stupid one liners. The only one who made me understand your points at all was Phin, and thats because you can tell he was making an effort to discuss and not just be an a-hole.

Really, I dont care anymore.

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Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:20 pm
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Post Re: Race Card
Rich wrote:
AQNOR wrote:
If you can change what a person said just by what you think then how can we have a reasonable conversation?


You can't. Which is why I referred to him being intellectually dishonest from the get go on this topic.



You referred to me as a lot of things without knowing me from a lump of coal, as Nick Saban would say. So frankly, Im not concerned with what you think.

And give me a break..it is obvious we were all nitpicking at eachother's words and making assumptions and generalizations about eachother's posts..just like Phin said. Stop acting like you guys are are these pristine intellectual referees who are incapable of doing these things. You especially Rich.

Quote:
Example: "We all know that Fred and Bob have no money. They're going to try and take something without paying from my store." OK how would you normally understand this statement? Would the "they're" be referring to anyone, to criminals in general, to Sally and Sue? Or would people normally understand the "they're" to be referring to Fred and Bob.


RIGHT...The sentence SPECIFICALLY begins by speaking DIRECTLY about Bob and Fred. Obama's sentence starts out with "Nobody thinks that McCain and Bush have an answer...so they're". "They're" is referring to "nobody" as in nobody in the opposition. Look at that and tell me it's the same kind of sentence?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hithead:

If the sentence started out "McCain and Bush don't think that they have an answer..so they're", then you would have a stronger point. And before you accuse me of dicing up the semantics, just note that it was you who started talking about grammar.

Not to mention, how are we supposed to dissect multi-layered, purposely ambiguous political rhetoric using basic grammar rules? Just face the fact that Obama wasn't singling out those two people as the ones creating scare tactics.

I already said that Obama could have been extra clear about it and said he was only talking about that group of people, but you need to quit acting like he singled out McCain and Bush, that is not what he said.

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Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:23 pm
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Post Re: Race Card
fonzy, you've officially turned another thread into WOT.

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Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:56 pm
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Post Re: Race Card
Rich wrote:
fonzy, you've officially turned another thread into WOT.


WTF are you talking about? Im quoting people and answering to your posts. You just think your little quips should be the final word.

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Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:05 pm
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Post Re: Race Card
Quote:
You referred to me as a lot of things without knowing me from a lump of coal, as Nick Saban would say. So frankly, Im not concerned with what you think.

And give me a break..it is obvious we were all nitpicking at eachother's words and making assumptions and generalizations about eachother's posts..just like Phin said. Stop acting like you guys are are these pristine intellectual referees who are incapable of doing these things. You especially Rich.


What have I referred to you as?

Why do you keep lumping myself and Rich's post together? Why are you atributing my posts with the post's that Rich writes?

Why don't you give me an specific example instead of making broad accusations. I have tried to carry on a dialogue with you. I ask questions and you ignore them. I ask for specific expamples and you cite none. Show me an example of how I nit pick at your words. Show me an example where I said or come across as a pristine intellectual referee who is incapable of doing these things. You make accusations but you give no examples.

Quote:
Quote:
Example: "We all know that Fred and Bob have no money. They're going to try and take something without paying from my store." OK how would you normally understand this statement? Would the "they're" be referring to anyone, to criminals in general, to Sally and Sue? Or would people normally understand the "they're" to be referring to Fred and Bob.


RIGHT...The sentence SPECIFICALLY begins by speaking DIRECTLY about Bob and Fred. Obama's sentence starts out with "Nobody thinks that McCain and Bush have an answer...so they're". "They're" is referring to "nobody" as in nobody in the opposition. Look at that and tell me it's the same kind of sentence?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hithead:

If the sentence started out "McCain and Bush don't think that they have an answer..so they're", then you would have a stronger point. And before you accuse me of dicing up the semantics, just note that it was you who started talking about grammar.


Quote:
Nobody thinks that Bush and McCain have a real answer to the challenges we face. So what they're going to try to do is make you scared of me," Obama said. "You know, 'He's not patriotic enough, he's got a funny name,' you know, 'He doesn't look like all those other presidents on the dollar bills.'"


Quote:
RIGHT...The sentence SPECIFICALLY begins by speaking DIRECTLY about Bob and Fred.

No the sentence starts off with "We", "We all know ...", compared with "Nobody thinks that ..." Seems similar to me. Please show me how it is not the same kind of sentence. We refers to everyone that I was talking to and about. Then the sentence goes on and the "they'er" is clearly understood to indicate Bob and Fred and not the collective "we" because that is how pronouns work.

You go on to equate "nobody" with "they're" and then to define "nobody/they're" as nobody(all?) in the opposition. That is not the way grammer is normally used. Nobody applies to everyone because that is how it was used in the sentence. Nobody refers to Obama and his camp because it applies. Nobody would also refer to those in McCain's camp and to Bush and McCain also. It is obviously a collective "nobody" because that is how it was used. Nobody over there, or nobody in that camp, nobody in their right mind is specific. "Nobody" with no specifics is general and is understood to be exactly that.

Even if "nobody" referred to only those in opposition it would still apply to Bush and McCain. It would have applied to any and everyone in the McCain camp. Not just to fruit cakes and nuts but to all. That is what a general term does. It includes all equally unless you designate it otherwise. I really can't see how you don't undersatnd this.

If nobody only refers to people in the opposition then would that mean Obama and his camp believed that McCain did have the answers? Your interpretation makes no sense and is not the normal way people understand language.

Quote:
Not to mention, how are we supposed to dissect multi-layered, purposely ambiguous political rhetoric using basic grammar rules? Just face the fact that Obama wasn't singling out those two people as the ones creating scare tactics.


I don't think that is an accurate statement. That is what you want it to be but that does not make it true.

Yes he did single them out. That is why he used their names. Out of all of the "nobody(s)" he singled out two of them and accused them of using race to scare voters about himself.

Quote:
I already said that Obama could have been extra clear about it and said he was only talking about that group of people, but you need to quit acting like he singled out McCain and Bush, that is not what he said


Maybe you need to quit acting like Obama did not say what he said. He played the race card.


Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:27 pm
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Post Re: Race Card
fonzy wrote:
You just think your little quips should be the final word.


WOT = Waste Of Time.

I've resorted to little quips to counter your verbose waste of time posts.

Ying and yang. :fart:

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Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:02 pm
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Post Re: Race Card
Whether you are a Obama guy or not when he was elected I thought it was a great thing to show how far our country has come regarding race but I am starting to think I was wrong. Quite simply I think the country is still not ready for a african american president. Very sad. It startd with Tammy Bruce has filtered to some media & citizens.
Look , I have a very low opinion of all these guys no matter what their party . If we dont get a third party we are screwed. Some of the Bush criticism was downright low but some of the stuff being said about this guy is shameful & embarrasing , kinda like when Falwell came out with the Clinton Chronicles. You want to critsize the President go right ahead , they all deserve it but its time to do away with the hate. As Americans we are better than that.

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Sat May 01, 2010 8:16 pm
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Post Re: Race Card
FINesse wrote:
Whether you are a Obama guy or not when he was elected I thought it was a great thing to show how far our country has come regarding race but I am starting to think I was wrong. Quite simply I think the country is still not ready for a african american president. Very sad. It startd with Tammy Bruce has filtered to some media & citizens.
Look , I have a very low opinion of all these guys no matter what their party . If we dont get a third party we are screwed. Some of the Bush criticism was downright low but some of the stuff being said about this guy is shameful & embarrasing , kinda like when Falwell came out with the Clinton Chronicles. You want to critsize the President go right ahead , they all deserve it but its time to do away with the hate. As Americans we are better than that.


What are you talking about in regards to this thread?


Sun May 02, 2010 8:25 am
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Post Re: Race Card
FINesse wrote:
Whether you are a Obama guy or not when he was elected I thought it was a great thing to show how far our country has come regarding race but I am starting to think I was wrong. Quite simply I think the country is still not ready for a african american president.


I think President Obama's race is far less of an issue as you would believe.

It is not a matter of this country not being ready for an African American president. It is a matter of this country not being ready for more bailouts and exhorbitant deficits.

When Clinton was trying to pass some of the same types of reforms as Obama (healthcare), his approval rating was in the dumps, far lower than Obama's. It wasn't until he moved toward a balanced budget and reforming welfare that he became a popular president.

If we weren't facing the threat of higher taxes, more government spending and an economic malaise, Obama could be purple and the American public would love him. Skin color is only a factor to fringe elements on both sides of the political spectrum.

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Sun May 02, 2010 9:46 am
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Post Re: Race Card
I cant beleive I am sucked in to a political discussion. This is very much out of my league as I think there almost is no other dishonarable profession than politicians. I hate giving any of these people my time.
But just in every day goings on , just out & about I hear people refer to Obama using "that" word.
It also amazes me in discussions with people I dont even know , they start complaing about him & also use that word thinking as a white person it wont offend me.

Look , I dont really get into this stuff ... my opinion is these people are all crooked & life will really not change one way or another no matter which of them is in the white house. But this racism stuff is where we the people can make the change with tolerance & accpetance.
I just though the election of Obama would bring that , thats all , nothing political. But it hasnt. I just think it actually was a setback in race relations.

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Sun May 02, 2010 3:30 pm
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Post Re: Race Card
FINesse wrote:
But just in every day goings on , just out & about I hear people refer to Obama using "that" word.


So where you live and work (Palm Beach, correct?) people are using racial slurs to identify Obama?

I find that hard to believe in a place as liberal at Palm Beach, but if that is the case, you may want to move out.

Quote:
I just think it actually was a setback in race relations.


Sometimes you have to take a step backwards to take two steps forward. Not everything is a smooth path in the right direction.

I also think that a lot of Obama supporters have made this a setback in using the race card to defend him.

But I don't see his presidency as a setback for race relations, just a natural progression. It is the younger generations who are used to the idea of a minority president. It is the older generation (I bet these are the people you are running into) that isn't as accepting. Eventually you'll see a female or Hispanic president and it won't be that big a deal.

That's where we need to get.

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Mon May 03, 2010 4:46 am
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Post Re: Race Card
Racism has been around as long as two people of opposite race have been near each other. This form of hate is ancient and I see no end to it. There will never be a day where there will be no racism, that's just life. What I do foresee though is the day when racism becomes so poorly tolerated in our country that those with racist views are more apt to just keep their mouth shut. I think most people have some racist views ingrained in them to some degree or another. I don't see racism being nearly as prevalent as it was 50 years ago though. That means we are heading in the right direction. Like I said though, I don't see it ever being completely irradicated. We can educate people, and we can stand against intolerance; that will help towards making overtly racist people such a minority that they are insignificant.
As for Obama and his election, I believe for the most part the majority of people in this country were happy to see a black man in office even if they were politically opposed to them. (myself included)


Mon May 03, 2010 8:41 am
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Post Re: Race Card
Quote:
So where you live and work (Palm Beach, correct?) people are using racial slurs to identify Obama?

I find that hard to believe in a place as liberal at Palm Beach, but if that is the case, you may want to move out.


Rich .... from your mouth to God's ears! I would love to move & have tried but employment & property values being the way they are , especially in Florida I think it would be a long time coming. Still I have property in Grant, Florida. Nice lot on a lake. Small town just north of Sebastian & hopefully one day I will be able to build on it. It is very old Florida, laid back , where people do not care about status or trends & are actually nice to each other.

Palm beach certainly has its liberal spots but where I work very close to the Beach it is alot of what is called old money. That is families who are true floridians & have owned their homes for years & years & years. They pass down their homes to the next generation. Northerners & Cuban people especially the feel has ruined "their" stete. very "waspy" group they are.

BTW Rich ... a bit off topic here but on a previous thread you said you were in Insurance (I think).
You do anything with Homeowners??

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Mon May 03, 2010 5:35 pm
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Post Re: Race Card
FINesse wrote:
You do anything with Homeowners??


No, but my company does. I think my brother works in the Homeowners Insurance call center. If you have any questions PM me.

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Mon May 03, 2010 5:43 pm
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