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 Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable 
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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
Iowafin wrote:
IamPZ wrote:
Even if they do win us a Championship... I'll still be upset about the handling of Zach Thomas and Jason Taylor... you just don't treat a team's icons like that...


You mean like the Colts did with Marvin Harrison and Edjerrin James? Or Green Bay and Brett Favre? Or Pitt with Joey Porter? Or New England with Drew Bledsoe? Or Tennessee every year with seemingly every player?

I don't know how they "treated" them, because I wasn't there, but teams let their icons walk all the time.


Letting them walk is not the issue... I agree with the moves, its the matter in which it was handled.


Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:54 am
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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
The NFL is way too strict on teams and players to not cover all your bases and find this stuff out. Just look at Ricky, it's pretty clear that his childhood issues with his father casued him to have problems when he hit the limelight and he took off after we gave up two first round picks for him. It's a double edged sword here - the NFL doesn't want problem children, but it's frowned upon to do your due diligence and find out if the kid's mom was bringing guys in and out. I really feel for Jeff, the guy busts his butt to bring us talent and he's being scrutinized like crazy.

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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
Coots wrote:
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There are a lot of insinuations in that article. And no proof of anything. It's impossible to give it any credibility


You're a little late there degs, Ireland has already came out and apologized for asking Dez the question. I still don't have a problem with it, but man, the media is going to town with it. Poor little Dez Bryant wha wha wha.... *eye roll*

Mike & Mike, ESPN, PTI etc have just been going stupid about it.


I hadn't heard the confirmations or the apology. That will give the article credibility. But that doesn't change the fact that the article was all about insinuations.

I'm of a half a mind to care or not. The Dolphins are potentially offering a multi-million dollar contract to someone. They feel "pressure" testing is relevant. So they do it how they feel is necessary. Sometimes (apparently) they cross a line.

You can't toe the line if you don't cross it sometimes.


Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:30 am
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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
Quote:
The same article on Yahoo! Sports' website also cites several situations when other NFL teams have asked potentially insulting questions, bringing into question whether the league's predraft analysis of players has gone too far.

Three examples, aside from Ireland's question to Bryant, are given:

• Defensive tackle Gerald McCoy was asked during an interview with another NFL team at the Scouting Combine whether he plays in a G-string or a jock strap.

• Florida State safety Myron Rolle, who didn't play football at Florida State during his senior season to instead accept a Rhodes Scholarship, was asked by the Tampa Bay Bucs what it felt like to ``desert his team.''

• Running back Toby Gerhart was reportedly asked if being a white running back made him feel ``entitled.''



Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/04/28/1 ... z0mPDa0GB1


I am not sure what people are after when they ask these kind of questions that could not better be discerned by taking one of the many personality tests out there. I am not a personality specialist so maybe there is a reason that my limitations can not think of.

On the one hand these kind of questions seem tactless and offensive on the other this is not a casual social setting or a meet and greet event it is a job interview. Tough questions should be expected.

I find some of these questions (especially the one asked of Dez) to be needlessly crass and offensive. I would not ask this kind of question myself of others (maybe the one of Myron Rolle) but I am not in the business of drafting kids and paying them millions of dollars on which such decisions my job rests.

I think Ireland used bad judgment. He apologized. Will his personal reputation take a shot? Obviously in the minds of some. Will he be closer scrutinized in the future? Yep.

Does it hurt the Dolphins? Probably not.


Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:27 am
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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
Rich wrote:
Phin wrote:
Iowafin wrote:
Idk what the big deal is. Do people really think Ireland wanted to know about his mother being a prostitute? No. Where was it that I read that team's do this kind of thing all the time, with ridiculous questions in the interview just to gauge their reaction?

I really can't remember, but I know this isn't only limited to Jeff Ireland.

And if they continue to do that crap they are going to lose fan support and sign fewer free agents. I don't know that they are doing it with others, but if they did it with Dez, it's not a stretch to imagine they have pissed others off with inappropriate questioning as well. Classless


Your response doesn't seem to acknowledge or address what Iowa said. He said that TEAMS do this kind of thing all the time, not just the Dolphins. And he is right. It is common for teams to ask stupid or ridiculous questions of players all the time. There was a report of one Hurricanes player being asked if he would ever consider murdering someone leading up to this draft as well. That didn't get as much attention because it wasn't a) a Dolphins personnel guy asking it and b) Dez Bryant being asked.

I understand what your saying Rich, fans are too hard on their own teams (at least Dolphins fans), but honestly I am embarassed that someone from our team asked a draft prospect if his mother was a hoe. Asking if you would murder someone is an absurd question, but not exactly insulting. If someone asked if my mom was a whore, I would be replying with 'what does insulting my mother have to do with a job interview'? As for who the player was, that doesn't mean a hill of beans to me. I wasn't overly hyped on Bryant anyways. I thought we were going with Dan Williams or CJ Spiller at 12.


Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:44 am
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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
Coots wrote:

Mike & Mike, ESPN, PTI etc have just been going stupid about it.

There is a big surprise. *rolls eyes
They are just like any other media outlet, if news is slow, ride it till collapses and beat it to make sure its dead.


Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:47 am
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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
I'm sure Ireland never said "you're mother is a whore." He asked an honest question. Bryant's mother had him when she was 15 and was in jail for crack, asking if she was a prostitute is not an insulting question in that situation. If it came out of nowhere with nothing to back it up, then I may think otherwise.

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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
Here is a possible scenario where you could ask the same question with an ounce of tact:
"Now Dez, we have be reading some reports than your mother has had some troubles with the law. Can you please expound on these reports?"
and
"What is your mother's profession? (or career)"

If your wanting to know what she does for a living this is a great way to ask without being personally insulting. If your going for personally insulting, try a different tact other than insulting his mom.
"What would you say if a player called your mother a hoe?"
"Your mom has had a little bit of a checkered past, is this going to be a problem if other players taunt you on the field over this?"
"Have you ever gotten in a fight over something someone has said about your mother?"


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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
Phin wrote:
Here is a possible scenario where you could ask the same question with an ounce of tact:
"Now Dez, we have be reading some reports than your mother has had some troubles with the law. Can you please expound on these reports?"
and
"What is your mother's profession? (or career)"

If your wanting to know what she does for a living this is a great way to ask without being personally insulting. If your going for personally insulting, try a different tact other than insulting his mom.
"What would you say if a player called your mother a hoe?"
"Your mom has had a little bit of a checkered past, is this going to be a problem if other players taunt you on the field over this?"
"Have you ever gotten in a fight over something someone has said about your mother?"


Since you are positive of what he did not say, would you please enlighten us as to what he DID say?

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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
joeschmoe wrote:
Phin wrote:
Here is a possible scenario where you could ask the same question with an ounce of tact:
"Now Dez, we have be reading some reports than your mother has had some troubles with the law. Can you please expound on these reports?"
and
"What is your mother's profession? (or career)"

If your wanting to know what she does for a living this is a great way to ask without being personally insulting. If your going for personally insulting, try a different tact other than insulting his mom.
"What would you say if a player called your mother a hoe?"
"Your mom has had a little bit of a checkered past, is this going to be a problem if other players taunt you on the field over this?"
"Have you ever gotten in a fight over something someone has said about your mother?"


Since you are positive of what he did not say, would you please enlighten us as to what he DID say?

Umm, he asked if Bryant's mom was a prostitute........
http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/ne ... id=5140313


Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:03 am
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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
Phin wrote:
joeschmoe wrote:
Phin wrote:
Here is a possible scenario where you could ask the same question with an ounce of tact:
"Now Dez, we have be reading some reports than your mother has had some troubles with the law. Can you please expound on these reports?"
and
"What is your mother's profession? (or career)"

If your wanting to know what she does for a living this is a great way to ask without being personally insulting. If your going for personally insulting, try a different tact other than insulting his mom.
"What would you say if a player called your mother a hoe?"
"Your mom has had a little bit of a checkered past, is this going to be a problem if other players taunt you on the field over this?"
"Have you ever gotten in a fight over something someone has said about your mother?"


Since you are positive of what he did not say, would you please enlighten us as to what he DID say?

Umm, he asked if Bryant's mom was a prostitute........
http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/ne ... id=5140313


Do you have a direct qoute from Ireland?

He could have worded this question a number of different ways and when Bryant was asked about it, all he said is "he asked if my mother is a prostitute." Nobody knows exactly what he said, all we know is how Bryant interpreted it.

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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
joeschmoe wrote:
Do you have a direct qoute from Ireland?

He could have worded this question a number of different ways and when Bryant was asked about it, all he said is "he asked if my mother is a prostitute." Nobody knows exactly what he said, all we know is how Bryant interpreted it.


Dez made the accusation and Ireland admitted to the question. If it were worded more tactfully than what Bryant said, Ireland sure didn't mention it. I'm going to say without having been at the meeting, and based on what we know, its a safe assumption that what Bryant said is what the question was since Ireland has never disputed the accusation.
(shrug) If you want to continue to nitpick here, be my guest, but I'm done wasting my time.


Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:17 pm
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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
finfan808 wrote:
If I am you paying six figures every year then I have the right. I need to know that you aren't going to get suspended because Joey Porter called your mama a ho.....The NFL is full of trash talkers and if he can't handle it from a middle aged wanna be kicker then he shouldn't be on this team.


For a first round draft pick, it's likely that it's 7 figures, not 6. But agreed. Had he been a model player and teammate, this would be out of bounds, but he hasn't. And I agree for the exact reason above. If he can't handle it from a middle aged white guy, he gas no shot against a Porter-like player who purposefully runs his mouth to get under the skin of the opposition. And there are plenty if them.

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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
catman_56 wrote:
If he wanted to know about his Mom's criminal history, then Mr. Ireland is an idiot and should have just run a background check.


Not every piece of information is attainable in a background check....

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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
Phin wrote:
I understand what your saying Rich, fans are too hard on their own teams (at least Dolphins fans), but honestly I am embarassed that someone from our team asked a draft prospect if his mother was a hoe. Asking if you would murder someone is an absurd question, but not exactly insulting. If someone asked if my mom was a whore, I would be replying with 'what does insulting my mother have to do with a job interview'? As for who the player was, that doesn't mean a hill of beans to me. I wasn't overly hyped on Bryant anyways. I thought we were going with Dan Williams or CJ Spiller at 12.


I don't see the difference in asking if someone's mother is a prostitute versus asking if the player would murder someone.

There is no accusation in either scenario.

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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
One thing I have been wondering. If this question really upset Dez why in the world would he go public with it? I can understand if he went to Ireland (Dolphins) and wanted an apology or if he went to the commish and wanted to lodge a complaint.

If he tried those things and they did not work ok maybe, but if I am worried about my moms reputation why put this out for the media? Now for a while everytime his mom is mentioned in the media it will be conencted to this question and probably her jail time and what it was for.

As much coverage as he has caught for his supposed problems then he must have known how his mom would be treated (constant repetition) in the media.


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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
I think the rumour was floated from another source first and he responded to it, no?

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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
Not according to the original article.

Quote:
Last Wednesday, the night before he was selected 24th overall by the Cowboys, former Oklahoma State wide receiver Dez Bryant(notes) told me that during one of his predraft visits, a high-level executive of one NFL franchise had asked him if his mother, Angela, was a prostitute.


“No, my mom is not a prostitute,” said Bryant, whose background – including his mother’s lifestyle and past legal troubles – was under great scrutiny prior to the draft. “I got mad – really mad – but I didn’t show it.”


I’ve since been told by a source close to Bryant that Ireland was the person who asked the question


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=m ... sday042710


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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
Rich wrote:
catman_56 wrote:
If he wanted to know about his Mom's criminal history, then Mr. Ireland is an idiot and should have just run a background check.


Not every piece of information is attainable in a background check....



Very true, I am a lawyer and deal with background checks all day long. However, he would find out a helluva lot more from her rap sheet than he would from straight out asking her son if she was a hooker.


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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
catman_56 wrote:
Very true, I am a lawyer and deal with background checks all day long. However, he would find out a helluva lot more from her rap sheet than he would from straight out asking her son if she was a hooker.


There is no guarantee she would have a rap sheet or that if she does it would contain information about prostitution.

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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
The media is blowing this way way way out of proportion. If I had a million dollars to invest, I would wanna know if your going to take my money and spend it on hookers. Wouldn't you? Was it insensitive? Hell no. You need to know that if gets all this money he is going to hold himself in high regard rather than dump it on dumb crap I.E. Adam Jones, Ben Rothlisberger, and so on....... People need to understand that we aren't talkin' about a few dollars we are talking about millions not only in salary but in fan revenue too.


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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
finfan808 wrote:
The media is blowing this way way way out of proportion. If I had a million dollars to invest, I would wanna know if your going to take my money and spend it on hookers. Wouldn't you? Was it insensitive? Hell no. You need to know that if gets all this money he is going to hold himself in high regard rather than dump it on dumb crap I.E. Adam Jones, Ben Rothlisberger, and so on....... People need to understand that we aren't talkin' about a few dollars we are talking about millions not only in salary but in fan revenue too.

Umm there is one problem with your logic there, he wasn't asking if Dez spent money on hookers, he asked if Dez's mom was a hooker. Slight difference, unless your implying incest.


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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
Phin wrote:
finfan808 wrote:
The media is blowing this way way way out of proportion. If I had a million dollars to invest, I would wanna know if your going to take my money and spend it on hookers. Wouldn't you? Was it insensitive? Hell no. You need to know that if gets all this money he is going to hold himself in high regard rather than dump it on dumb crap I.E. Adam Jones, Ben Rothlisberger, and so on....... People need to understand that we aren't talkin' about a few dollars we are talking about millions not only in salary but in fan revenue too.

Umm there is one problem with your logic there, he wasn't asking if Dez spent money on hookers, he asked if Dez's mom was a hooker. Slight difference, unless your implying incest.


Generally speaking, if you're brought up in that sort of environment you will think it is acceptable to participate.

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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
joeschmoe wrote:

Generally speaking, if you're brought up in that sort of environment you will think it is acceptable to participate.


I don't know about the validity of that, but again, I'm fairly confident that they didn't ask the question to actually find out if she was a whore/prostitute. They wanted to see his reaction.

Remember when Matt Light went crazy on Channing Crowder because Crowder said something about his mom? It's relevant. Players trash talk so how do they respond? I don't know what they were expecting Bryant to do, but I'm sure if he threw a table and beat Ireland, Miami would not draft him because he's "too sensitive."

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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
I wonder what reaction they were looking for then. I mean probably both are acceptable , the way he answered & reacted calmy obviously but if he would have snapped back at him & said "what the F%$#" kind of a question is that? That would have been accpetable as well?

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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
Phin wrote:
Here is a possible scenario where you could ask the same question with an ounce of tact:
"Now Dez, we have be reading some reports than your mother has had some troubles with the law. Can you please expound on these reports?"
and
"What is your mother's profession? (or career)"

If your wanting to know what she does for a living this is a great way to ask without being personally insulting. If your going for personally insulting, try a different tact other than insulting his mom.
"What would you say if a player called your mother a hoe?"
"Your mom has had a little bit of a checkered past, is this going to be a problem if other players taunt you on the field over this?"
"Have you ever gotten in a fight over something someone has said about your mother?"



Playing in the NFL is different than just about any other career out there. The things guys say on the line can bring lawsuits anywhere else.

I'm not totally excusing what was said, but take it in context. Don't judge it based on what you would hear at work. Judge it based on what Bryant would hear while he was at work.


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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
........staight from Ken Herock formerly of the NFL front office who helps prepare players for the draft:

Quote:
As the Dez Bryant-Jeff Ireland controversy continues to draw conflicting opinions, a former NFL front office employee who now prepares players for pre-draft interviews has provided his two cents, via Tim Graham of ESPN.com.

"I don't feel there are any topics off-limits," Ken Herock told Graham. "If anybody thinks they're off-limits, put yourself in the eyes of an employer that's going to hire a 21-year-old and pay him $15 million or $20 million."

So, basically, Herock thinks teams have the right to ask incoming players whether their mothers are or were prostitutes. "They already know about his family," Herock said. "They just want to see how he reacts and how he's going to explain it and how he's going to handle it. . . . I don't think that question was out of line."


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... nterviews/

...........and I agree.

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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
Quote:
Ken Herock's business is preparing prospects for NFL interviews.

He's not interested in 40-yard dash times or bench press repetitions. His mission is training college kids to make an impression when it's time to shake hands with general managers, scouts and head coaches before the draft.

The former NFL personnel director grooms them to be ready for anything because no subject is off the table -- not even questions about whether your mother is a hooker.

"I don't feel there are any topics off-limits," Herock said Thursday afternoon. "If anybody thinks they're off-limits, put yourself in the eyes of an employer that's going to hire a 21-year-old and pay him $15 million or $20 million."

Herock finds nary a problem with the controversial question Miami Dolphins general manager Jeff Ireland posed to Oklahoma State receiver Dez Bryant in a pre-draft interview.

Ireland asked if Bryant's mother was a prostitute. She has served 18 months in prison for selling crack and had admitted to abusing PCP, cocaine and marijuana.

"If somebody just comes out and says 'We hear your mom's a prostitute. Can you explain that situation to me?' I don't think there's anything offensive asking that question," Herock said.


...

"They already know about his family. They just want to see how he reacts and how he's going to explain it and how he's going to handle it.

"I don't think that question was out of line."


http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/ ... off-limits

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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
I guess Bryant's mom, who demands an apology now, isn't as clean as she has lead some to believe. She says that her arrests from 12 years ago shouldn't be brought into play, but it has come out now that she was arrested in 2009 for selling crack cocaine to undercover police.
http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/ne ... id=5159981
Quote:
The mother of Dallas Cowboys draft pick Dez Bryant wants an apology for a question Miami Dolphins general manager Jeff Ireland asked her son in a pre-draft interview, saying that her distant past conviction on drug charges is unfairly being used against her son.

ESPN, however, has learned that Angela Bryant has had a more recent run-in with the law.
"When they couldn't find enough dirt on him, they went to that," she told Fanhouse.com on Monday. "It was almost like a scheme. They should never have put that kind of thing or question on him. Whatever reason they chose to do that, they are talking about my charges of 12 years ago and running with it. I'm not OK with it. But we are both going to be OK."

It had previously been known that Angela Bryant was convicted for selling crack cocaine in 1997 and served 18 months in prison.

Lufkin, Texas, police records acquired by ESPN on Monday show that she also was arrested in April 2009 after she was caught selling crack cocaine to police informants. In August, she was found guilty of two felony counts for possession of a controlled substance and the manufacture and delivery of a controlled substance, and she was sentenced to 10 years' probation.

Yahoo! Sports first reported that Ireland had asked Bryant during a pre-draft interview if his mother was a prostitute. SI.com later reported that Ireland's question was a follow-up to Bryant saying his father was a pimp and his mother worked for his father. Bryant denied ever telling Ireland his father was a pimp.


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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
Even if Ireland wants to call her, it wouldn't be for a week or two. It would take him that long to page through Craigslist to find her number...

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Mon May 03, 2010 5:31 pm
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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
The last thing I am going to say on this is that the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.

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Mon May 03, 2010 5:44 pm
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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
onlygators wrote:
Even if Ireland wants to call her, it wouldn't be for a week or two. It would take him that long to page through Craigslist to find her number...



:grin:


Mon May 03, 2010 5:46 pm
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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
This story will surface again...in February of 2011 when Miami plays Dallas in the Super Bowl. More than a few storylines to intrigue fans.

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Mon May 03, 2010 6:03 pm
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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
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Mon May 03, 2010 6:17 pm
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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
Rock Sexton wrote:
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:) :) :) :)


Mon May 03, 2010 7:19 pm
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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
Thanks catman, glad you got it.

I guess it doesn't matter that his mother was arrested for crack cocaine as recently as April 2009, right? So much for her being clean for 12 years.

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Mon May 03, 2010 9:07 pm
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Post Re: Ireland’s, Dolphins’ arrogance unacceptable
Rock Sexton wrote:
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FREAKING EPIC!!!
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)


Mon May 03, 2010 9:09 pm
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