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 All 58 Sacks 
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Post All 58 Sacks

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Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:16 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
Although blame can be spread for all 58 sacks, it should be clear to most that on an overwhelming majority of these, Tannehill simply wasn't getting time to do anything.

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Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:21 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
At least we know we have a tough SOB behind center, which makes Moore and his $5.5m contract expendable.

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Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:32 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
Lol reminds me of the 2004 offensive line with aj feeley running for his life every play. Not a single player on the line wasn't terrible at some point all giving up multiple sacks.


Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:56 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
AFCMiamiEast wrote:
At least we know we have a tough SOB behind center, which makes Moore and his $5.5m contract expendable.


David Carr was pretty tough through 2 seasons of this until he got gun shy. They need to shore this line up no matter the cost.


Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:59 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
Man that was hard to watch. Gives new meaning to the phrase "jail break"


Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:02 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
You said it Junkie............that was 10 minutes of torture.


Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:15 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
NFLJunkie wrote:
Man that was hard to watch. Gives new meaning to the phrase "jail break"


Man, he took some real big hits, too. After watching that I wouldn't shed a tear if our first 3 picks were offensive linemen.

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Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:33 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
Having a veteran, experience QB is a huge plus for Miami. Miami has been fortunate that Ryan has not gotten hurt considering how much he has been hit, much less sacked.

Because he has been fortunate enough to make it thru without getting hurt, does not mean you can release that backup QB.

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Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:37 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
phinsfansc wrote:
Having a veteran, experience QB is a huge plus for Miami. Miami has been fortunate that Ryan has not gotten hurt considering how much he has been hit, much less sacked.

Because he has been fortunate enough to make it thru without getting hurt, does not mean you can release that backup QB.


Are we seriously competing for anything without him though?

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Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:00 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
phinsfansc wrote:
Having a veteran, experience QB is a huge plus for Miami. Miami has been fortunate that Ryan has not gotten hurt considering how much he has been hit, much less sacked.

Because he has been fortunate enough to make it thru without getting hurt, does not mean you can release that backup QB.


Agree on keeping Moore for this season......The jury's not out on Tannehill...........though I hope and anticipate he'll be our starter, barring injury, for the next several years, there apparently was some discussion during the GM search on the viability of naming Moore the starter.


Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:30 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
shularino wrote:
there apparently was some discussion during the GM search on the viability of naming Moore the starter.


There was nothing apparent about this.

Someone tweeting something doesn't make a rumor an apparent truth.

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Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:41 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
OK, there were rumors.


Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:01 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
AFCMiamiEast wrote:
phinsfansc wrote:
Having a veteran, experience QB is a huge plus for Miami. Miami has been fortunate that Ryan has not gotten hurt considering how much he has been hit, much less sacked.

Because he has been fortunate enough to make it thru without getting hurt, does not mean you can release that backup QB.


Are we seriously competing for anything without him though?



Do we want to take a chance of Ryan not getting hurt and trying to get by without a competent backup QB?

Hope we don't have to find out and the OL is improved greatly, but having a solid backup QB is a good thing.

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Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:51 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
I don't know what Ryan is doing at this very moment but I would hope that he is throwing the ball over and over again to Wallace every day until it gets dark.


Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:00 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
Disturbing.

Great post Rich. I wish the the video producer could have had a timer for each snap. There were some that I thought the defender was going to beat the ball to RT on the shotgun snap.


Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:45 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
He only left the game once I believe I think it was with his knee...but he came back in the next series. Real tough guy. Remember when Matt Moore threw the bomb to Hartline then next throw was behind Clay INT. LOL..... :cry:


Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:27 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
Dolfanrar wrote:
Disturbing. There were some that I thought the defender was going to beat the ball to RT on the shotgun snap.


Not even Marino could nullify that.

:)

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Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:11 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
That was painful.


Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:06 am
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
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Man, he took some real big hits, too. After watching that I wouldn't shed a tear if our first 3 picks were offensive linemen.


Dave, I am not resting at all until Miami gets more stellar lineman to the table and as far as I am concerned they have technically replaced ONE legit starter in the off season so far. Shelley Smith, it is safe to say we don't know if he will become a front line starter as he has never been one "yet".

Rich, these video highlights reinforce the glaring weakness of this team. I sure the heck hope the drafting is smart and whatever trash is left on the street as a veteran lineman is no longer 1st tier guys and I am still a believer they should have grabbed Howard or Beadles, but that is done and past now.

It is still a HUGE concern. The only other positive I can think of is the zone blocking scheme with smaller more athletic lineman might have them more optimistic that they will lesson those sacks on Tannehill either way and if they pick up the right talent, I want to believe Benson is a good enough coach to turn this thing around.


Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:09 am
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
According to PFF:

Tannehill dropped back to pass 661 times.

He was under pressure 222 of those times, which was #19 among QB's.

He completed 44% of those throws (#21), and thew 5 TD's, with 10 picks.

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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
Rock Sexton wrote:
According to PFF:

Tannehill dropped back to pass 661 times.


Does this point to the real problem?


Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:03 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
Rock Sexton wrote:
According to PFF:

Tannehill dropped back to pass 661 times.

He was under pressure 222 of those times, which was #19 among QB's.

He completed 44% of those throws (#21), and thew 5 TD's, with 10 picks.


Go figure, pressure making a quarterback play worse. Even Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are a shell of themselves when pressured.

But when not under pressure, Tannehill completed 66% of his throws for 19 TDs and 7 INTs.

For the record, when Brady was under pressure, he completed 45% of his passes for 5TDs and 5 INTs.

Manning was 59% with 8 TDs and 5 INTs (hint, unlike Tannehill, Manning used his safety valve out of the backfield a lot).

Drew Brees was 49% with 10 TDs and 6 INTs.

Russell Wilson was 48% with 10 TDs and 5 INTs.

Aaron Rodgers was 44% with 4 TDs and 3 INTs.

Go back and look at their cumulative numbers compared to these numbers I posted and you'll see a big difference.

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Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:39 am
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
Finhead34 wrote:
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Man, he took some real big hits, too. After watching that I wouldn't shed a tear if our first 3 picks were offensive linemen.


Dave, I am not resting at all until Miami gets more stellar lineman to the table and as far as I am concerned they have technically replaced ONE legit starter in the off season so far. Shelley Smith, it is safe to say we don't know if he will become a front line starter as he has never been one "yet".


I am with you Finhead34. Most of the problems the offense has had revolve around an offensive line that can't pass block or create lanes for the running game. I have been disappointed that Miami didn't sign at least one more blue chip free agent o-lineman. Smith has not been a front line starter and neither has Fox. I guess they feel like they can fill at least two positions in the draft. I am uneasy to say the least that this will work out.

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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
I'm not sure its a one or the other blame game. The o-line stunk and the QB/RBs either aren't there yet or simply not good enough to overcome those limitations.

I know I sound like a broken record but I think we need to realize that the ceilings of some of these guys might not be top 5 at their position. And, you don't need to be to win a Super Bowl or at least go deep into the playoffs.

A better overall team and MUCH better coaching will help a lot.


Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:59 am
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
Rich wrote:
Go figure, pressure making a quarterback play worse. Even Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are a shell of themselves when pressured.

But when not under pressure, Tannehill completed 66% of his throws for 19 TDs and 7 INTs.

For the record, when Brady was under pressure, he completed 45% of his passes for 5TDs and 5 INTs.

Manning was 59% with 8 TDs and 5 INTs (hint, unlike Tannehill, Manning used his safety valve out of the backfield a lot).

Drew Brees was 49% with 10 TDs and 6 INTs.

Russell Wilson was 48% with 10 TDs and 5 INTs.

Aaron Rodgers was 44% with 4 TDs and 3 INTs.

Go back and look at their cumulative numbers compared to these numbers I posted and you'll see a big difference.


That goes without saying and it's like telling me the sky is blue. Naturally QB #'s are going to be down under pressure as compared to a clean pocket.

My point in bringing up the numbers was to illustrate yes we had 58 sacks, but according to your favorite site we ranked #19 in pressures allowed. We have been made to believe the O-line was "tha wurst in teh leegez" because of it. Granted, they weren't even middle of the pack .... but it's pretty clear they were not the only culprit for the 58 sacks.

While they upgrade the talent at that position, Tannehill still needs to improve his feel back there. The running backs will also need to improve, which I expect with Knowshon.

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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
Rock Sexton wrote:
That goes without saying and it's like telling me the sky is blue.


I'm not sure why you've felt it necessary to inject condescension into the discussion.

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but according to your favorite site


Is this really necessary?

Quote:
we ranked #19 in pressures allowed. We have been made to believe the O-line was "tha wurst in teh leegez" because of it. Granted, they weren't even middle of the pack .... but it's pretty clear they were not the only culprit for the 58 sacks.


The offensive line ranked 19th in pass blocking efficiency, yes. That signature stat doesn't take tight ends and running backs staying into block.

41 of the 58 sacks were a direct result of offensive line. That's 70% of the problem.

The backs and tight ends accounted for another 7 sacks. That's another 12%.

80-20 rule. Solve 80% of your problem and you're in a good place.

Tannehill is blamed for 3 sacks. The other 7 sacks are attributed to good coverage and/or no one getting open. This means the offensive line or tight ends or backs held their blocks and no one was open.

Quote:
While they upgrade the talent at that position, Tannehill still needs to improve his feel back there.


Another factor to consider is that the running game was not productive at all. The Dolphins were ranked 29th in run blocking and Sherman was ranked 1st in going away from the run when it was working just fine (or maybe the problem was Philbin's philosophy of not sticking to the run if it failed early).

Tannehill was 7th in pass attempts and if you add the 58 sacks, he had 646 drop backs. That's simply too much for a developing, young quarterback.

By contrast, Russell Wilson had 407 pass attempts and 451 drop backs.

I get that Philbin wanted this up-tempo offense and we signed a bunch of receivers to get the passing game going. But we would have been better served playing boring ball while letting the QB develop to keep the defense off the field.

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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
Rich wrote:
I'm not sure why you've felt it necessary to inject condescension into the discussion.


Rich I don't even want to beef with you over this same tired topic, but c'mon man. This conversation was preceeded by you hitting me with:

"Go figure, pressure making a quarterback play worse. Even Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are a shell of themselves when pressured."

If you don't want any condescension then don't deliver some yourself. If I have to have tough skin talking to you, then you surely you're not going to get bent out of shape over a little sass.

Quote:
The offensive line ranked 19th in pass blocking efficiency, yes. That signature stat doesn't take tight ends and running backs staying into block.

41 of the 58 sacks were a direct result of offensive line. That's 70% of the problem.

The backs and tight ends accounted for another 7 sacks. That's another 12%.

80-20 rule. Solve 80% of your problem and you're in a good place.

Tannehill is blamed for 3 sacks. The other 7 sacks are attributed to good coverage and/or no one getting open. This means the offensive line or tight ends or backs held their blocks and no one was open.

Another factor to consider is that the running game was not productive at all. The Dolphins were ranked 29th in run blocking and Sherman was ranked 1st in going away from the run when it was working just fine (or maybe the problem was Philbin's philosophy of not sticking to the run if it failed early).

Tannehill was 7th in pass attempts and if you add the 58 sacks, he had 646 drop backs. That's simply too much for a developing, young quarterback.

By contrast, Russell Wilson had 407 pass attempts and 451 drop backs.

I get that Philbin wanted this up-tempo offense and we signed a bunch of receivers to get the passing game going. But we would have been better served playing boring ball while letting the QB develop to keep the defense off the field.


I'm with you on the lack of consistency in involving the run game and the awful choice dropping him back to pass at the rate they did. I bitched about it many times. It exposed Tannehill's developmental flaws right now at this stage in his career.

I appreciate the work PFF does, but in watching the games this year I personally assign more than 3 sacks on him. That's light IMO. That's not saying he's responsible for all of them or even half of them though.

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Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:24 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
Rock Sexton wrote:
Rich I don't even want to beef with you over this same tired topic, but c'mon man. This conversation was preceeded by you hitting me with:

"Go figure, pressure making a quarterback play worse. Even Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are a shell of themselves when pressured."

If you don't want any condescension then don't deliver some yourself. If I have to have tough skin talking to you, then you surely you're not going to get bent out of shape over a little sass.


There was no intent in my post to condescend to anything you were saying. Sorry if it came off that way.

I was having a discussion, period, end of story.

If you felt I was, everyone on the forums, most of all yourself, would be better served by addressing it (PM or in the thread, doesn't matter) rather than just adding fuel to a fire that isn't even there.

Those types of comments are what trigger the never-ending back and forths that devolve into personal attacks. As a member of the staff and a longtime member of this site, I'm doing my best to avoid that.

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Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:39 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
Rich wrote:
Another factor to consider is that the running game was not productive at all. The Dolphins were ranked 29th in run blocking and Sherman was ranked 1st in going away from the run when it was working just fine (or maybe the problem was Philbin's philosophy of not sticking to the run if it failed early).

Tannehill was 7th in pass attempts and if you add the 58 sacks, he had 646 drop backs. That's simply too much for a developing, young quarterback.

By contrast, Russell Wilson had 407 pass attempts and 451 drop backs.

I get that Philbin wanted this up-tempo offense and we signed a bunch of receivers to get the passing game going. But we would have been better served playing boring ball while letting the QB develop to keep the defense off the field.


IMO the lack of a balanced attack was the root problem in the 58 sacks given up. I was at the Tampa/Miami Monday night game that Miami generated 2 net yards rushing. It was pathetic. Tampa was all over the snap count and in the backfield on most plays.
It is a defense's dream to make an opponent one dimensional and then pin their ears back to go after the QB. But I do remember Tannehill also missed a wide open Mike Wallace down the right sideline that would have gone for a TD against Revis.

Sherman's game plan to abandon the run magnified the problem. That is also why I am shocked that Miami hasn't throw more money at the problem through free agency. I am hoping they are keying on players with the talent to execute a zone blocking scheme.

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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
How many sacks was "Go" responsible for? Or was it "Go-Go"? Crap I can't even remember which was pass.


Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:36 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
Go.

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Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:42 pm
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
An interview with Greg Cosell of NFL Films: http://www.miamidolphins.com/multimedia ... 597bfa58f9

At the around the 5:30 mark he discusses Tannehill's struggles with his pocket presence and internal clock. On an unrelated note, Cosell really likes the Earl Mitchell signing.

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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
Rock Sexton wrote:
An interview with Greg Cosell of NFL Films: http://www.miamidolphins.com/multimedia ... 597bfa58f9

At the around the 5:30 mark he discusses Tannehill's struggles with his pocket presence and internal clock. On an unrelated note, Cosell really likes the Earl Mitchell signing.


This is also what I saw when I watched the tape, Oline is the #1 problem, TE's and RB's are another problem but also Tanne's pocket presence was factor, it's amplified behind such an inconsistent line but it's there, there are some glaring plays where he just doesn't see the rush until too late even though it's coming right at where he's looking.

A better Oline and Knowshon would help a lot but that is another aspect of Tanne's game that has to be upgraded.

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Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:27 am
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
Great article by ProFootballFocus about "unblocked pressure" ..... there are a bunch of other notables so be sure to check it out

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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
The problem with this offense and giving up sacks wasn't necessarily due to the blitz or unblocked guys. Often times, guys were just beat one on one. See Mario Williams against Tyson Clabo in the first game against the Bills.

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Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:29 am
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Post Re: All 58 Sacks
Rich wrote:
The problem with this offense and giving up sacks wasn't necessarily due to the blitz or unblocked guys. Often times, guys were just beat one on one. See Mario Williams against Tyson Clabo in the first game against the Bills.


That's fine, but that's a different stat. We would need to find how Tanny fared in those situations.

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