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 Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12 
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Post Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
Me and some of my followers on twitter [Yeah, terrible grammar] got into a bit of a spat Sunday afternoon because I believe NFL teams are best served drafting football players and they apparently are enthralled with the idea of drafting 40-yard dash times.

And so we have a minor disagreement on Tavon Austin, the West Virginia speedster.

Austin is a sprite. He ran a 4.34 official time at the combine Sunday and, I admit, he was a fine playmaker at West Virginia last year.

Austin also came to the combine with his confidence at full throat as he told the media in a press conference "“Pound for pound I am the best all-around player in the NFL Draft."

Well, I don't see the best pound for pound player in the draft as a value as a Top 10 pick, as some fans are suggesting and not even a No. 12 pick where the Dolphins will select in the first round of next April's draft.

Yes, Austin has the stats. (I love guys with the production). Yes, he has the speed. (I love speed). But he's tiny at 5-9 and 178 pounds. (I don't love guys that size at No. 12).

Yes, I would love Austin on my team. Yes, I would take him in the second round.

But in the first? At No. 12?

No thanks.

I don't take guys shorter than some girls I once dated at No. 12.

Again, I really love Austin as a player but I simply don't see the value in him that high.

Why?

Well, when you measure a player's critical factors one thing you must measure is durability. And I'm not sure a player that smallish who will be asked to go into the teeth of a defense as a slot player will be durable enough to answer the call every Sunday.

And you hence must add that worry to the usual ones about whether he can adjust to your system, and whether he's got the instincts, and can deal with the speed of the game and can handle his business off the field.

Again, that doesn't mean I don't respect Austin's talents. He can be electric on the field. What he did to Oklahoma last year was jaw-dropping.

But there have been other grand talents come into the NFL in small packages and struggle because of their size -- Bob Sanders comes to mind. He was amazing for a couple of years and then the fact he was crashing into men who were bigger and outweighed him by 40 to 100 pounds caught up with him.

You have to find a great balance with talents such as Austin's to make a thoughtful decision on where he should be drafted. Maybe he's going to be a fine player like Darren Sproles. Well, Sproles was drafted in the fourth round.

Maybe he's going to a "matchup nightmare," as NFL Network's Mike Mayock said, playing the slot receiver position. Maybe he's going to be like Wes Welker. Well, Welker went undrafted.

Maybe he'll play forever like another smallish but freakishly fast player -- cornerback Darrell Green -- did for the Washington Redskins years ago. Well, maybe, but Green was drafted at the bottom of the first round, not near the top.

Do you see the point?

If the Dolphins fall in love with Austin I would expect them to show that love after a major trade-down from No. 12. Or maybe with a second round pick.

But even this comes with a warning:

Miami GM Jeff Ireland comes from the general manager school of prototypical players. He was taught by his mentor Bill Parcells to pick prototype players that have the height, weight and look the part of bigtime NFL players. That school of thought leaves little room for dumplings like Austin.

For Ireland to consider Austin in any round would be a departure from what he's been taught.

And even if the Miami GM can loose himself from the bonds of his mentor, in my humble opinion, for Ireland to consider Austin at No. 12 would be a mistake.

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins ... rylink=cpy


Last edited by swerve13 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:28 am
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
I am an Austin fan but I do agree that 12 is too high for him


Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:30 am
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
I want my #1 pick to be a guy I believe will be on the team in 10 years. That doesn't always work out: there was no reason to believe Jake Long would have health issues and likely be off the team after his 1st contract. But it happened. Life goes on. But I don't want that to be a concern on day 1.


Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:08 am
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
degs wrote:
I want my #1 pick to be a guy I believe will be on the team in 10 years. That doesn't always work out: there was no reason to believe Jake Long would have health issues and likely be off the team after his 1st contract. But it happened. Life goes on. But I don't want that to be a concern on day 1.


agreed. And how often does a slot receiver get picked 12th in the draft?


Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:10 am
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
swerve13 wrote:
degs wrote:
I want my #1 pick to be a guy I believe will be on the team in 10 years. That doesn't always work out: there was no reason to believe Jake Long would have health issues and likely be off the team after his 1st contract. But it happened. Life goes on. But I don't want that to be a concern on day 1.


agreed. And how often does a slot receiver get picked 12th in the draft?


I will say this: I'd like the pick more than the Ted Ginn, Jason Allen or the Jamar Fletcher picks.

But that doesn't say much, lol


Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:35 am
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
swerve13 wrote:
degs wrote:
I want my #1 pick to be a guy I believe will be on the team in 10 years. That doesn't always work out: there was no reason to believe Jake Long would have health issues and likely be off the team after his 1st contract. But it happened. Life goes on. But I don't want that to be a concern on day 1.


agreed. And how often does a slot receiver get picked 12th in the draft?


Tavon has never missed a game. So I can't agree that injuries are a concern.

Let me ask you this guys. If he turns out to be Randall Cobb, is he worth it?


Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:27 am
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
Quote:
Let me ask you this guys. If he turns out to be Randall Cobb, is he worth it?


I personally say Heck no. Cobb isn't any more physically gifted then Reggie. And hes certainly not a go to, take command over the defense type of WR.

Cobb had a good year because Jennings was hurt, Jordy was drawing coverage when healthy, and the team had to commit to getting Cobb involved creatively.

This WR class is too deep for us to use our 1st pick on a could be gimmick player. Especially when the next Julio Jones is there or the next AJ Green could be had later

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Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:11 am
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
For your 12th overall pick & I hope they don't go wide receiver that early, but where does the Cobb comparison come from??? Why him? His talent certainly isn't worthy of the 12th overall pick.

IMO, I would rather draw a comparison to a receiver that would mirror someone like Julio Jones & an even bigger play maker and what if they turned out to be like him than a guy like Cobb.


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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
Finhead34 wrote:
For your 12th overall pick & I hope they don't go wide receiver that early, but where does the Cobb comparison come from??? Why him? His talent certainly isn't worthy of the 12th overall pick.

IMO, I would rather draw a comparison to a receiver that would mirror someone like Julio Jones & an even bigger play maker and what if they turned out to be like him than a guy like Cobb.


I compared him to Cobb because that's the most accurate comparison there is, in my opinion.

Why would I compare Austin to Julio Jones when there is simply no comparison?


Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:42 am
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
If he turns out to be Randall Cobb, is he worth it?

Ok PR I see what you were doing. My answer would be heck no on Austin that early. I know others don't see that being realistic either. My own point was only selecting someone that early if they were "like" a Julio Jones talent, although I realize that he went alot lower when he was drafted by Atlanta. Miami needs a play maker for sure and I hope Ireland doesn't miss this pick whether he goes wide out first round or second round. Hopefully, the second round as I think there is more value there at that pick and with as many receivers that are lumped close together in talent.

Terrence Williams from Baylor still stays on my mind.


Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:54 pm
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
Phins Rock wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
degs wrote:
I want my #1 pick to be a guy I believe will be on the team in 10 years. That doesn't always work out: there was no reason to believe Jake Long would have health issues and likely be off the team after his 1st contract. But it happened. Life goes on. But I don't want that to be a concern on day 1.


agreed. And how often does a slot receiver get picked 12th in the draft?


Tavon has never missed a game. So I can't agree that injuries are a concern.

Let me ask you this guys. If he turns out to be Randall Cobb, is he worth it?


no. I would not take Randall Cobb at 12


Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:00 pm
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
Phins Rock wrote:
Finhead34 wrote:
For your 12th overall pick & I hope they don't go wide receiver that early, but where does the Cobb comparison come from??? Why him? His talent certainly isn't worthy of the 12th overall pick.

IMO, I would rather draw a comparison to a receiver that would mirror someone like Julio Jones & an even bigger play maker and what if they turned out to be like him than a guy like Cobb.


I compared him to Cobb because that's the most accurate comparison there is, in my opinion.

Why would I compare Austin to Julio Jones when there is simply no comparison?


I've always heard him described as a smaller Percy harvin. And even then I'd say no at 12.


Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:02 pm
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
I will say this about Tavon Austin. He is very similar in size to Steve Smith when he was drafted out of Utah, as Steve was 5'9, 184 lbs. He has gotten bigger over the years and his roled has evoled into a #1 WR.

Miami is looking to get a #1 WR via free agency, and he will be a bigger wide receiver. Miami can still draft a bigger WR in this draft. I think Tavon Austin is a special talent, a kid that can be lined in the slot and be a HUGE weapon. He has the versatility to line up at RB on occasions as well.

Miami needs offensive playmakers, and right now it looks like they will be down two, as it looks like Reggie Bush will not be back and Hartline looks shaky right now.

And as far as Armando Salguero and his headlines of combine star, the kid was a baller at West Virginia and has the stats to prove it. He injury history is very good, as he missed very few games to injury, unlike Percy Harvin.

The Dolphins may very well go in another direction and they have multiple players that they can look at with the 1st round pick. But Tavon Austin is a dangerous playmaker that can help Miami.

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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
He is the MOST explosive player in the draft. Period. You can't even come close to arguing otherwise. HOWEVER, if you don't think he can stay healthy then you don't pull the trigger at 12. But, I think he has shown he can be durable. If he's there.. The more I think about it. I'd take him. He's not just a slot WR. The guy can lineup at RB. In the pistol.. And other variations that he can create a TON of mismatches. And that's the name of the game. And this guy is a mismatch nightmare... and a threat to take it to the house anytime he touches the ball.

All that being said. I still really like the idea of taking Ansah.. Or Patterson.. OR Eiffert. All of which would be considered reaches. Including Austin. But, I don't care if we can gaurantee they will be ours and these guys create plays and/or and score points for us. When it's all said and done. The only one of those guys I just named that I think has the biggest bust potential is Patterson. But, in the end I think NONE of them will be considered a reach.

Take the guy who will have the biggest impact on your team. Austin is right. He is the pound for pound the biggest playmaker in the draft.

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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
hypocritex wrote:
He is the pound for pound the biggest playmaker in the draft.


Who cares about "pound for pound"?


Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:50 pm
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
He's not just a slot WR. The guy can lineup at RB. In the pistol.. And other variations that he can create a TON of mismatches.

Heard this before, here we go....


Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:52 pm
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
degs wrote:
hypocritex wrote:
He is the pound for pound the biggest playmaker in the draft.


Who cares about "pound for pound"?



The kid can play. Do you care about that? I'm not worried about pound for pound. The Dolphins need offensive playmakers, and the kid fits the mode.

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Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:03 pm
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
phinsfansc wrote:
degs wrote:
hypocritex wrote:
He is the pound for pound the biggest playmaker in the draft.


Who cares about "pound for pound"?



The kid can play. Do you care about that? I'm not worried about pound for pound. The Dolphins need offensive playmakers, and the kid fits the mode.


Exactly. What's the difference if you take him number 1 overall or goes undrafted if he turns out to be the real deal. This isn't 2010 where you guarantee a rookie 50 million anymore there's a set cap for how much they can make. You guys say no at 12 but yes if we could drop down and pick him up later in the the first or early second and get maybe an extra pick? That just sounds like greed to me why risk losing a dynamic playmaker just because you think he's not worthy of the 12th pick but is at the 20th? More teams are willing to take more risks now because it doesn't cost the franchise 50 million guaranteed money without playing a single down.


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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
Watch every highlight video you can find on Austin. He is nasty.

I have zero problem with Miami taking him at 12, even if they sign Wallace and a possession guy.


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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
jammer wrote:
Watch every highlight video you can find on Austin. He is nasty.

I have zero problem with Miami taking him at 12, even if they sign Wallace and a possession guy.


I agree. He's definitely more similar to Percy Harvin than Randall Cobb too.

This kid is lightning fast, has the sickest moves, has production in college and has stayed durable.

He's a playmaker... and for a team who has lacked playmakers for so many years to pass up on him would be sad, but typical.


Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:32 am
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
I can see us looking at Swope in the mid-late rounds.

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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
phinsfansc wrote:
degs wrote:
hypocritex wrote:
He is the pound for pound the biggest playmaker in the draft.


Who cares about "pound for pound"?



The kid can play. Do you care about that? I'm not worried about pound for pound. The Dolphins need offensive playmakers, and the kid fits the mode.


Fine the kid can play. Does it mean he can play less than a 200 pound guy?
You are the one who brought "pound for pound" up. I'm just asking you to explain why that matters.


Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:00 am
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
I wouldn't seriously consider the guy unless he falls to us in the 2nd round, and even then I like Justin Hunter and Terrance Williams way more than I like Tavon Austin.


Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:37 am
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
degs wrote:
You are the one who brought "pound for pound" up. I'm just asking you to explain why that matters.


Actually, someone else said "pound for pound".

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Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:20 pm
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
Rich wrote:
degs wrote:
You are the one who brought "pound for pound" up. I'm just asking you to explain why that matters.


Actually, someone else said "pound for pound".


And he reiterated it. It still doesnt explain why PFP matters, which I know it doesn't but would love to hear some reason why this new "stat" should be in our vocabulary


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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
degs, I did not mention "pound for pound" in regards to Austin, hypocritex did. I could care less about pound for pound, and that is what I said.

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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
phinsfansc wrote:
degs, I did not mention "pound for pound" in regards to Austin, hypocritex did. I could care less about pound for pound, and that is what I said.


My apologies (no sarcasm)


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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
degs wrote:
phinsfansc wrote:
degs, I did not mention "pound for pound" in regards to Austin, hypocritex did. I could care less about pound for pound, and that is what I said.


My apologies (no sarcasm)



No problem. It all good.

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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
I think this kid will actually be better than Harvin so if Philbin feels he is a fit I would have no problem taking him in the 1st round. My pool of 4 players that I want at 12 are Patterson, Werner, Austin and Ansah. I will not be happy with a corner. I think there will be excellent corners like Taylor, Banks. Wreh-Wilson and Slay in the 2nd round.


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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
I have to admit I fell in love with Milliner after that championship game, but after looking at the production there's really very little difference in the top 5 or so corners. Of course, production doesn't always tell the story of a corner, it's definitely a position where tape doesn't lie... but i dont have that luxury so I gotta go off something :)


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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
IamPZ wrote:
I have to admit I fell in love with Milliner after that championship game, but after looking at the production there's really very little difference in the top 5 or so corners. Of course, production doesn't always tell the story of a corner, it's definitely a position where tape doesn't lie... but i dont have that luxury so I gotta go off something :)


Asomugha in his prime only had like 3 INT's in 4 years.

Milliner just didn't get challenged after the first few weeks.


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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
Austin's height (The dude is freaking 5 foot 8) is going to severely restrict him as an all purpose receiver in the league. Every CB/Safety he faces deep is going to be a physical mismatch for him...I can see him as a specialized, speedy slot receiver though. He definitely has the pure athleticism and talent to be a top notch receiver, it's just his outrageously small size that is going to restrict what he can/can't do at the next level.

I don't think we should draft any of these receivers in the 1st unless we trade down, there is too much depth in the 2nd-3rd rounds to do that. You're without a doubt right on about Austin's athletic ability though, but I'd be surprised to see him taken in the 1st round strictly due to his size. I haven't heard of any receiver at his height reflect 1st round status...especially a top 15 pick.

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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
IamPZ wrote:
I have to admit I fell in love with Milliner after that championship game, but after looking at the production there's really very little difference in the top 5 or so corners. Of course, production doesn't always tell the story of a corner, it's definitely a position where tape doesn't lie... but i dont have that luxury so I gotta go off something :)



good point PZ, thats the way i feel. I'd rather draft 2 corners high instead of taking Milliner at 12.


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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Austin's height (The dude is freaking 5 foot 8) is going to severely restrict him as an all purpose receiver in the league. Every CB/Safety he faces deep is going to be a physical mismatch for him...I can see him as a specialized, speedy slot receiver though. He definitely has the pure athleticism and talent to be a top notch receiver, it's just his outrageously small size that is going to restrict what he can/can't do at the next level.

I don't think we should draft any of these receivers in the 1st unless we trade down, there is too much depth in the 2nd-3rd rounds to do that. You're without a doubt right on about Austin's athletic ability though, but I'd be surprised to see him taken in the 1st round strictly due to his size. I haven't heard of any receiver at his height reflect 1st round status...especially a top 15 pick.


Santana Moss wnet in the first round and Austin is way better than him. I think he's definitely one of the best 25 players in this draft. This draft is lacking in top 15 talent. But it's a strong draft through 5 rounds.


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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
Actually.. I didn't mention that I care about him being POUND FOR POUND the best playmaker in the draft. Tavon Austin said it. And I agreed with him because he's right.

He is the best playmaker in the draft. PERIOD. Weight not counting. You really can't argue with the proof. Watch him. Look at his stats. Check out his durability.

I'd love to say that Patterson is that guy. But, he didn't perform. His measurables are definitely there. And he flashes the ability. But, his production was subpar. He had a good offense too. Thats scary. I'd rather have a guy I know can produce.

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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
swerve13 wrote:
Santana Moss wnet in the first round and Austin is way better than him.


You're perceiving your opinion as a fact...? The kid has yet to even participate in a single NFL practice, and you crown him better than a seasoned vet...I'm not saying he is going to be a bust, but a kid his size is not worth anything near 1st round consideration, especially from a team like Miami in need of an all purpose player at his position. If Austin makes it in the league, he is going to be an extremely limited player.

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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
AFCMiamiEast wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
Santana Moss wnet in the first round and Austin is way better than him.


You're perceiving your opinion as a fact...? The kid has yet to even participate in a single NFL practice, and you crown him better than a seasoned vet...I'm not saying he is going to be a bust, but a kid his size is not worth anything near 1st round consideration, especially from a team like Miami in need of an all purpose player at his position. If Austin makes it in the league, he is going to be an extremely limited player.



yup. He's a more gifted receiver. A much better prospect than Moss was.


Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:20 am
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
hypocritex wrote:
Actually.. I didn't mention that I care about him being POUND FOR POUND the best playmaker in the draft. Tavon Austin said it. And I agreed with him because he's right.

He is the best playmaker in the draft. PERIOD. Weight not counting. You really can't argue with the proof. Watch him. Look at his stats. Check out his durability.

I'd love to say that Patterson is that guy. But, he didn't perform. His measurables are definitely there. And he flashes the ability. But, his production was subpar. He had a good offense too. Thats scary. I'd rather have a guy I know can produce.


If you think he's the best guy, great! But leave out that he's the best guy Who ever watch all the Twilight films back to back because it's meaningless.


Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:56 am
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
There must be a reading comprehension issue here. No offense. But I made it pretty clear I was just agreeing with Tavon said himself. Why do I have to leave that out? It doesn't reflect an original statement from me. This is a thread on Austin and he was quoted as saying that. And he is right. Pound for pound.. Dollars to donuts. Overall. In general. What's it matter? It doesn't. He's the best playmaker in the draft period. I don't need to be told how to post because you're not picking up what I'm putting down. Thanks.

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Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:04 am
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Post Re: Tavon Austin a combine star but not a fit at No. 12
hypocritex wrote:
There must be a reading comprehension issue here. No offense. But I made it pretty clear I was just agreeing with Tavon said himself. Why do I have to leave that out? It doesn't reflect an original statement from me. This is a thread on Austin and he was quoted as saying that. And he is right. Pound for pound.. Dollars to donuts. Overall. In general. What's it matter? It doesn't. He's the best playmaker in the draft period. I don't need to be told how to post because you're not picking up what I'm putting down. Thanks.


My "comprehension" issue is that I comprehend "pound for pound" to be w weakness not a strength. It is saying that he is undersized and he is somehow trying to turn that into a strength. Imagine saying "I'm the fastest guy with a limp."

If you think the guy is the best, state that without qualification. But I don't get this idea that his weakness is something to brag about, whether you said it or he did.


Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:50 pm
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