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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:31 pm 
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The Miami Herald confirms that CB Sean Smith is likely to reach free agency without a deal in place with the Dolphins.
Smith and his agent are using Jason McCourty's six-year, $43 million contract as a baseline in negotiations, and plugged-in columnist Armando Salguero considers that too rich even for the cap-rich Dolphins. Per Salguero, the Fins view Smith as more of a "good player" as opposed to a "game changer or playmaker."


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Free agent Brian Hartline is expected to seek a contract paying him $5-6 million annually this offseason.
Jordy Nelson, the receiver to whom Hartline was optimistically compared entering the 2012 season, only makes $3.5 million annually. The Dolphins want to re-sign Hartline for 2013, but it doesn't sound like they'll get a hometown discount. Hartline is coming off career highs in catches (74) and yards (1,083).


-Miami Herald, Rotoworld


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:34 pm 
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if Hartline walks, I would then sign Wallace and Dwayne Bowe.

And then draft 3 corners.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:47 pm 
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Let him walk.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:06 pm 
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Hartline dropped a few catchable touchdown passes this season.

Catching those may have justified a $5-6 million contract. But he didn't catch'em.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:15 pm 
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It's very conceivable that Long, Smith and Hartline can all walk. And we'd be fine.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:23 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
It's very conceivable that Long, Smith and Hartline can all walk. And we'd be fine.


I'd like to bring Hartline back. He is that glue player that can get you first downs, attack the intermediate part of the field, beat one on one coverage and bail his QB out.

But as we saw this season, while he got a 1000 yards and continued showing improvement, he isn't a gamebreaker and isn't consistent from game to game.

When you look at his body of work and compare it to Jordy Nelson (who caught 15 TDs the year he signed his extension), there isn't really a comparison, so I'm not sure why he is looking for double the money.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:27 pm 
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Rich wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
It's very conceivable that Long, Smith and Hartline can all walk. And we'd be fine.


I'd like to bring Hartline back. He is that glue player that can get you first downs, attack the intermediate part of the field, beat one on one coverage and bail his QB out.

But as we saw this season, while he got a 1000 yards and continued showing improvement, he isn't a gamebreaker and isn't consistent from game to game.

When you look at his body of work and compare it to Jordy Nelson (who caught 15 TDs the year he signed his extension), there isn't really a comparison, so I'm not sure why he is looking for double the money.


That's the way I see it too.....and if we can get Bowe for about the same cost that Hartline wants, I choose Bowe 10 times out of 10. Big possesion receiver who's a huge red zone threat. We can finally start scoring touchdowns.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:43 pm 
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Do I think they are worth that much right now? Probably not, but they are close to it in my mind. Sometimes you have overspend simple as that. I would love to see what some of you say when we don't bring back a Reggie Bush, Sean Smith, or Hartline and then the New England Patriots sign one of them. Just imagine the Patriots signing a Reggie Bush. LOL Then I know half of you would be crapping your pants....


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:59 pm 
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I like Hartline, but that is a LOT of money for a guy who basically is a #3 receiver


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:06 pm 
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degs wrote:
I like Hartline, but that is a LOT of money for a guy who basically is a #3 receiver


Wrong. You don't see a #3 receiver getting a 1000 yards. He's a pretty good #2.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:16 pm 
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StereoMike wrote:
degs wrote:
I like Hartline, but that is a LOT of money for a guy who basically is a #3 receiver


Wrong. You don't see a #3 receiver getting a 1000 yards. He's a pretty good #2.


Yardage-wise sure, but what about touchdowns?

I bet most 3rd WRs have more than 1 TD.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:23 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Yardage-wise sure, but what about touchdowns?

I bet most 3rd WRs have more than 1 TD.


I blame the "system"...

Megatron had only 5 TDs, I guess that makes him a good #2...


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:08 pm 
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it seemed like hartline was tannehill's favorite target. They looked to be on the same page. Yea, its expensive, but I would hate to make tannehill take a step back by having to adjust to all new receivers. I'm all for letting smith walk if he is being stubborn, but i am more partial to keeping hartline... even if for a little more. I dunno, just my thoughts


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:12 pm 
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StereoMike wrote:

I blame the "system"...

Megatron had only 5 TDs, I guess that makes him a good #2...
To go with is 28 the past two yrs.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:16 pm 
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Dphins4me wrote:
Let him walk.


Indeed.....Jordy Nelson makes 3.5 mill on his new deal and Hartline wants 5-6 mill/per year. Sorry, but he not as good as Jordy Nelson.

I would like Sean Smith back, but I just don't think he done near enough to deserve the type of contract he is looking for. If Sean would have maintained the level of play he showed when he played against Larry Fitzgerald and AJ Green, I would be fine with it. But he did not and showed the same maddening inconsistent play that you have seen his entire career so far.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:10 pm 
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Dphins4me wrote:
To go with is 28 the past two yrs.


My point was, yards are not meaningless you know, CJ got tackled inside the 2 yard line at least 6 times this season, and then the FB got the TD on the next play, so I guess the fullback is the real hero because he got the TD, even though Megatron got 60+ yards on the drive.

You have to look at the whole picture. I guess Jorvorskie Lane is a much better player than Hartline because he had more TDs...

That's what I meant by "the system". For some teams, as soon as you get inside the 5 yard line, the wideouts are out of the equation.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:26 pm 
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TheCarver13 wrote:
Do I think they are worth that much right now? Probably not, but they are close to it in my mind. Sometimes you have overspend simple as that. I would love to see what some of you say when we don't bring back a Reggie Bush, Sean Smith, or Hartline and then the New England Patriots sign one of them. Just imagine the Patriots signing a Reggie Bush. LOL Then I know half of you would be crapping your pants....


Thats funny dude. I have to wonder if Belichick & Brady sees Hartline as a potential new Welker. I think he did some good things but he was king of a pitiful hill.

I want to be surprised about Sean Smith but I have some faith in our new DC. Coyle showed he can create solid & reliable DBs in his system, while in Cincy. If he doesn't endorse Smith as a guy he hopes to bring back for the money then I'm trusting him.

I hope we have room for Reggie tho. I think he can be special if they commit to using him

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:49 pm 
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StereoMike wrote:
degs wrote:
I like Hartline, but that is a LOT of money for a guy who basically is a #3 receiver


Wrong. You don't see a #3 receiver getting a 1000 yards. He's a pretty good #2.


How do you see Hartline contributing in 2013-2016???
Let's say hypothetically we sign Wallace and we draft the kid from Tennessee. And We keep Bess. Is Hartline still your #2? That's one possible scenario, but please give me a realistic one where. You can put Hartline as the #2 going forward.

It doesn't matter what he did. It matters what he is going to do. And he isn't going to be a #1 or a #2 receiver going forward. So you can't pay him like one.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:07 pm 
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$6M/year for Hartline is just speculations, unless I hear it from his mouth. I'm sure we can have him back for $4M/year.

Forget what Jordy Nelson is earning, he should fire his agent, he is underpaid.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:27 pm 
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Steve Zissou wrote:
Thats funny dude. I have to wonder if Belichick & Brady sees Hartline as a potential new Welker.


Why on Earth would BB and Brady confuse Hartline for the next Welker? Only thing about their game they share in common is that they're white.

StereoMike wrote:
$6M/year for Hartline is just speculations, unless I hear it from his mouth. I'm sure we can have him back for $4M/year.

Forget what Jordy Nelson is earning, he should fire his agent, he is underpaid.


Yup, Nelson is massively underpaid.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:47 pm 
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StereoMike wrote:
$6M/year for Hartline is just speculations, unless I hear it from his mouth. I'm sure we can have him back for $4M/year.

Forget what Jordy Nelson is earning, he should fire his agent, he is underpaid.



I'm fine with Hartline back at 4 mill/per year. As far a Jordy Nelson being underpaid, he probably is, but it is what it is.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:16 pm 
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StereoMike wrote:
Dphins4me wrote:
To go with is 28 the past two yrs.


My point was, yards are not meaningless you know, CJ got tackled inside the 2 yard line at least 6 times this season, and then the FB got the TD on the next play, so I guess the fullback is the real hero because he got the TD, even though Megatron got 60+ yards on the drive.

You have to look at the whole picture. I guess Jorvorskie Lane is a much better player than Hartline because he had more TDs...

That's what I meant by "the system". For some teams, as soon as you get inside the 5 yard line, the wideouts are out of the equation.


The system has nothing to do with it. He didn't score TDs under Henning, Daboll or Sherman. He's a good possession receiver who gets open in the middle of the field but he doesn't produce YAC and doesn't beat corners for big time catches. He dropped probably the same amount of TD passes as those overthrown by his QB (which happened to include 3 different QBs). You can't throw up lob passes to him and you better have Tom Brady throwing him the deep ball because he gets behind defenders maybe a couple times per game and the QB needs to be spot on. Even Matt Moore who had the best deep ball of any QB I can remember in a Miami uniform since 2000, had trouble connecting with him.

If Hartline is a "pretty good #2" then a WR needy team should have no problem paying him 6 million per year. That is about half of what very good #1's (Marshall, Jackson) are making.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:32 pm 
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StereoMike wrote:

My point was, yards are not meaningless you know, CJ got tackled inside the 2 yard line at least 6 times this season, and then the FB got the TD on the next play, so I guess the fullback is the real hero because he got the TD, even though Megatron got 60+ yards on the drive.

You have to look at the whole picture. I guess Jorvorskie Lane is a much better player than Hartline because he had more TDs...

That's what I meant by "the system". For some teams, as soon as you get inside the 5 yard line, the wideouts are out of the equation.
Hartline is a contributor, but IMO brings no special skills worth paying for, especially at that price. Sure he had 1K of Yds, but only because he was one of two. Miami had to throw the ball somewhere. Add on that almost one quarter of his yds came in 1 game & one third of his yds came in 2 games. Tell me everything I need to know. He will contribute. He had 10 games under 80 Yds.

Now saying that, if you have studs on the outside, Hartline should be able to kill a team as the No. 3, maybe No. 2.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:33 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:

Yup, Nelson is massively underpaid.

Take Rogers away & he isn't.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:32 am 
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I am already having nightmares that Belicheck snatches Hartline and/or Reggie Bush, plugs them in their high octane offense with Brady and then Miami get scorned twice a year for doing that!

If Miami can resign Hartline in the vicinity of $4million a year, jump on it, $6million as much as I want Hartline to stay, I am not so sure Miami should spend that much.

Same with Reggie Bush, get him back for sure, but at a reasonable price. Sean Smith....I say let him test the market for the huge contract as I don't believe he is worth it at this time.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:22 am 
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I'm fine with letting Hartline walk........we're going to pickup a top WR in FA and likely another in the draft.........that means Hartline will be competing with Reshard Mathews for the # 4 spot. You don't pay $5-6 mil for a # 4 receiver.

I think Smith will get what he's looking for in FA, he's a good cover corner and a lot of teams are in desperate need of secondary help. That being said, he's not what Philbin is looking for in a starting corner.......he's not physical and repeatedly misses opportunities to make interceptions.

Philbin emphasizes turnovers.........not just minimizing them on offense, but taking the ball away on defense. If you look at the Green Bay Packers in 2011 and 2010, those teams produced 31 and 24 interceptions, respectively. Compare that to the Dolphins who only had 10 interceptions in 2012.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:36 am 
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I hope we can keep Hartline but short of 6 mil a year. I think he makes a good number 2 receiver. It is possible that his game continues to improve. Not sure he has maxed out yet. Just my opinion.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:58 am 
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phinsfansc wrote:
'm fine with Hartline back at 4 mill/per year. As far a Jordy Nelson being underpaid, he probably is, but it is what it is.


I agree with both your points, Tony. I do hope that he will give the Dolphins a chance to match any offers put to him. I love his hands, feet placement, and ability to get open.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:04 am 
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I didn't mean to dismiss Hartline's talent, he's a very good receiver. He just hasn't proven to be a gamebreaker and I think he's replaceable. If you sign Mike Wallace, draft Keenan Allen, have Bess and Matthews, and grab a legit receiving TE then where is the need to overpay Hartline? Or if you want Jennings, draft either Patterson/Wheaton/Hamilton as your deep threat, and add the others then again, why overpay for him.

I agree he can be a reliable number 2, just seems like his type of production is replaceable if you find a polished route runner in the draft (which is why I mention Allen) or choose to upgrade to Jennings and draft a burner.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:45 pm 
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Hartline often was open for deep TD's. Captain check down and RT just didn't see him, or tended to under and overthrow him. Moore has much better touch and vision on the deep ball, but Marshall was the primary target.

Hartline has been solid his whole career. Letting him walk simply creates another darn hole in the roster. Stupid is as stupid does though.

Brady, Brees or Rivers would really help Hartline become a star. I think Hartline would be smart to go to a team that actually knows how to acquire and use talent.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:47 pm 
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FrustratedFinFan wrote:
Hartline often was open for deep TD's. Captain check down and RT just didn't see him, or tended to under and overthrow him. Moore has much better touch and vision on the deep ball, but Marshall was the primary target.

Hartline has been solid his whole career. Letting him walk simply creates another darn hole in the roster. Stupid is as stupid does though.

Brady, Brees or Rivers would really help Hartline become a star. I think Hartline would be smart to go to a team that actually knows how to acquire and use talent.



We all have our opinions on this board, you with yours. I'm not for paying Harline 6 mill/per year. I'd rather let him walk and sign both Wallace and Jennings or a Bowe and Jennings.

But that's me.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:32 pm 
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I would never in my life recommend throwing big money at two FA receivers. Not a chance.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:50 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
I would never in my life recommend throwing big money at two FA receivers. Not a chance.



You would if you were willing to pay Hartline 6 mill/per year and then sign another WR. Hartline is now a FA.

I have no problem letting Hartline walk and bring in a top line wide receiver in FA and then draft a couple of explosive wide receivers in the draft.

I think Hartline is a solid WR that put up nice numbers because the Dolphins had little at WR. I would be fine with 4 mill/per year for him.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:23 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
I would never in my life recommend throwing big money at two FA receivers. Not a chance.


If Miami inked Jennings and Wallace for 7 mil and 11 mil I'm pretty sure you'd be excited. Bess, Matthews and a third round WR prospect to develop. Leaves a lot of possibilities in the draft and gives Tannehill some great targets...no excuses.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:30 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
I would never in my life recommend throwing big money at two FA receivers. Not a chance.


If Miami inked Jennings and Wallace for 7 mil and 11 mil I'm pretty sure you'd be excited. Bess, Matthews and a third round WR prospect to develop. Leaves a lot of possibilities in the draft and gives Tannehill some great targets...no excuses.


$18 million for 2 guys? There's going to reprecussions cap-wise down the road because of that.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:58 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
jammer wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
I would never in my life recommend throwing big money at two FA receivers. Not a chance.


If Miami inked Jennings and Wallace for 7 mil and 11 mil I'm pretty sure you'd be excited. Bess, Matthews and a third round WR prospect to develop. Leaves a lot of possibilities in the draft and gives Tannehill some great targets...no excuses.


$18 million for 2 guys? There's going to reprecussions cap-wise down the road because of that.


I realize it sounds nuts but Ireland doesnt seem to have a lot of rope for his future. You need immediate contributors to help your young QB.

I wrote in another post that I don't see Miami re-signing most of their guys. I only see Fasano, Clemons and Garner coming back at modest deals. Starks might get re-signed unless someone offers him a ridiculous deal.

Theoretically, if you signed those two (and I agree it is probably about 5% chance) you'd be able to spend your first 4 picks on DE, CB, OT and TE (not in that order).

Miami has done such a bad job for so long they have to make some risky moves.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:37 pm 
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I would let them walk as well rather than overpaying for them. As nice players as they are , that is the problem. They are nice , not elite , not great and not a #1 at their positions. In fact since every excuse around here on why our QB's have failed is lack of talent around them & maybe there lies the problem. Just having nice players gives you a nice record like 7-9 or 8-8 which gets you not so nice draft picks.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:48 am 
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Seems like finding a serviceable WR to work with this team has been difficult, so I dont feel comfortable letting the best WR on the team go two years in a row and think its not going to matter.

They dont resign Hartline then may as well break the bank for Wallace and/or Jennings, because if you think they can just grab a few picks and be ok I feel its going to be a rude awakening..

We have a rook QB that has that kind of chemistry right off the bat with a WR, I think his value to us should be far higher than any other team. They need to figure a way to keep him happy as far as I am concerned. 5 - 6 years, 25 - 30 mil range seems fair. Cant say I see him getting that elsewhere anyway. Start getting cheaper tho and I can see a team snatching him up.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Some of you think it is as simple as "lets just sign a Bowe, Jennings, or Wallace." First, all 3 of those players may not even be available.They could get resigned to their own teams or possibly franchised tagged. Second, there will definitely be plenty of teams looking to sign those players as well. We are not the only team in need of their talents. Third, Jeff Ireland already has a bad rep and the Dolphins team is not a playoff team right now and those players will be looking to play for contenders. Money does talk, but it is not always everything in these negotiations.

Sign Hartline, sign Smith, and sign Bush. Keep the little talent that you do have.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:05 pm 
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TheCarver13 wrote:
Some of you think it is as simple as "lets just sign a Bowe, Jennings, or Wallace." First, all 3 of those players may not even be available.They could get resigned to their own teams or possibly franchised tagged. Second, there will definitely be plenty of teams looking to sign those players as well. We are not the only team in need of their talents. Third, Jeff Ireland already has a bad rep and the Dolphins team is not a playoff team right now and those players will be looking to play for contenders. Money does talk, but it is not always everything in these negotiations.

Sign Hartline, sign Smith, and sign Bush. Keep the little talent that you do have.


Stop making so much sense!!

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