View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:19 am



Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 
 Defense wins Championship? 
Author Message
Phinfever Hall of Famer
Phinfever Hall of Famer

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:17 pm
Posts: 781
Post Defense wins Championship?
Here is why we should use 8 out of our 10 picks on offense.....defense is not what it used to be and ours is good enough to make the Super Bowl!

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sport ... -of/nTxkb/


Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:59 pm
Profile
Phinfever Legend
Phinfever Legend
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:48 pm
Posts: 5487
Post Re: Defense wins Championship?
You still need "playmakers" on defense for those moments when you need key stops and forced turnovers. It's not just about yards/points.

_________________
Image


Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:05 pm
Profile
Phinfever Global Moderator
Phinfever Global Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 7532
Location: Massachusetts
Post Re: Defense wins Championship?
Our defense is not championship caliber.

It's not about yards given up. It's about the number of big plays made. And right now, we're near the bottom of the league in that category.


Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:13 pm
Profile
Phinfever Hall of Famer
Phinfever Hall of Famer

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:17 pm
Posts: 781
Post Re: Defense wins Championship?
Phins Rock wrote:
Our defense is not championship caliber.

It's not about yards given up. It's about the number of big plays made. And right now, we're near the bottom of the league in that category.


So what Defense left in the playoffs is Championship level? Green Bay was one game away from the NFC championship and their D was horrible!


Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:33 pm
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21117
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Defense wins Championship?
Phins Rock wrote:
Our defense is not championship caliber.

It's not about yards given up. It's about the number of big plays made. And right now, we're near the bottom of the league in that category.


INT Rankings

19. Atlanta
22-t. Miami
26-t. Baltimore
29. New England
30-t. San Francisco

Recovered Fumble Rankings

8-t. Miami
19-t. San Francisco
25. New England
29. Baltimore
30-t. Atlanta

Sacks Rankings

9-t. San Francisco
13. Baltimore
14-t. Miami
25-t. Atlanta
27-t. New England

_________________
Image


Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:59 pm
Profile
Phinfever All Pro
Phinfever All Pro
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:36 am
Posts: 321
Location: Scarborough, Maine
Post Re: Defense wins Championship?
Our defense is championship caliber. Improve our offense and our defense will look even better.


Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:45 pm
Profile
Phinfever All Pro
Phinfever All Pro
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:36 am
Posts: 321
Location: Scarborough, Maine
Post Re: Defense wins Championship?
We were 27th in average time of possession:

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/av ... -net-of-ot

Atlanta 9th
N.E. 12th
Baltimore 30th
S.F. 4th

21st in 3rd down conversions

N.E. 1st
Atlanta 7th
S.F. 25th
Baltimore 15th

scoring defense we were 7th

N.E. 9th
Baltimore 12th
S.F. 3rd
Atlanta 4th

Total defense we were 20th
Baltimore 21st
N.E. 26th
S.F. 2nd
Atlanta 24th


Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:59 pm
Profile
Phinfever Global Moderator
Phinfever Global Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 7532
Location: Massachusetts
Post Re: Defense wins Championship?
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Our defense is not championship caliber.

It's not about yards given up. It's about the number of big plays made. And right now, we're near the bottom of the league in that category.


INT Rankings

19. Atlanta
22-t. Miami
26-t. Baltimore
29. New England
30-t. San Francisco

Recovered Fumble Rankings

8-t. Miami
19-t. San Francisco
25. New England
29. Baltimore
30-t. Atlanta

Sacks Rankings

9-t. San Francisco
13. Baltimore
14-t. Miami
25-t. Atlanta
27-t. New England


Those stats are incorrect, Rich. Those are "opponents" defensive stats...so how many turnovers/sacks were given up by Miami's offense, not created by their defense. They were tied for 25th with 6 recovered fumbles. They were 27th in interceptions also, but were 7th in sacks.

Miami was 29th in the NFL in creating turnovers.

The Patriots were 2nd in the NFL in creating turnovers.
Atlanta was 5th.
Surprisingly Baltimore and SF were much lower, tied for 15th.

Offense wins championships, but defensively you have to be more than just "solid."...It's about creating big plays.


Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:26 pm
Profile
Phinfever Draft Insider
Phinfever Draft Insider
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:14 pm
Posts: 3410
Location: Columbia, SC
Post Re: Defense wins Championship?
The Dolphins in my opinion are close to being a top caliber defensive team. Yes, the secondary has to get better and another pass rusher is needed.

But the most important stat to me and a lot of other people are points allowed. Miami ranked 7th in points allowed giving up 19.8 points a game.

So while I agree that more picks should go towards the offense, I am not in favor of going for an 8-2 ratio. I think more along the line of 7-3 or 6-4 ratio.

_________________
Image


Last edited by phinsfansc on Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:49 pm
Profile
2014 Phinfever VIP!
2014 Phinfever VIP!

Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:52 am
Posts: 6067
Location: Lancaster, PA
Post Re: Defense wins Championship?
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Our defense is not championship caliber.

It's not about yards given up. It's about the number of big plays made. And right now, we're near the bottom of the league in that category.


INT Rankings

19. Atlanta
22-t. Miami
26-t. Baltimore
29. New England
30-t. San Francisco

Recovered Fumble Rankings

8-t. Miami
19-t. San Francisco
25. New England
29. Baltimore
30-t. Atlanta

Sacks Rankings

9-t. San Francisco
13. Baltimore
14-t. Miami
25-t. Atlanta
27-t. New England



Wow look at that. Very nice research Rich.


Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:22 am
Profile
Phinfever Blog Writer
Phinfever Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:43 pm
Posts: 4507
Location: Wellington, FL
Post Re: Defense wins Championship?
I would just like to point out that over the last 12 or so years we have boasted some very tough defensive units, being in the top 10 most of the time under guys like JJ, Wanny and Satan.

I dont remember any Championships

_________________
Caveat: These are the opinions of this user, and may differ from your opinion. Please use common sense before taking offense.
Reply may contain sarcasm


Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:54 am
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21117
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Defense wins Championship?
Phins Rock wrote:
Those stats are incorrect, Rich. Those are "opponents" defensive stats...so how many turnovers/sacks were given up by Miami's offense, not created by their defense. They were tied for 25th with 6 recovered fumbles. They were 27th in interceptions also, but were 7th in sacks.

Miami was 29th in the NFL in creating turnovers.

The Patriots were 2nd in the NFL in creating turnovers.
Atlanta was 5th.
Surprisingly Baltimore and SF were much lower, tied for 15th.

Offense wins championships, but defensively you have to be more than just "solid."...It's about creating big plays.


You're right, ESPN's stat section sucks.

Still, from a pass rush perspective we're right up there.

What we need is a playmaker in the secondary. Our defense is not that far. It could use a considerable amount of help from our offense. A team like NE is high up in creating turnovers because teams have to go pass happy to compete with them since they score so much on offense.

_________________
Image


Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:30 am
Profile
Phinfever Hall of Famer
Phinfever Hall of Famer

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:17 pm
Posts: 781
Post Re: Defense wins Championship?
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Those stats are incorrect, Rich. Those are "opponents" defensive stats...so how many turnovers/sacks were given up by Miami's offense, not created by their defense. They were tied for 25th with 6 recovered fumbles. They were 27th in interceptions also, but were 7th in sacks.

Miami was 29th in the NFL in creating turnovers.

The Patriots were 2nd in the NFL in creating turnovers.
Atlanta was 5th.
Surprisingly Baltimore and SF were much lower, tied for 15th.

Offense wins championships, but defensively you have to be more than just "solid."...It's about creating big plays.


You're right, ESPN's stat section sucks.

Still, from a pass rush perspective we're right up there.

What we need is a playmaker in the secondary. Our defense is not that far. It could use a considerable amount of help from our offense. A team like NE is high up in creating turnovers because teams have to go pass happy to compete with them since they score so much on offense.


Totally agree! that's why this draft and FA needs to be offense heavy....I actually don't think we need to break the bank in FA either, Wallace should be our most exspensive pickup.
I also think we need to get either Cook (Tenn) or Bennett (NYG) along with a solid Guard or Tackle in FA....whichever one we don't get in FA we find in the draft.


Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:03 am
Profile
Phinfever Global Moderator
Phinfever Global Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 7532
Location: Massachusetts
Post Re: Defense wins Championship?
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Those stats are incorrect, Rich. Those are "opponents" defensive stats...so how many turnovers/sacks were given up by Miami's offense, not created by their defense. They were tied for 25th with 6 recovered fumbles. They were 27th in interceptions also, but were 7th in sacks.

Miami was 29th in the NFL in creating turnovers.

The Patriots were 2nd in the NFL in creating turnovers.
Atlanta was 5th.
Surprisingly Baltimore and SF were much lower, tied for 15th.

Offense wins championships, but defensively you have to be more than just "solid."...It's about creating big plays.


You're right, ESPN's stat section sucks.

Still, from a pass rush perspective we're right up there.

What we need is a playmaker in the secondary. Our defense is not that far. It could use a considerable amount of help from our offense. A team like NE is high up in creating turnovers because teams have to go pass happy to compete with them since they score so much on offense.


Those sack numbers are misleading though. We all saw how much they struggled to put pressure on the QB with 4 man rushes. I think adding a big time rusher opposite Wake would do more for the secondary and the amount of plays they make than another CB would.

Add a dynamic rusher like Houston, SF, Denver, Seattle, etc have the last 2 years and I think the impact is huge. Now your corners and safeties are being more aggressive, you can play coverage while still getting after the passer, your LB's potentially have more rush lanes when you do blitz...A DE turns the guys you already have into playmakers by allowing them to be in more positions to make big plays.


Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:29 am
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21117
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Defense wins Championship?
Phins Rock wrote:
Those sack numbers are misleading though. We all saw how much they struggled to put pressure on the QB with 4 man rushes.


I don't agree with this, I saw marked improvement as the season went on.

Where are the Dolphins ranked as a team as far as hurries?

_________________
Image


Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:17 pm
Profile
Phinfever Global Moderator
Phinfever Global Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 7532
Location: Massachusetts
Post Re: Defense wins Championship?
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Those sack numbers are misleading though. We all saw how much they struggled to put pressure on the QB with 4 man rushes.


I don't agree with this, I saw marked improvement as the season went on.

Where are the Dolphins ranked as a team as far as hurries?


They had 155 hurries as a team according to Pro Football Focus. (not sure how accurate of a stat this will be, because if 2 players get a hurry on the same play, this will count as 2 hurries).

The other teams in the top 10 in sacks:

Denver - 172 hurries
St. Louis - 158
Cincinnati - 187
Green Bay - 155
Houston - 166
Minnesota - 188
Chicago - 192
Carolina - 155
Tennessee - 168

So Miami was tied for the lowest amount out of those teams, although only 3-4 of those teams were significantly ahead, depending on what you would consider significant.

Odrick and Starks each had 21 hurries (not sure how many from Odrick came as DT vs DE). Wake had 48. After those 3, Vernon had 11, Soliai 8, etc.

But no consistency opposite Wake is what I'm getting at. Odrick and Starks as a combo in the middle is fine, and Vernon is a nice role player. But adding a dynamic rusher opposite Wake would be huge.


Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:15 pm
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21117
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Defense wins Championship?
Phins Rock wrote:
But no consistency opposite Wake is what I'm getting at. Odrick and Starks as a combo in the middle is fine, and Vernon is a nice role player. But adding a dynamic rusher opposite Wake would be huge.


I get what you're getting at and I agree which is why I think we should go DE in round 1 given the depth of talent at the position.

But even with a better pass rush, guys like Sean Smith and Nolan Carroll aren't all of a sudden going to get 8 picks.

Also, the Dolphins sack number would have been higher with better coverage. It works both ways.

_________________
Image


Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:18 pm
Profile
Phinfever Global Moderator
Phinfever Global Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 7532
Location: Massachusetts
Post Re: Defense wins Championship?
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
But no consistency opposite Wake is what I'm getting at. Odrick and Starks as a combo in the middle is fine, and Vernon is a nice role player. But adding a dynamic rusher opposite Wake would be huge.


I get what you're getting at and I agree which is why I think we should go DE in round 1 given the depth of talent at the position.

But even with a better pass rush, guys like Sean Smith and Nolan Carroll aren't all of a sudden going to get 8 picks.

Also, the Dolphins sack number would have been higher with better coverage. It works both ways.


We're on the same page then.

I agree that CB isn't good enough the way it is. But I think pass rusher comes before the secondary, so I think DE needs to be prioritized. If you've got a chance to attack CB, whether in Free Agency with a guy like Sam Shields, or in the draft, great. But I wouldn't sacrifice a DE to get a CB.

But it's not just adding sacks. It's pressuring the QB, getting him to throw the ball earlier, rush throws, feel uncomfortable, feel like he has to get outside the pocket, etc. etc. An elite pass rush makes everything easier on your secondary and allows the back end and your play caller to be more aggressive.

SF went from 2nd to last in the NFC to 1st in the league in turnovers the year they drafted Aldon Smith.


Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:35 pm
Profile
2014 Phinfever VIP!
2014 Phinfever VIP!

Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:52 am
Posts: 6067
Location: Lancaster, PA
Post Re: Defense wins Championship?
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Those sack numbers are misleading though. We all saw how much they struggled to put pressure on the QB with 4 man rushes.


I don't agree with this, I saw marked improvement as the season went on.

Where are the Dolphins ranked as a team as far as hurries?


I would like to have 2 dominating pass rushers. Teams would fear us on a weekly basis.


Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:39 pm
Profile
Phinfever Blog Writer
Phinfever Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:43 pm
Posts: 4507
Location: Wellington, FL
Post Re: Defense wins Championship?
We are one of the worst scoring and passing teams in the League, we are 17th in rushing. There is no offense, its soft. Sorry but as far as I am concerned if they do not address that this off season hard and heavy we will find ourselves in similar situations next year.

People saying get better defense.. Our offense avg 18 points per game.. YUCK... Our defense allowed 19.. WOW...
So if our offense was just a little better, those two stats tell me we win more games.


I mean we have 5 picks between 12 - 82.
Should be able to add play makers to both sides really. WR, OT/G DE/T, DB (not in any order) and still have a pick left....

_________________
Caveat: These are the opinions of this user, and may differ from your opinion. Please use common sense before taking offense.
Reply may contain sarcasm


Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:54 pm
Profile
Phinfever Legend
Phinfever Legend
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:30 am
Posts: 2295
Post Re: Defense wins Championship?
WR first, then DE and CB. Our offense needs play makers....bring in Bowe and add a speedy WR in the draft.

_________________
Image
Philbin's countenance exudes confidence!
1984 was so long ago...Will there ever be another rainbow?


Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:40 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 21 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007, 2010 phpBB Group.
Designed by Coots & IamPZ - Phinfever.com.