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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:26 pm 
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zatrex99 wrote:
Jenny57 wrote:
Rich wrote:
That website is owned by Fox News. I win the argument!!

Is climate change man-made?


LOL, this is how you win arguments on this site. Just declare yourself the winner.

I'll answer your question. I don't think we affect it as much as we think we might and we don't understand exactly how our climate works.

But you should keep your passion and keep crusading on this. You only want to make the world a better place and the world could use more people like you.

Thanks. I just can't comprehend why if scientists are saying we need to change or drastic things will happen, that people just stick their noses up like they know better. Like I've said, even they are wrong, shouldn't we at least TRY to avoid devastation? Isn't that the logic of some Christians...that if there is a God it's better to play it safe because there's no harm in believing in a God if he doesnt exist? If there is even a tiny chance that overpopulation and consumption spells the end for hundreds of thousands of specieis, including humans, shouldn't we do something to stop it?
Even if it is a hoax, nobody gets hurt by reducing your carbon footprint and lobbying for renewable energy. It's mind boggling.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:53 pm 
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Jenny57 wrote:
zatrex99 wrote:
Jenny57 wrote:
Rich wrote:
That website is owned by Fox News. I win the argument!!

Is climate change man-made?


LOL, this is how you win arguments on this site. Just declare yourself the winner.

I'll answer your question. I don't think we affect it as much as we think we might and we don't understand exactly how our climate works.

But you should keep your passion and keep crusading on this. You only want to make the world a better place and the world could use more people like you.

Thanks. I just can't comprehend why if scientists are saying we need to change or drastic things will happen, that people just stick their noses up like they know better. Like I've said, even they are wrong, shouldn't we at least TRY to avoid devastation? Isn't that the logic of some Christians...that if there is a God it's better to play it safe because there's no harm in believing in a God if he doesnt exist? If there is even a tiny chance that overpopulation and consumption spells the end for hundreds of thousands of specieis, including humans, shouldn't we do something to stop it?
Even if it is a hoax, nobody gets hurt by reducing your carbon footprint and lobbying for renewable energy. It's mind boggling.


You're absolutely correct. And let me qualify myself by saying this is way out of my expertise, but I can understand the argument and the opposition you face. We do affect our climate in ways that we can't understand or quantify until the results make themselves known. I can say I lived in Ohio until 2yrs ago and we had some of the worst winters I can remember since the blizzard in 79 the past 5yrs, so it's hard to believe to believe in Global Warming. Yet, that can be an effect of it perversely enough.

It's hard for people to take it seriously when it doesn't affect them or when it does, it's so gradual, they get use to it easily enough. It may be our grandchildrens' grandchildren that see the devastating affects. Not a legacy I'd like to leave behind.

Keep crusading, you need to. Eventually people will start to listen. Sounds like Hilary has.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:52 pm 
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Jenny57 wrote:
Rich wrote:
That website is owned by Fox News. I win the argument!!

Is climate change man-made?


I don't dismiss the possibility that it is, in part. I also don't discount the possibility that other factors we do not understand affect it, perhaps more than humans.

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Last edited by Rich on Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:53 pm 
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zatrex99 wrote:
But you should keep your passion and keep crusading on this. You only want to make the world a better place and the world could use more people like you.


I think the last thing the world needs is people who want to brow beat others into thinking like them. We have enough of that already.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:00 pm 
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Jenny57 wrote:
Even if it is a hoax, nobody gets hurt by reducing your carbon footprint and lobbying for renewable energy. It's mind boggling.


So there is no economic impact to moving from a cheaper source of energy to a more expensive, less efficient one?

I provided the example before of putting LED light bulbs throughout my house. I know, it's a small effort in a world with billions of people. But each LED bulb cost me a lot more than incandescent. And the savings in my electrical bill is minimal because at the end of the day, most of the electric used is for the HVAC. So I invested a lot of money to buy more efficient light bulbs and my return on investment was almost nothing. That being said, I still insist on buying LED bulbs. They last forever, but not everyone can afford to switch to LED.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:06 pm 
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Rich wrote:
zatrex99 wrote:
But you should keep your passion and keep crusading on this. You only want to make the world a better place and the world could use more people like you.


I think the last thing the world needs is people who want to brow beat others into thinking like them. We have enough of that already.


I can excuse a little excess passion when this is what they want to do/be a part of:

Quote:
Here's the thing; for argument's sake, let's suppose for half a second that the less than 1% of scientists, and all the witch hunting zealots on the right are correct: climate change is not man made. But, for some reason, mankind goes to 100% renewable energy, eliminates waste by 98% and is able not just reduce CO2 output but INCREASE oxygen output. Let's say that happens. And turns out the climate is still the same. Is there anything bad that happens in that scenario? Is it so bad to have those things if for no other reason than to have ever lasting and cheaper energy?

I mean, other than not wanting to take responsibility, what is the point of arguing against man made climate change and mass extinction?


Hard to argue against those intentions. :yay:


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:49 pm 
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I am also in the process of getting solar panels on my home. But I am about to give up. It is extremely cost prohibitive, even with the tax breaks.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:31 am 
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The climate has been changing in cycles since the earth was made, to say that we're responsible for it is pretty naïve. Billions of years of hot/cold cycles (4.something) and we've been around for what? 200k years or so? These things come around in cycles ranging between 40k and 100k years or so. All without any human intervention of any kind. So glaciers will expand and retreat all by themselves. So when ice sheets start falling off Antarctica, it's not the end of the world. It's a natural progression of the earth which is literally "breathing" if you will.

That said, am I in the boat of "lets burn everything eff it?" No absolutely not, I think we have a responsibility to be good stewards of the land we inhabit. I'm not losing sleep over any of this like some of the "OMG the world is going to end if we don't do something" crowd. It's not. Another ice age will come, there will be famin and massive population loss, and the world will go on. The best part, we will have had nothing to do with it, nor will we be able to do anything about it.

PS. Sorry for getting in late, I'm in another hemisphere and you guys stay up passed by bedtime :p
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:39 am 
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Ski_Money wrote:
to say that we're responsible for it is pretty naïve.

It's naive to believe the world's top scientists and obvious studies that show we are, in fact, causing a global warming?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:41 am 
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Rich wrote:
Jenny57 wrote:
Rich wrote:
That website is owned by Fox News. I win the argument!!

Is climate change man-made?


I don't dismiss the possibility that it is, in part. I also don't discount the possibility that other factors we do not understand affect it, perhaps more than humans.

Well, regardless of whatever that other magical, mysterious force is that we couldn't possibly understand, don't you find it selfish for individuals to think that, despite all of the data and evidence, their actions have no impact and they are free to continue how they have even if it does destroy the planet for future human use?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:14 am 
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The world's top scientist said the earth was flat at one time. They also called him global warming and have since changed their tune. If I have to put a man on the moon, I'll grab some scientists. When it comes to mother nature, they can take a hike because there is more at play on this world than even the best minds can possibly fathom.

Be responsible stewards, don't waste, don't trash, but don't run scared either. I'm sure there are better, cleaner, safer ways of doing business when it comes to energy and deforrestation, but until it becomes economical to do it different, what you see is what you get. Hell, we could have been 100% nuclear by now if not for the tree huggers, in stead we are still burning coal, oil etc. Energy has to come from somewhere at a size and scale that can feed the world. Wind won't do it in it's current form, solar won't either. You would have to deforrest the earth for wind/solar farms to do it.

Pick yer poison.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:10 am 
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Jenny57 wrote:
Well, regardless of whatever that other magical, mysterious force is that we couldn't possibly understand


So scientists know it all and are always right?

Quote:
don't you find it selfish for individuals to think that, despite all of the data and evidence, their actions have no impact and they are free to continue how they have even if it does destroy the planet for future human use?


I also find it selfish and unscientific that when scientists come up with new data that counters their data, the scientists pushing the climate change agenda try to get them shut down and ostracized, even if the study is peer-reviewed. If you are so sure about your findings, why do you need to steamroll any dissent? I also find it interesting that the politicians and actors that most promote this theory, and that is what it still is, are the ones that seem to consume the most fossil fuels.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:14 am 
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Roy Spencer is one of the world's top scientists. He is a foremost climatologist and former NASA scientist.

Here are his credentials:

Quote:
Roy W. Spencer received his Ph.D. in meteorology at the University of Wisconsin-Madison in 1981. Before becoming a Principal Research Scientist at the University of Alabama in Huntsville in 2001, he was a Senior Scientist for Climate Studies at NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center, where he and Dr. John Christy received NASA’s Exceptional Scientific Achievement Medal for their global temperature monitoring work with satellites. Dr. Spencer’s work with NASA continues as the U.S. Science Team leader for the Advanced Microwave Scanning Radiometer flying on NASA’s Aqua satellite. He has provided congressional testimony several times on the subject of global warming.

Dr. Spencer’s research has been entirely supported by U.S. government agencies: NASA, NOAA, and DOE. He has never been asked by any oil company to perform any kind of service. Not even Exxon-Mobil.


And his take on global warming.

http://www.drroyspencer.com/global-warm ... r-manmade/

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:51 am 
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Here are 30 peer-reviewed climate papers co-authored by Dr. Spencer.

http://www.drroyspencer.com/research-articles/

Despite his skepticism, he is highly regarded and has even been called to testify before Congress multiple times on the issue, by both Democrats and Republicans.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:31 am 
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Jenny57 wrote:
zatrex99 wrote:
Jenny57 wrote:
Rich wrote:
That website is owned by Fox News. I win the argument!!

Is climate change man-made?


LOL, this is how you win arguments on this site. Just declare yourself the winner.

I'll answer your question. I don't think we affect it as much as we think we might and we don't understand exactly how our climate works.

But you should keep your passion and keep crusading on this. You only want to make the world a better place and the world could use more people like you.

Thanks. I just can't comprehend why if scientists are saying we need to change or drastic things will happen, that people just stick their noses up like they know better. Like I've said, even they are wrong, shouldn't we at least TRY to avoid devastation? Isn't that the logic of some Christians...that if there is a God it's better to play it safe because there's no harm in believing in a God if he doesnt exist? If there is even a tiny chance that overpopulation and consumption spells the end for hundreds of thousands of specieis, including humans, shouldn't we do something to stop it?
Even if it is a hoax, nobody gets hurt by reducing your carbon footprint and lobbying for renewable energy. It's mind boggling.

Except the poor who can't afford energy generated by more expensive means. You want true green energy, then lobby for Nuclear.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:34 am 
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On deforestation...it is also a myth. http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilder ... o-its-true


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:37 am 
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I don't dismiss the deforestation argument outright because of what is happening in Brazil. Maybe we are doing a good in America of adding trees into the ecosystem to help balance things out. But I am not so sure that is the case in the rainforest.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:23 am 
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Overpopulation is the biggest issue but people are too elevated on their high horse to admit it. People need to die folks.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:12 am 
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It use to be called Global Warming and now that the world isn't warming it's called climate change. In '05 florida got hit by several hurricanes and we were told this is going to be the norm cause of CO2. Low and behold it's been 11 years since Fl got hit by a hurricane. Now, true or false the world is polluted and saving energy and looking for cleaner energy solutions is still a good idea. The water in the gulf of mexico is disgusting cause of pollution and construction. Mangroves are being destroyed and tampa bay is a cess pool


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:20 pm 
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Jenny57 wrote:
Thanks. I just can't comprehend why if scientists are saying we need to change or drastic things will happen, that people just stick their noses up like they know better.


That isn't always the case. When politicians constantly beat you down with information that they say is settled (when really nothing is settled on either side) and you read about both those politicians and their friends cashing in it creates skepticism.

There seems to be a lot of money to be made here, not just some noble quest to save the planet. If this information has been out there for decades why haven't these "caring" politicians pushed it sooner.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:32 pm 
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AQNOR wrote:
ISIS arose because of global warming.


Who said that?

:haha

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:36 pm 
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Jenny57 wrote:
why don't you man the #@&% up and discuss climate change or shut the #@&% up. Idgaf that you're so insecure on your position that you need me to bend over for you. Just say it or shut up.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:43 pm 
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:) :) :) :) :)

Jenny, and you wonder why men can't stand feminists.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:33 pm 
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Rich wrote:
zatrex99 wrote:
But you should keep your passion and keep crusading on this. You only want to make the world a better place and the world could use more people like you.


I think the last thing the world needs is people who want to brow beat others into thinking like them. We have enough of that already.


Yeah, so okay, maybe I was wrong on this one. You made yourself available to discuss it, were amendable to actually listening to her and she doesn't take you up on it. :hithead:

It is true the clean energy just isn't there yet, that it's not affordable or even really feasible. But someday, some company is going to hit the jackpot on it. Maybe not in our lifetime.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:18 pm 
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zatrex99 wrote:
Yeah, so okay, maybe I was wrong on this one. You made yourself available to discuss it, were amendable to actually listening to her and she doesn't take you up on it.


I'm glad you noticed that too.

Some people are interested in listening and exchanging ideas. Other people are interested in completely ignoring what you're saying, insulting you and then wondering why you're so darn stupid and haven't changed your mind.

Jenny is the latter.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:21 pm 
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Rich wrote:
zatrex99 wrote:
Yeah, so okay, maybe I was wrong on this one. You made yourself available to discuss it, were amendable to actually listening to her and she doesn't take you up on it.


I'm glad you noticed that too.

Some people are interested in listening and exchanging ideas. Other people are interested in completely ignoring what you're saying, insulting you and then wondering why you're so darn stupid and haven't changed your mind.


Apparently, though it's sad.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:51 pm 
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Certain time of month?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:51 pm 
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It is a full moon here in Tampa.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:56 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
Certain time of month?

Sexist!


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