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 Post subject: Donald Trump.........
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:07 am 
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LOL.......

This guy is one for the books. He's leading polls by a huge margin but its not going to last. He was refreshing at first , but he's shown with the whole McCain deal that he does not have an once of diplomatic skill in his ego driven body. Could you imagine a guy with his temperament in the international community? he is so used to getting his way and running over anyone that doesn't say yes sir to him.

Even as you go through life as a normal Joey bag of doughnuts, you cant just speak your mind with no filter. You need to use common sense . I can just see him sitting with the Queen of England and saying.......Hi, man your getting Fat huh?

This is going to be an interesting year........strap in and use the vomit bag if necessary. :hithead:

And if the republicans do not get there crap together welcome to another 4 years of Hillary and her crap.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:03 pm 
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His campaign was over before it started. Part of leading is being an effective communicator (obviously not the only part, otherwise Obama would be a huge success).

Trump is a bully who doesn't understand that when you say something you need to consider it is going to be turned into a 5 second sound bite. His comments regarding immigrants made him non-viable in my opinion.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:49 pm 
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I may not have voted for him, but John McCain is a better man than Trump could ever hope to be.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:23 pm 
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I think people are just really really frustrated with this current administration. So anything anti Obama is getting percentage points. But I hope it chills out because I really want to start focusing on who is going to run and the issues. We already know Hillary is in.

All this crap surrounding the primaries is pissing me off because I really cant deal with another 4 years of this crap going on. Our Police are not the enemy. Silly flags are not the problems facing minorities. My medical costs have tripled since Obama was reelected . If some balance isn't brought back this next election with a strong leader we are is serious trouble.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:21 am 
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MiamiMenace wrote:
Our Police are not the enemy.


Not so sure about that. Too many go into police work because they want to be on a power trip.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:57 am 
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Rich wrote:
MiamiMenace wrote:
Our Police are not the enemy.


Not so sure about that. Too many go into police work because they want to be on a power trip.


What makes you say that? Is it what you are presented in the media or do you have actual experience with police?

In my entire 49 yrs I have had only one official interaction with police (not counting traffic stops) and that was when my car was stolen in 87'. I had to call them. No doubt there are some bad cops. But the good ones far far out weigh the bad ones. You have bad Doctors that get sued every day. Bad teachers that bang students. Bad people in every type of employment you can think of. The percentage of bad priests far outweigh the bad cops. But for some reason they never get any press..........

Being a cop is no power trip. They have to deal with things you couldn't imagine sometimes on a daily basis. Its problem solving to the max. They deserve our respect. At the very least I thought the president of the united States and the Attorney general would. What is this country without Law and order? Without respect for the people that help keep us safe? hell it took the white house 5 days to finally put the flags at half staff for those servicemen killed in Tenn. And even then it was under pressure. Didn't take them long to paint the house in rainbow colors or send staff to the Funerals of Felons.

Its disgraceful on every level. And I want a new candidate that is above all of that. that serves EVERYONE. We are a laughingstock at this point divided down the line of two parties who cant even agree on whats right or wrong anymore.

When did the police get on the wrong side of a political party? That's something both sides should be able to agree on . Its disgraceful the way police and our military are being represented and represented as of late. Heck the writing was on the wall a few months into Obama's first presidency when he called the Cambridge police "stupid" for trying to protect the property of a verbally abusive professor who was also Obamas" friend". How he got re'elected I don't know. But here we are. And Hillary will just continue that same train down the tracks and Mr Trump god bless him.......is helping . He's everything wrong with what this country needs on the other side of the spectrum.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:45 am 
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Rich wrote:
MiamiMenace wrote:
Our Police are not the enemy.


Not so sure about that. Too many go into police work because they want to be on a power trip.



Like any profession, there are some bad people in it. Each media driven case needs to be investigated. Some will turn out to be more noise than anything and some will show the cops were wrong.

It has to be this way: Cops are trusted with our public safety.

As for MiamiMenace's experience with cops, that is all well and fine.

However, I wouldn't deny that historically cops haven't exactly treated African Americans equally.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:12 pm 
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MiamiMenace wrote:
Rich wrote:
MiamiMenace wrote:
Our Police are not the enemy.


Not so sure about that. Too many go into police work because they want to be on a power trip.


What makes you say that? Is it what you are presented in the media or do you have actual experience with police?

In my entire 49 yrs I have had only one official interaction with police (not counting traffic stops) and that was when my car was stolen in 87'. I had to call them. No doubt there are some bad cops. But the good ones far far out weigh the bad ones. You have bad Doctors that get sued every day. Bad teachers that bang students. Bad people in every type of employment you can think of. The percentage of bad priests far outweigh the bad cops. But for some reason they never get any press..........

Being a cop is no power trip. They have to deal with things you couldn't imagine sometimes on a daily basis. Its problem solving to the max. They deserve our respect. At the very least I thought the president of the united States and the Attorney general would. What is this country without Law and order? Without respect for the people that help keep us safe? hell it took the white house 5 days to finally put the flags at half staff for those servicemen killed in Tenn. And even then it was under pressure. Didn't take them long to paint the house in rainbow colors or send staff to the Funerals of Felons.

Its disgraceful on every level. And I want a new candidate that is above all of that. that serves EVERYONE. We are a laughingstock at this point divided down the line of two parties who cant even agree on whats right or wrong anymore.

When did the police get on the wrong side of a political party? That's something both sides should be able to agree on . Its disgraceful the way police and our military are being represented and represented as of late. Heck the writing was on the wall a few months into Obama's first presidency when he called the Cambridge police "stupid" for trying to protect the property of a verbally abusive professor who was also Obamas" friend". How he got re'elected I don't know. But here we are. And Hillary will just continue that same train down the tracks and Mr Trump god bless him.......is helping . He's everything wrong with what this country needs on the other side of the spectrum.


Someone's got a little repressed anger on a rather benign comment.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:39 pm 
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Cathal wrote:
Someone's got a little repressed anger on a rather benign comment.


Not really. Having interacted with Rich on the matter I know where he is coming from, but at face value that comment seems like a pretty big generalization. I just know Rich is speaking on some personal experience.

My father was a high ranking officer and I have many friends in law enforcement. I've seen what they deal with firsthand and MiamiMenace makes some valid points. Its easy to criticize and play MMQB against the men and women who volunteer for job that involves risk. There are bad apples, like 1984 pointed out, so I'm not going to pretend all police are perfect. But there is no question there general reputation has been tarnished and in several instances unfairly.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:03 pm 
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I've been in a few discussions with Rich and that comment is one of his less attack worthy statements. :) But yes, I agree it's a generalization that probably doesn't accurately describe the realities. The current crop of issues just highlight what you are saying, which is police departments have had their image tarnished, some, rightfully so.

But anyway, this is a thread about Trump and his silly attempt at becoming President. I kinda agree with The Onion in that I want to see how far this goes, but at the same time, I just can't believe there are that many people out there that actually support him. His bombastic attitude sure isn't going to get any diplomacy points in the foreign arena. This has to just be a PR stunt or an ego-booster for him. When Fox News says you should probably apologize and take back what you said, you know you're way out there.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:33 pm 
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MiamiMenace wrote:
What makes you say that?


The fact that I know several people who have become cops and they all laughed about how they were going to be butthole and tell people what to do...

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:36 pm 
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1984phins wrote:
However, I wouldn't deny that historically cops haven't exactly treated African Americans equally.


This I disagree with for the most part.

The media tends to cover the stories that involve blacks more, but there are many documented cases of cops treating people of all races and ethnicities wrongly.

If you watch news in Miami, most of the cases involve cops over-exerting their authorities with people of Hispanic descent.

Are there cases in pockets of America where cops treat blacks differently? Sure, I bet there are.

But the overwhelming a$$hole attitude cops display towards the citizenry knows no color.

EDIT: I don't know how far back historically you are talking about, but in recent events such as Ferguson, Baltimore etc, I think facts have been disregarded in order to move forward with the "white cop abusing black citizen" theme.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:51 pm 
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MiamiMenace wrote:
In my entire 49 yrs I have had only one official interaction with police (not counting traffic stops) and that was when my car was stolen in 87'. I had to call them. No doubt there are some bad cops. But the good ones far far out weigh the bad ones. You have bad Doctors that get sued every day. Bad teachers that bang students. Bad people in every type of employment you can think of. The percentage of bad priests far outweigh the bad cops. But for some reason they never get any press..........


So in 49 years you've had one interaction with a cop and from this one interaction you've deduced that the good ones far outweigh the bad ones? I get that they are batting .1000 with you but that's based on one at bat.

That sounds like a very insignificant data set to me.

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Being a cop is no power trip. They have to deal with things you couldn't imagine sometimes on a daily basis. Its problem solving to the max. They deserve our respect. At the very least I thought the president of the united States and the Attorney general would. What is this country without Law and order? Without respect for the people that help keep us safe? hell it took the white house 5 days to finally put the flags at half staff for those servicemen killed in Tenn. And even then it was under pressure. Didn't take them long to paint the house in rainbow colors or send staff to the Funerals of Felons.


I understand that there is some desensitizing that occurs given that cops deal with a lot of criminals on a regular basis. However, they way police has been militarized in this country due to the so called War on Drugs, the way cops overcharge people on arrest reports on a REGULAR BASIS to make them have to pay higher amounts on bail, the way cops talk to regular citizens on a daily basis and the fact that during their career, statistically, something like 33% of cops will face some sort of investigation for improper behavior (and imagine the ones that get swept under the rug to protect a brother in blue) all speak volumes to the level of abuse of power perpetrated by a good percentage of cops on a daily basis.

I agree that cops are facing some challenges, specifically from people who want to forward an anti cop agenda for their own political gain, but the fact is that many citizens feel like they don't trust police and a good portion of that has been caused by the way cops behave and treat the citizenry.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:01 pm 
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Cathal wrote:
I've been in a few discussions with Rich and that comment is one of his less attack worthy statements. :) But yes, I agree it's a generalization that probably doesn't accurately describe the realities. The current crop of issues just highlight what you are saying, which is police departments have had their image tarnished, some, rightfully so.


What part of my original comment doesn't accurately describe the reality?

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But anyway, this is a thread about Trump and his silly attempt at becoming President. I kinda agree with The Onion in that I want to see how far this goes, but at the same time, I just can't believe there are that many people out there that actually support him. His bombastic attitude sure isn't going to get any diplomacy points in the foreign arena. This has to just be a PR stunt or an ego-booster for him. When Fox News says you should probably apologize and take back what you said, you know you're way out there.


Trump is a boring topic. I think we all agree he's a dirt bag.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:03 pm 
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Rich wrote:
1984phins wrote:
However, I wouldn't deny that historically cops haven't exactly treated African Americans equally.


This I disagree with for the most part.

The media tends to cover the stories that involve blacks more, but there are many documented cases of cops treating people of all races and ethnicities wrongly.

If you watch news in Miami, most of the cases involve cops over-exerting their authorities with people of Hispanic descent.

Are there cases in pockets of America where cops treat blacks differently? Sure, I bet there are.

But the overwhelming a$$hole attitude cops display towards the citizenry knows no color.

EDIT: I don't know how far back historically you are talking about, but in recent events such as Ferguson, Baltimore etc, I think facts have been disregarded in order to move forward with the "white cop abusing black citizen" theme.


I'm thinking further back than that: decades and decades. Cops showing up at courthouses to discourage blacks from registering to vote is an image that comes to mind. Recent cases I think have grown from that theme rather than establishing the theme.

I'm too far north for the Miami news, but that makes me sad.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:05 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Trump is a boring topic. I think we all agree he's a dirt bag.


Boring bc we all agree? Yes. But watching him speak is oddly fascinating to me.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:10 pm 
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Rich wrote:
However, they way police has been militarized in this country due to the so called War on Drugs,


Agree, this doesn't get talked about enough.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:31 pm 
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Rich wrote:
MiamiMenace wrote:
What makes you say that?


The fact that I know several people who have become cops and they all laughed about how they were going to be butthole and tell people what to do...



Then I advise you maybe get some new friends or at least don't generalize a group of 900,000 plus officers on statements your friends make. :hithead:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:44 pm 
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1984phins wrote:
Rich wrote:
However, they way police has been militarized in this country due to the so called War on Drugs,


Agree, this doesn't get talked about enough.


Guys, its not just the war on drugs. When criminals get more sophisticated and better equipped you can't just sit back and not evolve.

I'm sorry, but everyone gripes about police toughness and capabilities until they are put in a desperate situation that requires serious tactical operations. Then they wonder why there are limitations.

That was my dad's expertise - Tac Ops/Search and Rescue. I hope you guys never experience that type of situation. I can't tell you how many holiday dinners were interrupted by hostage situations, kidnappings and violent crimes.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:50 pm 
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1984phins wrote:

However, I wouldn't deny that historically cops haven't exactly treated African Americans equally.


That's also a loaded question. I mean are we talking 1964 Miss, or 2015 Baltimore? I think many black Americans have chips on their shoulders. If many are stopped regardless of weather they were actually speeding , or if they did just commit a burglary from what I've seen is the first word out of their mouths is......why!? because I'm black?

How many truly innocent black Americans are victimized by police today because of their color? Look at all the biggest issues , Rodney King, Eric garner, Mike brown.......hell OJ! What do they all have in common? Everyone of them was committing a felony. How many White people get beat up by over zealous police? Hispanic? Its not an issue is it? You think it doesn't occur?


"It has to be this way: Cops are trusted with our public safety."


Well it would be nice to see people take their word and not make them Guilty and be proven to be innocent. Look at Darren Wilson. Guy was tried and hanged on day 2. He was pronounced guilty by our own President and Attorney General before any proof was even presented.

Look at Baltimore. The State Attorney filed charges for murder without even an investigation. really? You don't see a problem? It does NOT have to be that way. I vehemently disagree.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:51 pm 
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1984phins wrote:
Rich wrote:
Trump is a boring topic. I think we all agree he's a dirt bag.


Boring bc we all agree? Yes. But watching him speak is oddly fascinating to me.


I agree on that point. Its like a bad car crash......you don't want to see it , but you cant help but look.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:58 pm 
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jammer wrote:
1984phins wrote:
Rich wrote:
However, they way police has been militarized in this country due to the so called War on Drugs,


Agree, this doesn't get talked about enough.


Guys, its not just the war on drugs. When criminals get more sophisticated and better equipped you can't just sit back and not evolve.

I'm sorry, but everyone gripes about police toughness and capabilities until they are put in a desperate situation that requires serious tactical operations. Then they wonder why there are limitations.

That was my dad's expertise - Tac Ops/Search and Rescue. I hope you guys never experience that type of situation. I can't tell you how many holiday dinners were interrupted by hostage situations, kidnappings and violent crimes.



I agree , there were several situations (especially in LA) where cops were seriously outgunned. I don't know why but I never seem intimidated when I see Cops in tactical gear. never. Why would you? Unless your a felon maybe? I feel reassured. Glad they have my back and my families.

Tell your Dad thank you for his service for me. God bless him for giving up family time to help others.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:33 pm 
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MiamiMenace wrote:
Tell your Dad thank you for his service for me. God bless him for giving up family time to help others.


Thanks bud, I appreciate that.

I'm not trying to downplay other people's concerns or paint some sympathetic portrait for my family. But sometimes firsthand experiences help with perspective. Fortunately my dad never had to fire his weapon...but I clearly remember his colleague who did and had to kill a guy. He was crapped on by the local the press and it was awful.

As for the Donald, well he may not be presidential but he's bringing issues to the table that politicians want to tap dance around so as not to offend anyone. And if you want to label him a right winger...well he supported President Obama and the stimulus in 2009. I think its a matter of how that money was spent as opposed to the Keynesian philosophy that flipped his opinion.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:21 pm 
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MiamiMenace wrote:
That's also a loaded question. I mean are we talking 1964 Miss, or 2015 Baltimore? I think many black Americans have chips on their shoulders. If many are stopped regardless of weather they were actually speeding , or if they did just commit a burglary from what I've seen is the first word out of their mouths is......why!? because I'm black?


Think about how protective you were over my comments about Southerners in the other thread. You balked at the idea that the South was littered with White Supremacists during the Jim Crow Era. You were offended that the Confederate flag was linked with racism. So, think about it: if you got offended about a negative remark about Southerners, how do you think an African American is supposed to feel about 300+ years of slavery, plus another 100 of Jim Crow? In the South, they have only had equal rights for 50 years. It's hardly a long time. That might explain your "chip."

MiamiMenace wrote:
How many truly innocent black Americans are victimized by police today because of their color?


It is a simple question: does committing a felony mean it is okay to be "victimized by police?" Do officers get to be judge, jury, and the ones who decide on your punishment upon the arrest?


MiamiMenace wrote:
Well it would be nice to see people take their word and not make them Guilty and be proven to be innocent. Look at Darren Wilson. Guy was tried and hanged on day 2. He was pronounced guilty by our own President and Attorney General before any proof was even presented.

Look at Baltimore. The State Attorney filed charges for murder without even an investigation. really? You don't see a problem? It does NOT have to be that way. I vehemently disagree.


Darren Wilson was "tried and hanged" by public opinion, not by the justice system. The President and Attorney General pronounced him guilty? I must have missed that. When was that trial?

Look, police are less likely to be indicted for charges brought against them than the general population.

Also, there was a study of more than 8,300 misconduct accusations (involving almost 11,000 officers) from April 2009 through the end of 2010. 3,238 of these accusations resulted in legal action and 33% of those got convictions.

That's roughly 1,000 instances where "taking the officer's word for it" wasn't exactly smart.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/alle ... n-charges/

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:18 am 
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1984phins wrote:
Rich wrote:
Trump is a boring topic. I think we all agree he's a dirt bag.


Boring bc we all agree? Yes. But watching him speak is oddly fascinating to me.


True. Watching him take a huge lead in the polls is baffling. But maybe some people like that he says what he thinks.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:18 am 
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MiamiMenace wrote:
Rich wrote:
MiamiMenace wrote:
What makes you say that?


The fact that I know several people who have become cops and they all laughed about how they were going to be butthole and tell people what to do...



Then I advise you maybe get some new friends or at least don't generalize a group of 900,000 plus officers on statements your friends make. :hithead:


Or perhaps you shouldn't generalize based on one experience in 49 years.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:20 am 
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jammer wrote:
1984phins wrote:
Rich wrote:
However, they way police has been militarized in this country due to the so called War on Drugs,


Agree, this doesn't get talked about enough.


Guys, its not just the war on drugs. When criminals get more sophisticated and better equipped you can't just sit back and not evolve.

I'm sorry, but everyone gripes about police toughness and capabilities until they are put in a desperate situation that requires serious tactical operations. Then they wonder why there are limitations.

That was my dad's expertise - Tac Ops/Search and Rescue. I hope you guys never experience that type of situation. I can't tell you how many holiday dinners were interrupted by hostage situations, kidnappings and violent crimes.


When SWAT teams are breaking into small apartments without a warrant (and when it winds up being the wrong apartment, they don't even offer an apology), the other shoe has dropped.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:00 am 
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Rich wrote:
When SWAT teams are breaking into small apartments without a warrant (and when it winds up being the wrong apartment, they don't even offer an apology), the other shoe has dropped.


Fair enough. I was speaking more toward the training, preparation and resources available. The application of certain tactics may be a problem, but having those tactics at your disposal is not. Good leadership makes an enormous difference in those situations.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:35 am 
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jammer wrote:
Rich wrote:
When SWAT teams are breaking into small apartments without a warrant (and when it winds up being the wrong apartment, they don't even offer an apology), the other shoe has dropped.


Fair enough. I was speaking more toward the training, preparation and resources available. The application of certain tactics may be a problem, but having those tactics at your disposal is not. Good leadership makes an enormous difference in those situations.


No doubt I will always say it. Police is a difficult line of work, you spend your time primarily dealing with scumbags. But if you are going to be an authority figure, you should set the example. A simple thing such as getting to a red light, turning on your siren, crossing the red light and then turning it off will build ill will towards a cop. Because he is abusing his power to violate a traffic law.

You are the example, the authority, the leader. Act like it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:40 pm 
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1984phins wrote:
Think about how protective you were over my comments about Southerners in the other thread. You balked at the idea that the South was littered with White Supremacists during the Jim Crow Era. You were offended that the Confederate flag was linked with racism. So, think about it: if you got offended about a negative remark about Southerners, how do you think an African American is supposed to feel about 300+ years of slavery, plus another 100 of Jim Crow? In the South, they have only had equal rights for 50 years. It's hardly a long time. That might explain your "chip."


Wow you are really stretching on that statement. Like I said in that thread we will have to agree to disagree on the Rebel flag and what it represented and more importantly what the civil war was about in general. If you want to see something racist in it you will. In fact nowadays they can find something politically incorrect or racist about ANYTHING. This country is in the crap because its commander and chief is giving it all validity.






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It is a simple question: does committing a felony mean it is okay to be "victimized by police?" Do officers get to be judge, jury, and the ones who decide on your punishment upon the arrest?
I love the way you start off a lot of discussions with "Its a simple question". because You see something that black n White (no pun intended) it is? And I never said police deserve to be anything but what they are. a constituted body of persons empowered by the state to enforce the law, protect property, and limit civil disorder. What I said was , those 4 cases I gave , although the Police were found to be abusing their authority on at least one of them, they were not just innocent poor victims like they were made out to be.


Quote:

Darren Wilson was "tried and hanged" by public opinion, not by the justice system. The President and Attorney General pronounced him guilty? I must have missed that. When was that trial?
Again.....we have to agree to disagree. because you will only admit to seeing what you wish to see. The president sent aids to the funeral of Michael Brown, and the US Attorney General got involved at the state level to try and indict an innocent cop. Darrell Wilson is in hiding. He has no job. There are murals of Brown on the walls and he is treated as a hero. he robbed a store . he battered its owner. he tried to bully and beat up a police officer and eventually kill him. You don't see an issue? None of it would have gotten even remotely as much attention if the Commander and chief and the US attorney General kept their noses where they belong. Same as when Obama involved himself in a his Law professors arrest in Cambridge 7 yrs ago.



Quote:
Look, police are less likely to be indicted for charges brought against them than the general population.
tell that to those officers in Baltimore charged with murder.


Quote:
Also, there was a study of more than 8,300 misconduct accusations (involving almost 11,000 officers) from April 2009 through the end of 2010. 3,238 of these accusations resulted in legal action and 33% of those got convictions.

That's roughly 1,000 instances where "taking the officer's word for it" wasn't exactly smart.


LOL. Do you ever stop for a second and thing about the people they have to deal with on a daily basis? Over 900,000 officers in this country. Each deal with several different incidents a day. That's about 2.5 million daily. and you bring up 1000 incidents in a year? LOL. I bet there are a lot more Doctor malpractice suits a year. And those Doctors all get the privilege of being innocent until proven guilty.

No one said cops were perfect. They take a crap daily and bleed just like anyone else. But they are not afforded the same courtesy by many. They are held to a higher standard and rightly so , but they need to at the very least be backed by the society they serve. What I've seen this past few years is most disturbing and it starts from the very Top down. We need a LEADER in this country. Not an activist with his own agenda. Donald trump says some good things followed by many more bad. But I thing his popularity is resonating with many who want some one, anyone to actually LEAD. have a direction. Show some balls. I guess Trump has done that.

here is a good example of the current leadership vs what we used to have in this country that made us the greatest country in the world:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfKGUF9uDxU


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:49 pm 
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Quote:
RICH:

Then I advise you maybe get some new friends or at least don't generalize a group of 900,000 plus officers on statements your friends make. :hithead:


Or perhaps you shouldn't generalize based on one experience in 49 years.[/quote]

Fair enough.

But I know I do not speed through neighborhoods high on PCP . I don't sell illegal cigarettes. I don't bully store owners or steal , and if a police officer asked me to do something I'd do it. If I thought it was disrespectful , I wait to my encounter was over and I'd go to the station and file a complaint. I don't find it a coincidence that I don't have issues with the police. I really don't believe most cops put on a uniform and look in the mirror and say........lets go F with people! I do believe thanks to poor training and some that do fall through the cracks, some don't handle stressful situations as well as they should have. I just don't think its right that the few that get off seeing bad cops fall overshadow all the good things that police do daily. Millions of incidents a day.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:06 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Rich wrote:
When SWAT teams are breaking into small apartments without a warrant (and when it winds up being the wrong apartment, they don't even offer an apology), the other shoe has dropped.


Fair enough. I was speaking more toward the training, preparation and resources available. The application of certain tactics may be a problem, but having those tactics at your disposal is not. Good leadership makes an enormous difference in those situations.



BINGO. Because 1 badly led department cant handle the tools given to them , does not mean my department , my neighborhood, my safety needs to be jeopardized and these tools taken away from people guarding my safety and my families.

We have had incidents as close as a block away. 1 guy was a disaster nut and was hoarding weapons for the end of civilized society. He had the buried safe house, and a cache of weapons that rivaled some small armies. This was discovered went he went off his meds and tried to kill his girlfriend when he found she was sleeping with his son. Guy went off the rails. Cops came in tracked vehicles, set up perimeters and closed down the neighborhood. When it was over they found rocket launchers and anti tank weapons at his disposal.

No sir. I couldn't believe this guy was living just a block from me in a gated community here under the sun. I am so thankful we have a Sheriff who thought ahead to have the means and the personal trained to deal with it all. He wins elections by a 90% vote every 4 yrs. This will be his 5th election and he is running un opposed. That's leadership. Again something that's seriously lacking in this country.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:08 pm 
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Rich wrote:
jammer wrote:
Rich wrote:
When SWAT teams are breaking into small apartments without a warrant (and when it winds up being the wrong apartment, they don't even offer an apology), the other shoe has dropped.


Fair enough. I was speaking more toward the training, preparation and resources available. The application of certain tactics may be a problem, but having those tactics at your disposal is not. Good leadership makes an enormous difference in those situations.


No doubt I will always say it. Police is a difficult line of work, you spend your time primarily dealing with scumbags. But if you are going to be an authority figure, you should set the example. A simple thing such as getting to a red light, turning on your siren, crossing the red light and then turning it off will build ill will towards a cop. Because he is abusing his power to violate a traffic law.

You are the example, the authority, the leader. Act like it.



I don't believe anyone would argue that.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:02 pm 
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MiamiMenace wrote:
Wow you are really stretching on that statement. Like I said in that thread we will have to agree to disagree on the Rebel flag and what it represented and more importantly what the civil war was about in general. If you want to see something racist in it you will. In fact nowadays they can find something politically incorrect or racist about ANYTHING. This country is in the crap because its commander and chief is giving it all validity.


What, Obama was the first person to link the Rebel flag with racism? LOL

The point you missed was this: (perhaps I wasn't clear in my word choice)

You upbringing influenced you to view Southern History and the Rebel Flag a certain way, correct? You want people to understand this and not judge?

What do you think the upbringing of an African American child is like when you take into account 300 years of slavery, 100 of Jim Crow, and only 50 years of full civil rights in the South? Have you tried to understand where they are coming from? That's my point.




MiamiMenace wrote:
I love the way you start off a lot of discussions with "Its a simple question". because You see something that black n White (no pun intended) it is? And I never said police deserve to be anything but what they are. a constituted body of persons empowered by the state to enforce the law, protect property, and limit civil disorder. What I said was , those 4 cases I gave , although the Police were found to be abusing their authority on at least one of them, they were not just innocent poor victims like they were made out to be.


It is simple, though. Unless police are given the constitutional right to beat up suspects like they did with Rodney King, I'm not for it, regardless of what he did.

You seem to be allowing for certain treatment based on if the person is innocent or not. I don't agree.

MiamiMenace wrote:
Again.....we have to agree to disagree. because you will only admit to seeing what you wish to see. The president sent aids to the funeral of Michael Brown, and the US Attorney General got involved at the state level to try and indict an innocent cop.


Investigating a crime is not the same as calling someone guilty. They investigated and decided not to bring charges. That IS NOT the same as declaring him guilty. Unless Obama or Holder specifically said he was guilty, you are factually wrong.

MiamiMenace wrote:
Darrell Wilson is in hiding. He has no job. There are murals of Brown on the walls and he is treated as a hero. he robbed a store . he battered its owner. he tried to bully and beat up a police officer and eventually kill him. You don't see an issue? None of it would have gotten even remotely as much attention if the Commander and chief and the US attorney General kept their noses where they belong.


It got attention b/c of the media and the protests.


Don't know why you rush to blame Obama or Holder for it. As for Holder "keeping his nose," he is well within his rights as Attorney General to investigate the case. And DOJ cleared Darren Wilson.

MiamiMenace wrote:
tell that to those officers in Baltimore charged with murder.


Statistical Analysis says otherwise, MiamiMenace. Officers are less likely to be indicted for crimes than the general population.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/ferg ... en-wilson/

MiamiMenace wrote:
LOL. Do you ever stop for a second and thing about the people they have to deal with on a daily basis? Over 900,000 officers in this country. Each deal with several different incidents a day. That's about 2.5 million daily. and you bring up 1000 incidents in a year? LOL. I bet there are a lot more Doctor malpractice suits a year. And those Doctors all get the privilege of being innocent until proven guilty.


You might feel differently if you were on the receiving end of one of those thousand incidents.

I simply don't want a bias, which is what you are advocating when you say "take their word for it."

How about cases get investigated and then the officer is either cleared or not? I can do without the media trying the case, but that is a different issue.

MiamiMenace wrote:
We need a LEADER in this country. Not an activist with his own agenda. Donald trump says some good things followed by many more bad. But I thing his popularity is resonating with many who want some one, anyone to actually LEAD. have a direction. Show some balls. I guess Trump has done that.

here is a good example of the current leadership vs what we used to have in this country that made us the greatest country in the world:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfKGUF9uDxU


Last time I checked, Obama is a two term president who has done his job. Here is what you really meant to say: "I don't like Obama's policies." Fine, disagree with them. But he has been a leader.

Trump has showed balls? By calling people names? Please.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:47 am 
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What, Obama was the first person to link the Rebel flag with racism? LOL


Obama is the first president of color. he had a unique opportunity to make history and close the gap between race relations here in America. In fact I believe he has not only made it worse , he has created more racists. The problem I see with the black community is they are constantly being told they are victims. They are conditioned with being told that black America is kept down and no matter how many Rooney rules are made, the Affirmative actions policies , it doesn't solve anything and its never enough.





Quote:
The point you missed was this: (perhaps I wasn't clear in my word choice)

You upbringing influenced you to view Southern History and the Rebel Flag a certain way, correct? You want people to understand this and not judge?

What do you think the upbringing of an African American child is like when you take into account 300 years of slavery, 100 of Jim Crow, and only 50 years of full civil rights in the South? Have you tried to understand where they are coming from? That's my point.
Quote:


Are you kidding me? this country isn't even 300 yrs old. And Slavery ended during the 1860's. That excuse needs to be put to bed. Jews were exterminated only 70 yrs ago......I don't see them using the crutch. Asian were imported here and put to work during the 1860's and built our railroads. They have all been very successful after 2-3 generations. Indians (from India) also are very successful. Irish , Italians, every nationality. Why is the black community still have the biggest population's in prison? lead unemployment? Look at the American Indians. They are given everything under the sun and they too have serious alcohol and drug addictions. You teach a person to fish they eat for a lifetime. Give them dinner and they will eventually starve because they get used to it.


Quote:
Investigating a crime is not the same as calling someone guilty. They investigated and decided not to bring charges. That IS NOT the same as declaring him guilty. Unless Obama or Holder specifically said he was guilty, you are factually wrong.
Are you serious? WTF are they even getting involved in the first place? Have you ever seen a president getting involved with things like the Zimmerman trial?

Look at a large company. If the CEO came down and started picking apart policies and bossing around entry level employees how do you think that would effect morale? Production? There is a reason we have states , counties and cities. Obama created all the controversy surrounding Miss. and the brown shooting. He had no right in interject his personal feelings in the Zimmerman case.

Look at the comment Rich made about the police acting as role models above. If the president and the Attorney General don't respect police , why should anyone else? Its disgraceful. Our next leader has to be a strong defender of law and order. We need to get people to respect police again.


Quote:
Last time I checked, Obama is a two term president who has done his job. Here is what you really meant to say: "I don't like Obama's policies." Fine, disagree with them. But he has been a leader.
:)

History will prove he was the worst president in recent history. He did his job from an activist perspective. The president of the United states is an elected official that should serve ALL Americans. Not just a minority fraction. He's a disgrace.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:20 am 
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MiamiMenace wrote:
But I know I do not speed through neighborhoods high on PCP . I don't sell illegal cigarettes. I don't bully store owners or steal , and if a police officer asked me to do something I'd do it. If I thought it was disrespectful , I wait to my encounter was over and I'd go to the station and file a complaint. I don't find it a coincidence that I don't have issues with the police. I really don't believe most cops put on a uniform and look in the mirror and say........lets go F with people! I do believe thanks to poor training and some that do fall through the cracks, some don't handle stressful situations as well as they should have. I just don't think its right that the few that get off seeing bad cops fall overshadow all the good things that police do daily. Millions of incidents a day.


33% of cops will be investigated for some sort of improper behavior throughout their career. That doesn't take into account those cases that get swept under the rug by Internal Affairs to protect their brothers in blue or the cases not reported by citizens because they figure it either won't go anywhere or they are not aware it can be reported. This also doesn't include the state of New York as they do not report this data to the Department of Justice. So the percentage of cops that at some point in their career cross some sort of line is probably higher than 33%. That's too high. Period. End of story.

I am sure all those cases did not involve people driving around on PCP or whatever other irrelevant examples you want to add to the discussion. I've personally seen a cop treat a pregnant woman who was throwing up during a traffic stop like crap. That's about as a$$holish as it gets.

Also, let's look historically at all of the different cases of police corruption that have taken place, specifically in big cities. The movie American Ganster is based on a true story, if you go read up on the story, see how many cops were involved in shaking down drug dealers for money to allow them to continue selling. Or go look up all of the other corruption cases against police departments throughout the United States.

You've personally had a good experience with one cop in your life. Awesome. Great anecdotal evidence. Now go educate yourself on what is happening across America with police departments, especially in big cities.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:22 am 
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MiamiMenace wrote:
BINGO. Because 1 badly led department cant handle the tools given to them , does not mean my department , my neighborhood, my safety needs to be jeopardized and these tools taken away from people guarding my safety and my families.


So there is only 1 badly led department in the United States?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:23 am 
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MiamiMenace wrote:
You are the example, the authority, the leader. Act like it.



I don't believe anyone would argue that.[/quote]

And yet there is so much distrust with police going back a couple of decades.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:58 pm 
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You've personally had a good experience with one cop in your life. Awesome. Great anecdotal evidence. Now go educate yourself on what is happening across America with police departments, especially in big cities.
I lived in the biggest city of them all. I'm originally from NYC. Cops are human beings. Not perfect robots. I'm not making excuses for them, but I do try to understand them. I personally never had an issue with them because I try not to break the law.

If I was a drug dealer, or a thief, chances are I will be meeting a lot more police and yes the odds are pretty good I will probably have a negative interaction with them. I grew in Staten Island NYC. I heard many stories about the police. NYPD. I always treated them with respect when pulled over and I never had an issue. And I was a stupid driver in my teens.

Went to Ft Lauderdale on spring break in 1986. A kid from my high school got drunk and punched a Policemans horse. His parents had to wait 3 weeks before he could travel back home from the hospital.

Was it right that he got beat within an inch of his life? No. Of course not. But these are the types of things that happens when you get drunk and punch police animals. My Point? negative interactions with Police sometimes brings negative consequences. Its the actions of some that bring those negative reactions , not always their race. I believe there were two officers of color involved in the beating of Rodney King.

Big Cities are a tough place to live. I know. When I had children I moved to South Fla and it was the best move I ever made. I support our local police to the hilt because they keep this a wonderful place to live.

The problem with your line of thinking is You see criminals as victims and police as the criminals. Its what this country has become the last 7 yrs and I want a New President that respects law Enforcement . You have teenagers today that actually disrespect police on a daily basis for a You Tube video . Back in my day that was unthinkable. 1980's NYPD would have scraped you off the sidewalk. That threat kept me on the straight an arrow. Not anymore.

Yes. This doesn't cover all the actually corrupt things that do occur. I'm not sticking my head in the sand . But lately it seems inferred that they are all bad and its wrong. Most are not.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:00 pm 
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Rich wrote:
MiamiMenace wrote:
You are the example, the authority, the leader. Act like it.



I don't believe anyone would argue that.


And yet there is so much distrust with police going back a couple of decades.[/quote]


Not amongst good honest citizens. Between felons? Sure. Too bad.


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