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 5tds/5ints 
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Post 5tds/5ints
We will NEVER win the big game with these types of stats. Flame me all you want, but the fact is we haven't won the SB since the 70's and our QBs are hardly even or below even with the ratio. Now, RT is the best QB we have since Marino IMO with the highest cieling, but he holds the ball wayyy too long, dump it, throw it hot. The OL totally sucks, Wallace looks like he doens't want to play, the coaches can't think on 3rd inces to run up the gut or QB sneak it, nor can they think that L Miller is running hard and they put Thomas in the next series. I'm gald we are 3-1, but that game last night showed us how far we are. Screw 3-2, bring on the Ravens 4-1 going into the bye.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:25 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
Your post had almost nothing to do with the subject line. Kinda funny...

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Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:28 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
I'll sum it up for you. RT has 5tds/5ints on the season. We will never win the SB or win many more games unless he gets more TDs than INTs. Better?


Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:37 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
I like it better when you do this:

Subject: Tannehill needs to improve

Body: The offensive line was terrible, these coaches are morons, Wallace is a waste of $60 million and we suck.

It's more entertaining.

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Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:39 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
The good news is Mak, Miami is 3-1. Not too many had us with this record at this point and let's see how they respond against the Ravens. 4-1 going into a bye week would be awfully nice.

I am throwing the New Orleans game in the trash. They got beat by a combination of beating themselves and the Saints right now were the better team.

In fact, The Saints is safe to say will have the potential playing like this to be a Superbowl contender from the NFC.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:41 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
The last time we had a winning season Pennington's ratio was 19tds 7ints. RT needs to con't to develop and stop this nonsesne. Shall we talk about the fumbles now....


Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:41 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
I hear you Finhead, I'm just frustrated this morning. 3-1 is awesome, don't get me wrong, but we are waaay out of our league if we think we are going to go toe to toe with Manning, Brees, or Brady yet. We need RT to get to that level.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:44 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
Makchell wrote:
I hear you Finhead, I'm just frustrated this morning. 3-1 is awesome, don't get me wrong, but we are waaay out of our league if we think we are going to go toe to toe with Manning, Brees, or Brady yet. We need RT to get to that level.


Yeah the 3-1 just kind've has a funky smell to me now. It's why I was hesitant to get too up about the 3-0 start knowing that we hadn't yet played an upper-echelon squad. One might say Atlanta, but let's be honest here .... with all of those injuries they had before they even stepped on the field we didn't play the team that was in the NFC championship game last year.

For as good as Tannehill can look for stretches, the TD/INT is still not where it needs to be .... keep in mind there's also the fumbling issue on top of that.

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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
When I went to bed he had 1 interception... wtf happened?


Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:09 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
Rock Sexton wrote:
For as good as Tannehill can look for stretches, the TD/INT is still not where it needs to be .... keep in mind there's also the fumbling issue on top of that.


If we're going down this path of ratios (which I think is a bit simplistic) then start considering all things. I think we can all conclude that most of the scoring drives this season we're engineered by Tannehill throwing the ball. Until the first half of last night the ground game was anemic at best.

The Dolphins have 5 TD passes and 5 rushing TDs (all on first on goal). They also have 7 field goals. *Disclaimer - I do not know how many FGs came through a turnover that already had them in field goal range.

By my calculation that accounts for 17 positive scoring drives. Tannehill has thrown 5 interceptions and lost 3 fumbles. Take away the field goals and he still has 10 TD drives to 8 turnovers. Two of the interceptions last night really were not on him and even the pick last week was a Clay drop...but that is besides the point.

He's doing more positive than negative at this point which is a big reason why Miami is 3-1. If you're expecting him to be elite, even by the end of next year, I think you're expectations are too high. Even if you want the Pennington comparison you have to recall that it wasn't until 4 games into the season that he was throwing TD passes. In his first to games he was averaging a pick per game.

I think the Dolphins are a playoff team and Tannehill is a franchise QB. Unfortunately I thought both he and the team were better after last week.

How he bounces back is key. I agree with O Kelly that his tendencies were figured out by late 2nd quarter and the defense took away what worked. His o-line is a joke so he needs to implement quicker, short throws or start using the play action to let routes develop. He isn't getting time like Brees had to simply let a guy get behind the defense.

Next week against Baltimore we'll have a better read on what he can do.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:10 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
IamPZ wrote:
When I went to bed he had 1 interception... wtf happened?


The defense knew he was passing so they only rushed 4 and even then the line couldn't hold. On the 2nd int Tannehill and Wallace weren't on the same page. Wallace stopped and Tannehill threw to hit him in stride. The defender dove, popped the ball in the air and someone picked it.

The 3rd int was just a desperation situation. His arm get hit as he threw, ball popped up and was picked. Watching the play I think Matthews could have given more effort to bat the ball down. At that point I just don't think the effort was there.

It stinks because for the first time in forever I don't panic on every pass thinking its going to be picked. I'm now assuming its a chain moving throw.

Miami needs to focus on throwing to Hartline, he's the only guy with almost sure hands. Gibson and Clay contribute as well. I think Wallace dropped at least 3 passes, Sims dropped a good one on the final drive, Gibson had a drop...


Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:16 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
If we're going down this path of ratios (which I think is a bit simplistic) then start considering all things

It's a key stat around the league. The QBs that get replaced have horrible ratios (Henne) and the QBs that are elite have great ratios (Manning, Brees)


He's doing more positive than negative at this point

Agreed.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:19 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
Tannehill had 1 TD and 3 INTs in this game against a very good defense.

Dan Marino had 1 TD and 3 INTs in his 3rd year (1985) in the NFL facing a 7-9 Steelers team.

Even the great Dan Marino, who had a fantastic OL can have an off game. Tannehill is still developing in his 2nd year. Keep in mind that Tannehill only played QB for 2 years at the college level. His first two years he was a very productive wide receiver (101 catches, 9 TDs, 14.2 ypc). I don't think we should be asking him to carry our offense at this point in his development, but there are times when he looks as if he could really do it.

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Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:22 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
Makchell wrote:
If we're going down this path of ratios (which I think is a bit simplistic) then start considering all things

It's a key stat around the league. The QBs that get replaced have horrible ratios (Henne) and the QBs that are elite have great ratios (Manning, Brees)


He's doing more positive than negative at this point

Agreed.


Except before last night Brees didn't have a great ratio. If Tannehill throws 4 TDs against Baltimore is he suddenly light years improved because he ratios are now almost 2:1? Justs seems like there is too much room for fluctuation in numbers this early in the season to have that translate.

I think the overall ratio of positive to negative is more accurate for now. If Tannehill only throws 18 TDs and maybe has 13 picks, but the ground game has 20 TDs from goal line situations, then he's positioning this team to win. If it is all field goals and the TD passes are only little 5 yd screens then we have Henne again.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:45 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
Dan Marino had 1 TD and 3 INTs in his 3rd year (1985) in the NFL facing a 7-9 Steelers team.

lol Dave,,,Marino also had a 68td/23int ratio in his 1st 2 years. Of course a QB can have a bad game and I'm chaulking RT performance last night as a bad game. As Jammer said, this Sunday will tell us a lot. I want to see a Brees, Manning performace 1 day out of our QB...lol



Tannehill is still developing in his 2nd year. Keep in mind that Tannehill only played QB for 2 years at the college level. His first two years he was a very productive wide receiver (101 catches, 9 TDs, 14.2 ypc). I don't think we should be asking him to carry our offense at this point in his development, but there are times when he looks as if he could really do it.

I agree with you Dave. My point is if he doesn't start throwing more TDs than INTS, he will fade away like every QB in the league with = or neg td/int ratios.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:47 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
Jam, I don't know what his ratio is this year but here is his career. 334td/169int looks pretty good to me.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:51 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
RT is 17td/18int for his career.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:02 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
We can pick and choose whose fault each individual INT is on, but at the end of the day, 4 turnovers is 4 turnovers. He had a bad game.

It's concerning and disappointing because this was his first real, 'big boy NFL' game, and he failed.

That said, I'm more concerned about his development and the development of the offense being seriously stalled because this offensive line can't pass protect when Ryan takes 7 step drops.

I'm tired of people blaming some sacks on Tannehill for holding the ball too long. Every QB is allowed to scan the field every once in a while...Tannehill is NEVER allowed that. He has to get rid of it extremely quick, or he's going down. I think we've started to see signs of it getting to his head a little bit, and that's super concerning.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:06 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
Makchell wrote:
Jam, I don't know what his ratio is this year but here is his career. 334td/169int looks pretty good to me.


Well are we going by year? Career? Quarterly?

RG III has better numbers than Tannehill but they were compiled in garbage time. Who would you have rather had over the last 4 games?

I understand your larger point, I just don't know that the 5 TD to 5 Int ratio is defining Tannehill through 4 games. I'd love to see some big statistical games from him but I'd be happier if he was just winning the way he did versus Atlanta or Indy.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:08 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
I'd be happier if he was just winning the way he did versus Atlanta or Indy.

For sure. ALso, like you said, this week is huge. We lose and we are both 3-2 with Balt holding the tie breaker over us. this needs to be a statemnt game where we go into the bye 4-1 and they are 2-3.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:17 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
Phins Rock wrote:
We can pick and choose whose fault each individual INT is on, but at the end of the day, 4 turnovers is 4 turnovers. He had a bad game.

It's concerning and disappointing because this was his first real, 'big boy NFL' game, and he failed.


He was figured out, plain and simple. Defense knew he only had a short field due to pressure and they took it away.

This was one game. Even the best flop on a national stage. A lot of emotion is still feeding the negatives being written and posted, maybe we're overanalyzing a bit. If Miami beats Baltimore we'll all be back in a state of bliss.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:19 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
Makchell wrote:
I'd be happier if he was just winning the way he did versus Atlanta or Indy.

For sure. ALso, like you said, this week is huge. We lose and we are both 3-2 with Balt holding the tie breaker over us. this needs to be a statemnt game where we go into the bye 4-1 and they are 2-3.


Agreed. If Miami is a playoff team I'd argue this is a must win game.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:21 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
One of the worst parts of last night was seeing the camera zero in on Sherman as he had his head buried in his hands after Tannehill was picked off on that slant.

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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
jammer wrote:
If Miami beats Baltimore we'll all be back in a state of bliss.


Ignorant bliss....


Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:26 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
Phins Rock wrote:
jammer wrote:
If Miami beats Baltimore we'll all be back in a state of bliss.


Ignorant bliss....


You beat the teams you're supposed to beat. That is step 1.

Miami should be able to compete with every team outside of Denver, NO and Seattle. Everyone else has flaws that can be exposed. Can Miami capitalize?


Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:36 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
I think here is some good analysis on answering the question, Is Tannehill holding onto the ball to long and taking sacks because of this tendency?

Quote:
The Miami Dolphins demonstrated significant issues protecting franchise quarterback Ryan Tannehill through the first three weeks of the 2013 NFL season. Tannehill took 14 total sacks in only three games, which—according to statistics on the NFL's official website—leads the entire league by a significant margin.

After allowing Tannehill to be sacked nine times during the first two games of the season, the Dolphins understandably put an emphasis on keeping pressure off their franchise quarterback. Yet, Tannehill still took five sacks during the game. Here we will explore the extent of the problem, as well as to what extent the quarterback, coaches and blockers can be blamed as the Dolphins continued to struggle protecting Tannehill during the game.



The Problem

First we should outline the full extent of the problem against the Atlanta Falcons. This is important because the Dolphins can, and have, stated their case: Their overall protection of Tannehill improved against the Atlanta Falcons.

Offensive coordinator Mike Sherman had the following to say to a group of reporters, including Matt Kelley of the Miami Herald, “I don’t think our quarterback is getting hit a lot, but we’re giving up a lot of sacks.”

He is correct, at least as far as the game against the Atlanta Falcons is concerned. According to Pro Football Focus (subscription required), Tannehill was pressured on 40 out of his 123 dropbacks during the first games. That ranks No.11 in the league for lowest pressures per dropback.

Therefore, the problem is not necessarily that Tannehill took too much pressure during the games, but rather that too much of the pressure resulted in sacks.



The Quarterback

Many, including Tim Ryan, who called the Falcons-Dolphins game for FOX Sports this past Sunday, take that as a sign that most of the fault belongs to Ryan Tannehill himself.

The logic is sound. Other quarterbacks deal with pressure. In fact, most quarterbacks are dealing with more. Yet, not all other quarterbacks are getting sacked as often as Tannehill.

A closer examination shows this not to be the case.

According to data from Pro Football Focus (subscription required), the amount of time that passed on average before Ryan Tannehill's 14 sacks was seventh-lowest in the league.

Sometimes, such as when you have a relatively small number of sacks, this can be a sign that your quarterback demonstrated significant ability to get rid of the football quickly in the face of pressure. Therefore, the only sacks the quarterback does end up taking are ones that happen so quickly they could not be avoided.

Peyton Manning, for example, took only four sacks in the first three weeks, yet those sacks happened in the fourth-lowest amount of time in the pocket. From this, we can infer that Peyton generally gets rid of the football before he can take a sack, yet occasionally takes a sack when the protection breaks down to such a degree that the sack happens too quickly for Peyton to do anything about.

The figure implies the same about Ryan Tannehill. Also, using Pro Football Focus' data we see that Ryan Tannehill's average time until his throw attempt is third-lowest in the entire NFL at approximately 2.3 seconds. Only Matt Stafford, of the Detroit Lions, and Andy Dalton, of the Cincinnati Bengals, get the football out of their hands more quickly, on average. The median average time to a throw attempt is a little higher than 2.5 seconds.

Yet the fact remains that Tannehill has taken a staggering 14 sacks, leading the league.

This paints the picture of very poor pass protection.

Ryan Tannehill is not holding the football too long. He is getting the football out of his hands more quickly than 90 percent of the other quarterbacks in the league. His sacks are not the result of the occasional brain fart wherein he holds the football much longer than usual, as evidenced by his time-to-sack average being seventh-lowest in the NFL.

In fact, below you will find a perfect example of the timer sounding off in Tannehill's head, letting him know that he needs to get out of the pocket.

... (six videos with analysis cut out)

Conclusion

This has become a serious problem. Quarterback Ryan Tannehill was limited in practice all week heading into the Atlanta Falcons game, though he ended up listed as Probable on the official NFL injury report. He cannot continue taking this level of punishment.

Over-zealous television announcers should not continue to blame Tannehill for the better part of these sacks, as we have demonstrated that the bulk of them come far too quickly for him to be blamed.

While the quarterback ultimately decides whether any given play will be a sack or not, Ryan Tannehill's standards of practice dictate that he should be one of the least sacked quarterbacks in the NFL at this moment. Instead, he is the most sacked quarterback.

This leads us to conclude that a combination of coaching mistakes and protection miscues by the Dolphins blockers are primarily responsible for the excessive sack totals.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1786 ... on-offense


Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:45 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
Good read. Thought the same thing last night. There was only one sack I recall where Tannehill got flushed out and dragged down probably by his own fault.

Everyone except Pouncey got abused, especially Martin and Clabo.

Maybe this is too simple, but perhaps just having a running back leak out as a safety valve is the only solution. It worked a few times last night (not the awful, designed screens). It may be check down city but if it moves the chains we should be happy.


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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
Even the great Dan Marino, who had a fantastic OL can have an off game. Tannehill is still developing in his 2nd year. Keep in mind that Tannehill only played QB for 2 years at the college level. His first two years he was a very productive wide receiver (101 catches, 9 TDs, 14.2 ypc). I don't think we should be asking him to carry our offense at this point in his development, but there are times when he looks as if he could really do it.

Great post Dave. Tannehill had a tough night after 3 good games in a row. I am cutting him some slack. Let's see how he responds against the Ravens.


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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
jammer wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
For as good as Tannehill can look for stretches, the TD/INT is still not where it needs to be .... keep in mind there's also the fumbling issue on top of that.


If we're going down this path of ratios (which I think is a bit simplistic) then start considering all things. I think we can all conclude that most of the scoring drives this season we're engineered by Tannehill throwing the ball. Until the first half of last night the ground game was anemic at best.

The Dolphins have 5 TD passes and 5 rushing TDs (all on first on goal). They also have 7 field goals. *Disclaimer - I do not know how many FGs came through a turnover that already had them in field goal range.

By my calculation that accounts for 17 positive scoring drives. Tannehill has thrown 5 interceptions and lost 3 fumbles. Take away the field goals and he still has 10 TD drives to 8 turnovers. Two of the interceptions last night really were not on him and even the pick last week was a Clay drop...but that is besides the point.

He's doing more positive than negative at this point which is a big reason why Miami is 3-1. If you're expecting him to be elite, even by the end of next year, I think you're expectations are too high. Even if you want the Pennington comparison you have to recall that it wasn't until 4 games into the season that he was throwing TD passes. In his first to games he was averaging a pick per game.

I think the Dolphins are a playoff team and Tannehill is a franchise QB. Unfortunately I thought both he and the team were better after last week.

How he bounces back is key. I agree with O Kelly that his tendencies were figured out by late 2nd quarter and the defense took away what worked. His o-line is a joke so he needs to implement quicker, short throws or start using the play action to let routes develop. He isn't getting time like Brees had to simply let a guy get behind the defense.

Next week against Baltimore we'll have a better read on what he can do.


well said.


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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
Strange people actually defend turning the ball over 8 times in 4 games, while only scoring 5 TD's..

He needs to protect the ball better or all his upside is pointless. Its year two, I am hoping, well kind of expecting to watch him take a few steps forward as the season moves on..

It can be cleaned up, Favre was still a INT machine in his third year, and the stat followed him most of his career.

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:52 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
Strange people actually defend turning the ball over 8 times in 4 games, while only scoring 5 TD's..

It's a huge problem. Data/facts show that successfull QBs that win consistantly throw more tds than picks. I'm not even bashing him on the fumbles which is another concern. I like RT, I really do, but we have been down this road before with QBs since Dan. The kid played pretty well in the 1st 3 games, but that pick was a bonehead play that we can't make. Ask Matt Shaub about bonehead picks....lol.


He needs to protect the ball better or all his upside is pointless. Its year two, I am hoping, well kind of expecting to watch him take a few steps forward as the season moves on..

Maybe you and I expect too much, but I'm with you. Sunday is a huge game, I know some people are down playing it saying we didn't expect to be in 3-2 at the bye, not me. If the Ravens win, we are both 3-2 and then they hold the tie-breaker over us. 4-1 would be great, I want to see RT come out and play lights out. 22-34 276 and 2 tds 0 ints.


Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:01 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
Fumbles don't worry me too much. It's a correctable issue. Much more so than not being able to read defenses, throw with velocity and accuracy and being a leader.

Tannehill has shown improvement by leaps and bounds from year 1 to year 2 so far. But there is still work to do, pocket presence, ball control etc. But to me, those are the finishing touches as far as developing a QB. He can read defenses and make all the throws.

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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
Makchell wrote:
Strange people actually defend turning the ball over 8 times in 4 games, while only scoring 5 TD's..

It's a huge problem. Data/facts show that successfull QBs that win consistantly throw more tds than picks. I'm not even bashing him on the fumbles which is another concern. I like RT, I really do, but we have been down this road before with QBs since Dan. The kid played pretty well in the 1st 3 games, but that pick was a bonehead play that we can't make. Ask Matt Shaub about bonehead picks....lol.


He needs to protect the ball better or all his upside is pointless. Its year two, I am hoping, well kind of expecting to watch him take a few steps forward as the season moves on..

Maybe you and I expect too much, but I'm with you. Sunday is a huge game, I know some people are down playing it saying we didn't expect to be in 3-2 at the bye, not me. If the Ravens win, we are both 3-2 and then they hold the tie-breaker over us. 4-1 would be great, I want to see RT come out and play lights out. 22-34 276 and 2 tds 0 ints.



I think its just being realistic.. He is a second year QB, he is going to mistakes, and some of us are just comfortable discussing them.

We can beat Balto, but Sherman and Philbin need to make a choice to take the training wheels off and let him play. They did it for a couple plays, then put it away after the first fumble.
Tanne runs like a WR, even threw the stiff arm that had us all laughing and cheering about. You know darn well he went up a notch in every players eyes after that.
He can roll out, throw on the run, we can do different variations of the pistol, there is so much more to do with him than drop back and pass...

If they opened the play book, and he made some mistakes trying to make something happen I would feel better about them..

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:34 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
10acjed wrote:
I think its just being realistic.. He is a second year QB, he is going to mistakes, and some of us are just comfortable discussing them.


A second year QB having 10 TD drives vs 8 turnovers against pretty good competition is realistic. Its not a problem pointing out the turnovers, its thinking his ratios should be much better that is hoping for too much too soon.

You can see he is growing but not as polished as some of his peers yet. There are still going to be games like the other night. Monday was probably a good thing because some of our expectations were brought back down to earth. He is a franchise caliber QB but probably not a top 10 guy yet.

When he was drafted most of us hoped he would turn Miami into a winning playoff team. If keeps up this pace he will achieve that sooner than we expected. But trying to match up his performances with those of guys like Manning, Brees and Brady is a bit premature. Hard to know if he can be a championship type QB. No matter how bad any of us want to see it he is just not there yet.

As I said earlier, if he throws 4 TD passes against Baltimore I don't think he is now on par with others simply because he'd have a 9:5 ratio.


Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:50 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
The Dolphins have improved from 13th in 2012 to 6th in 2013 in scoring. Not bad for a 2nd year quarterback behind a porous offensive line. Do we need more touchdowns and less interceptions? Sure. From what I've seen from him, I really believe we will see that.

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:00 am
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Post Re: 5tds/5ints
Fumbles don't worry me too much. It's a correctable issue. Much more so than not being able to read defenses, throw with velocity and accuracy and being a leader.

Tannehill has shown improvement by leaps and bounds from year 1 to year 2 so far. But there is still work to do, pocket presence, ball control etc. But to me, those are the finishing touches as far as developing a QB. He can read defenses and make all the throws.


110% agreed.


Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:09 am
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