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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
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I noticed the CB sitting in the end zone on the right is conveniently out of that picture. You're first sentence would be 100% accurate without that little catch.


Key words "out of the picture". Do you seriously think Tom Brady, Peyton Manning or any other top 10 QB misses this throw? This is as wide open as a WR gets in the red zone. I'll challenge you to find any WR more open in the redzone.


Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:00 am
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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
NFLJunkie wrote:
Key words "out of the picture". Do you seriously think Tom Brady, Peyton Manning or any other top 10 QB misses this throw? This is as wide open as a WR gets in the red zone. I'll challenge you to find any WR more open in the redzone.


Ryan hasn't been a particularly effective/consistent red zone operator so far in his NFL career. I'm trying to find his redzone numbers from Texas A&M to see if it's a common theme. I think some of it has to do with the fact that he's so reliant on the comebacks and curls on the outside. More often than not he's not looking over the middle.

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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
He threw a few very pretty passes Sunday to where the receiver didn't have to slow down. Also, a lot is said about Brian Hartline's ability to catch a ball on the sideline, but let's not forget that Tannehill is the one putting it right where Hartline can catch it and not the corner. They've got to be the best duo that I've seen do that.

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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
Some people just wanna watch the world burn. :hithead:


EVEN if he missed Wallace in the endzone. It looks to me like he was on the move. He took the higher percentage safe throw. We ended up with a TD anyway. Tannehill played well. He delivered the so called "kill" at the beginning of the 4th quarter putting the game out of reach. That's what good QB's do.

Good QB's ALSO miss wide open guys sometimes. Tannehill isn't the only one. Sometimes you go through your progressions and it ends up there is more then one guy open. However.. You can bet Hartline came earlier in the progression then Wallace did.. So Tannehill never got his eyes to Wallace. Because when a guy is open in your progression. You hit him.

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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
hypocritex wrote:
Some people just wanna watch the world burn. :hithead:


EVEN if he missed Wallace in the endzone. It looks to me like he was on the move. He took the higher percentage safe throw. We ended up with a TD anyway. Tannehill played well. He delivered the so called "kill" at the beginning of the 4th quarter putting the game out of reach. That's what good QB's do.

Good QB's ALSO miss wide open guys sometimes. Tannehill isn't the only one. Sometimes you go through your progressions and it ends up there is more then one guy open. However.. You can bet Hartline came earlier in the progression then Wallace did.. So Tannehill never got his eyes to Wallace. Because when a guy is open in your progression. You hit him.


This is exactly my point. We're overanalyzing a meaningless play for the sake of proving that Tannehill is not Brady or Manning. I love how from an aerial view one can determine exactly how the play was working or what was obvious.

Miami still got the TD and still won the game. They needed a drive to seal the deal and it was delivered. Maybe if it was Hartline in the back of the end zone Tannehill would have ripped it knowing how Hartline would react. There are too many variables and ifs.


Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:48 am
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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
Some people just wanna watch the world burn.


[i]EVEN if he missed Wallace in the endzone. It looks to me like he was on the move. He took the higher percentage safe throw. We ended up with a TD anyway. Tannehill played well. He delivered the so called "kill" at the beginning of the 4th quarter putting the game out of reach. That's what good QB's do.

Good QB's ALSO miss wide open guys sometimes. Tannehill isn't the only one. Sometimes you go through your progressions and it ends up there is more then one guy open. However.. You can bet Hartline came earlier in the progression then Wallace did.. So Tannehill never got his eyes to Wallace. Because when a guy is open in your progression. You hit him.
[/i]




He did what we have been wanting all offseason. The running game was done, gone and he took the team on his shoulders and won it for us in the 4th quarter. He did what "franchise" QBs do (Brady on Sunday). He didn't turn the ball over at the worse possible time (Chad Henne). I give him a B for the game, that pick he threw was on him. Still, he threw for almost 275yrds and looked good.


Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:52 am
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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
and I'm all in agreement that RT did a great job yesterday but there was only one player on the field that didn't leave any plays on the field and that was Wake. So the point of the thread was to say here's what I would like Tannehill to get better at. I think once he gets more comfortable with the offense, he'll start doing some of those things. The sure throw to Hartline was there and he took it. First down. But without that PI call in the endzone does anyone have any confidence that Miami stuffs that in from the 5 yard line?


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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
NFLJunkie wrote:
But without that PI call in the endzone does anyone have any confidence that Miami stuffs that in from the 5 yard line?


No, I don't have a lot of confidence that they could have pounded it in with Thomas. In that case I think you would have seen the quick strike (like the Gibson TD pass in preseason), a bootleg from Tannehill or a PA pass to one of the TEs. I think they get the TD because the offense was rolling and confident.

Since the subject is Tannehill I won't don't want to stray but I have no confidence in the running game because A. it seems predictable when they run and B. the line couldn't open anything up.

Tannehill will need what he did this past week minus the interception and add another TD pass to get the win. Its doable.


Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:25 pm
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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
NFLJunkie wrote:
there was only one player on the field that didn't leave any plays on the field and that was Wake.



Wake had a missed tackle in the first series of the game.

He needs to get better if he wants to be considered elite.

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Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:33 pm
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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
Rich wrote:
NFLJunkie wrote:
there was only one player on the field that didn't leave any plays on the field and that was Wake.



Wake had a missed tackle in the first series of the game.

He needs to get better if he wants to be considered elite.

Why did I know this was coming. "waiter, I'd like to order a kick to the nuts"


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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
NFLJunkie wrote:
and I'm all in agreement that RT did a great job yesterday but there was only one player on the field that didn't leave any plays on the field and that was Wake. So the point of the thread was to say here's what I would like Tannehill to get better at. I think once he gets more comfortable with the offense, he'll start doing some of those things. The sure throw to Hartline was there and he took it. First down. But without that PI call in the endzone does anyone have any confidence that Miami stuffs that in from the 5 yard line?


You can go to every game and find at least one instance where the quarterback threw to a check-down receiver when someone else came open down the field. It happens in every game to every quarterback, elite or otherwise.

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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
Junkie get with the program...

Dion Jordan is the greatest draft pick ever, the guy is already in the HOF and can do no wrong

Ryan Tannehill can do no wrong. Nope, None, Zero Zilch...

Wait, before that last thought remember, NOTHING WRONG!!!!

Ok, now that that is cleared up you may proceed to analyze the other 51 players, except Wallace who is a 60 mil decoy and does his job by doing nothing but running down field all day wide open distracting the defense...

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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
10acjed wrote:
Junkie get with the program...


I think you're the one that needs to get with the program.

It is one thing to point out a bad throw (as several have done regarding Tannehill's pick), it is another to sit here and post misleading stills and say "oh man, that guy is open!!" when it is apparent in most of these that the guy was open after the ball had been thrown because his defender had no reason to continue covering.

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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
Rich wrote:
when it is apparent in most of these that the guy was open after the ball had been thrown because his defender had no reason to continue covering.


Uhhh.....

NFLJunkie wrote:
Image

Wallace actually sat in the space and then moved to the right from here.



Guess I better schedule an eye exam

I see ball in hand, open WR in the endzone, and 15 yards of freedom...

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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
10acjed wrote:
Junkie get with the program...

Dion Jordan is the greatest draft pick ever, the guy is already in the HOF and can do no wrong

Ryan Tannehill can do no wrong. Nope, None, Zero Zilch...

Wait, before that last thought remember, NOTHING WRONG!!!!

Ok, now that that is cleared up you may proceed to analyze the other 51 players, except Wallace who is a 60 mil decoy and does his job by doing nothing but running down field all day wide open distracting the defense...

Yeah, I look at things objectively. This team is right on track for 10-6. A win against the Colts is another critical piece. Certainly doable going the conservative route. A 2-0 start going into a trio of games against superbowl contenders is imperative to post-season hopes.


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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
Rich wrote:
10acjed wrote:
Junkie get with the program...


I think you're the one that needs to get with the program.

It is one thing to point out a bad throw (as several have done regarding Tannehill's pick), it is another to sit here and post misleading stills and say "oh man, that guy is open!!" when it is apparent in most of these that the guy was open after the ball had been thrown because his defender had no reason to continue covering.


Again, no matter how much you repeat the lie, it isn't going to change the fact that Wallace was open. It was clear on the video (I'd post the video but cant figure out how to save a segment off of NFL.com). But, go back and watch the replay...should be on channel 212 this week. It was as clear as day.


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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
10acjed wrote:
Guess I better schedule an eye exam

I see ball in hand, open WR in the endzone, and 15 yards of freedom...


15 yards of freedom?

The endzone is 12 yards deep and there is a linebacker one yard in front of the endzone. If Wallace has 15 yards of freedom, I guess he had front row seats for the game! Seeing as how Wallace is at the midpoint of the endzone, that would mean the linebacker is about 7 yards in front of Wallace.

If Tannehill rockets the ball in on a low trajectory, it gets picked. If he tries a touch pass, there are two DBs in position to make a play on the ball. There is no safe throw there.

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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
NFLJunkie wrote:
Again, no matter how much you repeat the lie


Speak for yourself.

Quote:
But, go back and watch the replay...should be on channel 212 this week. It was as clear as day.


I DVRed the game. I watched it. On a 55 inch HD... trust me. I'll trust my lying eyes.

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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
jammer wrote:
I noticed the CB sitting in the end zone on the right is conveniently out of that picture. You're first sentence would be 100% accurate without that little catch.


Thank you.

This is typical zone coverage (looks like a cloud cover 3). There is a zone to the left of Wallace, a zone to the right of Wallace and a zone in front of Wallace. The coverage is designed to make receivers appear open and bait the QB into making the throw. And the most important thing when playing zone is to read the QB's eyes. The DB to the right would be breaking on the ball before it leaves Tannehill's hands.

The only way this play works is if you throw it to the back of the end zone... and that's where big-bodied players like a Larry Fitzgerald or a tight end could make the play. Not so much a guy like Mike Wallace. He isn't going to out jump or out body anybody.

As I said before, if you try to rocket that pass in, the linebacker is there to defend against a low trajectory pass. If you try to touch pass it over the linebacker, the ball travels slower and the DBs have a better chance to make a play on the ball.

Tannehill made the right decision on this play, not the NFL Madden on EASY mode decision.

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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
Correction, the end zone is 10 yards deep. Just lost 2 more yards on that window.

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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
I think every quarterback leaves several plays on the field that they wish they could have back. This is just the first game of the season. I think we need some objectivity. Any missed opportunities will be dealt with in the film room.

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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
Didn't we WIN the game?!?!?

Really do not know what there is even a two page thread on this.

RT is in the beginning of his second year.


Go Phins!!!!


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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
Rich wrote:
jammer wrote:
I noticed the CB sitting in the end zone on the right is conveniently out of that picture. You're first sentence would be 100% accurate without that little catch.


Thank you.

This is typical zone coverage (looks like a cloud cover 3). There is a zone to the left of Wallace, a zone to the right of Wallace and a zone in front of Wallace. The coverage is designed to make receivers appear open and bait the QB into making the throw. And the most important thing when playing zone is to read the QB's eyes. The DB to the right would be breaking on the ball before it leaves Tannehill's hands.

The only way this play works is if you throw it to the back of the end zone... and that's where big-bodied players like a Larry Fitzgerald or a tight end could make the play. Not so much a guy like Mike Wallace. He isn't going to out jump or out body anybody.

As I said before, if you try to rocket that pass in, the linebacker is there to defend against a low trajectory pass. If you try to touch pass it over the linebacker, the ball travels slower and the DBs have a better chance to make a play on the ball.

Tannehill made the right decision on this play, not the NFL Madden on EASY mode decision.

He made the wrong decision. I guarantee if you show him the tape he would say he could make that throw 10 out of 10 times. Heck, he squeezed the football into a tighter window on the Hartline throw for a TD. Hartline barely had a step on the defender. You're going to tell me he couldn't throw this to the endline to where Wallace had to reach up to get it? If you think he's not open, you don't understand NFL football.


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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
Rich is right here Junkie. If he throws the ball on a line, it's defended by that linebacker. If he floats it over the linebacker, the CB in the picture and the one out of the picture on the right converge and make the play. There's no safe way to get Wallace the ball there. He's not open, period. The design of the defense is to goad the QB into trying to make that throw...good job by Tanny for not falling for it.

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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
cspooner13 wrote:
Rich is right here Junkie. If he throws the ball on a line, it's defended by that linebacker. If he floats it over the linebacker, the CB in the picture and the one out of the picture on the right converge and make the play. There's no safe way to get Wallace the ball there. He's not open, period. The design of the defense is to goad the QB into trying to make that throw...good job by Tanny for not falling for it.


Not a bullet, not a lob...same kind of throw he made to Hartline for the TD. Enough air to clear the defender but enough room for hartline to make the catch. Its an easy throw. Weeden made a tighter throw to his TE...and if necessary I'll show the two guys covering him were within a yard.


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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
You throw this to the top left of the D painted in the endzone. Wallace is heading there, its away from the LB and the CB is not within 10 yards. Its a 30 yard throw and would be there in about 1.5 seconds.


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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
finfan79 wrote:
Didn't we WIN the game?!?!?

Really do not know what there is even a two page thread on this.

RT is in the beginning of his second year.


Go Phins!!!!


I agree .... and by the end of the season Tannehill will be elite as well.

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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
Rich wrote:
Correction, the end zone is 10 yards deep. Just lost 2 more yards on that window.


Oh my bad, I was under the impression we could use the space to the right and left as well as front to back.... lol :fart:

I was talking about the direction of the play, they are all moving left to right, Wallace has a about 15 in front with a DB just out of the picture. There is a Window there, and I say most top level QB's make that throw...

Now looking at the picture, it is clear that the safe throw is to Hartline. We were ahead, he took what the defense gave us and we left with points and Hartline added another catch to my fantasy team. It was a good play... However.....

IF RT is to make the next step, he needs to learn to make that throw rather the the safe one...
That is all NFLJunkie was saying, and I agree with him.

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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
10acjed wrote:
IF RT is to make the next step, he needs to learn to make that throw rather the the safe one...
That is all NFLJunkie was saying, and I agree with him.


It seems you both are applying the unnecessary for the sake of making the highlight throw. Tannehill wasn't down by 10 with limited time to catch up. He had to both seal the win and take away time from the Brown's offense. You can guess distances between Wallace and defender and claim statistical probability of hitting that throw all you want. You're both looking at an elevated angle without facing a pass rush. You have no idea how it looked from his view and to claim other QBs will hit it is nothing more than baseless assumption that adds zero credibility to your claims. I know it will give you more comfort in his long term viability as a franchise QB but you can't prove he or any other QB will hit that throw.

Tannehill needed to ensure his team scored on the drive, not on that play. He took the first down, wide open throw to keep the ball moving and drive alive. He needs to win the ball game, not convince you guys that he is now in the same league as Brady, Manning, Luck and whomever else you want to use as a comparison. Consider the situation and what was actually accomplished.


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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
I agree to disagree... You basically just explained to me exactly what I said... Tannehill made the safe throw, and did so based on that particular game..

As I said, it was a good play... Your arguing your point with the point I agree with...

Not saying he made the wrong throw, just saying another option was there, and that option is in the end zone...
Sorry, but you wont ever convince me a top tier QB doesnt go for the TD...

Dink n Dunk is what got us here. The ever elusive big play still hides from us, and if you think we are suddenly going to figure out how to win championships without it, just look at the last 10 years...

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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
I think the score was 13-10 and Cleveland had just notched a fg. They scored the TD afterward so everyone is happy. Had they settled for a FG.....This would have been a more important point. My only reason starting this thread was to point out where RT needs to grow in order for the Dolphins to have real success. I think we've finally found the heir apparent to Matino and the next decade is going to be fun.....peace


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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
Again, no matter how much you repeat the lie, it isn't going to change the fact that Wallace was open

You and your phantom facts again.


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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
NFLJunkie wrote:
I think the score was 13-10 and Cleveland had just notched a fg. They scored the TD afterward so everyone is happy. Had they settled for a FG.....This would have been a more important point. My only reason starting this thread was to point out where RT needs to grow in order for the Dolphins to have real success. I think we've finally found the heir apparent to Matino and the next decade is going to be fun.....peace


Yeah after watching a few others get off to a slow start I wasnt as annoyed at ours, its week one the first half they dusted the cobwebs. Just happy we played the Browns n not the Eagles lol


Not sure about you guys, but I am really hoping to see both offenses open up this week. Could be the beginning of a long fun rivalry between two QB's

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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
10acjed wrote:
I agree to disagree... You basically just explained to me exactly what I said... Tannehill made the safe throw, and did so based on that particular game..

As I said, it was a good play... Your arguing your point with the point I agree with...

Not saying he made the wrong throw, just saying another option was there, and that option is in the end zone...
Sorry, but you wont ever convince me a top tier QB doesnt go for the TD...

Dink n Dunk is what got us here. The ever elusive big play still hides from us, and if you think we are suddenly going to figure out how to win championships without it, just look at the last 10 years...


You kind of cancelled yourself out in your own argument. I picked the side I thought was wrong and made my point. Its not easy to debate when whatever I say is both going to agree and disagree with your comment.

My humble opinion is that throwing to Wallace had a 50/50 shot, not matter who the QB was.


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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
NFLJunkie wrote:
cspooner13 wrote:
Rich is right here Junkie. If he throws the ball on a line, it's defended by that linebacker. If he floats it over the linebacker, the CB in the picture and the one out of the picture on the right converge and make the play. There's no safe way to get Wallace the ball there. He's not open, period. The design of the defense is to goad the QB into trying to make that throw...good job by Tanny for not falling for it.


Not a bullet, not a lob...same kind of throw he made to Hartline for the TD. Enough air to clear the defender but enough room for hartline to make the catch. Its an easy throw. Weeden made a tighter throw to his TE...and if necessary I'll show the two guys covering him were within a yard.


The throw to Hartline was him beating man coverage one on one. It was a throw leading Hartline over the coverage while he was running full speed.

This isn't the same situation as there are three zones around Wallace.

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Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:20 am
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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
jammer wrote:
10acjed wrote:
I agree to disagree... You basically just explained to me exactly what I said... Tannehill made the safe throw, and did so based on that particular game..

As I said, it was a good play... Your arguing your point with the point I agree with...

Not saying he made the wrong throw, just saying another option was there, and that option is in the end zone...
Sorry, but you wont ever convince me a top tier QB doesnt go for the TD...

Dink n Dunk is what got us here. The ever elusive big play still hides from us, and if you think we are suddenly going to figure out how to win championships without it, just look at the last 10 years...


You kind of cancelled yourself out in your own argument. I picked the side I thought was wrong and made my point. Its not easy to debate when whatever I say is both going to agree and disagree with your comment.

My humble opinion is that throwing to Wallace had a 50/50 shot, not matter who the QB was.


Too funny....

But I am the one arguing just to argue... somehow... :hithead:

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Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:21 am
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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
Rich wrote:
jammer wrote:

My humble opinion is that throwing to Wallace had a 50/50 shot, not matter who the QB was.


Too funny....

But I am the one arguing just to argue... somehow... :hithead:


Yeah, thats where I get lost in the mix. I am not arguing, I am simply looking at one particular play, and agreeing there was more than one option for RT to pick from....
Wallace is a low percentage WR, that is where he made his mark, passing plays of 20 yards or more..
What are the percentages of those league wide?

I apologize my opinion differs from yours, I will try to comform to your way of thinking in order to make this a more fluid site

:yay: :youwin:

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Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:27 pm
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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
Quote:
The throw to Hartline was him beating man coverage one on one. It was a throw leading Hartline over the coverage while he was running full speed.

This isn't the same situation as there are three zones around Wallace.


Never said it was the same situation but it is the same type of throw.


Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:27 pm
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Post Re: Ryan Tannehill
Quote:
This isn't the same situation as there are three zones around Wallace.
The only thing around Wallace is grass.


Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:28 pm
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