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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:14 am 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Rich wrote:
Misinterpretation is in the eye of the beholder.


None of that is going on here.

I forgot to include they also want a seam-busting tight end.



Oh I definitely want one of those for Christmas! :grin:


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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:17 am 
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Everyone is angry we passed on Matt Ryan but look at what he has to work with. A bulldozing back, a solid o-line, 2 of the top 7 WR's in the league and a hall-of-fame seambusting tight end.

Not to mention a complete defense from front to back.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:23 am 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Rich wrote:
Misinterpretation is in the eye of the beholder.


None of that is going on here.

I forgot to include they also want a seam-busting tight end.


One more time...

Atlanta - Gonzales, White, Turner - 11 - 1
Houston - Daniels, Johnson, Foster - 11 -1

Miami - Hartline, Fasano, Bush - 5 - 7

:awe:

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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:23 am 
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swerve13 wrote:
Everyone is angry we passed on Matt Ryan but look at what he has to work with. A bulldozing back, a solid o-line, 2 of the top 7 WR's in the league and a hall-of-fame seambusting tight end.

Not to mention a complete defense from front to back.


Atlanta's D is ranked:
5th in points against
18th in yards/game
20th in rushing yards/game
15th in passing yards/game

Atanta's offense:
28th in rushing yards a game on offense
8th in pass protection according to Pro Football Focus: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Not quite the juggernaut at every position that you make it out to be. Where they excel is Matt Ryan, those two receivers, and quality protection. I should also mention they "create" turnovers and do not cough up the football like we do.

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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:31 am 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Rich wrote:
Misinterpretation is in the eye of the beholder.


None of that is going on here.

I forgot to include they also want a seam-busting tight end.


What isn't going on here is anybody saying what you just said you perceived they are saying.

For a guy that's always complaining about people bringing up imaginary arguments, you seem to like doing the same thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:36 am 
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Rich wrote:
What isn't going on here is anybody saying what you just said you perceived they are saying.

For a guy that's always complaining about people bringing up imaginary arguments, you seem to like doing the same thing.


Where though? What threads have you been reading this season?

These guys want top protection for their Tanny.

They want playmaking WR's for their Tanny.

They want a seam busting TE for their Tanny.

They want a better running game for their Tanny.

What average QB doesn't need those things? Case in point, it sounds like we need an awful lot of things to make Tanny better. I'm of the mind that asking for all those things is more than likely a pipe dream. It comes down to can Tanny eventually make the talent he has around him better because the odds of all of those cards falling into place are low.

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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:51 am 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
It comes down to can Tanny eventually make the talent he has around him better


Eventually?
Hartline & Bess are on pace for 1000 each right now..

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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:55 am 
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10acjed wrote:
Eventually?
Hartline & Bess are on pace for 1000 each right now..


You're right. Absolutely not even a shred of credit should also go to either one of those guys for stepping up their play. It's all Tanny. That's why everyone else suddenly blossomed too.

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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:05 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
10acjed wrote:
Eventually?
Hartline & Bess are on pace for 1000 each right now..


You're right. Absolutely not even a shred of credit should also go to either one of those guys for stepping up their play. It's all Tanny. That's why everyone else suddenly blossomed too.


Does the QB make those around him better or is it the players stepping up their game?

Because I see two players who played with 4 different QB's suddenly step up their game...

Either way you make my point. Tannehill is good enough to assist them in their new found dedication to becoming better players. Why not find one or two other guys that will do the same for our QB...

And why should I not feel that if this staff did find a few more like them we would be in a pretty good position...

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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:09 pm 
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10acjed wrote:
Does the QB make those around him better or is it the players stepping up their game?

Because I see two players who played with 4 different QB's suddenly step up their game...

Either way you make my point. Tannehill is good enough to assist them in their new found dedication to becoming better players. Why not find one or two other guys that will do the same for our QB...

And why should I not feel that if this staff did find a few more like them we would be in a pretty good position...


I'm all for adding some pieces, but the expectations of acquired pieces on every unit of this team outside of the QB positions is a little lofty when looking at it cumulatively.

What I see is good chemistry between those 3 players .... and I also see balls that used to go to Marshall/Fasano when Moore was playing, going predominantly to Bess/Hartline.

Fact is, if Tanny was at the stage in his career where he was elevating those around him, it wouldn't stop with just his two favorite targets.

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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:24 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Where though? What threads have you been reading this season?

These guys want top protection for their Tanny.

They want playmaking WR's for their Tanny.

They want a seam busting TE for their Tanny.

They want a better running game for their Tanny.


You said top talent at 3-4 wideout positions...

No one is asking for 3-4 top wide receivers.

You're making up straw man arguments in one thread and then lambasting people for doing it in other threads.

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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:41 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:

Fact is, if Tanny was at the stage in his career where he was elevating those around him, it wouldn't stop with just his two favorite targets.


I guess thats where we differ, I did not expect a rookie QB to elevate the play of the team, I expect veterans to step up their play and help the rookie out...

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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:53 pm 
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Rich wrote:
You're making up straw man arguments in one thread and then lambasting people for doing it in other threads.


Sorry Rich ... it's what I've read all season long in regards to the talent around him and that's where I got the impression from.

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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:56 pm 
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10acjed wrote:
I guess thats where we differ, I did not expect a rookie QB to elevate the play of the team, I expect veterans to step up their play and help the rookie out...


I wasn't "expecting it" yet either ...... albeit it would be nice to get it sooner rather than later.

However what I expected was a little bit more improvement as the season wore on.

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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:25 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
10acjed wrote:
I guess thats where we differ, I did not expect a rookie QB to elevate the play of the team, I expect veterans to step up their play and help the rookie out...


I wasn't "expecting it" yet either ...... albeit it would be nice to get it sooner rather than later.

However what I expected was a little bit more improvement as the season wore on.


Well hopefuly he learns from the mistakes.

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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:24 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
Everyone is angry we passed on Matt Ryan but look at what he has to work with. A bulldozing back, a solid o-line, 2 of the top 7 WR's in the league and a hall-of-fame seambusting tight end.

Not to mention a complete defense from front to back.


Atlanta's D is ranked:
5th in points against
18th in yards/game
20th in rushing yards/game
15th in passing yards/game

Atanta's offense:
28th in rushing yards a game on offense
8th in pass protection according to Pro Football Focus: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol



Not quite the juggernaut at every position that you make it out to be. Where they excel is Matt Ryan, those two receivers, and quality protection. I should also mention they "create" turnovers and do not cough up the football like we do.


You are so right Rock. That is why I hate those "well look what he has to work with" comments. Good front offices find their QB & then surround him with talent. That is why this front office is teetering just above crap & has been crap in years passed. We cant seem to find play makers at most positions. When was the last time that "'look what he has to work with" comment was directed at us.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:49 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
Rich wrote:
Misinterpretation is in the eye of the beholder.


None of that is going on here.

I forgot to include they also want a seam-busting tight end.


What isn't going on here is anybody saying what you just said you perceived they are saying.

For a guy that's always complaining about people bringing up imaginary arguments, you seem to like doing the same thing.



Rock's world!!!!! Rock's world!!!! Party Time!!!! I owed you one. LOL


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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:46 am 
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swerve13 wrote:
Rock's world!!!!! Rock's world!!!! Party Time!!!! I owed you one. LOL


You gotta make up a new one though. LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:07 am 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Rich wrote:
What isn't going on here is anybody saying what you just said you perceived they are saying.

For a guy that's always complaining about people bringing up imaginary arguments, you seem to like doing the same thing.


Where though? What threads have you been reading this season?

These guys want top protection for their Tanny.

They want playmaking WR's for their Tanny.

They want a seam busting TE for their Tanny.

They want a better running game for their Tanny.

What average QB doesn't need those things? Case in point, it sounds like we need an awful lot of things to make Tanny better. I'm of the mind that asking for all those things is more than likely a pipe dream. It comes down to can Tanny eventually make the talent he has around him better because the odds of all of those cards falling into place are low.


What are you talking about?

If Ireland and our staff do a good job of drafting and signing free agents, then Tannehill could have all of those things in Miami in one offseason. The offensive line and the run game are interconnected. It's obvious that when the line does its job that we're able to run for big yardage. So if we fix the line aka bring in guys that fit the zone blocking scheme, then we'll be able to give Tannehill a run game. I think the trio of guys we currently have are more than sufficient. When it comes to the passing game, we have plenty of draft picks and money in free agency to find those things. We have five picks in the first three rounds and the most money in free agency. If Ireland can't address the majority of our issues with all of that then I think we need a new GM.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:31 am 
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wkloiber13 wrote:
What are you talking about?

If Ireland and our staff do a good job of drafting and signing free agents, then Tannehill could have all of those things in Miami in one offseason. The offensive line and the run game are interconnected. It's obvious that when the line does its job that we're able to run for big yardage. So if we fix the line aka bring in guys that fit the zone blocking scheme, then we'll be able to give Tannehill a run game. I think the trio of guys we currently have are more than sufficient. When it comes to the passing game, we have plenty of draft picks and money in free agency to find those things. We have five picks in the first three rounds and the most money in free agency. If Ireland can't address the majority of our issues with all of that then I think we need a new GM.


If "Ireland" .... so many things wrong with just that statement alone.

So let me get this straight, you are of the mind that expects Jeff Ireland to shore up our running game, our O-Line, a seam busting TE, and add playmakers to the WR core? You've rationalized that in your head given what you've seen until now?

My point is, too much is being made of creating this "perfect world" scenario for the offense so Tanny can thrive. Will we add "some" pieces? Probably. Could we use slightly improved play in those other area? Definitely. But rather than get my hopes up for the idea that Jeff Ireland of all people is going to grocery shop for the perfect offense, I'm gonna stick to waiting to see more improvement from Tannehill. It's all on that kid. Otherwise he's like any of the other average QB's who are heavily reliant on the talent around them just to be successful game managers.

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Last edited by Rock Sexton on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:35 am 
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Look, its not about Tannehill only succeeding when he gets those things. In cases like Ryan and Flacco, those weapons or lesser versions of them help those QBs navigate through their rookie season. When the light bulb went off they began making others around them better.

Asking for a weapon or two to help Tannehill out at this stage isn't asking too much. Every rookie or young QB has something good to work with and none are making no names rise to upper echelon levels.

Let me add that I do think Tannehill could be doing better so he has to accept some responsibility here. Another part is the coaching which we've all questioned. Why aren't they using his legs or Bush as a short option?


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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:10 am 
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Or we can wait til we finally find that QB we need... You know the one that will elevate the players, Marlon Moore and Rishard Matthews battling for the pro bowl ballot...

Mastrud and Egnew busting those seams....

:fart:

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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:13 am 
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10acjed wrote:
Or we can wait til we finally find that QB we need... You know the one that will elevate the players, Marlon Moore and Rishard Matthews battling for the pro bowl ballot...

Mastrud and Egnew busting those seams....

:fart:


Ya, forget about Hartline/Bess/Bush .... I mean crap, our coaching staff refuses to use one of the best RB's out in space in our passing game.

But speaking to your point, who drafted those guys you mentioned? Ohhhhh but Ireland's gonna bring us everything we need next year! This argument couldn't get anymore ironic.

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 Post subject: Re: Tanny and Rashad
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:19 pm 
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Well I dont ever remember saying we are going to get anything...

I am just saying there are a few areas that need improvement... A WR other than BH/DB would be a good start, and a TE other than Fasano would be nice too...

Whether or not we get them is unknown.. Just saying that the rookie QB could use a couple more players to step up. Not that it would improve his accuracy, but if he can find some chemistry at least it would add another read.

We line up 5 wide with Bush in the slot, not sure why he never gets a pass in that formation.

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