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 Post subject: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:32 pm 
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1. Luck
2. RG3
3. Kalil
4. Richardson
5. Claiborne
6. Blackmon
7. Tannehill (somebody jumps Miami for him).

And we can't find a trade partner, (similar to last year)....

What do you do? Tannehill is gone. No elite players are on the board. You're not taking Coples and his baggage...certainly not taking an OT in the top 10.

Do you take Floyd, despite the number one concern for him is route running? (supposedly the number one thing you need in this offense as a WR)...Do you take a good player, but not at a need position at all, like Kuechly or Poe?


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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:35 pm 
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Might be forced in that situation to take Rieff. At least it would take care of the RT position.


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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:40 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
1. Luck
2. RG3
3. Kalil
4. Richardson
5. Claiborne
6. Blackmon
7. Tannehill (somebody jumps Miami for him).

And we can't find a trade partner, (similar to last year)....

What do you do? Tannehill is gone. No elite players are on the board. You're not taking Coples and his baggage...certainly not taking an OT in the top 10.

Do you take Floyd, despite the number one concern for him is route running? (supposedly the number one thing you need in this offense as a WR)...Do you take a good player, but not at a need position at all, like Kuechly or Poe?

I will throw up if that happens. I am also hearing that the Jags are extremely interested in trading down from their #7 spot.

If this was the case, I would take:
1) Coples
2) Barron
3) Floyd

But I sure hope it doesn't lead to that.


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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:47 pm 
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BPA, regardless of position, if you can't trade down of course.

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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:47 pm 
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Jason La Canfora
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1. Ryan Tannehill is the key to it all

Wish I had a dollar for every time a front office person or agent uttered something along the lines of "It all starts with Tannehill" or "Tannehill is the swing player in this draft." We already know what's happening with the first two picks, so draft intrigue really begins with the Minnesota Vikings at No. 3 -- more on the Vikings in the next item -- and whether someone would try to jump the Cleveland Browns at No. 4 for Tannehill or RB Trent Richardson.

The Browns are considering Tannehill with the fourth pick. He is going to go in the top 11, this much I am convinced of (and so is everyone else I've talked to). So No. 4 isn't a big stretch. It's highly unlikely he'd get past the Miami Dolphins at 8, but if somehow he did, the Kansas City Chiefs would snag him at 11. If Tannehill goes in the top four, then pass rushers and corners start going lower and things slide down. And if Tannehill goes in the top four, a corresponding run on quarterbacks in the late first/early second becomes all the more likely -- similar to how we saw teams jockeying in trades trying to land Andy Dalton or Colin Kaepernick a year ago. Prepare for more of that, with guys like Brandon Weeden and Kirk Cousins as possible targets.

All eyes are on Tannehill, and if his name is called as early as I think it will be next Thursday, the ripple effects will be very real.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d828701a4/article/draft-buzz-ryan-tannehill-remains-the-key-fletcher-cox-at-6


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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:50 pm 
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TheCarver13 wrote:
I will throw up if that happens. I am also hearing that the Jags are extremely interested in trading down from their #7 spot.

If this was the case, I would take:
1) Coples
2) Barron
3) Floyd

But I sure hope it doesn't lead to that.
Barron is not worth a top 10 pick. Have to take Coples & hope for the best.


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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:52 pm 
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Draft Ingram...why would you take Coples over Ingram?

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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:55 pm 
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in this scenario you trade down or take Ingram. Then go wide receiver in round 2


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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:56 pm 
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I would definitely take Coples or Barron. I wouldn't even trade down. I believe after Tannehill that Coples and Barron is the next best option, and if you trade down, I highly doubt they get either one. Then we would get stuck with another offensive lineman.


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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:00 pm 
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FrustratedFinFan wrote:
Draft Ingram...why would you take Coples over Ingram?

Because Coples is a "freak of nature" thats why. I believe with an established player such as Cameron Wake to learn from and play opposite of, Coples will be a pro bowler easily. Not to mention Starks and Soliai. Coples would be going into a defense with a very good front 7.

Players with Coples size and speed are hard to come by. There is no way I let that type of player get past us.


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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:06 pm 
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Barron, Ingram...yes. Coples, the guy who is lazy and takes plays off...and has questionable attitude...screw that. Take Ingram. He works hard every down. He is worth a high pick and is not a gamble like Coples is. Barron is also worthy of a first round pick and would be a HUGE asset to our defense. I don't think safety is important as another pass rusher to the Phins, but our secondary certainly could use a boost...especially if we are not going to upgrade the sack attack.

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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:17 pm 
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Michael Floyd in round one.

Brandon Weeden in round two.

Let's play.


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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:37 pm 
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FrustratedFinFan wrote:
Barron, Ingram...yes. Coples, the guy who is lazy and takes plays off...and has questionable attitude...screw that. Take Ingram. He works hard every down. He is worth a high pick and is not a gamble like Coples is. Barron is also worthy of a first round pick and would be a HUGE asset to our defense. I don't think safety is important as another pass rusher to the Phins, but our secondary certainly could use a boost...especially if we are not going to upgrade the sack attack.

It is definitely a tough decision, but my personal choice would be Coples. I think his characters issues can also be worked on when you have veteran leaders such as Dansby, Wake, and Starks on the defense. Ingram's size scares me a bit, especially if we primarily play a 4-3 base. Coples reminds me a lot of Richard Seymore just faster! There are not many players like Coples with that type of size and athleticism.

But the hell with Ingram and Coples, I really hope it doesn't come to that and we land Tannehill.


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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:36 pm 
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TheCarver13 wrote:
FrustratedFinFan wrote:
Barron, Ingram...yes. Coples, the guy who is lazy and takes plays off...and has questionable attitude...screw that. Take Ingram. He works hard every down. He is worth a high pick and is not a gamble like Coples is. Barron is also worthy of a first round pick and would be a HUGE asset to our defense. I don't think safety is important as another pass rusher to the Phins, but our secondary certainly could use a boost...especially if we are not going to upgrade the sack attack.

It is definitely a tough decision, but my personal choice would be Coples. I think his characters issues can also be worked on when you have veteran leaders such as Dansby, Wake, and Starks on the defense. Ingram's size scares me a bit, especially if we primarily play a 4-3 base. Coples reminds me a lot of Richard Seymore just faster! There are not many players like Coples with that type of size and athleticism.

But the hell with Ingram and Coples, I really hope it doesn't come to that and we land Tannehill.


There are veteran leaders on every team. Veteran leaders don't necessarily mean a guy with attitude problems will be turned around.

I like Ingram over Coples personally. I don't think he's a large drop off in talent either.

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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:01 pm 
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Trade down and take Nick Perry. Acquire another 2nd rounder.

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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:26 pm 
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I'll take work ethic and character over talent, size, and laziness any day. No thanks on Coples.


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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:43 pm 
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Unlike most Dolphins fans, I don't find this a scary scenario. I'd go with Quinton Coples ... and honestly I would seriously consider it even if Tannehill is available to us.

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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Big Dave wrote:
Unlike most Dolphins fans, I don't find this a scary scenario. I'd go with Quinton Coples ... and honestly I would seriously consider it even if Tannehill is available to us.


Same.

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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:10 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Big Dave wrote:
Unlike most Dolphins fans, I don't find this a scary scenario. I'd go with Quinton Coples ... and honestly I would seriously consider it even if Tannehill is available to us.


Same.


I'm turned off by Coples as well. He just screams Vernon Gholston to me... Ingram is a much safer pick in my opinon.

Either way, the drop off from the top 6 to the next tier is huge... so we'll be getting a "2nd tier" guy either way.

That said, I'd prefer Ingram or Floyd.


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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:38 pm 
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Why is everyone pinging?

I've been a fan for over 35 years and would like nothing more than to see us go to the SB! However, we need a good OL then a QB we can develope. Nice to have both at the same time but if not...get the protection first and work with that...may surprise you.

As I see it, it makes NO difference WHO our next franchise QB is unless we have a good OL! No QB is gonna be worth a darn if they can not get protection. We may not get what we want this year...if that's the case, build the line and lets see what Moore and Garard can produce with more time?

No QB can carry a team that does not protect him. Brady is proof of that! Give the QB extra time and the QB will produce! Brady went down hill whenever he was hurried or threatened and made bad throws etc.

We have a new Coach and staff, maybe just MAYBE we'll be surprised at what they generate? It'll sure beat what we've had the past 14+yrs!

If all else fails (hate to say that)...we get a better draft pick next year and a chance for a pick of the litter!

Just my 2 cents.


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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:44 pm 
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TheBigFish wrote:
TheCarver13 wrote:
FrustratedFinFan wrote:
Barron, Ingram...yes. Coples, the guy who is lazy and takes plays off...and has questionable attitude...screw that. Take Ingram. He works hard every down. He is worth a high pick and is not a gamble like Coples is. Barron is also worthy of a first round pick and would be a HUGE asset to our defense. I don't think safety is important as another pass rusher to the Phins, but our secondary certainly could use a boost...especially if we are not going to upgrade the sack attack.

It is definitely a tough decision, but my personal choice would be Coples. I think his characters issues can also be worked on when you have veteran leaders such as Dansby, Wake, and Starks on the defense. Ingram's size scares me a bit, especially if we primarily play a 4-3 base. Coples reminds me a lot of Richard Seymore just faster! There are not many players like Coples with that type of size and athleticism.

But the hell with Ingram and Coples, I really hope it doesn't come to that and we land Tannehill.


There are veteran leaders on every team. Veteran leaders don't necessarily mean a guy with attitude problems will be turned around.

I like Ingram over Coples personally. I don't think he's a large drop off in talent either.


What I am trying to emphasize is that Coples will have more ease into the defense and the NFL with the likes of Dansby and Wake. Coples does not have to be the MAIN pass rush threat coming into a team that has an Elite pass rusher in Wake. Not every team has 2 prolific LBs such as Dansby and Wake, two players in which Coples can go to and learn from, and Starks who has made the Pro Bowl. Not every team has true veteran leadership on certain areas of the team. Our secondary lacks that veteran leadership now that Y. Bell is gone. Yea Sean Smith, Vontae, and Richard Marshall are experienced veterans but have they have yet to take those type of leadership roles.

Coples will be learning from someone who is the best at the position (Wake) in the entire league. There is a big difference!

Our WRs lack some leadership, I am assuming Davone Bess may have to take that role.

I'll just leave the character concerns to the GM and the people who interview Coples.


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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:50 pm 
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rkent57 wrote:
Why is everyone pinging?

I've been a fan for over 35 years and would like nothing more than to see us go to the SB! However, we need a good OL then a QB we can develope. Nice to have both at the same time but if not...get the protection first and work with that...may surprise you.

As I see it, it makes NO difference WHO our next franchise QB is unless we have a good OL! No QB is gonna be worth a darn if they can not get protection. We may not get what we want this year...if that's the case, build the line and lets see what Moore and Garard can produce with more time?

No QB can carry a team that does not protect him. Brady is proof of that! Give the QB extra time and the QB will produce! Brady went down hill whenever he was hurried or threatened and made bad throws etc.

We have a new Coach and staff, maybe just MAYBE we'll be surprised at what they generate? It'll sure beat what we've had the past 14+yrs!

If all else fails (hate to say that)...we get a better draft pick next year and a chance for a pick of the litter!

Just my 2 cents.

Ok lets just say we take a chance on an O-Lineman in the 1st round and he ends up being a bust!? Then what? Any pick in the draft is a RISK! So risk it on a play-maker. They can still draft an o-lineman in later rounds and after the draft with players still looking for jobs and players who get cut from other teams.

Don't blow this pick on another O-lineman!


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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:58 pm 
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IamPZ wrote:
I'm turned off by Coples as well. He just screams Vernon Gholston to me...


Very possible and I know that Mike Mayock believes him to be bust-potential due to his lackluster senior year. Being from NC, I can tell you there were a lot of distractions for Coples due to alll the NCAA infractions at UNC, having his coach fired, playing a lot of DT (out of position in my opinion), and this affected the whole team. I think what you saw in the senior bowl was what to expect from Coples, but that is for Miami's coaching staff to figure out. If we draft Tannehill with our first round pick it will quiet my concerns about Tannehill as I have a lot of confidence that we have the right coaches to evaluate his potential in the NFL.

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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:59 pm 
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Big Dave wrote:
Unlike most Dolphins fans, I don't find this a scary scenario. I'd go with Quinton Coples ... and honestly I would seriously consider it even if Tannehill is available to us.


I'm with you Dave. This is exactly what I think Miami plans to do even if Tannehill is still available.

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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:08 pm 
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Phin wrote:
Might be forced in that situation to take Rieff. At least it would take care of the RT position.


If we can't get Tannehill then Reiff certainly would grade out the best. He's the number two tackle on the board behind Khalil, and he's a very good tackle at that. I would say his biggest attribute is his ability to play in a zone blocking scheme. Another good thing about Reiff is that if Jake Long ever got hurt again we would have a very good player to slide over and hold down the left side.

But whether or not we take Reiff depends on what our staff thinks of guys like John Jerry and Lydon Murtha. If they think Murtha and Jerry can handle the right side then I don't see us going after an offensive lineman until the 3rd or 4th round.

Who should we take if Tannehill isn't available, we should take the best player available that fits an area of need and right now outside of quarterback we need a WR "Z" Type, DE/OLB Pass Rusher, RT, SS, RG, and a TE Vertical Threat. So going with that in mind I think these players would be good fits if Tannehill is off the board:

Floyd
Reiff
Ingram or Coples
Barron
and DeCastro

I think that any one of those players would be an instant starter that could contribute right away and be a very good player for a long time. While they won't have the impact that a potential franchise quarterback would, they do bring solid talent to their respective positions. The only guys that scare me are Ingram and Coples. I just think the other guys are safer picks. If I had to choose between Ingram and Coples I'd probably take Ingram, I just like his versatility more. Moving him from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB would be much more fluid. Pairing him up with Wake would give our linebacking corps a great deal of versatility because both guys can pass rush and both guys are equally good going after the quarterback whether they're standing up or have their hand in the dirt. If we're going to go defense I really like Barron or Ingram in that order. If we're going offense then I like Reiff, Floyd, and DeCastro in that order.


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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:44 pm 
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With a high first round pick, I'd pass on Coples or any other player with attitude problems. If these kids had issues in college, what's going to happen when they become millionaires and move to South Beach?

Another point on Coples, he went to high school at Hargrave Military Academy (Chantilly, Virginia).............I was raised in Virginia and generally the kids that went to this Academy had significant issues at their local high school, i.e. expulsion.

Go with Ingram................great pass rusher + he can also play linebacker.


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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:29 pm 
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Honestly I wish more game tape was available to the public... tried finding some good highlight tapes on Melvin Ingram, Quentin Coples and Aldon Smith.

The idea being to compare Ingram and Coples to Smith who was taken 7th overall last year.

In the videos I did find, Smith showed a lot more "beast" than Coples and Ingram, but even I'll admit, the videos weren't the best.

A warranted comparison I think.


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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:45 pm 
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IamPZ wrote:
Honestly I wish more game tape was available to the public... tried finding some good highlight tapes on Melvin Ingram, Quentin Coples and Aldon Smith.

The idea being to compare Ingram and Coples to Smith who was taken 7th overall last year.

In the videos I did find, Smith showed a lot more "beast" than Coples and Ingram, but even I'll admit, the videos weren't the best.

A warranted comparison I think.


Check these channels. They have some good broken down tape (not highlights).

http://www.youtube.com/user/JPDraftJedi/videos

http://www.youtube.com/user/JMPasq

Doesn't let me post more than 2 URL's, but here are two more usernames.

JmpasqDraftjedi

BrownsOrBust


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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:03 pm 
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Thanks for posting the links Phins Rock.

Wow..........Ingram is lining up all over the place + he was always around the ball in that Vanderbilt game. I guess the one knock is for a true DE, he seems a bit small

Kinda reminds me of Zach Thomas (realize he was a MLB). If we have another chance to get a guy like Zach, we should take it.


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 Post subject: Re: A scary scenario
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:46 am 
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i would take 3 or 4 other pass rushers over Coples. Mike Mayock wouldnt draft him at all. LOL


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