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 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ?? 
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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
dolphinjim wrote:
dolphan74 wrote:
Henne was 33 -45...thats about 73 completion percentage...really... yep its his fault :hithead: :hithead:



Stop using logic, you will confuse the haters!!


I'm not a Henne fan but I think he needs to stay but with a QB competition to see whos best. The coaching staff is who HAS to go. EVERYBODY but the Defensive staff!


Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:05 pm
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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
Oversimplified ? as opposed to the Henne sucks comments?


Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:06 pm
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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
dolphan74 wrote:
Oversimplified ? as opposed to the Henne sucks comments?


Without further explanations those would be oversimplified too.

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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
Rock Sexton wrote:

Oversimplified.

Oversimplified? Showing the stats of how Miami is a one dimensional offense is oversimplified?

BTW, everyone wants to praises other young Qbs, but all of them have a rushing attack.


Last edited by Dphins4me on Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:14 pm
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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
the poster u said oversimplified gave u the reason..the same as the topic of this post...we were facing a bad run defense and we didnt run the ball....we give up on the run way to quick...like I have already posted, we have no identity on offense...this is on Henning to me!!!


Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:16 pm
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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
Phins Rock wrote:
Makchell wrote:
There was a play where Curtis ran deep and Marshall ran a slant. It should have been opposite. The coaches aren't helping Henne's development.


Why? Curtis is the one with the speed, and Marshall the size.

I don't understand why the announcers were criticizing that.

Plus, Curtis was signed just this week. Probably only a couple different routes they are having him run.



you're right. When has Marshall ever been a vertical receiver.
And you guys who bash us for not kissing Henne's butt.......Rich Gannon was ripping him the entire game for his passes and decisions. So it's not just miami fans. That was from an all-pro quarterback


Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:02 pm
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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
winstonwolf99 wrote:
FrustratedFinFan wrote:
Curtis did seem to have step streaking down the middle of the field and the announcers noticed that he had that step....the pass to Marshall was the safe one though....and you know what that means.


that's Miami's season in a nutshell ... play safe ... play not to lose ... we really lack that killer instinct !
plus our lack of intensity in some of these last handfull of games, where the season is on the line, is just inexplicable
and as for our 2010 motto "Feed the Wolf" pleeeeeze u gotta find the wolf 1st before you can feed it



Great post!


Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:07 pm
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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
Seems it always has to be one or the other when the blame comes down.

Its pretty much both at this point. Henne is not good enough to lead the team and make up for a lacking ground game. The ground game is not good enough to make up for Henne's mistakes/hesitancy to make big plays. Henne has become a complete reflection of the coaching staff, and oddly enough by doing that they can no longer trust him with the offense. Play not to lose and go ultra conservative. Very weird if you think about it.

I understand they don't trust Henne and turn to the run when the field shortens up, but defenses have figured that out and the ground game continually stalls. Henning really has to go.

They need to work on the o-line, get a young RB, and spend the offseason trying to get Henne right while simulatneously bringing in competition and contingency plans. I said it today, the John Beck Plan. Make Henne throw a ton of passes every day at the start of the offseason, have him digest as much game film as possible, and if he isn't making progress once training camp starts then move on.


Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:35 pm
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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
Phins Rock wrote:
Yeah...let's put all the blame on the coaches.....It's not the guy who throws 2 check downs with 0 time outs and 41 seconds left at his own 20. Not the guy who stares down WR's, and then if they're not there panics and doesn't know what to do. Not the guy who calls a TO when you're trying to hurry up to the line to avoid a challenge. Not the guy who has zero short throw accuracy. Not the guy who for the 3rd straight week has been unable to get to the 15 point park. Not that guy....it's all Dan Henning....


Yeah...let's put all the blame on the guy who had a good game throwing 33/45 273 yards and a TD. It's not the unit that ran for a paltry 3.4 YPC against the worst run D in the league. Not the guy who missed 4 FGs. Not the guys who allowed 2 TDs go through their hands. Not the guys who missed multiple crucial tackles. Not the guys who continuously allowed allowed catches in heavy coverage. Not the guy who called only 17 runs. Not those guys....it's all Chad Henne....

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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
eleaf wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Yeah...let's put all the blame on the coaches.....It's not the guy who throws 2 check downs with 0 time outs and 41 seconds left at his own 20. Not the guy who stares down WR's, and then if they're not there panics and doesn't know what to do. Not the guy who calls a TO when you're trying to hurry up to the line to avoid a challenge. Not the guy who has zero short throw accuracy. Not the guy who for the 3rd straight week has been unable to get to the 15 point park. Not that guy....it's all Dan Henning....


Yeah...let's put all the blame on the guy who had a good game throwing 33/45 273 yards and a TD. It's not the unit that ran for a paltry 3.4 YPC against the worst run D in the league. Not the guy who missed 4 FGs. Not the guys who allowed 2 TDs go through their hands. Not the guys who missed multiple crucial tackles. Not the guys who continuously allowed allowed catches in heavy coverage. Not the guy who called only 17 runs. Not those guys....it's all Chad Henne....


The defense have up 17 points....7 of them off a turnover. They did their job. Your D holds an Offense to 17 points, its on the offense to win the game.

This loss was completely on the offense, and it falls on the QB. We need to stop making excuses. Henne is not a rookie...he's got nearly 30 starts under his belt and is at the end of his 3rd season. How long are we supposed to wait? Do we really need to give him a perfect everything in order for him to make accurate throws, make good decisions, stay calm in the pocket, etc.??


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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
Phins Rock wrote:
The defense have up 17 points....7 of them off a turnover. They did their job. Your D holds an Offense to 17 points, its on the offense to win the game.

This loss was completely on the offense, and it falls on the QB. We need to stop making excuses. Henne is not a rookie...he's got nearly 30 starts under his belt and is at the end of his 3rd season. How long are we supposed to wait? Do we really need to give him a perfect everything in order for him to make accurate throws, make good decisions, stay calm in the pocket, etc.??


I'm not going to disagree that Henne needs to do a lot more if he wants to be even just a long term starting QB in the NFL. But that is not the discussion here. Its not making excuses to say the entire offense and the OC are at fault here. Its just placing the blame where it is due. You go back to the argument of getting them in scoring range. 4 missed FGs are a lot. Playing for the FG on the final drive is awful. When Henne gets in a rhythm he does a pretty good job of finishing drives. Despite lackluster results on the day, he was moving the ball well on that drive and Sparano or Henning opted for the WC completely killing momentum.

As for how long you wait...as long as they decided he is the best option. It may be next season as well if the regime stays and a veteran can't come in and beat him out for the starting job. Honestly who knows at this point.


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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
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He made RISKY throws in to tight coverage that happened to work out. That is not the same as big time throws.

Fitz played recklessly and got away with it



Quarterbacks probably feel they can play reckless against our "bricks for hands" secondary.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:28 am
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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
swerve13 wrote:

And you guys who bash us for not kissing Henne's butt.......Rich Gannon was ripping him the entire game for his passes and decisions. So it's not just miami fans. That was from an all-pro quarterback

Just how long did it take Gannon to be a worth while QB in the NFL? He should understand the struggles of a young QB.

No one ask you to kiss Henne butt. Most have ask you to judge him with all factors calculated in.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:50 am
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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
Not a one of of Carpenter's FG attempts came in the red zone. Henne and the offense simply were ineffective and he didn't save their bacon this week.

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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
FrustratedFinFan wrote:
Not a one of of Carpenter's FG attempts came in the red zone. Henne and the offense simply were ineffective and he didn't save their bacon this week.


Even still . . . you gotta make at least 1 of those. There were two 48 yarders, a 53 yarder and a 61 yarder.

Let's just throw the 61 yarder out; it was a desperation kick. But the 48 yarders are kicks that every kicker in the NFL should make. And even if they can't make one, they'd better make the other. The 53 yarder is a kick he has made with regularity over his career. In all honesty, I expect him to make those because his play has been so good.

I'm not gonna blame Carpenter for the loss, but he has to make at least one of those.

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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
eleaf wrote:
FrustratedFinFan wrote:
Not a one of of Carpenter's FG attempts came in the red zone. Henne and the offense simply were ineffective and he didn't save their bacon this week.


Even still . . . you gotta make at least 1 of those. There were two 48 yarders, a 53 yarder and a 61 yarder.

Let's just throw the 61 yarder out; it was a desperation kick. But the 48 yarders are kicks that every kicker in the NFL should make. And even if they can't make one, they'd better make the other. The 53 yarder is a kick he has made with regularity over his career. In all honesty, I expect him to make those because his play has been so good.

I'm not gonna blame Carpenter for the loss, but he has to make at least one of those.


48 yarders are not chip shots. Wind was a factor today and once again Sparano tried to ride Carpenter because the offense lead by Chad Henne fails to make plays.

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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
Rock Sexton wrote:
because the offense lead by Chad Henne fails to make plays.


The 3.4 YPC run game had nothing to do with the loss apparently. It was all Henne's fault because he's TEH WURST QN IN DA WURLD!!!!!11 So bad, in fact, that he forces kickers to miss, makes DBs drop balls in their hands, forgets to make holes for our RBs and fails to pass block for himself.

Stop being so myopic with your Henne hatred.

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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
eleaf wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
because the offense lead by Chad Henne fails to make plays.


The 3.4 YPC run game had nothing to do with the loss apparently. It was all Henne's fault because he's TEH WURST QN IN DA WURLD!!!!!11 So bad, in fact, that he forces kickers to miss, makes DBs drop balls in their hands, forgets to make holes for our RBs and fails to pass block for himself.

Stop being so myopic with your Henne hatred.


Not too mention henne is exactly the one who calls for a wildcat play


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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
I'll tell you what really has me pissed, Ronnie Brown is one of my running backs and Henning is killing my fantasy team. If he wants my happiness he needs to reverse that and give Ronnie the ball 44 times. Let's just make Big Dave happy now as the season is over;)

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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
Big Dave wrote:
I'll tell you what really has me pissed, Ronnie Brown is one of my running backs and Henning is killing my fantasy team. If he wants my happiness he needs to reverse that and give Ronnie the ball 44 times. Let's just make Big Dave happy now as the season is over;)


He's on my fantasy team too, and fortunately he did ok fantasy-wise yesterday. The rest of the season has been terrible with him. I've been playing FF for 4 years now, and all 4 years he's been on my team. I will guarantee next year he will not be.

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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
eleaf wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
because the offense lead by Chad Henne fails to make plays.


The 3.4 YPC run game had nothing to do with the loss apparently. It was all Henne's fault because he's TEH WURST QN IN DA WURLD!!!!!11 So bad, in fact, that he forces kickers to miss, makes DBs drop balls in their hands, forgets to make holes for our RBs and fails to pass block for himself.

Stop being so myopic with your Henne hatred.


You can continue to mock all criticisms with that "teh wurst" crap, but it's not working.

We've openly stated other areas of the team that need work, which you keep ignoring. However, you fail to recognize Henne's shortcomings.

Please don't talk to me about myopic. You re-define the term.

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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
Rock Sexton wrote:
eleaf wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
because the offense lead by Chad Henne fails to make plays.


The 3.4 YPC run game had nothing to do with the loss apparently. It was all Henne's fault because he's TEH WURST QN IN DA WURLD!!!!!11 So bad, in fact, that he forces kickers to miss, makes DBs drop balls in their hands, forgets to make holes for our RBs and fails to pass block for himself.

Stop being so myopic with your Henne hatred.


You can continue to mock all criticisms with that "teh wurst" crap, but it's not working.

We've openly stated other areas of the team that need work, which you keep ignoring. However, you fail to recognize Henne's shortcomings.

Please don't talk to me about myopic. You re-define the term.


Henne is not THE problem; the offense is the problem. When have you ever said that perhaps the running game han't helped Henne? You haven't. You insist he should be blossoming before our very eyes despite having no running game on a team where we identify ourselves via the running game. When have you ever said that the OLine being absolutely porous could be a determining factor in Henne's performance? You haven't. You blame him for being blind in the pocket.

I have consistently diagnosed the entire offense from the RBs to the QB to the OLine (perhaps save the receivers who have done a good job this season) as the problem, and that those troubles have consistently affected Henne adversely. You just blame Henne.

Look up myopic. Showing multiple factors for poor performance of the entire unit v throwing one guy under the bus is not it.

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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
eleaf wrote:

Henne is not THE problem; the offense is the problem. When have you ever said that perhaps the running game han't helped Henne? You haven't. You insist he should be blossoming before our very eyes despite having no running game on a team where we identify ourselves via the running game. When have you ever said that the OLine being absolutely porous could be a determining factor in Henne's performance? You haven't. You blame him for being blind in the pocket.


I have mentioned many times that we do not keep our heads in the sand about the run game and the O-line. You just keep ignoring it. I have not stated Henne should be "blossoming" .... again more superlatives on your part. My quam has been the level of regression and lack of improvement in any department. The O-line was more than serviceable up until the injuries, but we were still seeing the same Henne. Erratic ball placement, untimely INT's, poor pocket awareness, horrible 4th quarter rating etc. etc.

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I have consistently diagnosed the entire offense from the RBs to the QB to the OLine (perhaps save the receivers who have done a good job this season) as the problem, and that those troubles have consistently affected Henne adversely. You just blame Henne.

Look up myopic. Showing multiple factors for poor performance of the entire unit v throwing one guy under the bus is not it.


I did look it up. Had your avatar right next to it. Henne has shown that minus the picture perfect support system on offense, his impact is minimal and in a lot of instances a liability. That last drive in the Bills game is the quintessential example of Henne's flaws. He doesn't see the field and shows major propensity for checking it down. He lacks any semblance of being cerebral. He breaks down too quickly. All the critics say the same thing about him - after his first read he has no idea what he's doing.

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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
Rock Sexton wrote:
Henne has shown that minus the picture perfect support system on offense, his impact is minimal and in a lot of instances a liability.


Minus "picture perfect"? So you see the 28th ranked team in YPC, 21st in YPG, dead last in rushing TDs, 21st in first downs via the rush, 28th in 1st down % as merely "minus picture perfect".

The running game is ATROCIOUS, not merely less than picture perfect.

Our passing "attack" is ranked 17th in the league overall. Our running game is 21st. To try and claim that it is somehow Henne that is holding us back when we have much larger problems is the very definition of myopic.

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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
eleaf wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
Henne has shown that minus the picture perfect support system on offense, his impact is minimal and in a lot of instances a liability.


Minus "picture perfect"? So you see the 28th ranked team in YPC, 21st in YPG, dead last in rushing TDs, 21st in first downs via the rush, 28th in 1st down % as merely "minus picture perfect".

The running game is ATROCIOUS, not merely less than picture perfect.

Our passing "attack" is ranked 17th in the league overall. Our running game is 21st. To try and claim that it is somehow Henne that is holding us back when we have much larger problems is the very definition of myopic.



They go hand in hand. RB's can help the QB and the QB play can help the RB's .... you keep ignoring this, which is the real "myopic" element to this discussion.

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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
Rock Sexton wrote:
They go hand in hand. RB's can help the QB and the QB play can help the RB's .... you keep ignoring this, which is the real "myopic" element to this discussion.


In Miami's case neither seems capable of really bailing out the other or taking over a game.


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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
jammer wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
They go hand in hand. RB's can help the QB and the QB play can help the RB's .... you keep ignoring this, which is the real "myopic" element to this discussion.


In Miami's case neither seems capable of really bailing out the other or taking over a game.


Ain't that the truth.

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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
eleaf wrote:
Big Dave wrote:
I'll tell you what really has me pissed, Ronnie Brown is one of my running backs and Henning is killing my fantasy team. If he wants my happiness he needs to reverse that and give Ronnie the ball 44 times. Let's just make Big Dave happy now as the season is over;)


He's on my fantasy team too, and fortunately he did ok fantasy-wise yesterday. The rest of the season has been terrible with him. I've been playing FF for 4 years now, and all 4 years he's been on my team. I will guarantee next year he will not be.



That is some extreme homerism to have Ronnie on your team 4 years in a row.


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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
Remember what Berman always says....."nobody circles the wagons like the Buffalo Bills" ? This week's mantra should be "Nobody mauls us with mediocrity...like the Buffalo Bills". Beaten by the lowly Bills....disgusting. Playoffs on the line....in our own house...woah for 4 on FG's.....sob :(


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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
swerve13 wrote:
And you guys who bash us for not kissing Henne's butt...


These are the type of lame, exaggerative, inaccurate comments that escalate threads. No one is asking anybody to kiss Henne's butt. Some people are bashing him, some people believe he could develop if given more time.

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Rich Gannon was ripping him the entire game for his passes and decisions. So it's not just miami fans. That was from an all-pro quarterback


An all pro quarterback who took 12 seasons before showing his all pro form.

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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
Rich wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
And you guys who bash us for not kissing Henne's butt...


These are the type of lame, exaggerative, inaccurate comments that escalate threads. No one is asking anybody to kiss Henne's butt. Some people are bashing him, some people believe he could develop if given more time.

Quote:
Rich Gannon was ripping him the entire game for his passes and decisions. So it's not just miami fans. That was from an all-pro quarterback


An all pro quarterback who took 12 seasons before showing his all pro form.



say what you want, that comment isnt bad at all.
I'm not going around insulting and harassing people like Jim was.


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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
swerve13 wrote:
say what you want, that comment isnt bad at all.


The comment is dishonest because you are mischaracterizing the opposing point of view.

Since when is dishonesty not bad?

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I'm not going around insulting and harassing people like Jim was.


So you're not committing murder, therefore burglary and robbery isn't bad.

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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
swerve13 wrote:
eleaf wrote:
Big Dave wrote:
I'll tell you what really has me pissed, Ronnie Brown is one of my running backs and Henning is killing my fantasy team. If he wants my happiness he needs to reverse that and give Ronnie the ball 44 times. Let's just make Big Dave happy now as the season is over;)


He's on my fantasy team too, and fortunately he did ok fantasy-wise yesterday. The rest of the season has been terrible with him. I've been playing FF for 4 years now, and all 4 years he's been on my team. I will guarantee next year he will not be.



That is some extreme homerism to have Ronnie on your team 4 years in a row.


Sort of. He was a fantasy stud earlier in his career - in 07 he led the league in LOTS of RB categories before getting hurt. He, at one time, had tremendous fantasy value and I wasn't sure how Sparano would handle the RB rotation. If I had any idea it would be what it is, I would have avoided him like the plague.

This year I flaked a bit on RBs (all of them were nothing special) because most of my draft stock went with getting top notch QBs and receivers (Rodgers, Schaub, Vick - C Johnson, A Johnson). The strategy has worked so far - I'm in the final game. I set my draft board and went with the BPA with every pick regardless of need. I didn't start to get in to RBs until RB was the best player on the board.

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Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:03 pm
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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
I thought some more about the inflated stats argument being used yesterday. Don't most QBs who have a high completion percentage do so because of the safer, short throws? Chad Pennington is the all time leader in completion percentage and what are his bread and butter throws...short to intermediate routes.

Tom Brady has made a career out of hitting the short routes which turn into big games. When Randy Moss came to town he started throwing deeper more often. But still, he has excelled at the short accurate throws, and the intermediate routes when he had Deion Branch as a great route runner.

Peyton Manning has used Marvin Harrison and Dallas Clark on shorter routes.

I could go on and on, but the point is that a lot guys have higher accuracy because of short throws. Now the deep ball accuracy is a different story. That clearly needs to be worked on. But using Henne's completion percentage and stats to show that he moved the ball is not misleading.


Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:29 am
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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
jammer wrote:
Now the deep ball accuracy is a different story.


There was an analysis done a couple of years ago on the deep ball accuracy of most of the top QBs in the NFL.

The result was that none of them were all that accurate.

It turned out Pennington was actually the "most accurate and effecient" deep ball passer in the NFL or something along those lines.

We all know how misleading that is.

It would be interesting to see how accurate and effective the top QBs are in regards to the deep ball. I wouldn't be surprised if most are not that effective at all.

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Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:46 am
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Post Re: 44 passes and 17 runs...anyquestions ??
Rich wrote:
There was an analysis done a couple of years ago on the deep ball accuracy of most of the top QBs in the NFL.

The result was that none of them were all that accurate.

It turned out Pennington was actually the "most accurate and effecient" deep ball passer in the NFL or something along those lines.

We all know how misleading that is.

It would be interesting to see how accurate and effective the top QBs are in regards to the deep ball. I wouldn't be surprised if most are not that effective at all.


I'd actually love to see a comparison of what Pennington faced in 3rd down situations in 08 versus what Henne has faced in similar situations this season. How many 3rd and longs, conversion rates, etc.

Miami is throwing the ball a ton this season. They already have two receivers with over 70 receptions and Fasano has already eclipsed his 2008 mark. Pretty safe assumption that the absolute lack of an efficient ground game is a large part of this.


Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:50 am
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