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 QB Discussion 
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rock Sexton wrote:
That's why his completion percentages are a tad misleading/inflated. He is not reading the rest of the field and we've routinely seen how poor he is at getting the ball downfield.


Fair point. It did seem he was also much better on the intermediate throws up until a few weeks ago. Those seemed to be his bread and butter to build a rhythm.


Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:31 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
jimfinfan13 wrote:

So out of all those attempts, only 3 went long, longer than 10 yds anyways. Let the debate begin.

From my understanding Miami is in max protection most of the games. If so, does that really lead to getting a Wr deep & open?


Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:43 am
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Dphins4me wrote:
jimfinfan13 wrote:

So out of all those attempts, only 3 went long, longer than 10 yds anyways. Let the debate begin.

From my understanding Miami is in max protection most of the games. If so, does that really lead to getting a Wr deep & open?


Where does your understanding come from? The comments about max protect were earlier in the year, not all year.

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Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:45 am
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Dphins4me wrote:
jimfinfan13 wrote:

So out of all those attempts, only 3 went long, longer than 10 yds anyways. Let the debate begin.

From my understanding Miami is in max protection most of the games. If so, does that really lead to getting a Wr deep & open?


There was TONS of max protect earlier in the year, basically until he was benched (from what I've read it was this decision making that helped lead to his benching). Today there was use of max protect, though not what one might consider overuse, but even when they did use it, it didn't matter because guys were missing blocks all over the field.

Our OLine couldn't hold back a Pop-Warner defensive attack today in either the running game or the passing game. Blocking was simply atrocious for most of the game.

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Last edited by eleaf on Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:32 am
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Post Re: QB Discussion
That doesnt say much for Tony since Offensive line is his area of expertise


Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:35 am
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Post Re: QB Discussion
swerve13 wrote:
That doesnt say much for Tony since Offensive line is his area of expertise


This is perhaps my biggest frustration with this team.

Sparano is an OLine guru, and the one he assembled this year is consistently terrible.

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Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:37 am
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Post Re: QB Discussion
eleaf wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
That doesnt say much for Tony since Offensive line is his area of expertise


This is perhaps my biggest frustration with this team.

Sparano is an OLine guru, and the one he assembled this year is consistently terrible.



I sensed doom in the preseason with some of the surprise cuts.
And when they IRed garner I was pissed. Garner is one of my favorite players.
He is so important to our line. Can't wait to get him back


Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:40 am
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rock Sexton wrote:


Where does your understanding come from? The comments about max protect were earlier in the year, not all year.

Not sure what comments you are referring to, but the Bills DB ( Drayton Florence ) said after the game this right here

Quote:
And, two, if they were going to throw medium or long, they'd have maximum protection and only send two guys out."


Can't get anymore recent than that.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:37 am
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Just found this in the Adam Schefter mailbag. Pretty much resembles what a lot folks are thinking...a lot of flashes, a lot of head scratchers and no consistency. Not sure just a QB will make the difference but I agree that they need some competition. Also worries me how little is out there.


Q: The Miami Dolphins appeared to be in the playoff hunt, or at least on the fringe of the AFC elite, but have alternated wins and losses in their past 10 games. What does this team need to do to get over the hump?

-- Joshua (Fla.)

A: Easy, Joshua. Quarterback Chad Henne looks like his confidence has taken a blindside hit and the Dolphins' offense has not functioned the way a playoff-caliber unit should. Henne has been inconsistent. At times he has looked strong, other times not so much. If he could be much more consistent, Miami would have a better chance. But the organization has not stood behind him, and it's fair to wonder if it will not back him again this offseason and look at other quarterback options. The way Henne has played this season, the Dolphins almost have to. The issue is that there is not a lot out there, so it may well be that Henne is back again next year as the starter, being pushed by Tyler Thigpen. But this team must get better and more consistent on offense.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:08 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Dphins4me wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:


Where does your understanding come from? The comments about max protect were earlier in the year, not all year.

Not sure what comments you are referring to, but the Bills DB ( Drayton Florence ) said after the game this right here

Quote:
And, two, if they were going to throw medium or long, they'd have maximum protection and only send two guys out."


Can't get anymore recent than that.


Remember when it was discussed, it was Henne's choice at the line whether he wanted to call for max protect.

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Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:12 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rock Sexton wrote:

Remember when it was discussed, it was Henne's choice at the line whether he wanted to call for max protect.

That was on one play late in the game.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:38 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rock Sexton wrote:
Dphins4me wrote:
jimfinfan13 wrote:

So out of all those attempts, only 3 went long, longer than 10 yds anyways. Let the debate begin.

From my understanding Miami is in max protection most of the games. If so, does that really lead to getting a Wr deep & open?


Where does your understanding come from? The comments about max protect were earlier in the year, not all year.


And since we have gone away from the max protect, he has little or no time to throw.

He should become a better blocker.

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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rock Sexton wrote:
Remember when it was discussed, it was Henne's choice at the line whether he wanted to call for max protect.


If you want to take what he said out of context, sure.

Henne never said he chose max protect on a play. He was speaking in general terms of what would be right in specific situations during the press conference.

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Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:21 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rich wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
Remember when it was discussed, it was Henne's choice at the line whether he wanted to call for max protect.


If you want to take what he said out of context, sure.

Henne never said he chose max protect on a play. He was speaking in general terms of what would be right in specific situations during the press conference.


Rock is right. Henne is the one calling for max protection depending on what he sees.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:39 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
Rich wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
Remember when it was discussed, it was Henne's choice at the line whether he wanted to call for max protect.


If you want to take what he said out of context, sure.

Henne never said he chose max protect on a play. He was speaking in general terms of what would be right in specific situations during the press conference.


Rock is right. Henne is the one calling for max protection depending on what he sees.


I repeat, if you want to take what he said out of context, sure.

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Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:43 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rich wrote:

I repeat, if you want to take what he said out of context, sure.


How is it out of context? The coaching staff, in regards to the max protect, said that that call is up to Henne. We're talking about going max protect aren't we? Why would they do that one game and not the next?

Quote:
And since we have gone away from the max protect, he has little or no time to throw.

He should become a better blocker.


He needs to become a better lot of things.

While the protection hasn't been stellar, "little or no time" is exaggerated. Rich Gannon spent nearly the entire Bills game asking why Henne is holding the ball so long.

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Last edited by Rock Sexton on Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:47 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Quote:
"This week I discovered Chad Henne was calling for a lot of max protection on resnap calls. With Pennington there Fasano will run more routes"

---Omar Kelly on twitter.
Quote:
According to PFW, when QB Chad Henne was starting at quarterback, he would often audible to add more protection.

http://www.phinfever.com/forums/viewtop ... f=2&t=3168


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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rock Sexton wrote:
Rich wrote:

I repeat, if you want to take what he said out of context, sure.


How is it out of context? The coaching staff, in regards to the max protect, said that that call is up to Henne. We're talking about going max protect aren't we? Why would they do that one game and not the next?


Because Henne never said he went to max protect. He was speaking in general terms that going to max protect in certain situations would have been the right call.

Additionally, even IF he was indeed going to max protect, given the way the offensive line performs when there isn't max protect, he would be justified in doing so.

Even WITH max protect, he had little protection against the Bills.

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Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:50 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rich wrote:
Because Henne never said he went to max protect. He was speaking in general terms that going to max protect in certain situations would have been the right call.

Additionally, even IF he was indeed going to max protect, given the way the offensive line performs when there isn't max protect, he would be justified in doing so.

Even WITH max protect, he had little protection against the Bills.


Read PR's links above.

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Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:51 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
Quote:
"This week I discovered Chad Henne was calling for a lot of max protection on resnap calls. With Pennington there Fasano will run more routes"

---Omar Kelly on twitter.
Quote:
According to PFW, when QB Chad Henne was starting at quarterback, he would often audible to add more protection.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3168


Another publication referred to the source Omar Kelly used as shady and sketchy.

We've had Omar Kelly on Phinfever Live, and while he's a great guy to have on the show because he loves to talk, he hasn't always said the most logical things on the show regarding the Dolphins, so since we've had him on the show those times, I've always taken what he says with a grain of salt.

And again, even IF Henne did call max protect, I can see why given the crappy pass protection he has been getting recently.

This offensive line needs another overhaul.

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Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:54 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rock Sexton wrote:
Rich wrote:
Because Henne never said he went to max protect. He was speaking in general terms that going to max protect in certain situations would have been the right call.

Additionally, even IF he was indeed going to max protect, given the way the offensive line performs when there isn't max protect, he would be justified in doing so.

Even WITH max protect, he had little protection against the Bills.


Read PR's links above.


I've read it. I read everything in the local media. It isn't the only story regarding this issue and it may be the only one (Omar Kelly's) that even describes it as such.

Not to mention its a flippin TWITTER.

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Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:55 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Quote:
"This week I discovered Chad Henne was calling for a lot of max protection on resnap calls. With Pennington there Fasano will run more routes"

---Omar Kelly on twitter.
Quote:
According to PFW, when QB Chad Henne was starting at quarterback, he would often audible to add more protection.

http://www.phinfever.com/forums/viewtop ... f=2&t=3168


Another publication referred to the source Omar Kelly used as shady and sketchy.

We've had Omar Kelly on Phinfever Live, and while he's a great guy to have on the show because he loves to talk, he hasn't always said the most logical things on the show regarding the Dolphins, so since we've had him on the show those times, I've always taken what he says with a grain of salt.

And again, even IF Henne did call max protect, I can see why given the crappy pass protection he has been getting recently.

This offensive line needs another overhaul.


Teams call for big blitzes and show it because they know that if they do, Henne is going to call for max protect and only 2 WR's are going to go out on pass patterns.

I'm so tired of week after week after week of opposing team's defensive players saying, "yeah he does this on this situation", "he does this here, and this there"......Defenses know exactly what Henne is about. It's become a major liability and the reason this offense is as pathetic as it is.

Dan Henning deserves his blame, sure. As well as Coach Sparano for his general philosophy/approach to gameday management, (playing not to lose). But it starts and ends with the QB, and Henne has been just flat out awful the past few weeks. Even in a "good game" it's really below average and he makes critical mistakes over the course of the game to cost us. And then there are the subtle things that defensive players point out afterwards.

The league has tape on Henne and they know exactly how to defend him. Time to move on.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:01 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
But it starts and ends with the QB


Yep, he puts the playbook together, formalizes the gameplan and coaches himself on what to do.

Quote:
The league has tape on Henne and they know exactly how to defend him. Time to move on.


How much have the Dolphins actually taught Henne? Is he going out there every week doing the same things despite the coaches teaching him different?

Given the stubborness of this coaching staff in regards to philosophy, I find that hard to believe.

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Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:03 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rich wrote:

Another publication referred to the source Omar Kelly used as shady and sketchy.

We've had Omar Kelly on Phinfever Live, and while he's a great guy to have on the show because he loves to talk, he hasn't always said the most logical things on the show regarding the Dolphins, so since we've had him on the show those times, I've always taken what he says with a grain of salt.

And again, even IF Henne did call max protect, I can see why given the crappy pass protection he has been getting recently.

This offensive line needs another overhaul.


Recently? Fine. Prior to the injuries? Not quite. That's a trust/confidence issue Henne lacked. Perhaps that's because his pocket awareness regressed terribly this year.

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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
But it starts and ends with the QB


Yep, he puts the playbook together, formalizes the gameplan and coaches himself on what to do.

Quote:
The league has tape on Henne and they know exactly how to defend him. Time to move on.


How much have the Dolphins actually taught Henne? Is he going out there every week doing the same things despite the coaches teaching him different?

Given the stubborness of this coaching staff in regards to philosophy, I find that hard to believe.


You don't know that anymore than I do. We can speculate, but the point is that Henne is the reason this offense has completely stalled out. Teams know exactly how to defend him, and he/they can't adjust.


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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
You don't know that anymore than I do. We can speculate, but the point is that Henne is the reason this offense has completely stalled out. Teams know exactly how to defend him, and he/they can't adjust.


Of course! It couldn't possibly be a combination of things.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:13 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
jammer wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
You don't know that anymore than I do. We can speculate, but the point is that Henne is the reason this offense has completely stalled out. Teams know exactly how to defend him, and he/they can't adjust.


Of course! It couldn't possibly be a combination of things.


Like I said Dan Henning and Sparano deserve their fair share. But ultimately it's on the QB.

At the end of his 3rd season, he should know more than, "uh oh, blitz....MAX PROTECT!"......EVERY SINGLE TIME.

I'm so tired of it. We might be the most obvious, bland, predictable offense in the NFL.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:14 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rock Sexton wrote:
Recently? Fine. Prior to the injuries? Not quite. That's a trust/confidence issue Henne lacked. Perhaps that's because his pocket awareness regressed terribly this year.


Whether Henne was the one getting max protect because he called for it or not is irrelavent. The fact is this explains why he had all day to throw and couldn't find anybody early on. It's easy to defend the pass when both receivers running routes are being double-covered.

And if he was the one calling for max-protect, obviously the coaching staff condoned it because they did not take this authority away from him or try to coach him away from it. They probably encouraged him to do it for the sake of protecting the ball (i.e. playing scared, conservative football).

Additionally, Henne has been playing with a bum knee for a good portion of the second half of the season. Might explain his regressing pocket presence and the fact that his throws are less accurate and could be another factor in him attacking downfield less and less.

The fact is his knee is still an issue. When you dislocate a knee cap, it's not a quick fix.

Regardless, when the Dolphins haven't gone to max protect, even early in the season, blitzers and even four man rushes have leaked through like a sieve.

The solution here is to address the interior and right side of the offensive line and to acquire a quarterback to compete with Henne for the starting job.

But to those saying that this is all Henne will ever be, I continue to contend that it is too soon to express this viewpoint given the long history of QBs in their 2nd season starting were still not showing the goods.

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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
You don't know that anymore than I do. We can speculate, but the point is that Henne is the reason this offense has completely stalled out. Teams know exactly how to defend him, and he/they can't adjust.


So I don't know that anymore than you do, but somehow you are able to figure out the reason and I am not.

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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
I'm so tired of it. We might be the most obvious, bland, predictable offense in the NFL.


Do you have a copy of the playbook and an outline of the system to understand what options Henne has based on his recognition of a defense? Could it be that Henning has an oversimplified playbook that does not allow a young QB much leeway in making decisions presnap?

Maybe the only option he is given is "blitz, max protect".

I have yet to see a single Dolphins receiver run a hot read against the blitz this season.

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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
You don't know that anymore than I do. We can speculate, but the point is that Henne is the reason this offense has completely stalled out. Teams know exactly how to defend him, and he/they can't adjust.


So I don't know that anymore than you do, but somehow you are able to figure out the reason and I am not.


Huh?

I said that you don't know what the coaching staff is telling him to do and neither do I.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:21 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
I'm so tired of it. We might be the most obvious, bland, predictable offense in the NFL.


Do you have a copy of the playbook and an outline of the system to understand what options Henne has based on his recognition of a defense? Could it be that Henning has an oversimplified playbook that does not allow a young QB much leeway in making decisions presnap?

Maybe the only option he is given is "blitz, max protect".

I have yet to see a single Dolphins receiver run a hot read against the blitz this season.


How do you that they aren't?

And if the only option given to him is "blitz, mac protect" that's a major problem as well because it shows how little this coaching staff trusts him. Also shows his lack of ability to get it.


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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
You don't know that anymore than I do. We can speculate, but the point is that Henne is the reason this offense has completely stalled out. Teams know exactly how to defend him, and he/they can't adjust.


So I don't know that anymore than you do, but somehow you are able to figure out the reason and I am not.


Huh?

I said that you don't know what the coaching staff is telling him to do and neither do I.


Right, but you're allowed to reach conclusions and I am not.

There's a word for that. Starts with an H and ends with a ypocrisy.

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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
I'm so tired of it. We might be the most obvious, bland, predictable offense in the NFL.


Do you have a copy of the playbook and an outline of the system to understand what options Henne has based on his recognition of a defense? Could it be that Henning has an oversimplified playbook that does not allow a young QB much leeway in making decisions presnap?

Maybe the only option he is given is "blitz, max protect".

I have yet to see a single Dolphins receiver run a hot read against the blitz this season.


How do you that they aren't?

And if the only option given to him is "blitz, mac protect" that's a major problem as well because it shows how little this coaching staff trusts him. Also shows his lack of ability to get it.


One could make the argument that them not having trust in him is a flaw in the coaching staff rather than the player. In fact, I would argue that them not showing him trust has been detrimental to his growth because it has made him play scare.

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Post Re: QB Discussion
Again, a name missing from this conversation is David Lee. He is the QB coach who couldn't do anything with Pat White (although that isn't saying much) and has had Henne for 3 years now. I've seen Sparano go straight to Lee on the sidelines after Henne makes mistakes, perhaps he isn't all he's cracked up to be.

When I watch this offense I see a combination of everything that's being said here - the O-line breaks down which causes Henne to be over cautious and call for max protect, then when our 2 receivers are covered he's forced to check it down to a back who just came off a block and isn't in any position to make a catch. Combine that with sporadic and incosistent play calling and the offense is a mess. It's sad, really, because 90% of us thought that the offense would be the team's strong point this year.

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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:

Like I said Dan Henning and Sparano deserve their fair share. But ultimately it's on the QB.


But nothing for the 21st ranked run game which averages WAY less than 4 YPC? You know . . . the one that STINKS even on a good day (a la v the Raiders). Or nothing for our OLine that leaks like a sieve and can't block a pee-wee defense in either the run or the pass?

Yeah. It's all Chad Henne. It can't have anything at all to do with the other 10 guys on offense who aren't doing their jobs adequately.

Last I checked, Phins Rock, football is still a team sport predicated on all 11 guys doing their jobs. Read closely, PR.

Mike Berardino wrote:
The way Bills cornerback Drayton Florence saw things, it was a lack of trust that held back the Miami Dolphins on Sunday.

Trust in Chad Henne from the Dolphins’ coaching staff.

Trust in the offensive line’s ability to protect Henne’s sprained left knee.

Trust in the receivers’ ability to make plays downfield.


So this business about Checkdown Chad? Is that an accurate tag of dismissal on a quarterback now 13-12 as an NFL starter?

“Nah, he’ s a good quarterback,” Florence said. “But if he doesn’t have that trust … ”

Florence, an eighth-year pro out of Tuskegee who has spent time with the Chargers and Jaguars, shook his head.

“Pass coverage isn’t just [against] him throwing the ball,” he said. “They’ve got to protect.”


http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_fo ... inel+Blogs)

You'd think, according to your analysis of our offense that everyone else is doing their job and only Chad Henne is not.

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Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:54 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
It's getting pretty old having people on these forums who place all the blame for the team on one person's shoulders, then say they aren't, yet say in another breath that it is. Come on guys, the offense failing is on several shoulders. The buck does not stop with any one person, it is a TEAM effort at screwing up or succeeding. Ultimately though, the buck will stop with the coach, because he is responsible for getting players on the field who can play the game. He is also expected to produce results.
I'm starting to get the feeling that Sparano is just another Wandstedt, two overly conservative coaches who are afraid to win and have no idea how to coach a team. Sure they are nice guys, sure they can command player respect, but they don't know the first thing about coaching players or a team. There is no excuse for our offensive line to be as poor as it is, none. This was supposed to be a strength.
Where this is leading is that I believe our coaching staff has failed in training Henne. Henne's failures on the the field are ultimately on Henne, but it is up to the coaches to prepare them. When you see a player regress as badly as he has this season, there has to be an underlying reason, and I'm fairly convinced it's mostly on poor coaching.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:00 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
I know they don't trust him. But is it because they are that stubborn, or because they know he can't handle it?

We can speculate, and we'll probably find out the answer next season. But right now it doesn't matter. Teams know how to defend Henne and there is nothing that we can do to stop it.

Matt Ryan, on a short week of preparation (Thursday Night), was running a no huddle offense against the Ravens......Baltimore......the Ravens........calling his own plays, and shredding them to pieces. All Henne knows how to do is say, "oh no, blitz, max protect".

At this point I don't care whose "fault" it is. It is what it is.

Indy, NO, GB, Chicago all run for fewer ypg than Miami. San Diego, Atlanta, Baltimore are additional teams that run for less than 4 ypc.

Those are teams with top QB's and most are serious contenders and very potent offenses. I'm tired of using a poor run game as an excuse. It's a problem, not the problem with Henne.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:05 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
eleaf wrote:
But nothing for the 21st ranked run game which averages WAY less than 4 YPC? You know . . . the one that STINKS even on a good day (a la v the Raiders). Or nothing for our OLine that leaks like a sieve and can't block a pee-wee defense in either the run or the pass?

Yeah. It's all Chad Henne. It can't have anything at all to do with the other 10 guys on offense who aren't doing their jobs adequately.

Last I checked, Phins Rock, football is still a team sport predicated on all 11 guys doing their jobs. Read closely, PR.


Funny thing about "protection" ..... the following QB's and the amount of sacks they've endured this year .....

1. Cutler (43)
2. Flacco (35)
3. Schaub (32)
4. Rivers (32)
5. Bradford (30)
5. Roethlisberger (29)
6. Vick (28)
7. Rodgers (27)
8. Henne (25)
9. Brady (24)

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Last edited by Rock Sexton on Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:18 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
I know they don't trust him. But is it because they are that stubborn, or because they know he can't handle it?


Oh they clearly do not trust that man. As evidenced by the playcalling .... and at times when he's been given opportunities to prove himself he's squandered it with with his erratic play. I'm gonna side with logic on this one, if they player was capable and ready we wouldn't be seeing this.

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Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:22 pm
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