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 QB Discussion 
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
I know they don't trust him. But is it because they are that stubborn, or because they know he can't handle it?

Well....... we do know that they are stubborn; that is a known issue with this coaching staff.

Phins Rock wrote:
Teams know how to defend Henne and there is nothing that we can do to stop it.

Teams know how to defend our offense. Stop placing ALL the blame on Henne.

Phins Rock wrote:
Matt Ryan, on a short week of preparation (Thursday Night), was running a no huddle offense against the Ravens......Baltimore......the Ravens........calling his own plays, and shredding them to pieces.

Yes, Matt Ryan is a pro bowl qb. He is much better than Henne. He is also better than most of the qbs in this league; your point?

Phins Rock wrote:
All Henne knows how to do is say, "oh no, blitz, max protect".

Over-exaggerating your point actually weakens your argument. All??

Phins Rock wrote:
At this point I don't care whose "fault" it is. It is what it is.

If I were to quote you from across several threads, it would be clear to everyone that this is not the case. You blame Henne for just about everything. You clearly have bias against the guy and are lacking objectivity.

Phins Rock wrote:
Indy, NO, GB, Chicago all run for fewer ypg than Miami. San Diego, Atlanta, Baltimore are additional teams that run for less than 4 ypc.

Yes, and yet they run the ball. We average over 4 yards a carry and only run it 15 times. You making a good argument for 'poor coaching' being the largest reason for our team's failure.

Phins Rock wrote:
Those are teams with top QB's and most are serious contenders and very potent offenses.

This is an obvious statement. Your point?

Phins Rock wrote:
I'm tired of using a poor run game as an excuse. It's a problem, not the problem with Henne.

No, its not "the" problem with Henne, it's "A" problem for our entire offense.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:23 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rock Sexton wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
I know they don't trust him. But is it because they are that stubborn, or because they know he can't handle it?


Oh they clearly do not trust that man. As evidenced by the playcalling .... and at times when he's been given opportunities to prove himself he's squandered it with with his erratic play. I'm gonna side with logic on this one, if they player was capable and ready we wouldn't be seeing this.

Again, it's not just the player, it is a combination of things.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:24 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phin wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
I know they don't trust him. But is it because they are that stubborn, or because they know he can't handle it?

Well....... we do know that they are stubborn; that is a known issue with this coaching staff.

Stubborn enough to stick with something that hasn't worked for 16 weeks?

Quote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Teams know how to defend Henne and there is nothing that we can do to stop it.

Teams know how to defend our offense. Stop placing ALL the blame on Henne.

I'm not. But the offense is lead by the QB. And the QB does the same thing in the same situations every week, and D's know it.

Quote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Matt Ryan, on a short week of preparation (Thursday Night), was running a no huddle offense against the Ravens......Baltimore......the Ravens........calling his own plays, and shredding them to pieces.

Yes, Matt Ryan is a pro bowl qb. He is much better than Henne. He is also better than most of the qbs in this league; your point?

He's from the same draft class as Chad Henne, and a guy we passed up. I could have also brought up several other examples like Josh Freeman, Joe Flacco, Sam Bradford, etc....all young QB's who are WAY ahead of Henne and whose coaching staff trusts them much more.

Quote:
Phins Rock wrote:
All Henne knows how to do is say, "oh no, blitz, max protect".

Over-exaggerating your point actually weakens your argument. All??

So what else does Henne do on passing situations when defenses show blitz pre-snap?

Quote:
Phins Rock wrote:
At this point I don't care whose "fault" it is. It is what it is.

If I were to quote you from across several threads, it would be clear to everyone that this is not the case. You blame Henne for just about everything. You clearly have bias against the guy and are lacking objectivity.

I blame him the most for the offense's overall ineptness. I have made it clear that Henning and Tony deserve plenty of blame as well. But it starts and ends with the QB.

Quote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Indy, NO, GB, Chicago all run for fewer ypg than Miami. San Diego, Atlanta, Baltimore are additional teams that run for less than 4 ypc.

Yes, and yet they run the ball. We average over 4 yards a carry and only run it 15 times. You making a good argument for 'poor coaching' being the largest reason for our team's failure.

Actually most of their attempts are less than ours. And we run it for less than 4 ypc....

Quote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Those are teams with top QB's and most are serious contenders and very potent offenses.

This is an obvious statement. Your point?

Saying that a poor run game is not an excuse for bad QB play or the 31st ranked scoring offense.

Quote:
Phins Rock wrote:
I'm tired of using a poor run game as an excuse. It's a problem, not the problem with Henne.

No, its not "the" problem with Henne, it's "A" problem for our entire offense.


Yes it is. But people make it seem like a QB needs a good run game to be successful (e:leaf).


Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:34 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
I know they don't trust him. But is it because they are that stubborn, or because they know he can't handle it?


Or could it be that they don't trust the OLine to protect adequately? Just a guess being as they have ABSOLUTELY been the weakest link on this team all season. They can't run block. They can't pass block.

Quote:
I'm tired of using a poor run game as an excuse. It's a problem, not the problem with Henne.


Look at what happened to your buddy Matty Ice last season when his run game was sub-par.

(Hint: EVERY SINGLE STAT WAS AFFECTED ADVERSELY. Fewer TDs, more INTs, lower completion percentage, etc. Every. Single. Facet). Why you are so quick to dismiss our SECOND TO LAST IN THE LEAGUE YPC offense I'm not sure. Likely because it fits your theory that Henne is the only real problem on offense we have.

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Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:40 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
eleaf wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
I know they don't trust him. But is it because they are that stubborn, or because they know he can't handle it?


Or could it be that they don't trust the OLine to protect adequately? Just a guess being as they have ABSOLUTELY been the weakest link on this team all season. They can't run block. They can't pass block.

Quote:
I'm tired of using a poor run game as an excuse. It's a problem, not the problem with Henne.


Look at what happened to your buddy Matty Ice last season when his run game was sub-par.

(Hint: EVERY SINGLE STAT WAS AFFECTED ADVERSELY. Fewer TDs, more INTs, lower completion percentage, etc. Every. Single. Facet). Why you are so quick to dismiss our SECOND TO LAST IN THE LEAGUE YPC offense I'm not sure. Likely because it fits your theory that Henne is the only real problem on offense we have.


He still had 22 TDs to 14 INTs. The stats went down, but they weren't atrocious like Henne's are.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:42 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
He's from the same draft class as Chad Henne, and a guy we passed up. I could have also brought up several other examples like Josh Freeman, Joe Flacco, Sam Bradford, etc....all young QB's who are WAY ahead of Henne and whose coaching staff trusts them much more.

Bradford was the first overall pick in last year's draft; it would have been WAY too much to trade up and draft him. At any rate, this is spilled milk, and has nothing to do with Henne, and everything to do with the decision making of our regime. Your peeing and moaning about things that have nothing to do with Henne. I think your frustration over us not having one of those guys has clouded your judgement in regards to evaluating Henne's progress.
At any rate, it is clear to me that you have lost all objectivity in this discussion and it would be a waste of time for me to continue to discuss this with you. I respect your opinion, though I differ with it.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:43 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
eleaf wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
I know they don't trust him. But is it because they are that stubborn, or because they know he can't handle it?


Or could it be that they don't trust the OLine to protect adequately? Just a guess being as they have ABSOLUTELY been the weakest link on this team all season. They can't run block. They can't pass block.

Quote:
I'm tired of using a poor run game as an excuse. It's a problem, not the problem with Henne.


Look at what happened to your buddy Matty Ice last season when his run game was sub-par.

(Hint: EVERY SINGLE STAT WAS AFFECTED ADVERSELY. Fewer TDs, more INTs, lower completion percentage, etc. Every. Single. Facet). Why you are so quick to dismiss our SECOND TO LAST IN THE LEAGUE YPC offense I'm not sure. Likely because it fits your theory that Henne is the only real problem on offense we have.


He still had 22 TDs to 14 INTs. The stats went down, but they weren't atrocious like Henne's are.


He didn't have an OLine that necessitated max protection on anything that was going any longer than 10 yards downfield.

And TDs to INTs are not the only stat. EVERYTHING went down. Everything. And how can you say that Henne's stats are "atrocious" when everything is BETTER than last year. These same stats lead us to believe that Henne was on the right path after last season. But now that he has done BETTER than last season, they're atrocious just because ou want them to be.

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Post Re: QB Discussion
If Henne could make quick reads and make accurate passes, he wouldn't need max protect.

I don't care what they are compared to last year. They are still atrocious.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:14 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
If Henne could make quick reads and make accurate passes, he wouldn't need max protect.

I don't care what they are compared to last year. They are still atrocious.


Phin is right. Your analysis is clouded by your hatred of all things Henne. It's a mockery of reason and sensible argumentation.

So here's your argument: It doesn't matter that we went from a top-level running team to a bottom-level running team between last year and this, and you don't care that Henne's numbers have improved in virtually every category over last year. The offense's problems all start and end with Chad Henne.

:hithead:

Remember, we all have the right to our own opinion, but not to our own FACTS. When the FACTS say one thing, the only reasonable course of argumentation certainly isn't dismissing them in favor of our own version of reality.

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Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:30 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
eleaf wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
If Henne could make quick reads and make accurate passes, he wouldn't need max protect.

I don't care what they are compared to last year. They are still atrocious.


Phin is right. Your analysis is clouded by your hatred of all things Henne. It's a mockery of reason and sensible argumentation.

So here's your argument: It doesn't matter that we went from a top-level running team to a bottom-level running team between last year and this, and you don't care that Henne's numbers have improved in virtually every category over last year. The offense's problems all start and end with Chad Henne.

:hithead:

Remember, we all have the right to our own opinion, but not to our own FACTS. When the FACTS say one thing, the only reasonable course of argumentation certainly isn't dismissing them in favor of our own version of reality.


His comp. pct., yards, and TD's barely went up. His INT's also went up. So, are his stats really better?

While the run game is poor, you could argue that the WR core he had last year was as poor as this year's run game, and the addition of Marshall, Bess being in his 3rd year, Hartline a year older is as big of an increase in talent at WR as the run game has diminished.

My argument is not that Henne gets the sole blame. It is that the run game and coaching staff being an excuse for poor decision making, inaccurate throws, and being ultra conservative is not valid.

He's at the end of his 3rd season. He should not be making the same mistakes week after week after week. He should be a solid starter at this point, and he is not even close to what Ryan, Flacco, Freeman, etc. are right now.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:42 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
It is that the run game and coaching staff being an excuse for poor decision making, inaccurate throws, and being ultra conservative is not valid.

Good point, however most reasonable people on this forum haven't been trying to justify those things. Clearly Henne has to improve those areas of his game. What most level headed people are trying to say is that there are many things that are leading to him having a tough time this season, and the offense as a whole struggling. It's not all him, but there certainly are things that are his fault. He isn't in a vacuum, things such as a poor run game, crappy coaching/coordinator, and a banged up and thin offensive line are going to effect other areas of his game, as well as his confidence and composure. He many not be an instant success like Flacco, Ryan, Freeman, and some others, but that is not to say that he can't develop into a solid starter in this league.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:00 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phin wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
It is that the run game and coaching staff being an excuse for poor decision making, inaccurate throws, and being ultra conservative is not valid.

Good point, however most reasonable people on this forum haven't been trying to justify those things. Clearly Henne has to improve those areas of his game. What most level headed people are trying to say is that there are many things that are leading to him having a tough time this season, and the offense as a whole struggling. It's not all him, but there certainly are things that are his fault. He isn't in a vacuum, things such as a poor run game, crappy coaching/coordinator, and a banged up and thin offensive line are going to effect other areas of his game, as well as his confidence and composure. He many not be an instant success like Flacco, Ryan, Freeman, and some others, but that is not to say that he can't develop into a solid starter in this league.


Completely agree with everything you said.

The run game and O-line are issues that need to be fixed. Period. I agree.

But I'm just targeting eleaf, because he keeps trying to make me argue that it's all Henne, and that he should completely make up for every deficiency on offense, which is not what I'm saying.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:50 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
But I'm just targeting eleaf, because he keeps trying to make me argue that it's all Henne, and that he should completely make up for every deficiency on offense, which is not what I'm saying.


Exactly.

There are issues related to the rest of the offense and the issues Henne bares on his own.

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Post Re: QB Discussion
2008:
LT: Long
LG: Smiley for 11 games, Alleman for rest
C: Satele
RG: Ndukwe
RT: Carey
TE: Fasano

WR1: Greg Camarillo/Bess
WR2: Ginn

RB: Ronnie+Ricky

2010:
LT: Long
LG: Incognito
C: Berger
RG: Jerry
RT: Carey
TE: Fasano

WR1: Marshall
WR2: Hartline/Bess
RB: Ronnie + Ricky

The 2008 offensive line had the same OT combo, with Long being a rookie in 2008. Safe to say that combo is better in 2010. The OG combo was even worse for the last 6 games as this year's is. Smiley was better than what Incognito gives now, but give me Berger over Satele. We'll call the O-line even.

TE: Fasano is 2 years older/"better".

WR: Obvious major increase.

RB: While Ronnie is healthier, he's older, as is Ricky.

The 2008 offense had 21.6 ppg and 346 ypg. This year's is at 17.1 and 321.

The ST's unit that year was as putrid as this year's unit, and that year's defense was solid, but not nearly what this year's D is.

This year's team played 5 playoff teams (2 twice), while in 2008 we played 4 (1 twice).

This year's team is better than in 2008, and while the schedule is a little bit tougher, it is not the difference between 11-5 and an AFC East crown and currently 7-7 despite boasting one of the top 5 D's in the league.

The difference? Anybody want to guess??


Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:19 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
Yes it is. But people make it seem like a QB needs a good run game to be successful (e:leaf).


I'll bet you can't find where I wrote that.

What I have been arguing for WEEKS is not that one can't have a good run game for a QB to be successful, but that our team needs a good running game for our offense to be successful. Everything about this team is built to run the ball. When we can't, for whatever reason, nothing else will work.

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Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:06 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
eleaf wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
If Henne could make quick reads and make accurate passes, he wouldn't need max protect.

I don't care what they are compared to last year. They are still atrocious.


Phin is right. Your analysis is clouded by your hatred of all things Henne. It's a mockery of reason and sensible argumentation.

So here's your argument: It doesn't matter that we went from a top-level running team to a bottom-level running team between last year and this, and you don't care that Henne's numbers have improved in virtually every category over last year. The offense's problems all start and end with Chad Henne.

:hithead:

Remember, we all have the right to our own opinion, but not to our own FACTS. When the FACTS say one thing, the only reasonable course of argumentation certainly isn't dismissing them in favor of our own version of reality.



We never had a run game when Marino was here and he had us in the playoffs almost every year


Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:09 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
swerve13 wrote:
We never had a run game when Marino was here and he had us in the playoffs almost every year


NOW we are getting to the meat of the matter.

Dolphins fans still expecting the next Marino are perpetually disappointed.

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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rich wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
We never had a run game when Marino was here and he had us in the playoffs almost every year


NOW we are getting to the meat of the matter.

Dolphins fans still expecting the next Marino are perpetually disappointed.



my point being that the good quarterbacks don't need a perfect offense around them to succeed.
Rivers went a span of games this year missing his top 3 receivers and was still kicking butt.
The good ones don't take long to become good.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:12 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
swerve13 wrote:
The good ones don't take long to become good.


Comical. You mentioned Rich Gannon earlier. Took him TWELVE YEARS to become good.

Took Elway about 10 years to put up Pro Bowl numbers. Took Young his second team to become a Hall of Famer. Took Aikman his 4th season to show Dallas something. Took Drew Brees three years. He was considered a bust in San Diego until then.

So your comment that I quoted above can be soundly and repeatedly refuted.

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Post Re: QB Discussion
eleaf wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Yes it is. But people make it seem like a QB needs a good run game to be successful (e:leaf).


I'll bet you can't find where I wrote that.

What I have been arguing for WEEKS is not that one can't have a good run game for a QB to be successful, but that our team needs a good running game for our offense to be successful. Everything about this team is built to run the ball. When we can't, for whatever reason, nothing else will work.


How so?

Are Bess, Hartline and Marshall "running offense" WR's?
Is Joe Berger, John Jerry, Vernon Carey, Jake Long a run first O-line?

Is Chad Henne a QB that needs a run game? It seems like this is what you are insinuating.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:20 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rich wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
The good ones don't take long to become good.


Comical. You mentioned Rich Gannon earlier. Took him TWELVE YEARS to become good.

Took Elway about 10 years to put up Pro Bowl numbers. Took Young his second team to become a Hall of Famer. Took Aikman his 4th season to show Dallas something. Took Drew Brees three years. He was considered a bust in San Diego until then.

So your comment that I quoted above can be soundly and repeatedly refuted.


You can find those exceptions, but most great QB's are good from early on.

BTW, Elway took his team (which supposedly had nothing) to SB's multiple times in his first 10 years. Not sure where that statement comes from?


Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:21 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
You can find those exceptions, but most great QB's are good from early on.


Actually you have it backwards. The majority of great QBs took time to develop. The Marinos that are good from day one are rare.

Quote:
BTW, Elway took his team (which supposedly had nothing) to SB's multiple times in his first 10 years. Not sure where that statement comes from?


Um.... his stats?

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Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:27 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
swerve13 wrote:
eleaf wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
If Henne could make quick reads and make accurate passes, he wouldn't need max protect.

I don't care what they are compared to last year. They are still atrocious.


Phin is right. Your analysis is clouded by your hatred of all things Henne. It's a mockery of reason and sensible argumentation.

So here's your argument: It doesn't matter that we went from a top-level running team to a bottom-level running team between last year and this, and you don't care that Henne's numbers have improved in virtually every category over last year. The offense's problems all start and end with Chad Henne.

:hithead:

Remember, we all have the right to our own opinion, but not to our own FACTS. When the FACTS say one thing, the only reasonable course of argumentation certainly isn't dismissing them in favor of our own version of reality.



We never had a run game when Marino was here and he had us in the playoffs almost every year


Those teams were built for Marino to throw the ball 40 times a game, and the line was built to protect him at all costs. Everything about those teams was done so that Marino could do what he does best. The playbook. The philosophy. Everything.

This team is not built the same way. This team is built to pound the rock.

Your comparison is not very good at all. It's clutching at straws.

And even if it were valid, how many titles did we win with Marino and no running game or defense?

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Post Re: QB Discussion
Quote:
Elway stormed into the mile-high air as one of the most highly anticipated athletes in the history of the NFL. The local newspapers ran a section that was called "The Elway Watch".[citation needed]

Elway would debut that season in the Broncos season opener against the Pittsburgh Steelers at Three Rivers Stadium. He was sacked for the first time in his NFL career at the hands of linebacker and fellow Hall of Famer Jack Lambert.

Although the Broncos were playoff contenders for his early years, Elway would go through the normal growing pains of a young NFL quarterback.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Elway

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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rich wrote:
Quote:
BTW, Elway took his team (which supposedly had nothing) to SB's multiple times in his first 10 years. Not sure where that statement comes from?


Um.... his stats?


Well he must have done something right....Got to more SB's than Marino did, and supposedly (and I use that word because I have no idea...just from what I've read and seen in documentaries), had just as lackluster talent around him.

Brady doesn't have Manning's numbers, but he is every bit the QB, and I would argue that Brady is the better one.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:29 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
Well he must have done something right....Got to more SB's than Marino did, and supposedly (and I use that word because I have no idea...just from what I've read and seen in documentaries), had just as lackluster talent around him.


Guess you've never heard of the Three Amigos.

Stick to what you know....

Quote:
Brady doesn't have Manning's numbers, but he is every bit the QB, and I would argue that Brady is the better one.


And they both took time to develop....

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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Well he must have done something right....Got to more SB's than Marino did, and supposedly (and I use that word because I have no idea...just from what I've read and seen in documentaries), had just as lackluster talent around him.


Guess you've never heard of the Three Amigos.

Stick to what you know....

Quote:
Brady doesn't have Manning's numbers, but he is every bit the QB, and I would argue that Brady is the better one.


And they both took time to develop....


Manning was ballin' from day 1, and Brady won a SB in his second season, and first as a starter.......


Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:32 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
Manning was ballin' from day 1


He threw TWENTY EIGHT PICKS his first year.

Quote:
and Brady won a SB in his second season, and first as a starter.......


The exceptional defense had nothing to do with that of course...

Brady was considered a "caretaker" QB early in his career.

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Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:37 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rich wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
The good ones don't take long to become good.


Comical. You mentioned Rich Gannon earlier. Took him TWELVE YEARS to become good.

Took Elway about 10 years to put up Pro Bowl numbers. Took Young his second team to become a Hall of Famer. Took Aikman his 4th season to show Dallas something. Took Drew Brees three years. He was considered a bust in San Diego until then.

So your comment that I quoted above can be soundly and repeatedly refuted.



10 years for Elway? He had his team fighting deep into the playoffs often and early in his career


Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:38 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
[*]Stick to what you know....


comments like this are belittling and completely unnecessary


Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:43 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Manning was ballin' from day 1


He threw TWENTY EIGHT PICKS his first year.

Quote:
and Brady won a SB in his second season, and first as a starter.......


The exceptional defense had nothing to do with that of course...

Brady was considered a "caretaker" QB early in his career.


They were the 24th ranked D that year....and Brady won the Super Bowl. He must have been good....

And Manning also had 26 TD's and almost 4000 yards. His 2nd season he had a QB rating of 90 and never looked back.

I didn't say from day 1 that most QB's were good, but early on. Both those guys were VERY good early on in their careers.


Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:44 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
They were the 24th ranked D that year....and Brady won the Super Bowl. He must have been good....


They were ranked 6th in scoring defense.

Quote:
Both those guys were VERY good early on in their careers.


Is Henne late in his career or something?

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Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:50 pm
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Jeff Fisher will be the one that gets the boot.


Hire him.


I wouldn't mind seeing Fisher as our offensive coordinator. Might be the kind of breath of fresh air our offense needs. Also the guy will have a chip on his shoulder and want to prove his worth. Sometimes guys just don't work out as head coaches, yet they make great coordinators. Just look at Mike Nolan.

As far as quarterback, I think we need to hire Dan Marino again. Marino was dead right as far as us needing to go after Roethlisberger. You have Marino break down the quarterbacks in this years draft and if he finds a guy that is worthy then you do what is necessary to get him in the first round. If nobody is worthy or we cannot make the trade happen for whatever reason, then you sign a veteran to come in and compete. Henne will compete with whoever comes in for the starting job, be it a rookie first rounder or a veteran.


Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:10 am
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Post Re: QB Discussion
obviously both sides are entrenched in their positions....fine some of you think Henne is or will be a bust.....gotcha!!!..and some others think some more time, a better set of circumstances ie...decent OC, decent running game etc are needed before they give up on Henne...gotcha!!! I happen to fall in the second group, but can see no one will change the first groups mind!! What I can say for a fact is that Marino has stated that the Dolphins FANS rush to judgment to quick when it comes to the QB position, so I am gonna have to go with his assessment...One thing I do know is that there will be some changes in the off season, focused on our offense...that should make everyone happy...just as sure as everyone won't agree with what the changes are...but the personal attacks on our own players seems a bit harsh...especially from their own team's fans. :boo: :boo:


Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:06 am
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Post Re: QB Discussion
swerve13 wrote:
10 years for Elway? He had his team fighting deep into the playoffs often and early in his career


Here are his QB ratings by season for his career.

54.9
76.8
70.2
79.0
83.4
71.4
73.7
78.5
75.4
65.7
92.8
85.7
86.4
89.2
87.5
93.0

It was in his 11th season that he started playing at the level we remember him for.

How about his TD to INT ratio:

7-14
18-15
22-23
19-13
19-12
17-19
18-18
15-14
13-12
10-17
25-10
16-10
26-14
26-14
27-11
22-10

Man he would not survive THIS fanbase by posting those numbers for the 1st ten seasons of his career. Especially when fans love to compare our QB to other team's QBs that are posting way better numbers than those.

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Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:10 am
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Post Re: QB Discussion
wkloiber13 wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing Fisher as our offensive coordinator.


That doesn't make any sense. Why would we hire Fisher as an offensive coordinator when his specialty is defense?

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Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:12 am
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Rock Sexton wrote:
eleaf wrote:
But nothing for the 21st ranked run game which averages WAY less than 4 YPC? You know . . . the one that STINKS even on a good day (a la v the Raiders). Or nothing for our OLine that leaks like a sieve and can't block a pee-wee defense in either the run or the pass?

Yeah. It's all Chad Henne. It can't have anything at all to do with the other 10 guys on offense who aren't doing their jobs adequately.

Last I checked, Phins Rock, football is still a team sport predicated on all 11 guys doing their jobs. Read closely, PR.


Funny thing about "protection" ..... the following QB's and the amount of sacks they've endured this year .....

1. Cutler (43)
2. Flacco (35)
3. Schaub (32)
4. Rivers (32)
5. Bradford (30)
5. Roethlisberger (29)
6. Vick (28)
7. Rodgers (27)
8. Henne (25)
9. Brady (24)


Perhaps all those max protects worked.

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Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:21 am
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Post Re: QB Discussion
swerve13 wrote:
[*]Stick to what you know....


comments like this are belittling and completely unnecessary


When directed at an 18 year old who wasn't alive to see John Elway play during those early Superbowl runs but wants to act as if he knows all about him, it is well deserved.

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Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:23 am
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Post Re: QB Discussion
Phins Rock wrote:
2008:
LT: Long
LG: Smiley for 11 games, Alleman for rest
C: Satele
RG: Ndukwe
RT: Carey
TE: Fasano

WR1: Greg Camarillo/Bess
WR2: Ginn

RB: Ronnie+Ricky

2010:
LT: Long
LG: Incognito
C: Berger
RG: Jerry
RT: Carey
TE: Fasano

WR1: Marshall
WR2: Hartline/Bess
RB: Ronnie + Ricky

The 2008 offensive line had the same OT combo, with Long being a rookie in 2008. Safe to say that combo is better in 2010. The OG combo was even worse for the last 6 games as this year's is. Smiley was better than what Incognito gives now, but give me Berger over Satele. We'll call the O-line even.

TE: Fasano is 2 years older/"better".

WR: Obvious major increase.

RB: While Ronnie is healthier, he's older, as is Ricky.

The 2008 offense had 21.6 ppg and 346 ypg. This year's is at 17.1 and 321.

The ST's unit that year was as putrid as this year's unit, and that year's defense was solid, but not nearly what this year's D is.

This year's team played 5 playoff teams (2 twice), while in 2008 we played 4 (1 twice).

This year's team is better than in 2008, and while the schedule is a little bit tougher, it is not the difference between 11-5 and an AFC East crown and currently 7-7 despite boasting one of the top 5 D's in the league.

The difference? Anybody want to guess??


(Raising my hand, jumping out of my seat to answer)

The Wildcat completely baffling weaker opponents. Its been figured out.

Also add that the o-line this year has Carey playing hurt the majority of the season and Long has had some nagging injuries, McQuistan/Jerry have been worse than Ndwuke with poor pulling ability, and Fasano/Martin were a better blocking combo than Fasano/fill in the practice squad guy of the week.

The team in 08 was really not as good as some perceive and this year's team is not as good as anticipated.


Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:17 pm
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