View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:50 am



Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
 A Henne observation 
Author Message
Phinfever Global Moderator
Phinfever Global Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 7532
Location: Massachusetts
Post Re: A Henne observation
I hate to make this argument, but there is a reason that QB's fall into the 2nd round.

They clearly have the talent/physical tools, or they wouldn't be such a high pick. But there is something missing in there game that keeps them out of the first round.

How many QB's, besides Drew Brees, that were drafted in the 2nd round have won a Super Bowl? Or even became a legit starter in the NFL? I'm sure there are some, but the percentage is extremely small.

2nd rounders from this decade:

Marques Tuiasosopo - Bust
Quincy Carter - Bust
Drew Brees
Tarvaris Jackson - Bust
Kellen Clemons - Bust
Drew Stanton - Bust
John Beck - Bust
Kevin Kolb
Chad Henne
Brian Brohm - Bust
Jimmy Clausen - Early indications are not good.

Taking out Henne, and the obvious exception in Brees, that's 8 out of 9 that have been busts, and Kevin Kolb who we don't know about.

Now first rounders:

Chad Pennington
Michael Vick
Patrick Ramsey
Joey Harrington
David Carr
Rex Grossman
Kyle Boller
Carson Palmer
J.P. Losman
Big Ben
Phillip Rivers
Eli Manning
Alex Smith
Aaron Rodgers
Jason Campbell
Jay Cutler
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Brady Quinn
JaMarcus Russell
Joe Flacco
Matt Ryan
Matt Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Sam Bradford
and of course....Tim Tebow

If the first round is 50/50, the 2nd round is a death sentence....

Just sayin'...


Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:02 pm
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21317
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: A Henne observation
Drew Stanton, who you said was tearing it up for some reason... is a 2nd round pick.

Brett Favre, Randall Cunningham and Boomer Esiason were also 2nd round picks.

_________________
Image


Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:13 pm
Profile
2013 Phinfever VIP Donor
2013 Phinfever VIP Donor

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Posts: 5718
Location: Topsfield, MA
Post Re: A Henne observation
Rock Sexton wrote:
C'mon man .... look at the names the article floats out there ..... You mean to tell me that that was by accident? It's entirely self-serving when in actuality it lacks any practical data to support the idea that Henne could turn into one because they did. If we're going to argue that Henne "could be" then fine, any player at any position "could be" if given the right amount of time.


I'm just saying its a simple example of guys who weren't hot shots right from the get go. I understand that 20 years ago guys were given years to put it together and today if you don't do it in 2-3 seasons you are discarded. The list Battle provided just shows some good players didn't have great numbers at the start of their career.

I just think you're reading too much into it. I'm going off of Battle's post. Missed the article.


Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:13 pm
Profile
2013 Phinfever VIP Donor
2013 Phinfever VIP Donor

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Posts: 5718
Location: Topsfield, MA
Post Re: A Henne observation
So its all about the round and not about the individual?

PR did you ever consider that some of those 2nd round QBs were drafted there because people didn't want to pay 1st round money to them after seeing so many 1st round Qbs tank? Its not always black and white when it comes to why guys slip in the draft.


Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:18 pm
Profile
Phinfever Global Moderator
Phinfever Global Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 7532
Location: Massachusetts
Post Re: A Henne observation
Rich wrote:
Drew Stanton, who you said was tearing it up for some reason... is a 2nd round pick.

Brett Favre, Randall Cunningham and Boomer Esiason were also 2nd round picks.


When did I say Stanton was tearing it up?

And yes, there are exceptions. But 9 out of 10 don't pan out.


Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:27 pm
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21317
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: A Henne observation
Phins Rock wrote:
Rich wrote:
Drew Stanton, who you said was tearing it up for some reason... is a 2nd round pick.

Brett Favre, Randall Cunningham and Boomer Esiason were also 2nd round picks.


When did I say Stanton was tearing it up?

And yes, there are exceptions. But 9 out of 10 don't pan out.


9 out of 10 players don't pan out period.

You said it the other day in an argument with D4me.

_________________
Image


Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:57 am
Profile
Phinfever Global Moderator
Phinfever Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:53 pm
Posts: 3772
Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
Post Re: A Henne observation
Look , Henne can still be a decent QB in this league. Not one of the best but maybe good enough one day to take this team deep into the playoffs , certainly the jury is still out. But even the homers must admit that he regressed from last season. He did show poise last season & the ability to pull out a game in the 4th quarter which is another reason why I bought in this season I thought we would have much more success this year. However he has shown none of that. Bringing up stats is useless & really is just a tease. Bring him back , wont be the wrst thing in the world but then after next season if he fails .... do we agree that it would be time to go another direction for a QB? I bet there are guys who will still want to stick with him.

_________________
Extend Philbin!
Enough already , this is the best regime in the NFL ...by far!!
2014 Lazor Powered... THE MAKING OF A DYNASTY!!


Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:35 am
Profile
2013 Phinfever VIP Donor
2013 Phinfever VIP Donor

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Posts: 5718
Location: Topsfield, MA
Post Re: A Henne observation
FINesse wrote:
Look , Henne can still be a decent QB in this league. Not one of the best but maybe good enough one day to take this team deep into the playoffs , certainly the jury is still out. But even the homers must admit that he regressed from last season. He did show poise last season & the ability to pull out a game in the 4th quarter which is another reason why I bought in this season I thought we would have much more success this year. However he has shown none of that. Bringing up stats is useless & really is just a tease. Bring him back , wont be the wrst thing in the world but then after next season if he fails .... do we agree that it would be time to go another direction for a QB? I bet there are guys who will still want to stick with him.


I disagree that he regressed. I would argue he hit a plateau. Record is about the same, TD/Int ratio about the same, reading defenses probably the same, still prone to multi-Int games. He has improved on his accuracy somewhat. Hasn't taken the next step, turned the corner...pick your cliche.

He's going to need an offseason to fix what is wrong. Its simply not going to get done in between studying and gameplanning each week.

Maybe they don't want to give him an offseason and patience has run out. Or maybe Ireland/Sparano fall in love with a prospect and sign a new veteran as a bridge.

I do think it is very possible he comes out next season and becomes a very good QB. Just understand he isn't going to do it alone. There isn't a young QB out there doing it alone. They are contributing pieces on offenses that are clicking as a whole. Henne needs to do his part, as does the ground game, as does the o-line, as do the receivers.


Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:43 am
Profile
Phinfever Legend
Phinfever Legend
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:48 pm
Posts: 5590
Post Re: A Henne observation
FINesse wrote:
He did show poise last season & the ability to pull out a game in the 4th quarter which is another reason why I bought in this season I thought we would have much more success this year.


Interesting that he's led four 4th quarter comeback drives, 3 that were won with TD's.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... r=HennCh01

..... but yet we've seen him throw untimely int's both last year and this year in the 4th quarter .....

Quote:
() Seven of them — SEVEN — have come in the fourth quarter, including that three-pick burst in the final 2:43 at Buffalo. All of the fourth-quarter picks have come in the final 7:57, including five in the final


http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_fo ... tions.html

_________________
Image


Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:03 pm
Profile
Phinfever Global Moderator
Phinfever Global Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 7532
Location: Massachusetts
Post Re: A Henne observation
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Rich wrote:
Drew Stanton, who you said was tearing it up for some reason... is a 2nd round pick.

Brett Favre, Randall Cunningham and Boomer Esiason were also 2nd round picks.


When did I say Stanton was tearing it up?

And yes, there are exceptions. But 9 out of 10 don't pan out.


9 out of 10 players don't pan out period.

You said it the other day in an argument with D4me.


I can guarantee you I never said that. I think you are thinking of when I said Stafford was tearing it up when he's healthy....Not Stanton. Lol.

And what's your point about 9 out of 10 don't pan out period? How is that relevant to my point? And actually, wouldn't it strengthen it, saying that 2nd round picks have the same low success rate of the overall pool, (mostly made up of late round picks and un-drafted players?).

Almost no 2nd round QB's have panned out over the past decade, and I would assume that is true throughout history. There is a reason they are in the 2nd round.

You can pull out all the exceptions (which are like, what, a handful?), and compare their numbers to Henne's numbers early on, but from what I've seen the guy, (whether it's the coaching staff's fault or whatever), doesn't have IT. Way too bland, scripted, tentative, etc. Needs to just go out there and play football.

When teams run man coverage he does well (like in Oakland). Wow, shocker. If you can't move your offense down the field when Bess and Hartline are running wide open you shouldn't be in the NFL. He's done the minimum with few exceptions, leaves way too many plays out there and doesn't make any of his own.


Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:59 pm
Profile
Phinfever Global Moderator
Phinfever Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:53 pm
Posts: 3772
Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
Post Re: A Henne observation
he was benched this season ... not regression?? Is regression a word?? LOL

_________________
Extend Philbin!
Enough already , this is the best regime in the NFL ...by far!!
2014 Lazor Powered... THE MAKING OF A DYNASTY!!


Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:25 pm
Profile
2013 Phinfever VIP Donor
2013 Phinfever VIP Donor

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Posts: 5718
Location: Topsfield, MA
Post Re: A Henne observation
FINesse wrote:
he was benched this season ... not regression??


Considering he had the same numbers and results last season no he hasn't regressed. He got benched because this is season 2 of similar inconsistent results. That is plateauing, not regressing.


Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:51 pm
Profile
Phinfever Global Moderator
Phinfever Global Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 7532
Location: Massachusetts
Post Re: A Henne observation
jammer wrote:
FINesse wrote:
he was benched this season ... not regression??


Considering he had the same numbers and results last season no he hasn't regressed. He got benched because this is season 2 of similar inconsistent results. That is plateauing, not regressing.


You could say that while the numbers were the same, they should be better just from the fact that the talent around him got better.

His run game is not as potent, no. But the protection, WR position, RB position (with Ronnie healthy), have all improved around him. Even if he didn't improve, his numbers should be better than they were a year ago, and they are not, which to me is very concerning.


Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:53 pm
Profile
2013 Phinfever VIP Donor
2013 Phinfever VIP Donor

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Posts: 5718
Location: Topsfield, MA
Post Re: A Henne observation
Phins Rock wrote:
You could say that while the numbers were the same, they should be better just from the fact that the talent around him got better.

His run game is not as potent, no. But the protection, WR position, RB position (with Ronnie healthy), have all improved around him. Even if he didn't improve, his numbers should be better than they were a year ago, and they are not, which to me is very concerning.


I completely disagree with your assessment. He's playing behind a worse o-line which has eliminated his running game. The fact that there is not a running game has neutralized Brandon Marshall because teams can double and triple cover him without worrying about stacking the box. His protection is better because defenses are using more zone and realizing Henne is not as effective against it. You saw what happened when teams like the Jets and Raiders brought the blitz, Henne shredded them for the most part.

Everyone's numbers should be better but they are not because the o-line is worse, the run game is worse, and Henne is forcing plays and making bad decisions.


Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:06 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Big Dave, Steve Zissou, Yahoo [Bot] and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007, 2010 phpBB Group.
Designed by Coots & IamPZ - Phinfever.com.