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 There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite 
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Post There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
as far as I'm concerned.

Hi all. I used to post some on here a few years back, but I always read what you guys have to say. I love it. Been a Fins fan since I was 5 years old back in 1981. I've seen this team try all sorts of different avenues and philosophies to try to become great, and it's time to stop foolin around and go all in to draft the franchise quarterback we've been missing since Marino retired.

This team is built to the point now where we really dont need to use 10 draft picks again. (especially wasting them on gadget players, bust o-linemen, and underwhelming d-backs)

In my opinion this team is not going any further without a true prototype gunslinger at quarterback. Thats why the Jets and Patriots continue to stay better than us and it makes me sick.

I am almost never in favor of packaging picks and moving up to draft 1 player, but this year I am. another draft full of ends, guards, and corners isnt going to do squat for this team. The why I see it, carolina is going to end up with the first pick in this next draft. And that team does not need to break the bank for a quarterback after landing Clausen last draft. They should be more than willing to trade down. I say we give them our 1st, 3rd, 4th and a player or 2.
Whatever it takes, to go up and get Andrew Luck, the only true franchise QB in this draft. That's what this team is missing and that's what we need to run with the big dogs in this league and our own division.

We've gone long enough without finding a suitable replacement for Dan The Man. I'm ready to go all in....I hope Steven Ross is too.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:08 am
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
swerve13 wrote:
as far as I'm concerned.

Hi all. I used to post some on here a few years back, but I always read what you guys have to say. I love it. Been a Fins fan since I was 5 years old back in 1981. I've seen this team try all sorts of different avenues and philosophies to try to become great, and it's time to stop foolin around and go all in to draft the franchise quarterback we've been missing since Marino retired.

This team is built to the point now where we really dont need to use 10 draft picks again. (especially wasting them on gadget players, bust o-linemen, and underwhelming d-backs)

In my opinion this team is not going any further without a true prototype gunslinger at quarterback. Thats why the Jets and Patriots continue to stay better than us and it makes me sick.

I am almost never in favor of packaging picks and moving up to draft 1 player, but this year I am. another draft full of ends, guards, and corners isnt going to do squat for this team. The why I see it, carolina is going to end up with the first pick in this next draft. And that team does not need to break the bank for a quarterback after landing Clausen last draft. They should be more than willing to trade down. I say we give them our 1st, 3rd, 4th and a player or 2.
Whatever it takes, to go up and get Andrew Luck, the only true franchise QB in this draft. That's what this team is missing and that's what we need to run with the big dogs in this league and our own division.

We've gone long enough without finding a suitable replacement for Dan The Man. I'm ready to go all in....I hope Steven Ross is too.


Fair enough, but you fail to mention:

1) It is FAR from settled as to whether Sanchez will be a top tier QB. He has a *author shudders* pretty good team around him to help him along. I think they are making him look better than he really is. In fact, I'm not sure that the bottom isn't about to fall out from under them as the season wears and they have to play the likes of the Pats and Steelers in the coming weeks.

2) Brady was a 6th round pick who stumbled in to his job because Bledsoe got hurt. It's not like everyone had their eye on him as a potential elite QB from the get-go. He's an accident.

As Parcells says, you can't just call 1-800-getaquarterback and land an elite guy.

Either way, I'm not sure that our QB situation looks worse than it really is because we simply cannot run the ball. We're not helping Henne any this year.

The most important thing we can do to help our team during the offseason is 1) commit to rebuilding our OLine (again) so that we can run, and 2) get a playmaker or two besides Brandon Marshall.

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Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:23 am
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
And to add to that, the oline needs to be rebuilt through the draft. Signing aging vets to huge contracts, who most have injury issues to boot, isn't working. I think of our top 4 picks, two should be spent on the Oline, a legit NT, and another decent WR to compliment Marshall.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:32 am
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
I agree with you on Sanchez. I can't stand all his hype...but I think he has proven to be better than Henne. He shows moxy and the "it" factor Chad just doesnt show. He wills his team to victory, and we haven't had that in 12 years.

I also hear you about Brady, but I'm not banking on finding a franchise QB in the 5th round. He is the exception, not the rule.

I think this team has plenty of playmakers and a better line than most teams and a top 12 defense thats good enough to win a championship.
What this team lacks is a winner at quarterback. I'm not saying Henne is bad, and God knows Henning hasn't done him any favors all year....
but I don't see greatness in him. I see Kerry Collins.
I'm from Reading, PA and live right near the high school that Collins and Henne both went too. They are clones. Stiff, robotic, and easy too read because of their long delivery. I think Parcells realizes now that Henne is not the answer.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:40 am
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
Phin wrote:
And to add to that, the oline needs to be rebuilt through the draft. Signing aging vets to huge contracts, who most have injury issues to boot, isn't working. I think of our top 4 picks, two should be spent on the Oline, a legit NT, and another decent WR to compliment Marshall.


I'm sick of watching this team blow picks and free agent money on the O-line.
I dont trust them to make the right moves. We can win with what we have.
And remember Nate Garner is coming back. And I dont see Nose Tackle as a big need either. The strongest part of this team is the D-line. thats about the only area where the Trifecta hit a homerun.

I think a really good quarterback could succeed throwing to marshall, Bess and Hartline.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:53 am
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
I think once the offensive line is rebuilt and we re-establish the run game you will see much greater production from Henne. When we were running the ball well and utilizing the Wildcat last season Henne was regularly putting up 30+ points a game. Now that we're struggling with the run Henne's production as far as putting up points has slipped. It's simple, fix the offensive line and get the run game going again. If we do that you will see Henne blossom into the quarterback we all wanted.
I think the easiest way to fix the line is to draft a right tackle in the first round this year. Then take a top tier center prospect in the 3rd or 4th round. This would allow Vernon Carey to move back to right guard and it would give us the luxury of having another first round talent at the right tackle position who could step in and replace Jake Long in a pinch. I think at this point in his career Carey would be a better guard than tackle, maybe even an elite guard. The rookie center could develop behind Berger and maybe even surpass him to become the starter in time. If drafting doesn't work then we could also consider looking to free agency to solve our problems. Bottom line, the offensive line is the key to our production. If we can't figure out our line, we will never become an explosive offense.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:25 am
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
most experts think we already have the best tackle tandem.
We spend so many picks and so much free agent money on the offensive line.
Enough already....they've exhausted that area.

This is probably the best pass blocking line in the league this year.
Henne gets tons of time to throw. He just doesnt do anything with that protection. More linemen will do very little compared to adding Andrew Luck.
By Luck's 2nd year with us we could be among the best 8 teams.
Marshall is going to waste.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:36 am
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
swerve13 wrote:
most experts think we already have the best tackle tandem.
We spend so many picks and so much free agent money on the offensive line.
Enough already....they've exhausted that area.

This is probably the best pass blocking line in the league this year.
Henne gets tons of time to throw. He just doesnt do anything with that protection. More linemen will do very little compared to adding Andrew Luck.
By Luck's 2nd year with us we could be among the best 8 teams.
Marshall is going to waste.


Its not even certain Luck is coming out. He is a redshirt sophomore who hasn't declared anything.

Far too many examples of 1st round QBs labeled "franchise" guys who have busted.

Despite all the drama, complaints and concerns over Henne not being elite yet, I haven't read one guy outside of David Hyde, and this includes all of the ESPN guys, NFL Network guys and the local guys, who thinks Miami should go in another direction.

If it is a leadership issue and lack of faith amongst his teammates than I am truly concerned. I think the problem is that Henne has been coached to not make mistakes and that his running game will lead the way. The running game has tanked and he is afraid to take chances because the coaching staff doesn't want it. At this point he needs to open up because the ground game (which isn't even being used) is not controlling the ball and the clock.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:28 am
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
swerve13 wrote:
most experts think we already have the best tackle tandem.
We spend so many picks and so much free agent money on the offensive line.
Enough already....they've exhausted that area.

This is probably the best pass blocking line in the league this year.
Henne gets tons of time to throw. He just doesnt do anything with that protection. More linemen will do very little compared to adding Andrew Luck.
By Luck's 2nd year with us we could be among the best 8 teams.
Marshall is going to waste.


1) You can never exhaust "that area" when it's the OLine we're talking about. "That area" is where everything starts on offense. We cannot run the ball, and part of the reason is because we don't have anyone with pulling abilities. We need to run the ball in order to be successful, and in order to run the ball we have to address the OLIne in the offseason. Besides, unlike skill positions, you cannot have too many good OLinemen (whereas you can have too many good WRs or RBs as we've seen this year by having to make choices about whom to keep at WR).

2) The only reason why the line looks as good as it does is because Henne has been calling for max protections a lot of the time. That's a double edged sword: there are more blockers to give Henne time, but there are fewer receivers to target. During max protections, you immediately eliminate at least 2 receivers (TE and RB) from the equation and give defenders less field to protect.

3) There is a rule about choosing either QBs or WRs from the non-defense playing Pac 10: don't do it. Especially not with a high first round pick. Especially a sophmore who hasn't declared.

4) Marshall is not "going to waste". His catch and yards total is on par with where he's been in the past. It's his TDs that are lacking and that has him frustrated. But "going to waste" is a bit melodramatic for what, in reality, is the best year we've had from a receiver in a VERY long time.

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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
Andrew Luck isn't an NFL QB, IMO. But even if he was, how can we give up on Henne so soon?

As far as I'm concerned, Henne is twice the QB that Sanchez is. If Henne was in NY, and Sanchize in Miami, we'd be talking about how great Henne is coming along while we're stuck with Sanchez. We need to give Henne some weapons. A tailback who can make plays out of the backfield, the way that Ray Rice is for Flacco, or Kevin Faulk did for Tom Brady for a decade. We need to invest in an athletic TE. I don't care if we overspend. The Falcons "over spent" to give Matt Ryan a TE, yet I don't think anybody in Atlanta is regretting that move now. The Patriots spend 2 early draft picks this past April on TE's for Brady. The Saints "over spent" for Shockey, but again, I don't think anybody is regretting that move either. The Jets traded back up into the 1st round to grab Dustin Keller, who was supposedly just a 2nd or 3rd round guy. Again, don't think anybody in NY is regretting that decision 3 years later.
I don't have a problem with Fasano being the "number 1" TE, but I do have a problem with him being the only guy. You need to give him an athletic partner who Henne can grow some chemistry with and be that 3rd down security blanket.

There is no money invested right now in the interior of the O-line. Miami needs to go out and spend some. Get Logan Mankins, let Jerry continue to develop, and I think you've got a heck of a group. Whether they decide to upgrade over Berger or not will be interesting to see, but I can live with him for another season.

Finally, give Henne an OC/offensive system that fits him. He's stuck in a system made for Chad Pennington. You need to give him an OC who isn't afraid to dial up an aggressive game. Henne is at his best when he's got 3-4 WR sets and is slinging it down the field. See the Jets game. Henning doesn't let him do that, and it's gotten to a point where the voice in his ear telling him "don't turn it over, forget making a play, don't turn it over", has made him more gun shy than the voice in his ear...and then he gets benched for it. Ridiculous.

Give Henne some weapons, and you'll see results. He's not Tom Brady, but I do think that he can be a Matt Schaub or Eli Manning type of a passer.

Unless you have a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, you need to give your QB some weapons. People give way too much credit to guys like Schaub or Eli or Palmer (pre-injury). If they don't have weapons, they become less than stellar. You give them a good run game and put playmakers around them and you get what they are currently getting.

If we had Brady, then we might have enough. But we don't. Give Henne some weapons.

BTW, welcome to the boards, swerve! :yay: Glad to have you on board.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:23 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
jammer wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
most experts think we already have the best tackle tandem.
We spend so many picks and so much free agent money on the offensive line.
Enough already....they've exhausted that area.

This is probably the best pass blocking line in the league this year.
Henne gets tons of time to throw. He just doesnt do anything with that protection. More linemen will do very little compared to adding Andrew Luck.
By Luck's 2nd year with us we could be among the best 8 teams.
Marshall is going to waste.


Its not even certain Luck is coming out. He is a redshirt sophomore who hasn't declared anything.

Far too many examples of 1st round QBs labeled "franchise" guys who have busted.

Despite all the drama, complaints and concerns over Henne not being elite yet, I haven't read one guy outside of David Hyde, and this includes all of the ESPN guys, NFL Network guys and the local guys, who thinks Miami should go in another direction.

If it is a leadership issue and lack of faith amongst his teammates than I am truly concerned. I think the problem is that Henne has been coached to not make mistakes and that his running game will lead the way. The running game has tanked and he is afraid to take chances because the coaching staff doesn't want it. At this point he needs to open up because the ground game (which isn't even being used) is not controlling the ball and the clock.


You have to gamble to find a franchise quarterback. Look at all the half-ass attempts in the 2nd round we've tried. That doesnt work, because the best QB's go in the top 15 every year.
And there are alot fewer busts at the top nowadays compared with the 90's.
These top QB's are way more pro ready than they used to be.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:57 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
And Jimmy Clausen sucks.

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Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:04 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
John Elway, Troy Aikman and Aaron Rodgers were all highly drafted Pac-10 quarterbacks.
so was Drew Bledsoe, Sanchez and Carson Palmer. (Palmer was dam good before the knee injury)


Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:08 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
Ski_Money wrote:
And Jimmy Clausen sucks.



too early to say that


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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
are we the only franchise to have had an elite QB & not win a super bowl?

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Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:13 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
swerve13 wrote:
most experts think we already have the best tackle tandem.
We spend so many picks and so much free agent money on the offensive line.
Enough already....they've exhausted that area.

This is probably the best pass blocking line in the league this year.
Henne gets tons of time to throw. He just doesnt do anything with that protection. More linemen will do very little compared to adding Andrew Luck.
By Luck's 2nd year with us we could be among the best 8 teams.
Marshall is going to waste.


Ok, first of all the offensive line is the most important part of any offense. It's not the quarterback, it's not the runningback, it's the line. Without a good line you will struggle to do anything.
Our offensive line has been constantly hurt the past three years. We have a new center, new right guard, and a new left guard this year. The entire middle of our line is different than it was last year. And it was different the year before that. We have no consistency on offense because we have no consistency on our offensive line.
Just look at how good Henne was playing his first few games last year. It was because we had a healthy offensive line and our runningbacks were moving the football for him. Simply getting more weapons will not solve our problem, Marshall is living proof of that. Once we rebuild our offensive line and get some chemistry up front, then we will see Henne turn into a stud quarterback and start lighting it up. If Henne had the Jets offensive line he'd throw for 4,000+ yards and 20+ touchdowns this year.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:28 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
FINesse wrote:
are we the only franchise to have had an elite QB & not win a super bowl?



LOL.. it sure seems that way.
I was listening to a bunch of columnists debate who the best ever was. They all had varying opinions. Then one guy put it perfect. he said "Dan marino could have made this decision easy on all of us if he had won just one."

he's absolutely correct


Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:37 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
wkloiber13 wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
most experts think we already have the best tackle tandem.
We spend so many picks and so much free agent money on the offensive line.
Enough already....they've exhausted that area.

This is probably the best pass blocking line in the league this year.
Henne gets tons of time to throw. He just doesnt do anything with that protection. More linemen will do very little compared to adding Andrew Luck.
By Luck's 2nd year with us we could be among the best 8 teams.
Marshall is going to waste.


Ok, first of all the offensive line is the most important part of any offense. It's not the quarterback, it's not the runningback, it's the line. Without a good line you will struggle to do anything.
Our offensive line has been constantly hurt the past three years. We have a new center, new right guard, and a new left guard this year. The entire middle of our line is different than it was last year. And it was different the year before that. We have no consistency on offense because we have no consistency on our offensive line.
Just look at how good Henne was playing his first few games last year. It was because we had a healthy offensive line and our runningbacks were moving the football for him. Simply getting more weapons will not solve our problem, Marshall is living proof of that. Once we rebuild our offensive line and get some chemistry up front, then we will see Henne turn into a stud quarterback and start lighting it up. If Henne had the Jets offensive line he'd throw for 4,000+ yards and 20+ touchdowns this year.



I see far lesser offensive lines than ours (Chargers/Colts/Falcons/Packers) excel and win because they have what we do not.....a top-notch quarterback.
The whole obsession with the offensive line isnt the answer. They've brought in a ton of linemen the past 3 years. If they cant make it work with what they brought in already, it's never going to happen for Jeff and Tony. This has become a passing league. You almost never see teams running their way to a title anymore.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:42 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
It doesnt matter if Henne throws for 4000 yards and 20 td's.
he's easily capable of doing that every year.
It's the awful drive killing interceptions that kill this teams chances of competing.
defenders have find it easy to bate him for interceptions.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:45 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
FINesse wrote:
are we the only franchise to have had an elite QB & not win a super bowl?


Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, Fran Tarkenton, Bernie Kosar are a few that come to mind.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:47 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
swerve13 wrote:
You have to gamble to find a franchise quarterback. Look at all the half-ass attempts in the 2nd round we've tried. That doesnt work, because the best QB's go in the top 15 every year.
And there are alot fewer busts at the top nowadays compared with the 90's.
These top QB's are way more pro ready than they used to be.


Evidence doesn't support your argument. There have been as many 1st round flops in the last decade as there have been successes. Here is a cut and paste of 1st round guys from this decade. I'd take Henne over half of those guys any day. And anyone from 2008 to this point has not been in the league long enough to have a definitive opinion on.

Chad Pennington 2000 Jets
Michael Vick 2001 Falcons
David Carr 2002 Texans
Joey Harrington 2002 Lions
Patrick Ramsey 2002 Redskins
Carson Palmer 2003 Bengals
Byron Leftwich 2003 Jaguars
Kyle Boller 2003 Ravens
Rex Grossman 2003 Bears
Eli Manning 2004 Chargers
Philip Rivers 2004 Giants
Ben Roethlisberger 2004 Steelers
J.P. Losman 2004 Bills
Alex D. Smith 2005 49ers
Aaron Rodgers 2005 Packers
Jason Campbell 2005 Redskins
Vince Young 2006 Titans
***Matt Leinart 2006 Cardinals
Jay Cutler 2006 Broncos
JaMarcus Russell 2007 Raiders
Brady Quinn 2007 Browns
Matt Ryan 2008 Falcons
Joe Flacco 2008 Ravens
Matthew Stafford 2009 Lions
Mark Sanchez 2009 Jets
Josh Freeman 2009 Buccaneers
Sam Bradford 2010 Rams
***Tim Tebow 2010 Broncos


Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:59 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
Looks like most of the best quarterbacks playing today are on your list.
alot of those busts on that list were stupid desperate picks to begin with.

Most draft analysts and people with football knowledge knew that Jamarcus Russell, Rex Grossman, Boller and Losman had a high bust label

There is way more success on that list than failure.
Most of the epic busts are from the beginning of the decade.
The more recent drafts have produced a ton of excellent QB.s
Rivers, manning, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Stafford, Bradford, Vick, Rodgers, Flacco, Sanchez
and even Freeman looks legit


Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:08 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
swerve13 wrote:
Looks like most of the best quarterbacks playing today are on your list.
alot of those busts on that list were stupid desperate picks to begin with.

Most draft analysts and people with football knowledge knew that Jamarcus Russell, Rex Grossman, Boller and Losman had a high bust label

There is way more success on that list than failure.
Most of the epic busts are from the beginning of the decade.
The more recent drafts have produced a ton of excellent QB.s
Rivers, manning, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Stafford, Bradford, Vick, Rodgers, Flacco, Sanchez
and even Freeman looks legit


What defines drafting a QB at the top of the draft as being "desperate" vs. whatever other reason there is?


Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:11 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
look all i'm saying is, you can't be afraid to take a chance. Or you'll be mired in mediocrity like we've been for over a decade. What if we had never taken a chance on #13 back in 1983.
We would never have been to the playoffs every year for the next 14-15 years watching exciting competitive football.
Actually having a chance at a ring. That's where I want us to be again. This regime is just starting to remind me of the wannstedt era again. Outdated for the modern NFL.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:15 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
Phins Rock wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
Looks like most of the best quarterbacks playing today are on your list.
alot of those busts on that list were stupid desperate picks to begin with.

Most draft analysts and people with football knowledge knew that Jamarcus Russell, Rex Grossman, Boller and Losman had a high bust label

There is way more success on that list than failure.
Most of the epic busts are from the beginning of the decade.
The more recent drafts have produced a ton of excellent QB.s
Rivers, manning, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Stafford, Bradford, Vick, Rodgers, Flacco, Sanchez
and even Freeman looks legit


What defines drafting a QB at the top of the draft as being "desperate" vs. whatever other reason there is?


What I mean is, Jamarcus Russell and Alex Smith were taken #1 overall because those teams desperately needed a quarterback. Not because all the experts thought they were great quarterbacks. Those teams just happened to be picking in the top spot and convinced themselves that those guys were worth all that money.

It was different when Stafford and Bradford were taken. The consensus on them was great quarterback prospects. And it's the same for Andrew Luck.
I don't want Luck just because I want a quarterback. I want him because he is the total package.
Big, tall, smart, nice arm, and can make all of the throws.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:21 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
Actually, Stafford was seen by most as a late first round guy in most drafts. Because that QB class was so weak, he was elevated to the top. Same with Bradford.

If you're drafting one up high, it's because you are desperate for one. Otherwise, you take the one that falls to you, develop him and put the pieces around him to succeed. That's what we're doing/need to continue to do with Henne.

Give the man some time.

BTW, regarding Luck...The top QB's who have panned out the last few seasons have been in pass first teams where they have total command of the offense, (Ryan, Bradford the two extreme examples). Luck is on a run-first team where he feeds off of play action passes and going to his 1st read.

Matt Ryan and Sam Bradford consistently went through their progressions in college and threw the ball on almost every down. With Ryan, there were a lot of times where BC would literally run it once or twice over the course of the 2nd and 3rd Quarters. Ryan told the opposing D he was going to throw it, and nobody was able to stop it.

With Luck, I've also noticed that he has failed to show up in critical games multiple times. He's had a couple of good games in big games (USC comes to mind), but overall I haven't seen him carry that team on his shoulders.

To be honest, I don't see him as a better QB or QB prospect coming out of college than Chad Henne is/was.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:34 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
Phins Rock wrote:
Actually, Stafford was seen by most as a late first round guy in most drafts. Because that QB class was so weak, he was elevated to the top. Same with Bradford.

If you're drafting one up high, it's because you are desperate for one. Otherwise, you take the one that falls to you, develop him and put the pieces around him to succeed. That's what we're doing/need to continue to do with Henne.

Give the man some time.



not sure what people you were listening to or reading.
Everything I heard that year was that Stafford was the real deal.
I personally couldn't tell if he was by watching him, but I have to say the experts were right on about him. His problem will be if his shoulders hold up in his playing career.
And Bradford was said to be the best QB prospect in a decade. I know. I listen and read tons of draft coverage and analysis. For the most part, these guys know their stuff.

The old rule of thumb is that you do not pass on a franchise caliber quarterback when you have the chance. Kind of like we did with Matt Ryan. It's by far the most important position is all of sports.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:43 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
swerve13 wrote:
Looks like most of the best quarterbacks playing today are on your list.
alot of those busts on that list were stupid desperate picks to begin with.

Most draft analysts and people with football knowledge knew that Jamarcus Russell, Rex Grossman, Boller and Losman had a high bust label

There is way more success on that list than failure.
Most of the epic busts are from the beginning of the decade.
The more recent drafts have produced a ton of excellent QB.s
Rivers, manning, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Stafford, Bradford, Vick, Rodgers, Flacco, Sanchez
and even Freeman looks legit


Most of the best? I see two that have won a Super Bowl. I see no MVPs. And I see some guys who are surrounded by unbelievable teams accelerating their development. Stafford has played a grand total of a season because of injury, Sanchez continues to be up and down, you have no idea what Bradford is, and Freeman hasn't done it against many quality opponents. I'll give you Roethlisberger, Rivers and Rodgers as some of the best but another 2nd round pick (Brees) has proven better than them.

Miami is not as good of a team as you think. Drafting Andrew Luck, even if he is legit, isn't taking them to the next level. If you want to base it on scouting reports and physical skills you'll see most analysts saying Henne can match most of the best with his tools, he just needs to improve his awareness and reads.

Give me a better linemen, a consistent young running back, another legit receiving threat, an upgrade over Crowder and a ball hawk in the secondary and this team is headed to the next level.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:33 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
swerve13 wrote:
And Bradford was said to be the best QB prospect in a decade. I know. I listen and read tons of draft coverage and analysis. For the most part, these guys know their stuff.



I read a lot on draft coverage as well and never once came across someone saying that. If you can quote it, I'll believe it was said.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:35 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
Let's see....Bradford has been a starter from day 1 on a Rams team that isn't that good...and they have injuries galore, including to their starting #1 receiver who is out for the season and has been gone since like week #4. His leading receiver is Danny Amendola. Bradford has a 79 QB rating and 14 TD's to 9 INT's. That puts him ahead of Henne's career 76 rating and this year Henne has 9 TD's to go along with his 11 INT's. Come to think of it, Henne has never thrown more TD's than INT's. But, heck, that ratio means nothing...right :grin:

Based on the numbers, if you folks think Henne is the real deal...then Bradford must be elite or a certain franchise QB...being he is outperforming Henne as a rookie.

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Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:21 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
FrustratedFinFan wrote:
Let's see....Bradford has been a starter from day 1 on a Rams team that isn't that good...and they have injuries galore, including to their starting #1 receiver who is out for the season and has been gone since like week #4. His leading receiver is Danny Amendola. Bradford has a 79 QB rating and 14 TD's to 9 INT's. That puts him ahead of Henne's career 76 rating and this year Henne has 9 TD's to go along with his 11 INT's. Come to think of it, Henne has never thrown more TD's than INT's. But, heck, that ratio means nothing...right :grin:

Based on the numbers, if you folks think Henne is the real deal...then Bradford must be elite or a certain franchise QB...being he is outperforming Henne as a rookie.


Great, but he isn't going to win a thing until he has a better team around. He may end up having a better career than Henne or most other Qbs in the league right now.

The point of this guy's thread was to say that Miami is a QB away. They need a lot more than that and their QB is pretty much being dismissed by fans who want faster results. If Miami was operating the way they were supposed to as a complete team then no one would be griping about Henne.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:34 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
We need to draft Mark Ingram.


Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:45 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
Swerve13, I know you're high on Luck and some of these other guys coming out this year but you've got to understand that drafting a quarterback is far from a guarantee. Quarterback is the most difficult position to draft and whether you're drafting one in the first round or the fifth round the odds of the guy becoming great are still less than 50%. There is no way we will get the top quarterback in the draft. We would have to sacrifice our entire draft just to move up and get him, then we would have to pay him a ridiculous amount of money. The risk is too high if you ask me.
As far as you mentioning our offensive line as being better than those other teams, I would have to disagree with you. Those offensive lines have been together for quite some time and even more importantly they're healthy. Our offensive line has been together for less than one season, not to mention that half the guys out there playing are either rookies or backups. Our two best lineman are playing through injuries and it's not looking like our line will turn the corner any time soon. If we don't fix the offensive line it won't matter who our quarterback is. Henne, Thigpen, a rookie, it won't matter unless the line is solid and healthy.


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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
Phins Rock wrote:
FINesse wrote:
are we the only franchise to have had an elite QB & not win a super bowl?


Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, Fran Tarkenton, Bernie Kosar are a few that come to mind.


Then let me rephrase ... are we the only team to have a QB that is mentioned when people talk about the best of all time to have not won a Super Bowl.

Hey PR ... I get the Miami homer thing but Bernie Kosar??????

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Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:33 am
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
swerve13 wrote:
but I think he has proven to be better than Henne.


He has put up better numbers this year, he hasn't proven to be better. Takes more than a part of a season to do that.

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Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:00 am
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
FINesse wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
FINesse wrote:
are we the only franchise to have had an elite QB & not win a super bowl?


Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, Fran Tarkenton, Bernie Kosar are a few that come to mind.


Then let me rephrase ... are we the only team to have a QB that is mentioned when people talk about the best of all time to have not won a Super Bowl.

Hey PR ... I get the Miami homer thing but Bernie Kosar??????


I thought he was a good QB for the U and then Cleveland?

He was on the NFL Network's list of the top 10 QB's to not win one. :)


Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:07 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
Quote:
There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite


There are several, starting with sending Dan Henning packing and including the kneejerk portion of the fanbase with him.

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Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:19 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
jammer wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
And Bradford was said to be the best QB prospect in a decade. I know. I listen and read tons of draft coverage and analysis. For the most part, these guys know their stuff.



I read a lot on draft coverage as well and never once came across someone saying that. If you can quote it, I'll believe it was said.


at the moment cannot find a direct quote on Bradford, but I remember Mayock and McShay both saying it. But here's a link to Russ Lande calling Luck the best QB prospect in the past 10 years.
So I think I'll take his analysis over Phins Rock. No offense buddy.
Luck also looked pretty dam good yesterday destroying Oregon St. and going 21 for 30
over 300 yards and 4 td's


http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2010/10/ ... r-10-years


Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:23 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
that article also states how highly ranked Stafford was coming out.
Has him right there with Peyton manning


Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:25 pm
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Post Re: There's only 1 thing this team can do to become elite
FrustratedFinFan wrote:
Let's see....Bradford has been a starter from day 1 on a Rams team that isn't that good...and they have injuries galore, including to their starting #1 receiver who is out for the season and has been gone since like week #4. His leading receiver is Danny Amendola. Bradford has a 79 QB rating and 14 TD's to 9 INT's. That puts him ahead of Henne's career 76 rating and this year Henne has 9 TD's to go along with his 11 INT's. Come to think of it, Henne has never thrown more TD's than INT's. But, heck, that ratio means nothing...right :grin:

Based on the numbers, if you folks think Henne is the real deal...then Bradford must be elite or a certain franchise QB...being he is outperforming Henne as a rookie.



Could not agree more. I would love to have Bradford. He is nothing short of amazing in his rookie year.


Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:27 pm
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