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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:26 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
Phillip Rivers, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Jason Campbell and Matt Cassell (at least right now), Josh Freeman, Colt McCoy.


Wow, those guys have nothing around them? Really?

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And did you just imply that Henne has NOTHING around him?


Why don't you go back and read what I said and see if Henne's name is anywhere in there.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:28 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
But a QB rating of 60 in the 4th quarter is just not good enough. I don't care if you have a Pro Bowl everything all around you...you either have it in crunch time or not, and right now Henne doesn't.


How many QBs have it at crunch time with nothing around them?


The only guy I can think of is Tom Brady early in his career. He did well with guys who really weren't big names.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:29 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Phillip Rivers, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Jason Campbell and Matt Cassell (at least right now), Josh Freeman, Colt McCoy.


Wow, those guys have nothing around them? Really?

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And did you just imply that Henne has NOTHING around him?


Why don't you go back and read what I said and see if Henne's name is anywhere in there.


It was implied.

And no they don't. Which of those QB's has more than Henne has?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:30 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
It was implied.


Stick to the facts, kid. I knew what I was saying when I said it.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:30 pm 
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In defense of Marshall.. well not really.. He was covered. Then as he started to break to the open Henne stared him down and laid it in there late. Giving the defense time to react. You can see things a lot different when you are at the game. Its awesome. But, it was a poor effort by both players. Marshall still should have caught it. It hit both his hands.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:31 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
It was implied.


Stick to the facts, kid. I knew what I was saying when I said it.


What?

Lol....Is it just me or does that not have anything to do with anything?

Either way, I'm done. Like somebody said, we're littering this thread.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:31 pm 
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hypocritex wrote:
In defense of Marshall.. well not really.. He was covered. Then as he started to break to the open Henne stared him down and laid it in there late. Giving the defense time to react. You can see things a lot different when you are at the game. Its awesome. But, it was a poor effort by both players. Marshall still should have caught it. It hit both his hands.


Every WR is covered on a slant....

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:36 pm 
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hypocritex wrote:
In defense of Marshall.. well not really.. He was covered. Then as he started to break to the open Henne stared him down and laid it in there late. Giving the defense time to react. You can see things a lot different when you are at the game. Its awesome. But, it was a poor effort by both players. Marshall still should have caught it. It hit both his hands.


Yup. Both. But there are a few who think it's one sided.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:39 pm 
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jammer wrote:
The only guy I can think of is Tom Brady early in his career. He did well with guys who really weren't big names.



Brady had terrific coaching.
His players on offense played smart.
He had a terrific defense.
He had a cutch kicker.


He had help.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:01 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
he has had 3 games where he has a chance to win a game in the 4th Q, and has failed each time.


Actually, no. He had a game winning drive to WIN the game against the Packers.

Also, he had game winning drives against the Jets, Buccs, and Patriots last year. (Plus, he had a drive that forced ovetime against the Titans) In effect, 42% of Miami's wins in 2009 were due to a game winning drive by Henne.

You can't claim he's a disaster in the 4th quarter.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:04 pm 
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You can't claim he's a disaster in the 4th quarter

Let's stick to the current year please.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:06 pm 
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1984phins wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
he has had 3 games where he has a chance to win a game in the 4th Q, and has failed each time.


Actually, no. He had a game winning drive to WIN the game against the Packers.

Also, he had game winning drives against the Jets, Buccs, and Patriots last year. (Plus, he had a drive that forced ovetime against the Titans) In effect, 42% of Miami's wins in 2009 were due to a game winning drive by Henne.

You can't claim he's a disaster in the 4th quarter.


Like I said, at times he did. But more times than not he doesn't.

BTW, in that Tennessee game, he didn't finish the drive, and Hartline and Fasano bailed him out of errant passes to get them into position. Plus the INT in OT....


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:06 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
You can't claim he's a disaster in the 4th quarter

Let's stick to the current year please.

.....ever hear of a sophomore slump? And since when is this season over anyways? Last I counted there was still half a season to go.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:07 pm 
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1984phins wrote:
jammer wrote:
The only guy I can think of is Tom Brady early in his career. He did well with guys who really weren't big names.



Brady had terrific coaching.
His players on offense played smart.
He had a terrific defense.
He had a cutch kicker.


He had help.


If we are talking numbers and scoring then Brady did it without Pro Bowl caliber guys in his passing game. That is how I interpreted the question. If we are talking total team then I agree, Brady had a better squad.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:08 pm 
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ever hear of a sophomore slump? And since when is this season over anyways? Last I counted there was still half a season to go.

Yes I have and yes you are right. There is a lot of football left. Let's see what happens. I can only talk/debate about the present.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:09 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
You can't claim he's a disaster in the 4th quarter

Let's stick to the current year please.


Jets loss: Blame the D
Pats loss: Special Teams
GB win: Henne game winning drive.
Steelers loss: Henne game winning drive negated by the blown ref call.
Ravens loss: Complete team loss.




This thread is trying to evaluate him as a QB. Why would I ignore the majority of his games?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:10 pm 
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jammer wrote:
1984phins wrote:
jammer wrote:
The only guy I can think of is Tom Brady early in his career. He did well with guys who really weren't big names.



Brady had terrific coaching.
His players on offense played smart.
He had a terrific defense.
He had a cutch kicker.


He had help.


If we are talking numbers and scoring then Brady did it without Pro Bowl caliber guys in his passing game. That is how I interpreted the question. If we are talking total team then I agree, Brady had a better squad.


I agree. The point that I think many people miss is that a QB's success is just more than his side of the ball. It is also depended on special teams, coaching, and defense.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:11 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
ever hear of a sophomore slump? And since when is this season over anyways? Last I counted there was still half a season to go.

Yes I have and yes you are right. There is a lot of football left. Let's see what happens. I can only talk/debate about the present.

Yea there is no secret that Henne hasn't exactly lit things up so far this year. Honestly I was expressing concern over our offense back in the pre-season. I think the problems extend beyond Henne, though I see him as being integral to this offense moving forward. Without better play from him, the offense wont get better. Still there is only so much he can do. Receivers cannot continue to drop passes and run poor routes. The offensive coordinator, whom I see as the biggest issue, cannot continue to run this offense. And Henne MUST improve.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:12 pm 
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though I see him as being integral to this offense moving forward. Without better play from him, the offense wont get better.


BINGO! Said perfectly. It all starts with the QB.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:25 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
though I see him as being integral to this offense moving forward. Without better play from him, the offense wont get better.


BINGO! Said perfectly. It all starts with the QB.

Im glad we are on the same page here but that is only one part of what I said. Henne isn't the only reason our offense has struggled, but without improvement from him, it won't matter if all the other pieces fall into place, it takes a good qb to make it all work out. Its like having a car with a sputtering engine, a flat tire, broken suspension, bad brakes, and a cracked windshield. Sure the sputtering engine is the biggest component to making the car go, but the rest of the parts need fixed too. If they aren't it won't matter if the engine works right or not, and vice versa.
Right now we have a bunch of pieces to the puzzle, but it doesn't seem like we are able to put them together.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:29 pm 
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When the QB is completing almost 65% of their passes, they are doing what they need to do. We have NO speed at WR, nobody scares the defense. Look at what somebody like Desean Jackson does to a defense. It's great to have Marshall, but without a speed guy to take the coverage off him, we are one-dimensional. Also, the playcalling is stupid at best, Henne made some great throws downfield today, but Henning is boring and unimaginative. That kind of playcalling will stifle ANY QB. Henne isn't even allowed to AUDIBLE. How do you expect him to win consistently when his hands are tied?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:32 pm 
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When the QB is completing almost 65% of their passes, they are doing what they need to do.


Not true. Rob Johnson had a great completion %.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:39 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
When the QB is completing almost 65% of their passes, they are doing what they need to do.


Not true. Rob Johnson had a great completion %.


actually Rob Johnson only completed 57.2% and 62% in seasons where he had significant playing time.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... hnRo00.htm


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:43 pm 
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Lets face it 2 out of the 3 interceptions were not his fault.

That being said, I'd like to see better pre snap reads... There was a play where baltimore blitzed the nickel back and Henne could have moved Fasano over for blocking help and he failed to. To me, it seems like henne is still riding w/ training wheels.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:46 pm 
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Henne is still missing in some crucial situations. He needs to execute better, no question.

4 of his interceptions this season were not his fault.

Fasano, Hartline and Wallace have cost him TD passes.

Fasano and Brown have killed him on some tough 3rd down situations.

Henning's extremely conservative offense and sometimes questionable play calls have been a factor.

Its not all on Henne. He gets his share of the blame, but he could just as easily have 12 TD passes, 6 Ints, a higher completion pct, and another win or two with better team effort.


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