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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:27 pm 
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If true, and usually Barry Jackson doesn't write something that he cannot verify, he wanted way too much power and pretty much wanted Grier's job, too.

Barry Jackson (Miami Herald) wrote:
Flores already was essentially running the Dolphins building, according to a source in direct contact with Dolphins management. But he wanted even more control, the source said. He wanted the authority formalized, to eliminate the contract annoyance of general manager Chris Grier having final say on the draft and free agency.

He wanted more power in everything, final say on virtually everything. He wanted more people to report to him. He already had full authority to pick a coaching staff and planned to make more changes, beginning with the offensive staff. At least one of the offensive coordinators was expecting to be dismissed, if not both.

What’s strange about this is that Grier — who likes to avoid conflict — basically gave Flores everything he wanted. There wasn’t a single player on the roster that Flores didn’t sign off on. And yet Grier’s deference still wasn’t enough to appease Flores or sooth tensions between the two.

As one Dolphins person said, people need to stop blaming Grier entirely for the personnel moves that didn’t work out the past three years and blame them both equally. And both deserve credit for the ones that worked out.


Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt- ... rylink=cpy

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:31 pm 
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If this is accurate...

Maybe Grier needs to grow a spine and act like a true GM, especially if you are bringing in a guy with no head coaching experience. I could understand his approach if Jim Caldwell or Doug Pederson came here. Those guys have a proven track record and a ton of experience.

Brian Flores had never even formally been a defensive coordinator, let alone a head coach. Why would he think he had earned the right to call all the shots with his sub .500 record?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:38 pm 
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Big Dave wrote:
If true, and usually Barry Jackson doesn't write something that he cannot verify, he wanted way too much power and pretty much wanted Grier's job, too.

Barry Jackson (Miami Herald) wrote:
Flores already was essentially running the Dolphins building, according to a source in direct contact with Dolphins management. But he wanted even more control, the source said. He wanted the authority formalized, to eliminate the contract annoyance of general manager Chris Grier having final say on the draft and free agency.

He wanted more power in everything, final say on virtually everything. He wanted more people to report to him. He already had full authority to pick a coaching staff and planned to make more changes, beginning with the offensive staff. At least one of the offensive coordinators was expecting to be dismissed, if not both.

What’s strange about this is that Grier — who likes to avoid conflict — basically gave Flores everything he wanted. There wasn’t a single player on the roster that Flores didn’t sign off on. And yet Grier’s deference still wasn’t enough to appease Flores or sooth tensions between the two.

As one Dolphins person said, people need to stop blaming Grier entirely for the personnel moves that didn’t work out the past three years and blame them both equally. And both deserve credit for the ones that worked out.


Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt- ... rylink=cpy


I distinctly remember reading an interview where Grier said draft decisions where his final decision. If his decision was to turn it over to someone else still his decision so imo he does take the blame for bad decisions (O-line) and lets us know that whoever is the coach will also be picking the players if Grier remains GM. So let's hope it is someone who knows how to pick offensive linemen.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:45 pm 
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Seems credible considering what we’ve heard the last couple years about him being a control freak and constantly churning over the staff. Also provides some thought as to some of the free agent moves that were made.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:46 pm 
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AQNOR wrote:
I distinctly remember reading an interview where Grier said draft decisions where his final decision. If his decision was to turn it over to someone else still his decision so imo he does take the blame for bad decisions (O-line) and lets us know that whoever is the coach will also be picking the players if Grier remains GM. So let's hope it is someone who knows how to pick offensive linemen.


If Flores was getting everything he wanted then why would he try to get 100% of the personnel decisions? I think Grier valued Flores decision as he wanted his head coach to succeed, so, he valued his opinion.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:53 pm 
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Big Dave wrote:
AQNOR wrote:
I distinctly remember reading an interview where Grier said draft decisions where his final decision. If his decision was to turn it over to someone else still his decision so imo he does take the blame for bad decisions (O-line) and lets us know that whoever is the coach will also be picking the players if Grier remains GM. So let's hope it is someone who knows how to pick offensive linemen.


If Flores was getting everything he wanted then why would he try to get 100% of the personnel decisions? I think Grier valued Flores decision as he wanted his head coach to succeed, so, he valued his opinion.



Ego. Its the type of control Belechick has. Not a bad thing to have especially for a leader of men but like most positive attributes you have to remain somewhat balanced.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:59 pm 
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Mr. Gregory Jackson is no Greg Cote.

The head coach wanted “too much power” over his guys? As opposed to who else? Some dbag canoe in a suit & tie that the players mostly see warming the bleachers and in press appearances?

Grier looks like a slob in his press conferences to me. He couldn’t lead an army of raccoons into a dumpster. Least Flores looked the part, but I’m not going to pretend I know what’s really going inside Davie like most of the collective media freak out has been doing. They don’t know shhh. They get paid to talk out of the sides of their mouths like politicians, they’d rather be playing the game themselves.

I have you guys for my Dolphin intel. That’s it. Modern ESPN can fall off a cliff.

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Last edited by AFCMiamiEast on Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:05 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
The head coach wanted “too much power” over his guys?


I don't think that's what the article was saying at all. He basically wanted to be the football czar.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:06 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
The head coach wanted “too much power” over his guys? As opposed to who else? Some dbag canoe in a suit & tie that the players mostly see warming the bleachers and in press appearances?

Grier looks like a slob in his press conferences to me. He couldn’t lead an army of raccoons into a dumpster.


The article specifically mentions draft and free agency and contract language not giving him final say in those areas although it appears he did have final say already he just had too run those things by Grier for his approval. Not every coach is a good talent evaluator.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:08 pm 
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Rich wrote:
AFCMiamiEast wrote:
The head coach wanted “too much power” over his guys?


I don't think that's what the article was saying at all. He basically wanted to be the football czar.


They just need to be smarter and know how to avoid these petty rifts between upper management before they ink the contract. It happens over and over. Groundhog Day. Deja vu

Rich wrote:
Brian Flores had never even formally been a defensive coordinator, let alone a head coach. Why would he think he had earned the right to call all the shots with his sub .500 record?


Fair point. But this goes back to them needing to put measures in place and let it be known these conflicts can’t happen…before they do. We can blame Flores for being overzealous but the upper management should have given him no illusion that he’d have that level of control.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:13 pm 
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AQNOR wrote:
AFCMiamiEast wrote:
The head coach wanted “too much power” over his guys? As opposed to who else? Some dbag canoe in a suit & tie that the players mostly see warming the bleachers and in press appearances?

Grier looks like a slob in his press conferences to me. He couldn’t lead an army of raccoons into a dumpster.


The article specifically mentions draft and free agency and contract language not giving him final say in those areas although it appears he did have final say already he just had too run those things by Grier for his approval. Not every coach is a good talent evaluator.


Yeah…draft picks & free agents would eventually be his guys so I’m not sure where the disconnect about what I said is

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:25 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
AQNOR wrote:
AFCMiamiEast wrote:
The head coach wanted “too much power” over his guys? As opposed to who else? Some dbag canoe in a suit & tie that the players mostly see warming the bleachers and in press appearances?

Grier looks like a slob in his press conferences to me. He couldn’t lead an army of raccoons into a dumpster.


The article specifically mentions draft and free agency and contract language not giving him final say in those areas although it appears he did have final say already he just had too run those things by Grier for his approval. Not every coach is a good talent evaluator.


Yeah…draft picks & free agents would eventually be his guys so I’m not sure where the disconnect about what I said is


For me and the way I understand organizations being set up is "his guys" is the disconnect. They are not his guys until the GM says so. This is not that unusual an arrangement in the NFL. Not all coaches are good talent evaluators. i think some head coaches may even have to get there coaching staffs approved not sure about that one. Grier was wrong in letting coach Flo pick o linemen. Or if he would have picked the same ones then either Flo had the wrong staff to develop them or Grier should be sent packing to if all he is is a rubber stamp for the coach. Imo Grier should be gone if nothing more than the oline woes because however the o line developed it was his decision.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:32 pm 
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Grier watched the power struggles of Ireland and Sparano, Ireland and Philbin, Gase and everyone, etc. So I don't blame him for trying to take a collaborative approach as opposed to eventual conflict. To go back to what Parcells said in NE, he wanted to pick the groceries. Grier did the scouting and gave input while allowing Flores to have his say in the matter. Nothing wrong with that.

To East's point, I have to laugh at Barry Jackson writing this today. He nearly had a coronary over the firing yesterday. Now he is doing the bidding of Ross/Grier to show just how bad Flores made it for everyone.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:33 pm 
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I think Grier has to be a big part of this problem. Flores was probably just the bigger problem and somehow Grier gets to stay…..maybe it is loyalty? Maybe it was last year’s draft? We can only hope the new coach can right the ship while working with Grier.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:45 pm 
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Barry Jackson (Miami Herald) wrote:
As one Dolphins person said, people need to stop blaming Grier entirely for the personnel moves that didn’t work out the past three years and blame them both equally. And both deserve credit for the ones that worked out.


If this is the case, then shouldn't Grier be held to the same standards as Flores and be let go as well? Grier has been with the Dolphins longer, has been involved with more failures than Flores. He should've been the first one to go. To my knowledge Grier can't run that defense.

And what do you mean by "if true he wanted too much power". I don't agree with that either. I don't blame Flores for that, if he truly seen the issues and the writing on the wall with how Grier evaluates and does things - then good for Flores for trying to do something about it.

I'm not so sure I believe all these knee jerk articles and stuff being leaked out by the organization about how bad Flore was, how he was hard to work with and for, about how he wanted too much power. Smells like a bunch of crap to me. You don't get a team who went on a 7 game skid, to turn around and win 7 in a row, if they don't buy in to waht you're selling, or they don't want to play for you.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:50 pm 
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jammer wrote:
To East's point, I have to laugh at Barry Jackson writing this today. He nearly had a coronary over the firing yesterday. Now he is doing the bidding of Ross/Grier to show just how bad Flores made it for everyone.


This has been what has confused me the most so far. Maybe nto confusion but watching this unfold almost seems... too weird. I wish somebody would just come outright in a media presser and say why Grier gets tos tay. Maybe someone asked that question and I missed it.

It has to be mafia related. Grier knows too much on Ross. Enough to put him in jail. Something.

I just can't equate that if Flores was that bad... then how is Grier not just as guilty. Something stinks here.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:03 pm 
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AQNOR wrote:
For me and the way I understand organizations being set up is "his guys" is the disconnect. They are not his guys until the GM says so. This is not that unusual an arrangement in the NFL. Not all coaches are good talent evaluators. i think some head coaches may even have to get there coaching staffs approved not sure about that one. Grier was wrong in letting coach Flo pick o linemen. Or if he would have picked the same ones then either Flo had the wrong staff to develop them or Grier should be sent packing to if all he is is a rubber stamp for the coach. Imo Grier should be gone if nothing more than the oline woes because however the o line developed it was his decision.


I get it, I was just making too literal of a point I guess. All good points.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:34 pm 
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The Don wrote:
I'm not so sure I believe all these knee jerk articles and stuff being leaked out by the organization about how bad Flore was, how he was hard to work with and for, about how he wanted too much power. Smells like a bunch of crap to me. You don't get a team who went on a 7 game skid, to turn around and win 7 in a row, if they don't buy in to waht you're selling, or they don't want to play for you.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:42 pm 
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The Don wrote:
I'm not so sure I believe all these knee jerk articles and stuff being leaked out by the organization about how bad Flore was, how he was hard to work with and for, about how he wanted too much power. Smells like a bunch of crap to me. You don't get a team who went on a 7 game skid, to turn around and win 7 in a row, if they don't buy in to waht you're selling, or they don't want to play for you.


I think the defense bought into Flores. I'm not so sure the offense did.

I'm not saying Flores sabotaged the offense, but he clearly wanted to move on from certain people.

As much as he can be a goof at times, the Big O has been saying this about Flores for a long time. He nailed this one. His argument was that the players came together for each other and for pride, not for Flores.

It is why I asked the question. When did we ever see a good offensive game plan against any opponent? Why were they always attempting things that seemed irrational at best. Sounds to me like Flores created a lot of division and was positioning himself to get the power he craved by proving his defense was the reason for success.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:52 pm 
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jammer wrote:
When did we ever see a good offensive game plan against any opponent?


What the heck do you mean? I thought the double reverse to Gesicki who then threw it into triple coverage in wet/cold conditions was definitely outside the box thinking.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:04 pm 
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Rich wrote:
jammer wrote:
When did we ever see a good offensive game plan against any opponent?


What the heck do you mean? I thought the double reverse to Gesicki who then threw it into triple coverage in wet/cold conditions was definitely outside the box thinking.


The two deep passes in that game came from Gesicki and Jacoby Brissett. Makes sense to me ... haters.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:00 pm 
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Big Dave wrote:
Rich wrote:
jammer wrote:
When did we ever see a good offensive game plan against any opponent?


What the heck do you mean? I thought the double reverse to Gesicki who then threw it into triple coverage in wet/cold conditions was definitely outside the box thinking.


The two deep passes in that game came from Gesicki and Jacoby Brissett. Makes sense to me ... haters.

:haha


Soooooo, I guess if you have 3 Qb's...You really don't have any.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:06 pm 
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Rich wrote:
jammer wrote:
When did we ever see a good offensive game plan against any opponent?


What the heck do you mean? I thought the double reverse to Gesicki who then threw it into triple coverage in wet/cold conditions was definitely outside the box thinking.


My bad


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:14 pm 
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I'm throwing this out there right now.

I read that a surprise team would let go of their coach if Flores was interested in their job.

The Giants just fired Joe Judge. And they have a GM opening.

It was reported at the trade deadline that Deshaun Watson would waive his no trade clause to play in NY.

The Giants have two top 10 picks in this draft.

Hmm...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:14 pm 
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NY is the perfect place for Flores and Watson...so hope that happens. lol


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:56 pm 
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vafinfan wrote:
NY is the perfect place for Flores and Watson...so hope that happens. lol

Should we pray for this?
Good grief, I’d be ecstatic if that happened. Anywhere but here for Watson, please.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:19 pm 
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jammer wrote:
The Don wrote:
I'm not so sure I believe all these knee jerk articles and stuff being leaked out by the organization about how bad Flore was, how he was hard to work with and for, about how he wanted too much power. Smells like a bunch of crap to me. You don't get a team who went on a 7 game skid, to turn around and win 7 in a row, if they don't buy in to waht you're selling, or they don't want to play for you.


As much as he can be a goof at times, the Big O has been saying this about Flores for a long time. He nailed this one. His argument was that the players came together for each other and for pride, not for Flores.

It is why I asked the question. When did we ever see a good offensive game plan against any opponent? Why were they always attempting things that seemed irrational at best. Sounds to me like Flores created a lot of division and was positioning himself to get the power he craved by proving his defense was the reason for success.


Agree, Jammer. There were other local guys who were saying similar things about Flo’s abrasive attitude during the season.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:10 pm 
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Rich wrote:
If this is accurate...

Maybe Grier needs to grow a spine and act like a true GM, especially if you are bringing in a guy with no head coaching experience. I could understand his approach if Jim Caldwell or Doug Pederson came here. Those guys have a proven track record and a ton of experience.

Brian Flores had never even formally been a defensive coordinator, let alone a head coach. Why would he think he had earned the right to call all the shots with his sub .500 record?

Because he is good? :saywhat When you fire a coach and he becomes the hottest coach on the market? 19-14 with an offense that lacked talent the last two yr?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:10 pm 
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Gase got hired right away. How did that turn out?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:41 am 
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Dphins4me wrote:
Rich wrote:
If this is accurate...

Maybe Grier needs to grow a spine and act like a true GM, especially if you are bringing in a guy with no head coaching experience. I could understand his approach if Jim Caldwell or Doug Pederson came here. Those guys have a proven track record and a ton of experience.

Brian Flores had never even formally been a defensive coordinator, let alone a head coach. Why would he think he had earned the right to call all the shots with his sub .500 record?

Because he is good? :saywhat When you fire a coach and he becomes the hottest coach on the market? 19-14 with an offense that lacked talent the last two yr?

19-14 is middling. Sort of what we have been since the 90s.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:14 am 
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I'm not sure Flores is the hot target around the league.

I can see the Bears just because that sounds like a team that needs a hard a$$ to come get people in line.

The Giants because of the allure of Watson.

But I'm not sure the rest of the league is jumping all over itself to bring in Flores.

I'm kind of tuning out the national noise and pearl clutching over his firing. There is a lot agent narrative and face saving being done. Same can be said for Miami's leaks of how bad the environment was with him.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:08 am 
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Rich wrote:
Dphins4me wrote:
Rich wrote:
If this is accurate...

Maybe Grier needs to grow a spine and act like a true GM, especially if you are bringing in a guy with no head coaching experience. I could understand his approach if Jim Caldwell or Doug Pederson came here. Those guys have a proven track record and a ton of experience.

Brian Flores had never even formally been a defensive coordinator, let alone a head coach. Why would he think he had earned the right to call all the shots with his sub .500 record?

Because he is good? :saywhat When you fire a coach and he becomes the hottest coach on the market? 19-14 with an offense that lacked talent the last two yr?

19-14 is middling. Sort of what we have been since the 90s.


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Without any context, I would agree with what you said. But with context and the environment / situation he was put in, I think over .500 is actually pretty legit. Certainly not warranted of a firing and a media trash leaking frenzy by this organization. Screw Ross. And Grier.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:25 am 
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The Don wrote:

Without any context, I would agree with what you said. But with context and the environment / situation he was put in, I think over .500 is actually pretty legit. Certainly not warranted of a firing and a media trash leaking frenzy by this organization. Screw Ross. And Grier.


The leaking is always like that as everyone looks to save face. It sounds like the issues are true. Is anyone else getting tired of the merry go round that we Dolphins fans have to endure? It's another reboot process, and if you look at the coaches getting fired, the chances that we'll get another lemon is high and we'll be back in this same spot after 3 years.

I also agree that Flores did a very good job with this team defensively, but offensively you couldn't find a worst job.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:38 am 
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The Don wrote:
Without any context, I would agree with what you said. But with context and the environment / situation he was put in, I think over .500 is actually pretty legit. Certainly not warranted of a firing and a media trash leaking frenzy by this organization. Screw Ross. And Grier.


The context appears to be that Flores was creating an antagonistic work environment. The first glimpse we saw of this was Minkah Fitzpatrick. Then all of the coordinators going in and out. Chan Gailey's one and done. Kyle Van Noy. Now we are hearing he had an antagonistic relationship with Tua and Grier.

You can be tough on people and set high expectations without creating vitriol. Leaders figure out a way to get players and people around them to buy into things. Children demand what they want and throw tantrums when they don't get it.

Of course, this is all conjecture based on what we are hearing from multiple sources.

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Big Dave wrote:
It's another reboot process, and if you look at the coaches getting fired, the chances that we'll get another lemon is high and we'll be back in this same spot after 3 years.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:01 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Big Dave wrote:
It's another reboot process, and if you look at the coaches getting fired, the chances that we'll get another lemon is high and we'll be back in this same spot after 3 years.


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Why not trade a our first round pick for Sean Payton? Sounds crazy, but I'm tired of going after retreads and coordinators. We have plenty of cap to add players.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:24 pm 
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Big Dave wrote:
AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Big Dave wrote:
It's another reboot process, and if you look at the coaches getting fired, the chances that we'll get another lemon is high and we'll be back in this same spot after 3 years.


Image


Why not trade a our first round pick for Sean Payton? Sounds crazy, but I'm tired of going after retreads and coordinators. We have plenty of cap to add players.


Sign me up for that! (New Orleans would never.... would they?)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:31 pm 
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It cost the phins a 1st rounder for the Don. Although it was not a trade.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:08 pm 
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Rich wrote:
19-14 is middling. Sort of what we have been since the 90s.
Maybe, but he at least made Miami a team to be concerned with.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:13 pm 
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Dphins4me wrote:
Rich wrote:
19-14 is middling. Sort of what we have been since the 90s.
Maybe, but he at least made Miami a team to be concerned with.


If you have an absolutely terrible QB, sure.

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