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 Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass 
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Post Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
Wanted to get some thoughts here.

As successful as we were throwing the ball last night during large portions of the game, I noticed we will urgently missing the ability to run/call a screen pass. This is not something uncommon as I've noticed it before.

I can recall 3 times in the Jets game we were threatening to score from withing the 10-15 yard line. We were successful only once with Fasano, then naively tried to run the play again at the end of the game. Marshall was also being taken neutralized in that area as they left him on the outside and was double covered.

Screen pass needed? Our play calling just seemed so anemic in that portion of the field. They were dropping back people into coverage and Henne's options became very limited. We know Henne won't be the type to bust one of those QB sneaks into the endzone and his fade passes had little touch on them. Just seems like a screen pass is needed. If the defense is dropping back, that means the back field and immediate LOS is open to develop plays and blocking for a screen.

Why is this though? Why do we not run these plays? Do we not have an athletic enough offensive line? I know SIP has the propensity to build big beefy ones.

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Last edited by Rock Sexton on Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:20 am
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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
The screen pass is one of the best play calls to counter the blitz. It baffles me as well.


Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:23 am
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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
In blitz packages it could work. But last night I think they new what blitz's were comming, at least the basics of them.

On a normal basis I think its due to the defenses always stacking the line, once its not a run the LB's drop of and wait for the RB's coming out. I think when Ronnie got leveled (a nice helmet to helmet with no flag) it was a screen play read perfectly and lost yards..
Im not certain, but I think that was a little screen.

Also we ran one with a dump pass to Polite and he picked up a first...

Although I may be wrong... But I always considered those check down passes screens...

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Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:46 am
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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
10acjed wrote:
In blitz packages it could work. But last night I think they new what blitz's were comming, at least the basics of them.

On a normal basis I think its due to the defenses always stacking the line, once its not a run the LB's drop of and wait for the RB's coming out. I think when Ronnie got leveled (a nice helmet to helmet with no flag) it was a screen play read perfectly and lost yards..
Im not certain, but I think that was a little screen.

Also we ran one with a dump pass to Polite and he picked up a first...

Although I may be wrong... But I always considered those check down passes screens...


Check downs though come on Henne going thru his progressions. I'm referring to where they deliberately set it up as the primary. I know the play of which you speak though, in which David Harris blew up Ronnie Brown.

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Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:50 am
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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
You have to have great guard and center footwork to carry out screens. This team's interior line still lacks cohesion...it's tough to run a play when you don't have the personnel for it.

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Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:16 pm
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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
Iowafin wrote:
You have to have great guard and center footwork to carry out screens. This team's interior line still lacks cohesion...it's tough to run a play when you don't have the personnel for it.


That's what I've been thinking ..... I guess it's pretty much common sense, if they're not running it - they don't have the personnel for it ......... particularly from the O-Line stand point. It's too bad, because the screen pass is such an essential component of a successful offense.

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Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:23 pm
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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
Iowafin wrote:
You have to have great guard and center footwork to carry out screens. This team's interior line still lacks cohesion...it's tough to run a play when you don't have the personnel for it.


Forget cohesion. They just can't pull. We don't have any athletic O-lineman. That's the reason I wanted Donald Thomas on our starting 5; the dude could get out there and plow the road. Incognito is a stiff and Berger is surprisingly bad in space.


Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:23 pm
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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
Makchell wrote:
The screen pass is one of the best play calls to counter the blitz. It baffles me as well.


Marshall single-handedly tamed the Jets' blitz last night; a screen pass would have been eaten alive for much of the night. They were dropping 7 and 8 guys most of the game after Marshall took it over.

The key in this situation, especially in the RZ is to throw one high and on a rope in Marshall's direction and let him go get it. There's no excuse not to, especially when he was abusing the secondary all game, and has a serious size advantage over anyone they could match up on him. At worst, it's incomplete and we lose anyways.

I agree that a screen pass needs to be developed, but I'm not sure of its utility in the RZ. In between the 20s, Cam showed us that it can be deadly when used with RB (who, if we recall, was raging all over the league despite our team sucking).

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Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:31 pm
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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
Phins Rock wrote:
Iowafin wrote:
You have to have great guard and center footwork to carry out screens. This team's interior line still lacks cohesion...it's tough to run a play when you don't have the personnel for it.


Forget cohesion. They just can't pull. We don't have any athletic O-lineman. That's the reason I wanted Donald Thomas on our starting 5; the dude could get out there and plow the road. Incognito is a stiff and Berger is surprisingly bad in space.


Thomas? Isn't he out of the league right now? Why keep a guy no one wants?

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Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:32 pm
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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
eleaf wrote:
Marshall single-handedly tamed the Jets' blitz last night; a screen pass would have been eaten alive for much of the night. They were dropping 7 and 8 guys most of the game after Marshall took it over.

The key in this situation, especially in the RZ is to throw one high and on a rope in Marshall's direction and let him go get it. There's no excuse not to, especially when he was abusing the secondary all game, and has a serious size advantage over anyone they could match up on him. At worst, it's incomplete and we lose anyways.

I agree that a screen pass needs to be developed, but I'm not sure of its utility in the RZ. In between the 20s, Cam showed us that it can be deadly when used with RB (who, if we recall, was raging all over the league despite our team sucking).


Well I was thinking about it in terms of if they're dropping guys back into coverage, that leaves us at an advantage in terms of blockers at the line of scrimmage. You swing it out to Ronnie and theoretically the blockers should be able to set up the rest of the field ..... alas as previously pointed out, we don't have athletic guys up front to set that up.

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Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:37 pm
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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
Rock Sexton wrote:
eleaf wrote:
Marshall single-handedly tamed the Jets' blitz last night; a screen pass would have been eaten alive for much of the night. They were dropping 7 and 8 guys most of the game after Marshall took it over.

The key in this situation, especially in the RZ is to throw one high and on a rope in Marshall's direction and let him go get it. There's no excuse not to, especially when he was abusing the secondary all game, and has a serious size advantage over anyone they could match up on him. At worst, it's incomplete and we lose anyways.

I agree that a screen pass needs to be developed, but I'm not sure of its utility in the RZ. In between the 20s, Cam showed us that it can be deadly when used with RB (who, if we recall, was raging all over the league despite our team sucking).


Well I was thinking about it in terms of if they're dropping guys back into coverage, that leaves us at an advantage in terms of blockers at the line of scrimmage. You swing it out to Ronnie and theoretically the blockers should be able to set up the rest of the field ..... alas as previously pointed out, we don't have athletic guys up front to set that up.


The screen works best when there is an aggressive blitz. You allow the rushers to go up field and take themselves out of the play, letting the OLinemen to block the remainder of the guys down field where they have not only a numbers advantage, but a size one as well. There is no numbers (or size) advantage when the D drops guys back because the OLinemen still need to block the front 7. Running a screen when the D drops 8 is the best way to have your screen play sniffed out and stuffed.

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Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:37 pm
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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
Parcells(Henning) and his system, has always been big on screen plays.....Not sure why they don't use it more but i'm sure they have a good reason considering the history of using it....Weather it be because of the zone blitz or personel


Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:56 pm
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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
kev1321 wrote:
Weather it be because of the zone blitz or personel


Whether and personnel. And yes, it's the personnel.

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Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:20 pm
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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
I have been complaining about the lack of a screen pass in our repertoire for quite some time. I don't think it would work well in the red zone....but it sure would have helped slow down that Jets pass rush last night. If our guards and center can't pull, then run a middle screen....it just makes sense to try to get blockers and our backs against LB's and secondary players only....let the linemen (and blitzing linebackers) blow by. Other teams kill us with screen passes.

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Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:18 pm
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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
FrustratedFinFan wrote:
I have been complaining about the lack of a screen pass in our repertoire for quite some time. I don't think it would work well in the red zone....but it sure would have helped slow down that Jets pass rush last night. If our guards and center can't pull, then run a middle screen....it just makes sense to try to get blockers and our backs against LB's and secondary players only....let the linemen (and blitzing linebackers) blow by. Other teams kill us with screen passes.


Heck, even a swing pass to the sidelines. Doesn't necessarily have to be a screen .... but dang, all the best teams know how to run a screen. The Patriots have feasted on it for years.

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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
we do need to run screens but they only work in the right situations. Last night, for most of the night they were in man coverage. on top of that they were in press coverage. Screens won't work as well when the defense is in man coverage. Marshall has a lot to do with it. Case in point, the one backside screen to Brown when he got plastered in the helmet.

We really need bubble screens to Bess and quick draws or maybe even the shuffle pass


Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:03 am
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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
finfan808 wrote:
We really need bubble screens to Bess and quick draws or maybe even the shuffle pass


Yes. We need to get the ball quickly to the receivers, we need to run draws, we need to run screens...we need to sustain drives. We need pulling guards. Henning has been very....different this season. I don't know why this is. This offense can be so good, but for whatever reason it's being hindered.

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Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:39 pm
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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
FrustratedFinFan wrote:
I have been complaining about the lack of a screen pass in our repertoire for quite some time. I don't think it would work well in the red zone....but it sure would have helped slow down that Jets pass rush last night. If our guards and center can't pull, then run a middle screen....it just makes sense to try to get blockers and our backs against LB's and secondary players only....let the linemen (and blitzing linebackers) blow by. Other teams kill us with screen passes.


We didn't need any help slowing down the pass rush by using the screen. Marshall did that on his own.

Henne had time all night. He read what little pass rush there was well, and the line blocked pretty well most of the night.

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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
I am glad Marshall was involved....how about setting up some of our other star players (Ricky and Ronnie) to make big plays? The Jets defense was attacking all night. Screens and draws are effective ways to get mismatches for your running backs....as well as some open field to run in. Ronnie does great pounding out yardage...even without good blocks. Imagine what he might do with a little more daylight to work with? Focusing on one player on offense eventually leads to that player being shut down. Also, Henne has got to start seeing the open receivers......

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Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:54 pm
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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
FrustratedFinFan wrote:
I am glad Marshall was involved....how about setting up some of our other star players (Ricky and Ronnie) to make big plays? The Jets defense was attacking all night. Screens and draws are effective ways to get mismatches for your running backs....as well as some open field to run in. Ronnie does great pounding out yardage...even without good blocks. Imagine what he might do with a little more daylight to work with? Focusing on one player on offense eventually leads to that player being shut down. Also, Henne has got to start seeing the open receivers......


You can't run screen passes if you don't have an offensive line that can get out and block in space. Our O-line is mauling when blocking down hill, no doubt, and serviceable along the interior and very good on the outside in terms of pass protection. But they're all stiffs. Smiley, Grove, Thomas was a three-some that could move. They all pulled and got outside well. These guys that we have in place now just do not.

Henne is a young QB, you have to give it time. But I'd say he was seeing the field pretty darn well; the guy threw for 363 yards, and it was 400 if you include the PI he drew on the Hartline pass inside the 5.

I re-watched the NFL Network telecast and one thing that I noticed is that when it looks like he is looking at one receiver and staring him down, he's not. A camera angle they showed displayed his eyes perfectly and showed where he was looking. He was actually moving his eyes around a lot. Now, whether he was looking at other WR's, or at the coverage I don't know. But he doesn't stare down guys the way he used to, which is an improvement.

I agree he missed a couple of open guys, but he's developing really well. He's not turning the ball over, managing the game well and moving the ball in between the 20's. The next thing on the list is playcalling/decision making by Henne in the redzone. We need to start putting the ball in the end zone. We have the NFL's most physical WR, a great slot guy, another big body in Hartline, a solid TE who is good in traffic, a QB who can fit it into tight spaces and a tremendous run game. We should be putting the ball in the endzone more efficiently, and it's frustrating to see Carpenter come out after a 12 play drive that stalls at the 15. Hopefully they improve for NE, because FG's won't keep up with Brady.


Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:28 pm
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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
The screens we have been attempting are weak.. The TE screen? Busted. The RB screens havent been working in the flats either. Henne has no shortball finesse.. at all.

One thing I will say about Cam Cameron that I miss. Man knew how to call a screen. Had some nice ones. Ronnie is dangerous on screens. I'd like to see some screens called over the middle.

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Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:11 pm
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Post Re: Theories on why this team hasn't developed a screen pass
hypocritex wrote:
The screens we have been attempting are weak.. The TE screen? Busted. The RB screens havent been working in the flats either. Henne has no shortball finesse.. at all.

One thing I will say about Cam Cameron that I miss. Man knew how to call a screen. Had some nice ones. Ronnie is dangerous on screens. I'd like to see some screens called over the middle.


Cam used RB better than any other coach we've had. He knew how to get his the ball in space. RB was tearing the league up when he went down in 07.

Too bad he was friggin' horrendous at everything else.

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