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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:23 pm 
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For all those without morals & dignity because its all about winning. Here is your dream team of Champions.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:31 pm 
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Not really.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:40 pm 
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I do not want Watson unless he is legally cleared and the price comes down. Chuckie is okay as a coach. I really do not understand cancel culture….power play for fools.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:24 pm 
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Should be a statute of limitations on dumb stuff you say. Here we are a decade later and he gets fired. I blame it on liberal/college educated dumb a$$3$ who can’t think for themselves and have to react to everything with the strongest condemnation possible or risk not being woke enough.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:36 pm 
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Phin wrote:
Should be a statute of limitations on dumb stuff you say. Here we are a decade later and he gets fired. I blame it on liberal/college educated dumb a$$3$ who can’t think for themselves and have to react to everything with the strongest condemnation possible or risk not being woke enough.


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That's Gruden for you he always said whatever he wanted.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:15 pm 
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If Watson is on Ross' radar , I would have to think that Gruden just earned a blip.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:43 pm 
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Phinished wrote:
I do not want Watson unless he is legally cleared and the price comes down. Chuckie is okay as a coach. I really do not understand cancel culture….power play for fools.

I'd venture a guess the NFL applied the pressure to remove him as coach. Especially when some of those Emails addressed Goodell. NFL wanting to show everyone they care.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:33 am 
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Phin wrote:
Should be a statute of limitations on dumb stuff you say. Here we are a decade later and he gets fired. I blame it on liberal/college educated dumb a$$3$ who can’t think for themselves and have to react to everything with the strongest condemnation possible or risk not being woke enough.


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Except this happened as recently as 2018 and was a pattern of horrible, unacceptable behavior

Being racist, homophobic and misogynistic is not "dumb stuff you say". It should be unacceptable in a civilized society.

If that makes me a "college educated dumb a$$" so be it - I have been called worse and probably will be in the future

I am not sure why being college educated is a negative trait however.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:04 am 
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The standard is not equally applied. Many NFL players should be banned because of the music they are or have listened too , enjoyed, sang along with and maybe is pumped into practices so maybe whole franchises should be banned too.

Some of you guys have been inside a locker room, tape a few minutes of that and see who is left stranding.

There is no path to redemption unless you are of a certain elite part of society. Some elitists can say or do or have in their past any number of cancel culture, wrong think, verbalized or acted out but are forgiven or that inconvenient situation is ignored others can apologize, grovel, etc ... All day long and are canceled anyway.

Used to be you could apologize go to reeducation oops sensitivity classes and be forgiven but now no such luck.

Seems our definition of horrible unacceptable behavior is changed too.

No I am not for racism, mysygony, or using slurs.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:06 am 
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DrLecter wrote:
Phin wrote:
Should be a statute of limitations on dumb stuff you say. Here we are a decade later and he gets fired. I blame it on liberal/college educated dumb a$$3$ who can’t think for themselves and have to react to everything with the strongest condemnation possible or risk not being woke enough.


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Except this happened as recently as 2018 and was a pattern of horrible, unacceptable behavior

Being racist, homophobic and misogynistic is not "dumb stuff you say". It should be unacceptable in a civilized society.

If that makes me a "college educated dumb a$$" so be it - I have been called worse and probably will be in the future

I am not sure why being college educated is a negative trait however.

I am college educated and hold a Masters. I’m specifically talking about people who go to school and become brainwashed drones by liberal professors that try to radicalize them. I’m not anti education, I’m anti brainwashing. The university system has been taken over by the left. They have created the cancel culture drones.
I’m not here to say he should make those remarks, or that he shouldn’t apologize, but at least give the guy the opportunity to apologize and learn from his mistakes. He hasn’t beat his wife, or his trainer, or stole money while brandishing a weapon, or sold drugs, or groped women - I could go on - like a lot of people still playing in this league have. We have an owner in this league who was busted soliciting prostitution and nothing happened to him. Doesn’t that all sound a bit contradictory? What he did was wrong but the punishment isn’t even remotely consistent.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:39 am 
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Phinsforever wrote:
Phin wrote:
Should be a statute of limitations on dumb stuff you say. Here we are a decade later and he gets fired. I blame it on liberal/college educated dumb a$$3$ who can’t think for themselves and have to react to everything with the strongest condemnation possible or risk not being woke enough.


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That's Gruden for you he always said whatever he wanted.


He's a good coach and a fun NFL personality. Too bad that he let his emotions get the best of him and make him say some really stupid stuff. There's no forgiveness or a sense of grace these days from the social media police. Everyone wants justice at no cost.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:08 am 
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Phin wrote:
Should be a statute of limitations on dumb stuff you say. Here we are a decade later and he gets fired. I blame it on liberal/college educated dumb a$$3$ who can’t think for themselves and have to react to everything with the strongest condemnation possible or risk not being woke enough.


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2018 is not a decade later. Also imagine asking a team of black players to play hard for and respect a guy like this. Simply not going to work.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:21 am 
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Phin wrote:
Should be a statute of limitations on dumb stuff you say. Here we are a decade later and he gets fired. I blame it on liberal/college educated dumb a$$3$ who can’t think for themselves and have to react to everything with the strongest condemnation possible or risk not being woke enough.


Its one thing to think it, its another to say it. But never put anything in writing.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:24 am 
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Big Dave wrote:
He's a good coach and a fun NFL personality. Too bad that he let his emotions get the best of him and make him say some really stupid stuff. There's no forgiveness or a sense of grace these days from the social media police. Everyone wants justice at no cost.


I don't think you can just chalk it up to him letting his emotions get the best of him. There are evidently seven years of emails worth of similar type of language, so this is who he is. Listening to ESPN radio this morning (and the other day), Keyshawn Johnson had nothing good to say about Gruden, going back to his days of playing for him. He wasn't surprised by any of this.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:30 am 
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prof123 wrote:

I don't think you can just chalk it up to him letting his emotions get the best of him. There are evidently seven years of emails worth of similar type of language, so this is who he is. Listening to ESPN radio this morning (and the other day), Keyshawn Johnson had nothing good to say about Gruden, going back to his days of playing for him. He wasn't surprised by any of this.

Agree. Its not a one time Email on a hot button matter or he was lashing out the the recipient. Its his personality.


Last edited by Dphins4me on Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:38 am 
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Phin wrote:
Should be a statute of limitations on dumb stuff you say. Here we are a decade later and he gets fired. I blame it on liberal/college educated dumb a$$3$ who can’t think for themselves and have to react to everything with the strongest condemnation possible or risk not being woke enough.



What is the statute of limitations on the dumbness of the comment that blames the liberal/college educated who can't think for themselves? There are people of all political persuasions and educational levels who aren't very good at thinking for themselves.

You say you blame "it" on liberal/college educated dumba$$e$ ... What do you mean by "it"?
Are you saying one is woke or college educated if they find Gruden's comments inappropriate?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:46 am 
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prof123 wrote:
Big Dave wrote:
He's a good coach and a fun NFL personality. Too bad that he let his emotions get the best of him and make him say some really stupid stuff. There's no forgiveness or a sense of grace these days from the social media police. Everyone wants justice at no cost.


I don't think you can just chalk it up to him letting his emotions get the best of him. There are evidently seven years of emails worth of similar type of language, so this is who he is. Listening to ESPN radio this morning (and the other day), Keyshawn Johnson had nothing good to say about Gruden, going back to his days of playing for him. He wasn't surprised by any of this.


Yeah, I can agree with that. And, if it were just "emotions" these are still his thoughts coming out. Why did this stuff come out all of a sudden? Why not years ago?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:33 am 
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Big Dave wrote:
Yeah, I can agree with that. And, if it were just "emotions" these are still his thoughts coming out. Why did this stuff come out all of a sudden? Why not years ago?


Good question. Keyshawn Johnson did say that he (Keyshawn) tried raising some of the issues back in the day, but his voice was ignored, because he was just a loud-mouthed trouble-maker, or words to the effect.

It was a different era, for sure. I think if the only evidence of this was from, say, 20 years ago, and Gruden gave a real apology, it wouldn't be a big story. But by 2018 we all, including Gruden, should have known better.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:44 am 
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Phin wrote:
and have to react to everything with the strongest condemnation possible or risk not being woke enough.


Get in line soldier!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:56 am 
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I’ll confess, my information was old. I hadn’t heard the thing about the latest email being 2018. More has come to light than my initial information about emails in 2011. I’m sure more information will come out in the upcoming days and weeks.
SORRY, I shouldn’t have rushed to judgement.

I do stand behind my remarks about how the university system has produced the cancel culture. I’ve both personally experienced it and seen it, as well as having two kids in college right now and hearing the nonsense being spouted on campuses. I’m not referring to being against racist/homophobic remarks, only the people who go around canceling people they don’t like or people in history.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:58 am 
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Phin wrote:
He hasn’t beat his wife, or his trainer, or stole money while brandishing a weapon, or sold drugs, or groped women - I could go on - like a lot of people still playing in this league have. We have an owner in this league who was busted soliciting prostitution and nothing happened to him. Doesn’t that all sound a bit contradictory? What he did was wrong but the punishment isn’t even remotely consistent.


That’s what happens when the left leaning sports media (I don’t suck up to left or right btw just being real) gets their d*cks involved in everything. They’re bringing everybody up (or down the way I see it) to their boring plaque on the wall code of conduct of corporate ethics bull****. They want all of American society and grown men to be hovered over their entire lives just waiting to be disciplined for a bad word by your teacher just like in early days school all the way up until you are collecting social security.

Hard. Pass.

It’s so crazy and mad how some people aren’t necessarily down for that kinda thing huh? Oh, and on your topic of consistency, you can literally dissect modern liberal/woke ideology down to its nucleus and see plain as day that what they are really best at is being consistently inconsistent and hypocritical. It’s a total disingenuous farce.

None of this is a jab at Lecter though, I enjoy your takes on Bills weeks bro. I can talk about this kinda shhh with anybody and not feel offended or think of you a diff way so it’s all good. We all are wired differently and I view people as individuals which is why this kinda stuff gets on my nerves when they force EVERYBODY all onto the same square on the grid. In a country with a puzzled cultural identity like ours with everybody from around the globe living here, the militant PC agenda is a recipe for unrest and disaster. They need to let people be.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:01 am 
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Phin wrote:
Should be a statute of limitations on dumb stuff you say. Here we are a decade later and he gets fired. I blame it on liberal/college educated dumb a$$3$ who can’t think for themselves and have to react to everything with the strongest condemnation possible or risk not being woke enough.



I'm 100% with you on this one. It seems they have nothing better to do these days than go back and dig up 10 year old sheeit on someone.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:04 am 
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ArtieChokePhin wrote:
Phin wrote:
Should be a statute of limitations on dumb stuff you say. Here we are a decade later and he gets fired. I blame it on liberal/college educated dumb a$$3$ who can’t think for themselves and have to react to everything with the strongest condemnation possible or risk not being woke enough.



I'm 100% with you on this one. It seems they have nothing better to do these days than go back and dig up 10 year old sheeit on someone.


While I agree with this, he's said things as early as just a few years ago. It's not good, and this argument just doesn't hold up with Gruden.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:36 am 
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Big Dave wrote:
ArtieChokePhin wrote:
Phin wrote:
Should be a statute of limitations on dumb stuff you say. Here we are a decade later and he gets fired. I blame it on liberal/college educated dumb a$$3$ who can’t think for themselves and have to react to everything with the strongest condemnation possible or risk not being woke enough.



I'm 100% with you on this one. It seems they have nothing better to do these days than go back and dig up 10 year old sheeit on someone.


While I agree with this, he's said things as early as just a few years ago. It's not good, and this argument just doesn't hold up with Gruden.


If everyone's personal conversations were leaked, nobody would have a job.

Gruden just lost his entire career and will not be able to get involved with anything football related for the rest of his life.

YIKES!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:54 am 
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Big Dave wrote:
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Why did this stuff come out all of a sudden? Why not years ago?

Investigating the Redskins and Bruce Allen use to work for them. This is Gruden being caught in something he had nothing to do it.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:06 am 
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Dphins4me wrote:
Investigating the Redskins and Bruce Allen use to work for them. This is Gruden being caught in something he had nothing to do it.


Could you argue entrapment on some level? Regardless of what the man said this reeks of serious under the table stank just like any other time somebody accomplished gets sucker punched by social media drones. A black hole.

I feel for Gruden.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:09 am 
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Phin wrote:
I’ll confess, my information was old. I hadn’t heard the thing about the latest email being 2018. More has come to light than my initial information about emails in 2011. I’m sure more information will come out in the upcoming days and weeks.
SORRY, I shouldn’t have rushed to judgement.

I do stand behind my remarks about how the university system has produced the cancel culture. I’ve both personally experienced it and seen it, as well as having two kids in college right now and hearing the nonsense being spouted on campuses. I’m not referring to being against racist/homophobic remarks, only the people who go around canceling people they don’t like or people in history.


Fair enough -- you are right that more has come out and probably more will come out.

I can attest to universities being liberal, overall, and they have gotten more that way. Some of us view that as a good thing, though :) I don't know exactly what you mean by "canceling", because that means different things to different people.

For me it means not supporting businesses (or entertainers or authors or teams) who engage in behavior or who hold positions that I deem inappropriate. Both conservatives and liberals do it, right? I've seen fans (usually conservative) say they are not going to watch NBA or NFL games any more because they have gotten too political. I know people (usually liberals) who won't eat at Chick Filet because they don't like their corporate stance regarding LGBTQ. I know conservatives who will no longer support Starbucks. Isn't this how things are supposed to work in a capitalist society? We "vote" with our dollars.

If you want to call that "canceling", fine, but I think it is a good thing. In the past, we have as a society canceled things like slavery, discriminatory laws, etc. That was good. I think that when people rant about the cancelation culture, what they are really saying is that they don't agree with what is being canceled. That's a different debate.

Well, I vowed I was not going to enter into any political discussions on a sports forum -- this was supposed to be a haven away from that. So, I'll consider this a one-timet thing. Back to the Dolphins for me! Ugg -- just the thought of it helps me understand why we might find political discussions more palatable.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:30 am 
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prof123 wrote:

For me it means not supporting businesses (or entertainers or authors or teams) who engage in behavior or who hold positions that I deem inappropriate. Both conservatives and liberals do it, right? I've seen fans (usually conservative) say they are not going to watch NBA or NFL games any more because they have gotten too political. I know people (usually liberals) who won't eat at Chick Filet because they don't like their corporate stance regarding LGBTQ. I know conservatives who will no longer support Starbucks. Isn't this how things are supposed to work in a capitalist society? We "vote" with our dollars.

If you want to call that "canceling", fine, but I think it is a good thing. In the past, we have as a society canceled things like slavery, discriminatory laws, etc. That was good. I think that when people rant about the cancelation culture, what they are really saying is that they don't agree with what is being canceled. That's a different debate.

Well, I vowed I was not going to enter into any political discussions on a sports forum -- this was supposed to be a haven away from that. So, I'll consider this a one-timet thing. Back to the Dolphins for me! Ugg -- just the thought of it helps me understand why we might find political discussions more palatable.
Cancelling is calling for mass people to partake in what I want and believe and going after someone or some company.

Me making a personal decision of not supporting a company is not me cancelling them. Its me not supporting their actions. I did ask another person to join me in not spending money at the establishment.

I ask my wife to not support Target when they changed their bathroom policy. Not for the simplistic reason most may think, because I'm not concerned with the man who truly believes he is a woman using a females bathroom, but because of the men ( perverts ) wanting to take advantage of that policy. Being a parent of a teenage daughter caused me concern and I believed it was irresponsible of a company to put the thoughts of one over the potential safety of another.

Now, I did not go online or call for the mass protest of Target. I left it up to every other individual to come to their own conclusion.

You are correct. We "Vote" with out dollars and in a capitalist ( at this moment ) society that is how you do it.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:35 pm 
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prof123 wrote:
Phin wrote:
I’ll confess, my information was old. I hadn’t heard the thing about the latest email being 2018. More has come to light than my initial information about emails in 2011. I’m sure more information will come out in the upcoming days and weeks.
SORRY, I shouldn’t have rushed to judgement.

I do stand behind my remarks about how the university system has produced the cancel culture. I’ve both personally experienced it and seen it, as well as having two kids in college right now and hearing the nonsense being spouted on campuses. I’m not referring to being against racist/homophobic remarks, only the people who go around canceling people they don’t like or people in history.


Fair enough -- you are right that more has come out and probably more will come out.

I can attest to universities being liberal, overall, and they have gotten more that way. Some of us view that as a good thing, though :) I don't know exactly what you mean by "canceling", because that means different things to different people.

For me it means not supporting businesses (or entertainers or authors or teams) who engage in behavior or who hold positions that I deem inappropriate. Both conservatives and liberals do it, right? I've seen fans (usually conservative) say they are not going to watch NBA or NFL games any more because they have gotten too political. I know people (usually liberals) who won't eat at Chick Filet because they don't like their corporate stance regarding LGBTQ. I know conservatives who will no longer support Starbucks. Isn't this how things are supposed to work in a capitalist society? We "vote" with our dollars.

If you want to call that "canceling", fine, but I think it is a good thing. In the past, we have as a society canceled things like slavery, discriminatory laws, etc. That was good. I think that when people rant about the cancelation culture, what they are really saying is that they don't agree with what is being canceled. That's a different debate.

Well, I vowed I was not going to enter into any political discussions on a sports forum -- this was supposed to be a haven away from that. So, I'll consider this a one-timet thing. Back to the Dolphins for me! Ugg -- just the thought of it helps me understand why we might find political discussions more palatable.

I respect your post and your views. I am a Libertarian so I don’t fit neatly into political norms (sides) very well. I eat at chik a filet, drink coffee at Starbucks and shop at Target. I don’t care what their politics are, I care about their products. I wish more people were that way and businesses and sports were apolitical. There is plenty of room in the public forum for people to express their political leanings. We don’t need virtue signaling corporations who really only care about their bottom line. Companies see a profit in pandering to pride month or black history (fill in the blank) and try to capitalize on it.
When I talk about cancel culture I am specifically speaking to the pulling down of statues, destroying of history/books,dissenting voices that people feel ‘unsafe’ with. As someone who loves history and studies it, this kind of crap comes into play right before the fall of a nation or civil war. I’m not talking bout advocacy, equal rights/access, I’m talking about people silencing those they don’t agree with, censorship, online bullying of political adversaries, etc.. I could go on…..

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:04 pm 
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Phin wrote:
I respect your post and your views. I am a Libertarian so I don’t fit neatly into political norms (sides) very well. I eat at chik a filet, drink coffee at Starbucks and shop at Target. I don’t care what their politics are, I care about their products. I wish more people were that way and businesses and sports were apolitical. There is plenty of room in the public forum for people to express their political leanings. We don’t need virtue signaling corporations who really only care about their bottom line. Companies see a profit in pandering to pride month or black history (fill in the blank) and try to capitalize on it.
When I talk about cancel culture I am specifically speaking to the pulling down of statues, destroying of history/books,dissenting voices that people feel ‘unsafe’ with. As someone who loves history and studies it, this kind of crap comes into play right before the fall of a nation or civil war. I’m not talking bout advocacy, equal rights/access, I’m talking about people silencing those they don’t agree with, censorship, online bullying of political adversaries, etc.. I could go on…..


Thanks for explaining -- I am quite sympathetic to Libertarian views and have a lot of them myself.

If I could push back a bit, though, what would you say if someone had built statues of the suicide pilots from 9/11 and afterwards a significant public outcry arose to take down the statues, and the one who built them said they were important to have because they spoke to the history of the event? I daresay there would be NO SUPPORT (and rightly not) for having those statues of the pilots. If we want to remember the history, it should be done paying tribute to the heros, not to the bad guys, right? Having statues of the pilots would be disrespectful to those who were harmed by them. NO ONE would complain about having those statues canceled, whether it was on public or private ground.

I submit then, as I said before, that people's opinions on whether statues or other items are removed have more to do with what they think is being promoted/celebrated by the statues than about the philosophical of cancel culture ideology. Some people think Robert E Lee was a hero and others think he was directly responsible for harming their ancestors. We have different ideas of what is noble and what is awful in this country, which is fine. But let's call it what it is.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:02 pm 
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prof123 wrote:
Phin wrote:
I respect your post and your views. I am a Libertarian so I don’t fit neatly into political norms (sides) very well. I eat at chik a filet, drink coffee at Starbucks and shop at Target. I don’t care what their politics are, I care about their products. I wish more people were that way and businesses and sports were apolitical. There is plenty of room in the public forum for people to express their political leanings. We don’t need virtue signaling corporations who really only care about their bottom line. Companies see a profit in pandering to pride month or black history (fill in the blank) and try to capitalize on it.
When I talk about cancel culture I am specifically speaking to the pulling down of statues, destroying of history/books,dissenting voices that people feel ‘unsafe’ with. As someone who loves history and studies it, this kind of crap comes into play right before the fall of a nation or civil war. I’m not talking bout advocacy, equal rights/access, I’m talking about people silencing those they don’t agree with, censorship, online bullying of political adversaries, etc.. I could go on…..


Thanks for explaining -- I am quite sympathetic to Libertarian views and have a lot of them myself.

If I could push back a bit, though, what would you say if someone had built statues of the suicide pilots from 9/11 and afterwards a significant public outcry arose to take down the statues, and the one who built them said they were important to have because they spoke to the history of the event? I daresay there would be NO SUPPORT (and rightly not) for having those statues of the pilots. If we want to remember the history, it should be done paying tribute to the heros, not to the bad guys, right? Having statues of the pilots would be disrespectful to those who were harmed by them. NO ONE would complain about having those statues canceled, whether it was on public or private ground.

I submit then, as I said before, that people's opinions on whether statues or other items are removed have more to do with what they think is being promoted/celebrated by the statues than about the philosophical of cancel culture ideology. Some people think Robert E Lee was a hero and others think he was directly responsible for harming their ancestors. We have different ideas of what is noble and what is awful in this country, which is fine. But let's call it what it is.


Yet we pay for an art endowment that put an image of Jesus in a jar of urine in the Smithsonian art museum. It is okay to offend Christians. We even had elected officials refer to 9-11 as “some people did something.” Cancel culture goes beyond righting wrongs….it only rights wrongs against select groups. It is not concerned with justice at all.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:43 pm 
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Phinished wrote:
prof123 wrote:
Phin wrote:
I respect your post and your views. I am a Libertarian so I don’t fit neatly into political norms (sides) very well. I eat at chik a filet, drink coffee at Starbucks and shop at Target. I don’t care what their politics are, I care about their products. I wish more people were that way and businesses and sports were apolitical. There is plenty of room in the public forum for people to express their political leanings. We don’t need virtue signaling corporations who really only care about their bottom line. Companies see a profit in pandering to pride month or black history (fill in the blank) and try to capitalize on it.
When I talk about cancel culture I am specifically speaking to the pulling down of statues, destroying of history/books,dissenting voices that people feel ‘unsafe’ with. As someone who loves history and studies it, this kind of crap comes into play right before the fall of a nation or civil war. I’m not talking bout advocacy, equal rights/access, I’m talking about people silencing those they don’t agree with, censorship, online bullying of political adversaries, etc.. I could go on…..


Thanks for explaining -- I am quite sympathetic to Libertarian views and have a lot of them myself.

If I could push back a bit, though, what would you say if someone had built statues of the suicide pilots from 9/11 and afterwards a significant public outcry arose to take down the statues, and the one who built them said they were important to have because they spoke to the history of the event? I daresay there would be NO SUPPORT (and rightly not) for having those statues of the pilots. If we want to remember the history, it should be done paying tribute to the heros, not to the bad guys, right? Having statues of the pilots would be disrespectful to those who were harmed by them. NO ONE would complain about having those statues canceled, whether it was on public or private ground.

I submit then, as I said before, that people's opinions on whether statues or other items are removed have more to do with what they think is being promoted/celebrated by the statues than about the philosophical of cancel culture ideology. Some people think Robert E Lee was a hero and others think he was directly responsible for harming their ancestors. We have different ideas of what is noble and what is awful in this country, which is fine. But let's call it what it is.


Yet we pay for an art endowment that put an image of Jesus in a jar of urine in the Smithsonian art museum. It is okay to offend Christians. We even had elected officials refer to 9-11 as “some people did something.” Cancel culture goes beyond righting wrongs….it only rights wrongs against select groups. It is not concerned with justice at all.

Agreed


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:23 pm 
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prof123 wrote:
Phin wrote:
I respect your post and your views. I am a Libertarian so I don’t fit neatly into political norms (sides) very well. I eat at chik a filet, drink coffee at Starbucks and shop at Target. I don’t care what their politics are, I care about their products. I wish more people were that way and businesses and sports were apolitical. There is plenty of room in the public forum for people to express their political leanings. We don’t need virtue signaling corporations who really only care about their bottom line. Companies see a profit in pandering to pride month or black history (fill in the blank) and try to capitalize on it.
When I talk about cancel culture I am specifically speaking to the pulling down of statues, destroying of history/books,dissenting voices that people feel ‘unsafe’ with. As someone who loves history and studies it, this kind of crap comes into play right before the fall of a nation or civil war. I’m not talking bout advocacy, equal rights/access, I’m talking about people silencing those they don’t agree with, censorship, online bullying of political adversaries, etc.. I could go on…..


Thanks for explaining -- I am quite sympathetic to Libertarian views and have a lot of them myself.

If I could push back a bit, though, what would you say if someone had built statues of the suicide pilots from 9/11 and afterwards a significant public outcry arose to take down the statues, and the one who built them said they were important to have because they spoke to the history of the event? I daresay there would be NO SUPPORT (and rightly not) for having those statues of the pilots. If we want to remember the history, it should be done paying tribute to the heros, not to the bad guys, right? Having statues of the pilots would be disrespectful to those who were harmed by them. NO ONE would complain about having those statues canceled, whether it was on public or private ground.

I submit then, as I said before, that people's opinions on whether statues or other items are removed have more to do with what they think is being promoted/celebrated by the statues than about the philosophical of cancel culture ideology. Some people think Robert E Lee was a hero and others think he was directly responsible for harming their ancestors. We have different ideas of what is noble and what is awful in this country, which is fine. But let's call it what it is.

Bro, I get what you are saying but you are defending something that has grown into a monster. Where do you draw the line?
They got rid of the George Washington pew in the church in Philly because he had slaves. So has the criteria for having a monument become whether a person was a perfect saint in their life? If that’s the case all statues should be torn down. In another instance a statue of a black man who freed slaves was destroyed by an ignorant mass of cancel culture morons who wouldn’t listen to reason or facts.
And we do have a memorial for 911. My question is will Muslims in the future demand that we remove it because it’s discriminatory towards Muslims and a symbol of hatred and distrust towards Muslims? Actually that’s already been discussed but hasn’t generated much steam… yet.
Should we get rid of Lincoln’s memorial because he only freed slaves but allowed for segregation?
Do we get rid of crosses on the graves of war veterans in our public memorial cemeteries because that’s a symbol of Christianity?
Where does it end?
As a Libertarian I sympathize for most liberals as I think most are moderate, however, the party is being taken over by the far left. On the right most have fairly well defined what too far right is (racism, nationalism, etc). Although there are a lot of devoted Trumpers who have a cult like devotion to him and scare me.
On the Left I’ve not seen a definition of what is too far left. Socialism is on the rise, reverse racism (which is just racism towards straight white males) is ok, cancel culture, hatred towards public servants, etc etc… So where is the line I ask? I’m not seeing it. The university system is the cess pool responsible for churning out the far left radicals. Hence my original remarks.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:51 pm 
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Phin wrote:
DrLecter wrote:
Phin wrote:
Should be a statute of limitations on dumb stuff you say. Here we are a decade later and he gets fired. I blame it on liberal/college educated dumb a$$3$ who can’t think for themselves and have to react to everything with the strongest condemnation possible or risk not being woke enough.


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Except this happened as recently as 2018 and was a pattern of horrible, unacceptable behavior

Being racist, homophobic and misogynistic is not "dumb stuff you say". It should be unacceptable in a civilized society.

If that makes me a "college educated dumb a$$" so be it - I have been called worse and probably will be in the future

I am not sure why being college educated is a negative trait however.

I am college educated and hold a Masters. I’m specifically talking about people who go to school and become brainwashed drones by liberal professors that try to radicalize them. I’m not anti education, I’m anti brainwashing. The university system has been taken over by the left. They have created the cancel culture drones.
I’m not here to say he should make those remarks, or that he shouldn’t apologize, but at least give the guy the opportunity to apologize and learn from his mistakes. He hasn’t beat his wife, or his trainer, or stole money while brandishing a weapon, or sold drugs, or groped women - I could go on - like a lot of people still playing in this league have. We have an owner in this league who was busted soliciting prostitution and nothing happened to him. Doesn’t that all sound a bit contradictory? What he did was wrong but the punishment isn’t even remotely consistent.


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(thought I posted this earlier - but I guess I did not)

I have no problem with those others being punished more severely. Fine by me

But can we stop with myth that this is only a college professor thing? Or that despising bigotry on any level is somehow a negative trait? I left college very conservative. but then as I grew I changed.

For one, no civilized nation should ever accept racist, homophobic or misogyny. We need to be better. Why do we have to tell blacks that they should just accept what Gruden had said? Or tell Carl Nassib to just deal with it? Shouldn't people not have to deal with that?

I am not sure if you are a white hetero male, but I know I am and I know that I have learned a lot by listening to people that have been victims of this kind of treatment. We can and must be better as a nation.

The NFL was able to run out a starting caliber QB for peacefully protesting police violence - now that is ridiculous cancel culture and that sure as heck was not from the brainwashed people on the left - rather it was from angry white right wingers who don't want to hear about how other parts of the our culture live and the issues they deal with.

Gruden losing his job is not this - it is a man who has to lead a cross segment of our society including blacks and one gay man (that we know of)
Does it make any sense at all for him or anybody like him to be in charge of a lockerroom?

Why is the negative connotation focused on trying to get rid of that kind of behavior and not the behavior itself?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:39 pm 
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DrLecter wrote:
Phin wrote:
DrLecter wrote:
Phin wrote:
Should be a statute of limitations on dumb stuff you say. Here we are a decade later and he gets fired. I blame it on liberal/college educated dumb a$$3$ who can’t think for themselves and have to react to everything with the strongest condemnation possible or risk not being woke enough.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Except this happened as recently as 2018 and was a pattern of horrible, unacceptable behavior

Being racist, homophobic and misogynistic is not "dumb stuff you say". It should be unacceptable in a civilized society.

If that makes me a "college educated dumb a$$" so be it - I have been called worse and probably will be in the future

I am not sure why being college educated is a negative trait however.

I am college educated and hold a Masters. I’m specifically talking about people who go to school and become brainwashed drones by liberal professors that try to radicalize them. I’m not anti education, I’m anti brainwashing. The university system has been taken over by the left. They have created the cancel culture drones.
I’m not here to say he should make those remarks, or that he shouldn’t apologize, but at least give the guy the opportunity to apologize and learn from his mistakes. He hasn’t beat his wife, or his trainer, or stole money while brandishing a weapon, or sold drugs, or groped women - I could go on - like a lot of people still playing in this league have. We have an owner in this league who was busted soliciting prostitution and nothing happened to him. Doesn’t that all sound a bit contradictory? What he did was wrong but the punishment isn’t even remotely consistent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



(thought I posted this earlier - but I guess I did not)

I have no problem with those others being punished more severely. Fine by me

But can we stop with myth that this is only a college professor thing? Or that despising bigotry on any level is somehow a negative trait? I left college very conservative. but then as I grew I changed.

For one, no civilized nation should ever accept racist, homophobic or misogyny. We need to be better. Why do we have to tell blacks that they should just accept what Gruden had said? Or tell Carl Nassib to just deal with it? Shouldn't people not have to deal with that?

I am not sure if you are a white hetero male, but I know I am and I know that I have learned a lot by listening to people that have been victims of this kind of treatment. We can and must be better as a nation.

The NFL was able to run out a starting caliber QB for peacefully protesting police violence - now that is ridiculous cancel culture and that sure as heck was not from the brainwashed people on the left - rather it was from angry white right wingers who don't want to hear about how other parts of the our culture live and the issues they deal with.

Gruden losing his job is not this - it is a man who has to lead a cross segment of our society including blacks and one gay man (that we know of)
Does it make any sense at all for him or anybody like him to be in charge of a lockerroom?

Why is the negative connotation focused on trying to get rid of that kind of behavior and not the behavior itself?


Becoming “progressive” is not a sign of growing up. I have a Master’s degree and I can see that cancel culture is a weapon walking down a one way street. Gruden’s comments are not defensible, but shame on all the rest of you hypocrites who also are likely sinners of some sort. The punishment in the Gruden case is pretty stiff, but reserved for only some folks. You can wear black face and be Governor of Virginia….and there are many more examples of the one way street I am talking about.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:45 pm 
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Phinished wrote:
DrLecter wrote:
Phin wrote:
DrLecter wrote:
Except this happened as recently as 2018 and was a pattern of horrible, unacceptable behavior

Being racist, homophobic and misogynistic is not "dumb stuff you say". It should be unacceptable in a civilized society.

If that makes me a "college educated dumb a$$" so be it - I have been called worse and probably will be in the future

I am not sure why being college educated is a negative trait however.

I am college educated and hold a Masters. I’m specifically talking about people who go to school and become brainwashed drones by liberal professors that try to radicalize them. I’m not anti education, I’m anti brainwashing. The university system has been taken over by the left. They have created the cancel culture drones.
I’m not here to say he should make those remarks, or that he shouldn’t apologize, but at least give the guy the opportunity to apologize and learn from his mistakes. He hasn’t beat his wife, or his trainer, or stole money while brandishing a weapon, or sold drugs, or groped women - I could go on - like a lot of people still playing in this league have. We have an owner in this league who was busted soliciting prostitution and nothing happened to him. Doesn’t that all sound a bit contradictory? What he did was wrong but the punishment isn’t even remotely consistent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



(thought I posted this earlier - but I guess I did not)

I have no problem with those others being punished more severely. Fine by me

But can we stop with myth that this is only a college professor thing? Or that despising bigotry on any level is somehow a negative trait? I left college very conservative. but then as I grew I changed.

For one, no civilized nation should ever accept racist, homophobic or misogyny. We need to be better. Why do we have to tell blacks that they should just accept what Gruden had said? Or tell Carl Nassib to just deal with it? Shouldn't people not have to deal with that?

I am not sure if you are a white hetero male, but I know I am and I know that I have learned a lot by listening to people that have been victims of this kind of treatment. We can and must be better as a nation.

The NFL was able to run out a starting caliber QB for peacefully protesting police violence - now that is ridiculous cancel culture and that sure as heck was not from the brainwashed people on the left - rather it was from angry white right wingers who don't want to hear about how other parts of the our culture live and the issues they deal with.

Gruden losing his job is not this - it is a man who has to lead a cross segment of our society including blacks and one gay man (that we know of)
Does it make any sense at all for him or anybody like him to be in charge of a lockerroom?

Why is the negative connotation focused on trying to get rid of that kind of behavior and not the behavior itself?


Becoming “progressive” is not a sign of growing up. I have a Master’s degree and I can see that cancel culture is a weapon walking down a one way street. Gruden’s comments are not defensible, but shame on all the rest of you hypocrites who also are likely sinners of some sort. The punishment in the Gruden case is pretty stiff, but reserved for only some folks. You can wear black face and be Governor of Virginia….and there are many more examples of the one way street I am talking about.


What exactly makes me a hypocrite?

Are you saying there should never be any repercussions for any action?

Where have I defended any of those people?

And my point was that saying that liberalism is only an effect of college brainwashing is garbage and only intended to dismiss the thoughts.

So please tell me where I have defended people who have a pattern of behavior like Gruden.

Tell me where I said something that is untrue.

Do you really think that a team with black and gay members can properly be led by a person like Gruden? Do you think it is a bad thing to not have racism, homophobia and misogyny prevalent in society?

Are you "sinners" can never comment on the behavior of others?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:57 pm 
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If you took up arms in open rebellion against the USA, you don’t get honored with a statue. Simple criteria.

I’m as liberal as they come, but I have no problem saying tearing down/canceling Washington or Lincoln is stupid and childish.

But let’s not conflate the actions of a minority of a liberals (who are themselves as minority) as speaking for all of us.

There are plenty of radical conservative viewpoints that are held by a small minority as well.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:15 pm 
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DrLecter wrote:
(thought I posted this earlier - but I guess I did not)

I have no problem with those others being punished more severely. Fine by me

But can we stop with myth that this is only a college professor thing? Or that despising bigotry on any level is somehow a negative trait? I left college very conservative. but then as I grew I changed.

For one, no civilized nation should ever accept racist, homophobic or misogyny. We need to be better. Why do we have to tell blacks that they should just accept what Gruden had said? Or tell Carl Nassib to just deal with it? Shouldn't people not have to deal with that?

I am not sure if you are a white hetero male, but I know I am and I know that I have learned a lot by listening to people that have been victims of this kind of treatment. We can and must be better as a nation.

The NFL was able to run out a starting caliber QB for peacefully protesting police violence - now that is ridiculous cancel culture and that sure as heck was not from the brainwashed people on the left - rather it was from angry white right wingers who don't want to hear about how other parts of the our culture live and the issues they deal with.

Gruden losing his job is not this - it is a man who has to lead a cross segment of our society including blacks and one gay man (that we know of)
Does it make any sense at all for him or anybody like him to be in charge of a lockerroom?

Why is the negative connotation focused on trying to get rid of that kind of behavior and not the behavior itself?


Superb post. I had forgotten about Kaepernick -- he was obviously canceled by NFL owners. However, I don't recall him getting much love from the cancel culture police.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:21 pm 
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Like I said, no one can defend Gruden’s comments. I am sure all the players on the team are angels and never said anything naughty on a football field or in a locker room.

However, if you defend cancel culture and it’s bullying nature that is meant to shut down legitimate debate, then you are just a tool.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:24 pm 
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1984phins wrote:
If you took up arms in open rebellion against the USA, you don’t get honored with a statue. Simple criteria.


I agree completely. Some things are so egregious that they shouldn't be honored. You have validated my point, then. "Canceling" in and of itself is not wrong -- it depends on the action. Everyone has their own opinions on what is so offensive that it should not be honored. I simply would like the debates to be focused on the action itself rather than generic comments like "We shouldn't destroy history."


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