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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:50 am 
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I'm one of those guys who thinks that Justin Herbert is going to be a good QB in the NFL. I think good coaching will help him be more consistent. The Dolphins know more about him that most teams do as they've been studying him for 2 years now, and really liked him last year with the hopes that he would come out in last year's draft. Sure, he has holes in his game, but as he showed in the Senior Bowl, he is very coachable.

Barry Jackson (Miami Herald) wrote:
Here’s what (Chris) Simms had to say about Herbert: “I think he’s got the best arm of any of these quarterbacks in this draft. A really gifted thrower [who] allows an offense to open up. Really good athlete, can throw with people around him and, to me, can make the most ‘wow’ throws out of anybody I’ve seen in this draft at this point…

“He might not be the quickest or the fastest to accelerate, but he’s the fastest quarterback out of all the guys when he opens up. He’s a special athlete that way. I think he has an incredibly high ceiling like Jordan Love. They can be superstar physical talents who I think can take over games. If you ask me who is the guy in this draft that maybe has a chance to be the next Patrick Mahomes, who in Year 3 of their career, you are going, ‘this guy is unbelievable,’ I think Herbert from what I’ve seen, has got superstar talent.”


And here’s what (Dan)Orlovsky had to say about the same player: “I would be scared to death to draft Justin Herbert early. My analogy with houses is this. It’s almost like real estate. Justin Herbert is the really good-built home. Looks the part. Has got a bunch of upgrades. But you can’t sell it. For some reason, it’s just sitting on the market and you can’t sell it and you walk away from seeing the home every single time and you say, ‘Something is not right with that house. I don’t know exactly what it is.’”


Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt- ... rylink=cpy


This is why I would not trade up for Tua, because Herbert is a good choice as well. While Tua is the better talent, Herbert does not come with the injury concerns. I think many teams would love to have Miami's choice of QB.

Barry Jackson (Miami Herald) wrote:
“Late in the year, though, he got it together, had some strong games, ran the football really effectively in the Rose Bowl. Beat Utah with all that defensive talent even though he had seven straight incompletions late third quarter into the fourth in that game. Still a little inconsistent.

“Senior Bowl week helped him. Senior Bowl game helped him. Remember, he outperformed Jordan Love in Mobile. At the Combine, he threw the ball well. [Same with Pro Day]. It seems like he’s thrived once he got away from that Oregon offense through the process.”

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt- ... rylink=cpy

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:35 am 
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Herbert is my favorite. However, I hope we don't trade up, for anyone. In fact, given that Jacksonville (at 9) has two first round picks and wants a QB, and San Diego (at 6) wants a QB, my dream scenario is to swap picks with Jacksonville and get their 9 and 20. At 9, there would still be one of the top four tackles, or Herbert, or an elite defensive player like Simmons or Ogudah. We could draft three offensive lineman in the first round under this scenario, and this would help whoever we ultimately go with at QB.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:09 am 
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I'm the same with Herbert as I am with Tua, but for different reasons. I want to love Tua the way some do, but I can't get around the injuries ruining his career. I want to believe Herbert has now found who he was meant to be as a quarterback but he doesn't appear to have the IT factor in most big moments.

Dan Orlovsky is the guy who ran out of the back of the end zone without realizing he did it. Chris Simms has had plenty of bonehead takes. Forgive me if I'm skeptical of their analytical abilities.

I want Jordan Love to be the guy but are there a lot of instances where a guy struggled to process in college and then became an elite guy in the NFL?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:20 am 
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FWIW, Matt Miller did a podcast yesterday saying the Tua injuries have several teams grading Herbert over him. TDN's Kyle Crabbs backed this up a bit and said that while he can't say for sure that Miami is one of these teams he believes the idea itself is legit.

Herbert seems to be a yes sir, no sir type with his coaches. On one hand I can see Flores loving that and on the other I can see him not being comfortable with that personality as a field general. Then again, Mike Vrabel went that road with Tannehill and he seems to be similar to Flores.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:01 am 
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jammer wrote:
I want Jordan Love to be the guy but are there a lot of instances where a guy struggled to process in college and then became an elite guy in the NFL?


Are there a lot of instances where the entire offense changed around a guy and he didn't miss a beat?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:19 am 
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Rich wrote:
jammer wrote:
I want Jordan Love to be the guy but are there a lot of instances where a guy struggled to process in college and then became an elite guy in the NFL?


Are there a lot of instances where the entire offense changed around a guy and he didn't miss a beat?


While I'm not saying that Love is Dan Marino in any way, Dan the Man struggled his senior year after losing his OC. He was a preseason Heisman candidate and threw a lot of interceptions under the new staff.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:22 am 
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Rich wrote:
jammer wrote:
I want Jordan Love to be the guy but are there a lot of instances where a guy struggled to process in college and then became an elite guy in the NFL?


Are there a lot of instances where the entire offense changed around a guy and he didn't miss a beat?


I don't disagree he was dealt a bad hand. But in many of the games I watched from his awesome 2018 season he had a lot of dropped interceptions. Most of them over the middle where he isn't seeing safety or linebacker coverage. He has an issue reading the field and we have to consider when wondering what will happen when he faces NFL defenses. Not all of his picks from 2019 were 50/50 balls or dropped passes.

Justin Herbert had a whole new offense and didn't come apart at the seams. Neither did Josh Rosen at UCLA when a new OC came in.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:32 am 
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jammer wrote:
I don't disagree he was dealt a bad hand. But in many of the games I watched from his awesome 2018 season he had a lot of dropped interceptions. Most of them over the middle where he isn't seeing safety or linebacker coverage. He has an issue reading the field and we have to consider when wondering what will happen when he faces NFL defenses. Not all of his picks from 2019 were 50/50 balls or dropped passes.

Justin Herbert had a whole new offense and didn't come apart at the seams. Neither did Josh Rosen at UCLA when a new OC came in.


Good insight, Dan.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:54 am 
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Don't get me wrong, I'm with Rich on Love being the best upside guy. Physically he has it all and where I think he beats Herbert is the quickness with which he plays.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:42 am 
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Barry Jackson (Miami Herald) wrote:
And here’s what (Dan)Orlovsky had to say about the same player: “I would be scared to death to draft Justin Herbert early. My analogy with houses is this. It’s almost like real estate. Justin Herbert is the really good-built home. Looks the part. Has got a bunch of upgrades. But you can’t sell it. For some reason, it’s just sitting on the market and you can’t sell it and you walk away from seeing the home every single time and you say, ‘Something is not right with that house. I don’t know exactly what it is.’”


What the hell kind of commentary is this? If I was Herbert & saw professional analysts blast me as a player with a critique as hilariously vague & utterly pointless as Orlovsky’s comments, I’d spit out my morning coffee. The guy said nothing in 8 sentences. Just that SOMETHING about him is off.

lolwut

These dudes get paid a handsome check to articulate their points. WTF was that Dan?????

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:44 am 
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prof123 wrote:
Herbert is my favorite. However, I hope we don't trade up, for anyone. In fact, given that Jacksonville (at 9) has two first round picks and wants a QB, and San Diego (at 6) wants a QB, my dream scenario is to swap picks with Jacksonville and get their 9 and 20. At 9, there would still be one of the top four tackles, or Herbert, or an elite defensive player like Simmons or Ogudah. We could draft three offensive lineman in the first round under this scenario, and this would help whoever we ultimately go with at QB.


Beautiful scenario but it’s hard to buy into the thought of a team, even as hopelessly confused as JAX, trading a pair of 1sts for Herbert or Love. The bust of Bortles is still fresh in their minds & he was had at 3.

jammer wrote:
I want Jordan Love to be the guy but are there a lot of instances where a guy struggled to process in college and then became an elite guy in the NFL?


No. It doesn’t make a lot of logistical sense.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:01 pm 
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I want to take this opportunity to rip on Orlovsky some more because he said Miami has to and will trade up for Tua. He gave three reasons:

1. They passed on Brees in 2006
2. They traded away Tunsil and Fitzpatrick to make sure they had trade ammo to get who they want
3. They can't go into year 3 of a rebuild without a QB

Let me see if I can connect the dots here. So this front office, under a different owner/GM/coach/scouts is making sure they correct a mistake made 14 years ago by different people at a different time? That is the number 1 reason why they have to make the trade???

Tunsil was traded after they realized neither Fitz nor Rosen were getting them to any significant wins. They asked for Clowney in the deal first and then went the pick route when he said no to Miami. But Miami we're supposed to believe Tunsil was dealt with the idea of landing Tua? Fitzpatrick gave Miami an ultimatum basically, but again he was dealt with Tua in mind? Miami wanted a complete rebuild with players Flores wanted, not just as much trade ammo as possible for Tua. Revisionist history seems to be baked into this.

Well they're going into Year 2 of a rebuild so why on earth do we care about having Tua on the bench? We have no idea which QBs could be availabe for trades next year or if a 2021 prospect is ready to hit the ground running behind a well built team that wisely fortified positions in 2020.

Oh, and Orlovsky will tell you that because Tua's doctor and his agent said he is fine its all systems go for his NFL career. Do these guys not realize people aren't questioning his ability to throw a football in April 2020? People are terrified of what happens when a jacked up defender crushes his mechanical hip and/or metal rods in his ankles into the earth.

Sorry, there ends the rant.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:45 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Sorry, there ends the rant.


Step outside your comfort zone & let it all out.

What does whiffing on Brees 14 offseasons ago have to do with the price of a$$ in China??? Everything this guy said is so full of holes Eastwood would be impressed.

I hate the media. Haven’t watched much TV in several years.

Jammer, I doubt they were in a purposeful chronological order. Dude just couldn’t pin which of the 3 thoughts would kick into his head first.

jammer wrote:
They asked for Clowney in the deal first and then went the pick route when he said no to Miami.


And thankfully Clowney was so blunt about having no desire to play here. If he was quiet & just accepted his fate it probably would’ve ended bad. I feel like he’s one of the more selfishly prone type of player.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:15 am 
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Adam Schefter now saying that Miami is not as all in on Tua as the media has said and instead seem to be looking at someone else. Salguero taking a victory lap over the fact he said it a month ago. Barry Jackson chiming in that Miami really like Herbert and his skill set, but also says keep an eye on Love.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:20 am 
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jammer wrote:
Adam Schefter now saying that Miami is not as all in on Tua as the media has said and instead seem to be looking at someone else. Salguero taking a victory lap over the fact he said it a month ago. Barry Jackson chiming in that Miami really like Herbert and his skill set, but also says keep an eye on Love.


And I was saying it long before Salguero.

....yeah, good for him though.

:)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:33 am 
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For me, Herbert is doesn't have any more potential than Rosen. Similar demeanor, big and accurate arms, but both struggle to process defenses. If we drafted Herbert, he and Rosen would be BFF's.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:37 am 
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shularino wrote:
For me, Herbert is doesn't have any more potential than Rosen. Similar demeanor, big and accurate arms, but both struggle to process defenses. If we drafted Herbert, he and Rosen would be BFF's.


Maybe it’s worth drafting him after all then. After Rosen’s turbulent start to his NFL career, he needs a BFF.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:57 am 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
jammer wrote:
Adam Schefter now saying that Miami is not as all in on Tua as the media has said and instead seem to be looking at someone else. Salguero taking a victory lap over the fact he said it a month ago. Barry Jackson chiming in that Miami really like Herbert and his skill set, but also says keep an eye on Love.


And I was saying it long before Salguero.

....yeah, good for him though.

:)


Ha. Yes you have. But his victory lap isn't that Miami is avoiding Tua, it is that they really want to move up for Burrow and really like Herbert instead of the injured Tua.

If they pass on a QB altogether I will present you the Nostradamus Trophy on April 24th.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:14 am 
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jammer wrote:
If they pass on a QB altogether I will present you the Nostradamus Trophy on April 24th.


I’m definitely holding down that island on my own. I will have you rethinking the media industrial complex that force feeds opinion down your throat. I will outlast them all, and prove, in the end, that I should be the one running the show.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:57 am 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
I will have you rethinking the media industrial complex that force feeds opinion down your throat.


The same guys telling you to watch Miami trade up for Burrow or take Herbert at 5 are the same who were saying Miami was interested in Rosen a month before the draft and were very high on Christian Wilkins if available.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:04 am 
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jammer wrote:
The same guys telling you to watch Miami trade up for Burrow or take Herbert at 5 are the same who were saying Miami was interested in Rosen a month before the draft and were very high on Christian Wilkins if available.


Trading up for Burrow is more likely than taking Tua at 5. Cincy is in a fantastic position to load up even more to prepare for the following draft. Sunshine is absolutely in play for them. I can see them being enticed out of that 1st overall. Miami’s inside the top 5 as well so they wouldn’t have to give up a lot more extra value say if they were sitting in the middle range outside the 10.

Miami is absolutely in play for the 1st pick.

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Last edited by AFCMiamiEast on Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:05 am 
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jammer wrote:
The same guys telling you to watch Miami trade up for Burrow or take Herbert at 5 are the same who were saying Miami was interested in Rosen a month before the draft and were very high on Christian Wilkins if available.


Trading up for Burrow is more likely than taking Tua at 5. Cincy is in a fantastic position to load up even more to prepare for the following draft. Sunshine is absolutely in play for them. I can see them being enticed out of that 1st overall. Miami’s inside the top 5 as well so they wouldn’t have to give up a lot more extra value say if they were sitting in the middle range outside the 10.

Miami is absolutely in play for the 1st pick.

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