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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:37 am 
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For the Dolphins to get a crack at Lawrence we would have to lose Fitzpatrick or he regresses, and our free agent pick ups flop. That would be a depressing situation. We could also trade the farm to move up for Lawrence next year, but no one will be stupid to give him up as he will be the best QB to come into the draft since Andrew Luck.

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Miami Dolphins: The Dolphins have been heavily linked to Tua Tagovailoa over the last year-plus, since the time Tua was far and away the class’ No. 1 prospect. The Dolphins certainly looked capable of tanking last year, but things didn’t go quite as expected with Tua getting injured and Fitzmagic leading the upstart Dolphins to a few too many wins. Still, the likely landing spot for Tua appears to be to the Dolphins with the fifth pick of the upcoming draft, but even if they do pull the trigger on the pick, the Dolphins still appear to be a couple of years away, despite some flashy free agent signings this offseason. Last year they ranked dead last in WAR generated from the defense and their offensive line, and they finished third-to-last in skill position WAR ranking. Selecting Tua and having another down year could give them multiple swings at the game’s most important position, a process that PFF has been advocating for quite some time.

Other teams: New England Patriots, Carolina Panthers, Chicago Bears, Jacksonville Jaguars, LA Chargers

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:29 am 
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Miami couldn't Tank for Tua. Now they have a roster that can get to .500 and they're going to lose for Lawrence?

For what its worth, Lawrence and his supply of weapons were beaten by Burrow and his weapons.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:49 am 
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jammer wrote:
Miami couldn't Tank for Tua. Now they have a roster that can get to .500 and they're going to lose for Lawrence?
Miami sucks at everything. They cannot even lose when they need to lose. Just like 2011.

jammer wrote:
For what its worth, Lawrence and his supply of weapons were beaten by Burrow and his weapons.

In basically a home game for LSU. LSU was the better team last yr. LSU's D was much better than Clemson's D. I'd take Lawrence over Burrow 10 out of 10 times and twice on Sunday ( Whatever that means )


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:10 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Miami couldn't Tank for Tua. Now they have a roster that can get to .500 and they're going to lose for Lawrence?

For what its worth, Lawrence and his supply of weapons were beaten by Burrow and his weapons.


The schedule is much tougher than last year. Even with an improved roster I can see this team going 5-11.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:18 pm 
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I can see 4 division wins. That should be enough to snowball into a few others.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:25 pm 
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It was good the Phins didn't tank........they wouldn't have gotten all the FAs. My pick for worst '20 team is the Cincinnati Bengals. They finished 2-14 with a team with mid range talent. They played in the worst conference in the AFC, but only had the one division win against the Browns. If I were them, I take Miami's 3 first rounders, keep their incompetent coach, score Lawrence in the '21 draft and bring in a new staff.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:30 pm 
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shularino wrote:
My pick for worst '20 team is the Cincinnati Bengals. They finished 2-14 with a team with mid range talent. They played in the worst conference in the AFC, but only had the one division win against the Browns. If I were them, I take Miami's 3 first rounders, keep their incompetent coach, score Lawrence in the '21 draft and bring in a new staff.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:16 am 
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Dphins4me wrote:
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In basically a home game for LSU. LSU was the better team last yr. LSU's D was much better than Clemson's D. I'd take Lawrence over Burrow 10 out of 10 times and twice on Sunday ( Whatever that means )


Yes, I would take Lawrence hand's down over Burrow without much of a thought about it. LSU's defense was smothering, and Burrow had a great year. That team was seasoned with many wins over other Top 10 teams and came into the game with a heck of a lot of confidence.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:19 am 
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Guys, Clemson had the number 1 defense in the country in both points and yards allowed. LSU didn't rank top 25 in either. Burrow threw for 5 TDs, Lawrence threw 0 and ran for 1.

Clemson's running back, Travis Etienne, was in the same discussion as any top RB this year and had 19 TDs. LSU didn't have to simply pin their ears back and rush the passer.

Burrow and Lawrence were on an equal playing field with support, pressure and proper coaching. One looked rattled, the other looked calm as he had in every other challenging game.

Look beyond just this one game. Lawrence didn't have an eye popping performance against Ohio State two weeks earlier.

No doubt in my mind that Lawrence is blessed with the skill set every QB dreams of. Burrow plays with a confidence and demeanor that is very rare. The two things you hear about him consistently are that he'll outwork everyone and commands the locker room. Even his old OSU teammates say he had their respect despite other QBs starting. The NFL requires a different breed. There are plenty of athletic, big armed QBs who can thrive in college but prove mediocre in the pros. I'm not saying Lawrence won't succeed, but getting Burrow this year isn't exactly some afterthought consolation prize.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:47 pm 
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Ok but Burrow was a 5 yr senior playing in a home game. The other, a sophomore who won the NC against Alabama the year before and looked like he was playing against a pop warner squad. Did Lawrence play poorly against LSU? Yes, especially once they fell behind and we’re forced to throw it. Clearly Burrow was the better QB in that game. But you can’t boil it all down to one performance either. I think both QBs are great, but Lawrence will have the better collegiate career, and in less time, once he enters the NFL draft, presumably next year. I feel confident saying that Lawrence is hands down a better prospect that Burrows.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:42 pm 
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If the Miami suits and ties decided to roll on Rosen throughout 2019, which would’ve been a more than reasonable approach, Lawrence would’ve been in play for Miami more so than any other 31 teams. As much as everyone likes Fitzpatrick, I do too, honestly, what was the point?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:57 pm 
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Flores wanted to win now, while Grier was tanking for the top pick. That’s why Fitz was the starting QB.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:10 pm 
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Phin wrote:
Flores wanted to win now, while Grier was tanking for the top pick. That’s why Fitz was the starting QB.


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The idea that starting Rosen for the season would’ve been equivalent to tanking is BS.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:41 pm 
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Phin wrote:
Ok but Burrow was a 5 yr senior playing in a home game. The other, a sophomore who won the NC against Alabama the year before and looked like he was playing against a pop warner squad. Did Lawrence play poorly against LSU? Yes, especially once they fell behind and we’re forced to throw it. Clearly Burrow was the better QB in that game. But you can’t boil it all down to one performance either. I think both QBs are great, but Lawrence will have the better collegiate career, and in less time, once he enters the NFL draft, presumably next year. I feel confident saying that Lawrence is hands down a better prospect that Burrows.


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You're the second member to say it was a home game. How so? Different stadium, not all LSU fans. I'm guessing they stayed in a hotel the night before same as the Clemson guys. Hopefully I don't sound like a prick, but it just seems that its a way to excuse the results. Burrow played like that against ranked teams on their home turf all year long.

And yes, Lawrence may end up having more total numbers than Burrow but Burrow put nearly as many TDs in one season as Lawrence did in two. And Burrow was showing signs of elite play at the end of last year. Just took the right coaches to unlock his style of play, just like Greg Roman has with Jackson, Kaepernick and Taylor.

I'm not discounting what Lawrence did in 2018. He had a good season this year albeit with a lot of bumps in the road beyond just the college playoffs. Skill wise he is superior to Burrow, but that doesn't mean Burrow can't be a better NFL QB.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:42 pm 
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FWIW, both Matt Cannata and Matt Infante are saying today that Miami is going to make a push to get the 1st pick.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:43 pm 
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Home game or not. Who cares. Don’t forget to Phin’s point, Lawrence was playing high school ball less than 3 years ago. I don’t put stock into the home/away audience though. That’s never an excuse for any athlete.

jammer wrote:
FWIW, both Matt Cannata and Matt Infante are saying today that Miami is going to make a push to get the 1st pick.


Well, if they say so.

jammer wrote:
Skill wise he is superior to Burrow, but that doesn't mean Burrow can't be a better NFL QB.


True.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:44 pm 
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jammer wrote:
You're the second member to say it was a home game. How so? Different stadium, not all LSU fans.
Are you seriously trying to sell that? The game was appox an hour+ drive from LSU campus.

jammer wrote:
I'm guessing they stayed in a hotel the night before same as the Clemson guys. Hopefully I don't sound like a prick, but it just seems that its a way to excuse the results. Burrow played like that against ranked teams on their home turf all year long.
Burrow played great, with his top OL, three first round pick Wr and a top Rd.

jammer wrote:
And yes, Lawrence may end up having more total numbers than Burrow but Burrow put nearly as many TDs in one season as Lawrence did in two. And Burrow was showing signs of elite play at the end of last year. Just took the right coaches to unlock his style of play, just like Greg Roman has with Jackson, Kaepernick and Taylor.
Even with what you posted. It took four yrs and a transfer to him to get there. Why?

jammer wrote:
I'm not discounting what Lawrence did in 2018. He had a good season this year albeit with a lot of bumps in the road beyond just the college playoffs. Skill wise he is superior to Burrow, but that doesn't mean Burrow can't be a better NFL QB.
Time will always tell, but Lawrence arrived and produced. Burrow failed, transferred, took a yr and then did something.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:38 am 
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jammer wrote:
FWIW, both Matt Cannata and Matt Infante are saying today that Miami is going to make a push to get the 1st pick.


That's interesting and I'd hate to see it happen. They want the best QB in this draft and he would be it (because of Tua's injuries). You would hear a loud groan, but let's be honest. While the price is steep, I've see teams trade up and seem to get out from under the cost.

One thing I will say is that no one knows what the Dolphins are going to do right now, so, I am wondering why Cannata/Infante both think the Dolphins will trade up. No one in the Dolphins org is going to leak that if it were true unless it's a smoke screen to make teams think they do not want Tua.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:55 am 
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Except Miami, in that scenario, wouldn’t be the trade up partner for teams looking to land Tua/Burrow. It would be someone ahead of us. Not sure how that benefits Miami. Unless we are hoping a top non-qb prospect, projected in the top five, is their target and they’re hoping to have them drop to us by forcing Tua/Burrows, and possibly Herbert to go in the top four.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:02 am 
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Dphins4me wrote:
jammer wrote:
You're the second member to say it was a home game. How so? Different stadium, not all LSU fans.
Are you seriously trying to sell that? The game was appox an hour+ drive from LSU campus.


Yes I am. These guys get on airplanes every other week heading to hostile stadiums. The national championship game is played in front of plenty of indifferent fans mixed with supporters of both teams. Similar crowd sizes every week at many of their games. Lawrence wasn't facing some tough environment and Burrow wasn't moving around on some field he's seen 100 times.

Are we trying to excuse what Burrow accomplished over Lawrence because we don't like the idea of trading a lot of picks for a guy who doesn't look like he was built in a QB factory? Again, the supporting cast argument holds no weight in this discussion. Lawrence was playing on a loaded team too. I'd say the same thing for Tua, Fields or Hurts.

Tom Brady had to battle Drew Henson each year to start. Carson Palmer sucked until his 5th year Heisman season. Joe Flacco had to leave Pitt to go to Delaware just to start. Tony Romo and Jimmy G played Division 1 AA, Carson Wentz played in the FCS. Every successful NFL QB wasn't a two year star at the highest college level. Burrow not beating out JT Barrett and Dwayne Haskins because they have better skill sets for a college offense is irrelevant in my opinion.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:07 am 
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Big Dave wrote:
jammer wrote:
FWIW, both Matt Cannata and Matt Infante are saying today that Miami is going to make a push to get the 1st pick.


One thing I will say is that no one knows what the Dolphins are going to do right now, so, I am wondering why Cannata/Infante both think the Dolphins will trade up.


Whoever their mutual source is says Miami is going to try trading up to 1 for Burrow or sitting tight at 5. They don't believe they have to trade up for Tua anymore.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:59 am 
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Dave Hyde makes a good point when talking about trading up for Burrows. He puts it like this.....would you trade Minkah Fitzpatrick & Laremy Tunsil to get the QB you want? Another way of putting it.....would you trade your first round pick + Laremy Tunsil to get the QB you want. Ofcourse, the Phins received 2 first round picks for the Tunsil trade.

Burrows senior year was the most impressive I have seen from a college QB. Plus he played in a pro style offense and was amazing against top level teams. I am big proponent of going after him. Three first rounders is high, especially when you're sitting at 5, but it's unlikely Miami will hit on all 3 of these picks. It's more likely only 1 maybe 2 of the first rounders will live up to their draft ranking.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:10 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Yes I am. These guys get on airplanes every other week heading to hostile stadiums. The national championship game is played in front of plenty of indifferent fans mixed with supporters of both teams. Similar crowd sizes every week at many of their games. Lawrence wasn't facing some tough environment and Burrow wasn't moving around on some field he's seen 100 times..
So you are saying playing one hour away from your home stadium was not even the slightest advantage? Wow, if you are.

jammer wrote:
Are we trying to excuse what Burrow accomplished over Lawrence because we don't like the idea of trading a lot of picks for a guy who doesn't look like he was built in a QB factory?
I'm saying do not knock Lawrence accomplishment because Burrow played in a more friendly environment with an overall better team with more talent.

jammer wrote:
Again, the supporting cast argument holds no weight in this discussion. Lawrence was playing on a loaded team too. I'd say the same thing for Tua, Fields or Hurts.
Clemson was good & loaded. LSU was more loaded. LSU was the best team in college football. Top to bottom on both O & D. Clemson's D had some weak spots.

Just as Clemson was far more loaded the yr prior against Bama/Tua.

jammer wrote:
Tom Brady had to battle Drew Henson each year to start.
Brady was a 6th Rd. pick as well. Not following your point.

jammer wrote:
Carson Palmer sucked until his 5th year Heisman season. Joe Flacco had to leave Pitt to go to Delaware just to start. Tony Romo and Jimmy G played Division 1 AA, Carson Wentz played in the FCS. Every successful NFL QB wasn't a two year star at the highest college level. Burrow not beating out JT Barrett and Dwayne Haskins because they have better skill sets for a college offense is irrelevant in my opinion.
Of course not. Outside Palmer/Wentz non were top 3 picks. Palmer was not the greatest NFL Qb either. He did alright, but nobody will ever confuse him for Elway. Wentz is struggling trying to be able to take that step up to greatness.

I agree that they do not have to play at a D1 school. They played and produced. Romo was a UDFA and Jimmy G was a 2nd Rd. pick. Bringing in low rd picks & UDFA to support your opinion is missing the mark for myself.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:40 pm 
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Dphins4me wrote:
jammer wrote:
Yes I am. These guys get on airplanes every other week heading to hostile stadiums. The national championship game is played in front of plenty of indifferent fans mixed with supporters of both teams. Similar crowd sizes every week at many of their games. Lawrence wasn't facing some tough environment and Burrow wasn't moving around on some field he's seen 100 times..
So you are saying playing one hour away from your home stadium was not even the slightest advantage? Wow, if you are.


I am. Sorry it blows your mind. Please stop pretending he played on a high school field he is used to with family and friends screaming down his rivals. Dome stadium, equal unfamiliarity with environment...how far do we want to take this? There is no quantifiable advantage. If Burrow is afraid of plane rides and can't get more than three hours sleep outside of Louisiana I'll retract my position. He didn't stroll into Baton Rouge with a homemade meal from mom two hours before the game.

Clemson and LSU are equally loaded. I'm not even going to pretend otherwise. The numbers back it up. Clemson was the best defense in both point and yards. They ranked 5th in yards on offense and 2nd in points. LSU was 1st in offense and not even Top 25 in either defensive category. If you want to say Clemson just pounced on inferior competition to drive up numbers then perhaps my point is made in that Burrow decimated the best competition and made it look easy.

The QB comparisons are easy. It takes a smart coach to unlock a talent the rest of us are generally blind to. Burrow was fortunate to have that in his junior and senior year rather than waiting until the NFL. Coaches saw what he was capable of and how he commanded an offense without using a simple spread and sprinting ability. Instead of being a big surprise like Brady, Romo or others I mentioned he'll enter the NFL expected to be like them because he carries similar traits.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:45 pm 
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jammer wrote:
I am. Sorry it blows your mind. Please stop pretending he played on a high school field he is used to with family and friends screaming down his rivals. Dome stadium, equal unfamiliarity with environment...how far do we want to take this? There is no quantifiable advantage. If Burrow is afraid of plane rides and can't get more than three hours sleep outside of Louisiana I'll retract my position.
No such thing as home field advantage now? Interesting. Is it simply a myth? Besides the week off, why do NFL teams consider it so important?

jammer wrote:
He didn't stroll into Baton Rouge with a homemade meal from mom two hours before the game.
Not the point of home cook meal. He had a very favorable fan base playing one hour away in his home state. To say fans do not help, would be saying playing in Seattle is easy with their noise makers. Fans bring energy and that helps.

Quote:
"At least 62 percent of the seats at the Mercedes-Benz Superdome in New Orleans are expected to be filled by LSU fans, according to a projection from Vivid Seats. And that number is likely to increase as game time gets closer.

Clemson has a loyal fan base that travels well, but LSU’s campus is less than 90 minutes away from the Superdome. It’s a nearly nine-hour road trip from Clemson to New Orleans."




jammer wrote:
Clemson and LSU are equally loaded. I'm not even going to pretend otherwise. The numbers back it up. Clemson was the best defense in both point and yards. They ranked 5th in yards on offense and 2nd in points. LSU was 1st in offense and not even Top 25 in either defensive category. If you want to say Clemson just pounced on inferior competition to drive up numbers then perhaps my point is made in that Burrow decimated the best competition and made it look easy.
There is a prime example of playing the stats while knowing its misleading indicator to the truth. Like the saying. Figures do not lie, but liars figure.

What powerhouse football team did Clemson last yr before the final four? There was even talk they did not deserve to be in the final four because of lack of quality teams they played against. Now you are trying to sell LSU & Clemson were both equality loaded because of Clemson's stats.

jammer wrote:
The QB comparisons are easy. It takes a smart coach to unlock a talent the rest of us are generally blind to. Burrow was fortunate to have that in his junior and senior year rather than waiting until the NFL. Coaches saw what he was capable of and how he commanded an offense without using a simple spread and sprinting ability. Instead of being a big surprise like Brady, Romo or others I mentioned he'll enter the NFL expected to be like them because he carries similar traits.
He had a couple of games at the end of his junior yr. Lets not act like he laid this fantastic ground work that yr. Joe Brady came in with his friendly QB passing game coordinator and Burrow exploded. Maybe he simply "Popped" this yr. and will continue. Maybe he "popped" this yr and will return to being the guy that did little to nothing for four yrs of college. Time will tell.

The huge difference is Burrow will come into the NFL with expectations, unlike either of them. Fans are going to be expecting 50 TDs his rookie yr. Sounds stupid, but they will.

I'm not against Burrow, just not tripping over my tongue wanting him.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:50 pm 
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I’m not even sure why we are arguing who is better, Burrow or Lawrence? None of it matters until they suit up in an NFL uniform and prove themselves. All I’m trying to say is that Lawrence stands to be a better ‘prospect’ next year, than Burrow this year. That’s not taking anything from Burrow or saying he won’t succeed in the NFL. I’d take Burrow this year over a “maybe Lawrence” next year. Fact is, I think we have a much better chance of trading up to #1 in 2020 than 2021.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:17 am 
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I wonder what the Vegas odds makers due with games played close to home.

Clemson plays in the ACC not a tough football conference. If they have a high ranked D do you consider their competition?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:27 am 
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Phin wrote:
Fact is, I think we have a much better chance of trading up to #1 in 2020 than 2021.
I believe that is a majority opinion. Now the reason why is obvious. If Burrow is such a great prospect, why would any team trade the chance to get him.


My question if Miami were Cincy & Cincy were Miami. Who would take a trade for Burrow and settle for Tua or another prospect? If so, then why would you trade up for Burrow? Miami is not sitting here loaded with talent.


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Phin wrote:
I’m not even sure why we are arguing who is better, Burrow or Lawrence? None of it matters until they suit up in an NFL uniform and prove themselves. All I’m trying to say is that Lawrence stands to be a better ‘prospect’ next year, than Burrow this year. That’s not taking anything from Burrow or saying he won’t succeed in the NFL. I’d take Burrow this year over a “maybe Lawrence” next year. Fact is, I think we have a much better chance of trading up to #1 in 2020 than 2021.


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Totally agree, Neal. No one has had a more outstanding year than Burrow did this year as far as I am concerned. Not only did he put up some great stats, but he didn't play a creampie schedule either and beat several top 10 teams. Lawrence's schedule was much softer this year because the ACC had a down year. Still, when you line them up side by side, you don't see a lot of flaws in Lawrence game, but you can question Burrow's arm strength and the fact that he only did it for a year and a few games. Lawrence has been outstanding since he stepped on the field. Intelligence? Well, they both are smart.

But as you said, no one knows for any certainty who will be the better NFL quarterback until they actually play in the NFL; otherwise, why are some overall #1 picks busts?


Armando Salguero (Miami Herald) wrote:
There is not one NFL scout or personnel man I know who believes someone other than Joe Burrow will be the No. 1 overall selection in this draft.

Some believe Chase Young remains the best prospect in the draft but even they believe Burrow will be selected No. 1 overall because, well, he’s a quarterback. Burrow’s actually the most complete and most productive quarterback prospect of the 2020 draft class.

Maybe he’ll be good in the NFL.

And maybe and he won’t.

Nobody knows with any actual certainty. Because Joe Burrow also comes with holes (average strength arm) and questions (one-year wonder?) that any team has to grapple with.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:45 am 
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Dphins4me wrote:
Phin wrote:
Fact is, I think we have a much better chance of trading up to #1 in 2020 than 2021.
I believe that is a majority opinion. Now the reason why is obvious. If Burrow is such a great prospect, why would any team trade the chance to get him.


My question if Miami were Cincy & Cincy were Miami. Who would take a trade for Burrow and settle for Tua or another prospect? If so, then why would you trade up for Burrow? Miami is not sitting here loaded with talent.

That’s a great question and one that I was asking myself. Of course everything I’m about to say is obviously conjecture, but so is all predraft discussion for the most part.
Miami made a lot of moves this offseason to improve now. They also have a lot of draft capital over the next two years to get better. That means that we are ready to draft someone now without wasting too many years to build a team around them (hopefully). I also believe the front office is confident they have the right head coach. Cincinnati on the other hand is not in the same position and likely to have another tough year next year. I think they are going to be tempted to build draft capital this and next year to get better. The likelihood is that they can pass on a QB this year and still land Lawrence next year.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:31 am 
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Dphins4me wrote:
No such thing as home field advantage now? Interesting. Is it simply a myth? Besides the week off, why do NFL teams consider it so important?

playing one hour away in his home state. To say fans do not help, would be saying playing in Seattle is easy with their noise makers. Fans bring energy and that helps.

Quote:
"At least 62 percent of the seats at the Mercedes-Benz Superdome in New Orleans are expected to be filled by LSU fans, according to a projection from Vivid Seats. And that number is likely to increase as game time gets closer.

Clemson has a loyal fan base that travels well, but LSU’s campus is less than 90 minutes away from the Superdome. It’s a nearly nine-hour road trip from Clemson to New Orleans."




There is a prime example of playing the stats while knowing its misleading indicator to the truth. Like the saying. Figures do not lie, but liars figure.

What powerhouse football team did Clemson last yr before the final four? There was even talk they did not deserve to be in the final four because of lack of quality teams they played against. Now you are trying to sell LSU & Clemson were both equality loaded because of Clemson's stats.

He had a couple of games at the end of his junior yr. Lets not act like he laid this fantastic ground work that yr. Joe Brady came in with his friendly QB passing game coordinator and Burrow exploded. Maybe he simply "Popped" this yr. and will continue. Maybe he "popped" this yr and will return to being the guy that did little to nothing for four yrs of college. Time will tell.

The huge difference is Burrow will come into the NFL with expectations, unlike either of them. Fans are going to be expecting 50 TDs his rookie yr. Sounds stupid, but they will.

I'm not against Burrow, just not tripping over my tongue wanting him.


There is such a thing as home field advantage when you play on your home field. They didn't play in Baton Rouge. How many times has LSU played in New Orleans? They familiar with the stadium, field, locker room, etc.? As for the percentages, did they poll each person going in? Most corporations and big money people pre purchase those tickets beforehand. Impossible to know the spread. It isn't like a Seattle's "HOME FIELD" where the entire place is behind the home team.

What are we using to describe loaded for the teams? Both had elite QBs, RBs, WRs, CBs, LBs, and coaches. Clemson has more talented sophomores so you can't use draftable guys to help the argument. Same Clemson team had no problem taking down the 2nd ranked Ohio State team that features some really powerhouse names. The stats back up what we expected - two loaded teams met up in the Championship. One cruised to a victory and the other struggled. I'm looking at schedules and I wouldn't argue Clemson had a cupcake schedule. Its impressive they were the best defense in the country.

I think your last comment sums this debate up well. I understand your position on trading up for Burrow and I don't think its wrong. But to say he simply took out the best defense in the country and the QB Golden Boy because he had a more loaded team and some form of home field advantage seems like an excuse. He outplayed Lawrence and didn't look rattled, same as he did against his other quality opponents.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:54 pm 
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jammer wrote:
There is such a thing as home field advantage when you play on your home field. They didn't play in Baton Rouge. How many times has LSU played in New Orleans? They familiar with the stadium, field, locker room, etc.?
Home field is about the fans, not the actual facilities, its about the favorable crowd.

jammer wrote:
As for the percentages, did they poll each person going in? Most corporations and big money people pre purchase those tickets beforehand. Impossible to know the spread. It isn't like a Seattle's "HOME FIELD" where the entire place is behind the home team.
You would have to ask them. Just posted what they reported.


jammer wrote:
What are we using to describe loaded for the teams? Both had elite QBs, RBs, WRs, CBs, LBs, and coaches. Clemson has more talented sophomores so you can't use draftable guys to help the argument. Same Clemson team had no problem taking down the 2nd ranked Ohio State team that features some really powerhouse names. The stats back up what we expected - two loaded teams met up in the Championship. One cruised to a victory and the other struggled. I'm looking at schedules and I wouldn't argue Clemson had a cupcake schedule. Its impressive they were the best defense in the country.
Wife is a Clemson grad, so I have some reason to follow Clemson. I gave them a snowball chance in that game. Everything had to go perfect. LSU was simply the more tested and better team. Everyone knew that. LSU was 5.5 favorite. Speaks volume in the betting world.


jammer wrote:
I think your last comment sums this debate up well. I understand your position on trading up for Burrow and I don't think its wrong. But to say he simply took out the best defense in the country and the QB Golden Boy because he had a more loaded team and some form of home field advantage seems like an excuse. He outplayed Lawrence and didn't look rattled, same as he did against his other quality opponents.
First we simply disagree.

Burrow did not look rattled, but again. Had majority of the fans being LSU. More easy to overcome with support for the home fan base ( Not that LSU ever had to overcome in that game )

Best Defense in the country? Oh please give me a break and be honest with your assessment. Outside this discussion you would never call Clemson's D the best on the country. Easy to be statistically the best D when you are play also rans week in & week out. No one ever called Clemson the best D in the country last yr. 2018? Maybe.

So a 23 yr old 5th yr senior in his teams home state, outplayed a 20 yr old Soph and you sound surprised? WoW


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:10 am 
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Dphins4me wrote:
Best Defense in the country? Oh please give me a break and be honest with your assessment. Outside this discussion you would never call Clemson's D the best on the country. Easy to be statistically the best D when you are play also rans week in & week out. No one ever called Clemson the best D in the country last yr. 2018? Maybe.

So a 23 yr old 5th yr senior in his teams home state, outplayed a 20 yr old Soph and you sound surprised? WoW


Same 20 year old won the MVP the previous year against Alabama's 4th ranked defense and had relatively the same offensive talent surrounding him. Bama's defense had just as many "big draftable names" as LSU's current squad. And Clemson's 2018 defense, which included three big names drafted, gave up 3 more points per game and ranked 4th in yards. Same after-ran opponents. So it doesn't seem that I'm using 2019 numbers to paint a false picture. Clemson's defense held Ohio State's 4th ranked offense to an underwhelming performance just two weeks earlier.

So is it some fluky win versus an overrated opponent because it was within state lines, or did the best player in college football lift his team to victory like he had nearly every other game throughout the season? The same opponent that shut down the 2nd ranked team in the country two weeks prior and that neutered the pundits' favorite QB prospect 12 months prior on a national stage?

The 23 year old 5th year senior outplayed every opponent, inside and outside Louisiana, all season long. Even did so on Alabama's home turf which nearly no one had accomplished in the last few years.

I'm not seeing a heck of a lot of evidence supporting that Burrow and his teammates had some major advantages.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:52 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Same 20 year old won the MVP the previous year against Alabama's 4th ranked defense and had relatively the same offensive talent surrounding him. Bama's defense had just as many "big draftable names" as LSU's current squad. And Clemson's 2018 defense, which included three big names drafted, gave up 3 more points per game and ranked 4th in yards. Same after-ran opponents. So it doesn't seem that I'm using 2019 numbers to paint a false picture. Clemson's defense held Ohio State's 4th ranked offense to an underwhelming performance just two weeks earlier.
With youth comes inconsistency. Just look at the beginning of the yr with Lawrence. Many, some probably here started talking about him not being as good as we thought. How soon we forget.

jammer wrote:
So is it some fluky win versus an overrated opponent because it was within state lines, or did the best player in college football lift his team to victory like he had nearly every other game throughout the season? The same opponent that shut down the 2nd ranked team in the country two weeks prior and that neutered the pundits' favorite QB prospect 12 months prior on a national stage?
No he did not lift his team, it was the best team in college football. Top talent every where. Just do not dismiss the advantages he had, like you are. Just like tragedies, some time stuff simply lines. I still would take Tua at No. 1. Simply a better prospect, this is not a knock on Burrow other than he was a mid to late Rd. pick this time last yr.

jammer wrote:
The 23 year old 5th year senior outplayed every opponent, inside and outside Louisiana, all season long. Even did so on Alabama's home turf which nearly no one had accomplished in the last few years.
He had a great yr. His only yr out of five. Which is why he is a one yr wonder. He would be better served being the pick he was last yr, not the pick he will be this yr. He better be special, because fans are going to expect what they watched last yr. He will not have 5-10 sec to throw the ball in the NFL on a regular basis.

jammer wrote:
I'm not seeing a heck of a lot of evidence supporting that Burrow and his teammates had some major advantages.
There is a difference between not seeing and not wanting to see.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:10 pm 
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Dphins4me wrote:
jammer wrote:
I'm not seeing a heck of a lot of evidence supporting that Burrow and his teammates had some major advantages.
There is a difference between not seeing and not wanting to see.


Show me The Way of The Vision, wise grasshopper.

I want to see!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:12 pm 
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Premise #1 - QB A is the better prospect because he beat QB B one time in a game between completely equal teams on a turf with zero advantages and all things were equal. (FALSE)

Premise #2 - QB B is better than QB A and he only lost the game because QB A was on a stacked team with home field advantage. (FALSE)

Reality - Lawrence did not play as well as Burrow in the one game they faced off against each other. Burrow definitely played on a better team and had a friendlier crowd. That doesn’t completely account for him performing better. Clearly he had the better game. However, this isn’t tennis or boxing. It’s not one player matched against the other. These are teams with 11 men on the field, facing off against 11 other men. The two offenses don’t even play each other. So to compare these qbs like we are comparing apples to apples is an exercise in futility.
Lawrence is the prototype QB. He has all the tools. There aren’t really any glaring holes with him. Burrow has some questions and it took 5 years for him to have that breakout season, whereas Lawrence produced year 1. However, that doesn’t mean anything until they put on the pads and starting playing in the NFL.
I just think it’s futile to try to make some qualitative statement about one or the other based off of one game.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:20 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Dphins4me wrote:
jammer wrote:
I'm not seeing a heck of a lot of evidence supporting that Burrow and his teammates had some major advantages.
There is a difference between not seeing and not wanting to see.


Show me The Way of The Vision, wise grasshopper.

I want to see!

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I'm adding nothing more to this conversation because nothing anyone else says could possibly top this. I'm hysterically laughing right now. Bravo good sir, bravo.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:33 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Show me The Way of The Vision, wise grasshopper.

No can do. There are some obstetrical that even someone as great as I cannot overcome.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:39 pm 
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Phin wrote:
Premise #1 - QB A is the better prospect because he beat QB B one time in a game between completely equal teams on a turf with zero advantages and all things were equal. (FALSE)

Premise #2 - QB B is better than QB A and he only lost the game because QB A was on a stacked team with home field advantage. (FALSE)

Reality - Lawrence did not play as well as Burrow in the one game they faced off against each other. Burrow definitely played on a better team and had a friendlier crowd. That doesn’t completely account for him performing better. Clearly he had the better game. However, this isn’t tennis or boxing. It’s not one player matched against the other. These are teams with 11 men on the field, facing off against 11 other men. The two offenses don’t even play each other. So to compare these qbs like we are comparing apples to apples is an exercise in futility.
Lawrence is the prototype QB. He has all the tools. There aren’t really any glaring holes with him. Burrow has some questions and it took 5 years for him to have that breakout season, whereas Lawrence produced year 1. However, that doesn’t mean anything until they put on the pads and starting playing in the NFL.
I just think it’s futile to try to make some qualitative statement about one or the other based off of one game.

Always gave an eye roll when people want say Brady was so & so in head to head games against Manning. They were never on the field at the same time. They never went head to head. Its so stupid to compare QB against QBs.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:39 pm 
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jammer wrote:
I'm adding nothing more to this conversation because nothing anyone else says could possibly top this. I'm hysterically laughing right now. Bravo good sir, bravo.

Should I apologize for not kowtowing to your opinion?


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