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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:48 am 
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Had to sound off about this matter. In last night’s game, Lions/Packers, the one ref in the backfield cost the Lions the game, out and out cost them the game. Now, I know that in a game there are a handful of plays that have little to nothing to do with refs that cost teams games, I get it, but I rather it be a drop pass in the end zone, a fumble, a pic 6, than a ref’s call, especially bumbling, stumbling, incompetent call(s) like last nights. And I say this and I’m a Packers fan, happy as heck when I got up this morning and saw they came back to win, although at the time had no idea how they won until I watched the DVR recording.

But this feeling of helpless frustration in me, and I’m sure most fans, has been building up for quite a while now, and this year its reached ridiculous levels, thus my need to come here, and get this off my chest. It’s costing teams’ games! And it can cost whole coaching staffs their jobs! I know baseball umpiring can be similarly questioned but given the length of the season I don’t see the final impact on a level playing field this NFL thing can. I also know that NBA refereeing isn’t of the highest quality either, but again they have 82 games, so other than in the post season incompetent refs don’t have the same impact as the NFL. I don’t watch NHL or soccer, so I don’t know about those leagues, but either way, this is the NFL, America’s game, and the incompetence there carries a lot more weight and it is now reached blatant levels.

For me it comes down to this. NFL football is the highest level without question of America’s version of football. A zillion colleges play it, Canada plays it, for all I know other countries may have leagues, no idea, but in a league with the highest level of player talent, highest level of required coaching preparation, highest level of player performance, I mean some of the things these players today can do exceed unbelievability some times, the league should have the absolute best refereeing possible but they fall way short of the rest of the league standard. For this kind of league, the epitome of American football, to have the sorriest refereeing is .....is....abominable? Is there a stronger word for the disgusting nature of it?

I’m sure today and tomorrow and on and on, there will be a lot of talk about it but it is all a waste of time and it never improves, it actually gets worse the more they legislate it to remove incompetence. It just does not work that way. I mean, does anybody understand the PI challenge? What about roughing the passer? After the defender fights through 350 lbs blockers, chipping TEs, backs cutting you at the knees, you are supposed to all of a sudden, in a split second, tone your aggressiveness down and approach the QB with care and concern and just ask him to pretty please fall down? Even former QBs in the booth, Aikaman, Fouts, they are disgusted by these calls.

In this case last night, even the network ref in the booth danced around the issue when trying to explain what was the ref seeing who called the two hands to the face by a Lions DE, two calls that gave the Packers first downs on the critical winning drive. In the end, he could have saved us a lot of time and just out and out admitted the ref blew both calls as it was his only conclusion.

It won’t get any better, and it’s a shame. Outside of the Devil Team and of course our own tanking specialists, there’s real competition in the rest of the league. Every week, there are a bunch of close, exciting games, exciting on their own merits but in almost every game there are multiple calls by the refs that show blatantly poor judgement. Changing the rules won’t fix this, the league has to do a better job at hiring and training refs, putting in stringent evaluation criteria and get rid of the garbage they have, which is plenty.

There! I think I feel better.....but Thursday is just around the corner. Oh well.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:20 am 
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This is going to be an endless topic until the year the NFL collapses. The game is too complex to expect a clean game. Way too many opportunities for failure or misinterpretation of a certain call. That’s not me defending them.

I still feel the worst effect of bad reffing in sports is in MMA or Boxing. Some of these guys spend months training their asses off every day to fight one guy. An objectively bad scorecard can take a soul out of a fighter.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:25 am 
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carreramia wrote:
Even former QBs in the booth, Aikaman, Fouts, they are disgusted by these calls.


Maybe because it disrespects the OG passers of the game who made a fraction of the salary & whose records are being made obsolete because of the new vanilla rules?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:49 am 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
This is going to be an endless topic until the year the NFL collapses. The game is too complex to expect a clean game. Way too many opportunities for failure or misinterpretation of a certain call. That’s not me defending them.

I still feel the worst effect of bad reffing in sports is in MMA or Boxing. Some of these guys spend months training their asses off every day to fight one guy. An objectively bad scorecard can take a soul out of a fighter.


All true but I am out here hoping the game lasts and see its way out of this....I’ve been watching for almost 60 years and although we can spend hours debating the changes that were necessary refereeing did not tarnish the game, did not impede it’s progress to the blockbuster sport it became, and although now it seems improbable to put the fix in I think it’s doable. It’s a sport for crying out loud, not brain surgery or putting humans in Mars.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:34 am 
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The reffing has gotten to NBA levels of practically fixing games. Business isnt booming if the Packers, Pat's, and other superstar QBs arent protected. Cam called the league out on this years ago. The refs also have too much darn pride and arent admitting they are wrong when it is so obvious during reviews.

Time to go the Ross Perrot jail guards theory with these refs. Start training in a whole new class of refs, and fire all of the current ones. Then all these new ones are coming in on the same playing field. Ffs, even the reffing crew needs a rebuild in the nfl

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:42 am 
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I like the college rule for 15 yards on PI.
I also think those defensive holding calls away from the play should not result in an automatic first down unless the 5 yards is enough to.
These calls are not going to end so I think you have to make them less game altering.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:08 am 
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Here's a bad call in our game. It's ridiculous to call offensive pass interference on this play. The Dolphins do not have a large window in order to win, and calls like this kill us. One of the responses to this video was that the refs were in on the tank (lol).




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:51 am 
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FINesse wrote:
I like the college rule for 15 yards on PI.
I also think those defensive holding calls away from the play should not result in an automatic first down unless the 5 yards is enough to.
These calls are not going to end so I think you have to make them less game altering.


If a lot of defensive penalties are automatic first downs, maybe some offensive penalties (holding) should be automatic 4th downs.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:40 am 
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FINesse wrote:
I like the college rule for 15 yards on PI.
Completely agree, outside an obvious I'm committing this to prevent a catch. This 40 yd penalty for hand fighting is asinine.

FINesse wrote:
I also think those defensive holding calls away from the play should not result in an automatic first down unless the 5 yards is enough to.
Agree. Nothing worse than 3rd and 20 and they get a first down for a little holding.

FINesse wrote:
These calls are not going to end so I think you have to make them less game altering.

I think any call should be open to coaches challenge. The hands to the face was a game changing call.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:42 am 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
This is going to be an endless topic until the year the NFL collapses. The game is too complex to expect a clean game. Way too many opportunities for failure or misinterpretation of a certain call. That’s not me defending them.

I still feel the worst effect of bad reffing in sports is in MMA or Boxing. Some of these guys spend months training their asses off every day to fight one guy. An objectively bad scorecard can take a soul out of a fighter.

Not enough officials for players that are faster, quicker than yesteryear. Plus to many camera angles to provide different looks.

My biggest complaint is why are officials expect to be perfect, when players, coaches and everyone else make mistakes? When the rest become perfect, then we should be able to expect officials to be perfect.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:41 am 
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Dphins4me wrote:
My biggest complaint is why are officials expect to be perfect, when players, coaches and everyone else make mistakes? When the rest become perfect, then we should be able to expect officials to be perfect.


The outrage is rooted in them being non-players that sometimes almost single handedly in one moment change the result of an entire game for everybody else.

Scrutiny usually leads to better results. Apparently not this season.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:26 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
The outrage is rooted in them being non-players that sometimes almost single handedly in one moment change the result of an entire game for everybody else.

Scrutiny usually leads to better results. Apparently not this season.

Officials will never win with slow motion replay. If only they could ref games like that.

Here is a great idea for all the fans who think refs should be perfect.. Run a play, then go to review and look for a penalty. That will make game perfect and so much more fun.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:29 pm 
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Dphins4me wrote:

My biggest complaint is why are officials expect to be perfect, when players, coaches and everyone else make mistakes? When the rest become perfect, then we should be able to expect officials to be perfect.


I for one don’t expect anyone’s perfection but the number, a staggering number every weekend, of blown calls, poor judgement and inconsistency in interpretation, has reached ridiculous levels, to the degree that the refs and their decisions are costing games and will cost people their jobs. That is beyond logical reason and the league should not stand by and do nothing. Officials in games, name the sport, were always supposed to be seen not heard...these guys have become through their incompetency, or perhaps by design, as big a part of the game as the football itself.

A number of good ideas have been put forth in this thread, and who are we? Plain ol’ fans....why this billion dollar league is incapable of rational thought regarding this mess is almost as dumbfounding as the refs’ performance.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:12 pm 
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carreramia wrote:
I for one don’t expect anyone’s perfection but the number, a staggering number every weekend, of blown calls, poor judgement and inconsistency in interpretation, has reached ridiculous levels, to the degree that the refs and their decisions are costing games and will cost people their jobs. That is beyond logical reason and the league should not stand by and do nothing. Officials in games, name the sport, were always supposed to be seen not heard...these guys have become through their incompetency, or perhaps by design, as big a part of the game as the football itself.

A number of good ideas have been put forth in this thread, and who are we? Plain ol’ fans....why this billion dollar league is incapable of rational thought regarding this mess is almost as dumbfounding as the refs’ performance.
Is there a sport where an official watches multiple players and always gets every call correct? The answer is no.

People need to stop being such whining as byotches and understand. Officials are not robots and will make mistakes. Blame the NFL for not putting more refs out there to reduce the number of players one official has to watch. Plus no one and I repeat no one can win with camera providing slow motion replay.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:14 pm 
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Dphins4me wrote:
Is there a sport where an official watches multiple players and always gets every call correct? The answer is no.

People need to stop being such whining as byotches and understand. Officials are not robots and will make mistakes. Blame the NFL for not putting more refs out there to reduce the number of players one official has to watch. Plus no one and I repeat no one can win with camera providing slow motion replay.


No one is whining and bitching...and we understand all too well, at least the majority. If you watch the games you’ll see how ridiculous it’s become, it’s out and out incompetent and many plays we know right off the bat, in real time, not after slow motion replay, that a violation was committed or one wasn’t....


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:20 pm 
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carreramia wrote:
No one is whining and bitching...
Are you not reading the internet? Saints fans actually sued the NFL because of a missed call that went against them. Of course, they were totally 100% alright with all the missed calls that went for them.

carreramia wrote:
and we understand all too well, at least the majority. If you watch the games you’ll see how ridiculous it’s become, it’s out and out incompetent and many plays we know right off the bat, in real time, not after slow motion replay, that a violation was committed or one wasn’t....

100% complete fan BS. Majority of the time the TV audience is unaware of anything until the flag comes out and replay stats showing them the call.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:29 am 
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Dphins4me wrote:
Are you not reading the internet? Saints fans actually sued the NFL because of a missed call that went against them. Of course, they were totally 100% alright with all the missed calls that went for them.


I understand how fans of a specific region or team can go on and on about ref injustice, but this problem is league wide. It’s not made up. The internet I read include various web sites of NFL interest, ie., SI, PFT, and newspaper sites like NY Post and the South FL ones. The problem is all there. Same thing for the cable sports channels that cover the game.

Dphins4me wrote:
100% complete fan BS. Majority of the time the TV audience is unaware of anything until the flag comes out and replay stats showing them the call.


I am not sure how you can claim what the majority of the TV audience knows or doesn’t know. And I’ll leave it at that.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:00 am 
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carreramia wrote:
I understand how fans of a specific region or team can go on and on about ref injustice, but this problem is league wide. It’s not made up. The internet I read include various web sites of NFL interest, ie., SI, PFT, and newspaper sites like NY Post and the South FL ones. The problem is all there. Same thing for the cable sports channels that cover the game.

Its not the officials that are dropping the ball. Its the NFL for not paying for more officials to reduce what they have to watch.



carreramia wrote:
I am not sure how you can claim what the majority of the TV audience knows or doesn’t know. And I’ll leave it at that.
Not sure how? Wow. Okay, I tell ya.

There are 22 men on the field and the TV does not show all 22 at the same time, but more importantly its physically impossible for the human brain to focus on two different items, much less 22 different items.

That is why there are seven officials on the field, plus why we have missed calls. Humans are physically limited to focusing on one thing at a time. So when the ref is looking at the left guard, he may view out of the corner of his eyes the LDE hand up in the area of LT helmet and believe he sees hands to the face.

People that constantly complain about the officials have never worked it. Its harder than it looks, even for the professionals. Its why baseball officials are typically the most outstanding officials. They have one base to watch at one time, so their focus is always and only on that bases.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:57 am 
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Dphins4me wrote:
carreramia wrote:
I am not sure how you can claim what the majority of the TV audience knows or doesn’t know. And I’ll leave it at that.
Not sure how? Wow. Okay, I tell ya.

There are 22 men on the field and the TV does not show all 22 at the same time, but more importantly its physically impossible for the human brain to focus on two different items, much less 22 different items.

That is why there are seven officials on the field, plus why we have missed calls. Humans are physically limited to focusing on one thing at a time. So when the ref is looking at the left guard, he may view out of the corner of his eyes the LDE hand up in the area of LT helmet and believe he sees hands to the face.

People that constantly complain about the officials have never worked it. Its harder than it looks, even for the professionals. Its why baseball officials are typically the most outstanding officials. They have one base to watch at one time, so their focus is always and only on that bases.


The OL & DBs are responsible for the vast majority of penalties so the refs on field tend to be more focused on those guys.

You aren’t enlightening anybody on some unforeseen ”complicated” situation here. What you are saying has been seen by the NFL years ago...which is why there are a hell of a lot more than just 7 refs on the field. They have dozens of more assets viewing it from booths above the 50 yard line & many others in New York.

They did this because it was a problem. It wasn’t just a crowd pleaser move.

Chill out with the Captain Education shhh. You act like everyone is too dumb to see the forest thru the trees but you. Ain’t that complicated. People have a right to complain about this.

Missed calls will always be an issue in a sport like this, but there is without a doubt room for improvement.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:42 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:

The OL & DBs are responsible for the vast majority of penalties so the refs on field tend to be more focused on those guys.
The refs are assigned certain position to monitor.

AFCMiamiEast wrote:
You aren’t enlightening anybody on some unforeseen ”complicated” situation here. What you are saying has been seen by the NFL years ago...which is why there are a hell of a lot more than just 7 refs on the field. They have dozens of more assets viewing it from booths above the 50 yard line & many others in New York.
If they had that many assets, then there would never be a missed call.

AFCMiamiEast wrote:
They did this because it was a problem. It wasn’t just a crowd pleaser move.
When it comes to officiating, the NFL is a knee jerk league.

AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Chill out with the Captain Education shhh. You act like everyone is too dumb to see the forest thru the trees but you.
Do not confuse infer with imply. Infer means how you take what I state. Imply means how I meant it. Yes, Captain Education is making sure you have some type of a grasp on the subject matter. Sorry, for not having a bouncing red ball for you.


AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Ain’t that complicated. People have a right to complain about this.
Sure, people do sit around whining about the one call that went against them, while ignoring the non calls/calls that went for them. Its what whiner do. Winner overcome and win, losers sit around whining about it and not taking responsibility for why they lost.

The Saints/Fans whined about that one call. Yet ignored they blew a 13 point lead. Missed personal fouls not called. Had the ball in OT, yet threw a Int. Those are things off the top of my head, but yet it was that one non-call that cost them the game. However, what did we get to hear about all offseason. One missed PI not called and a rules change to accommodate the whiners.

AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Missed calls will always be an issue in a sport like this, but there is without a doubt room for improvement.
Without reviewing each and every play, and slowing the game down to a 7 hours perfect game ( Maybe ). There is not room for improvement, because the camera misses nothing, then human eye always will. Its not a matter of incompetence, its a matter of human ability. So either accept the imperfections of humans or live the life of being nothing more than a whining complainer, which will fit you right in with most.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:45 pm 
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Shoulda been a lawyer. At least get paid to speak your blue in the face, circular bull****.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:30 am 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Shoulda been a lawyer. At least get paid to speak your blue in the face, circular bull****.
Oh, do I need to apologize for providing a fact based discussion? When one cannot fabricate a coherent argument, the insults come out.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:32 am 
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Dphins4me wrote:
AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Shoulda been a lawyer. At least get paid to speak your blue in the face, circular bull****.
Oh, do I need to apologize for providing a fact based discussion? When one cannot fabricate a coherent argument, the insults come out.


That was laughable. Where are your facts? I see mostly opinions, including my favorite one where you somehow decided that you knew what the TV audience sees or does not see. Or the one with you choosing to condemn the fans (calling them whiners and byotches) by insisting how dumb they are for wanting perfection, because according to all knowledgeable you they do not understand how difficult the job of refereeing is.

Those are your "facts", ignoring mounting evidence contrary to your position, evidence that by the way has brought the league to make it the no. 1 topic of discussion in league meetings going on as we speak.

But I understand you. You know you have no way out of this so you continue a losing cause. Give it a break.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:45 am 
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carreramia wrote:

That was laughable. Where are your facts? I see mostly opinions, including my favorite one where you somehow decided that you knew what the TV audience sees or does not see. Or the one with you choosing to condemn the fans (calling them whiners and byotches) by insisting how dumb they are for wanting perfection, because according to all knowledgeable you they do not understand how difficult the job of refereeing is.
I see someone else is lashing out at me for not kowtowing to their opinion.

Nothing I can do if you get lost on what the facts were. Not rehashing them, since you failed to comprehend them the first time.

Whiners are byotches. Whiners complain about the refs and not about their own failures that cost them the game.

The Saints were capable of doing many things in the game, but failed at their job. Instead they hang their hat on someone else that failed at his job.


carreramia wrote:
Those are your "facts", ignoring mounting evidence contrary to your position, evidence that by the way has brought the league to make it the no. 1 topic of discussion in league meetings going on as we speak.
Of course the league is going to meet on it. They cater to the fans and prefer to put oil on the squeaky wheel, instead of fixing the issue like full time refs, more on field refs.

Its why we get delay after delay and watch multiple angle views looking for a quarter of an inch to get the correct call and still people do not always agree with the call. Networks now have to have a rules analyst to explain the rules to the fans, because they are acknowledging the ignorance of the fans to the complexity of all their rules. Even with that no one still knows when a catch happens.


carreramia wrote:
But I understand you. You know you have no way out of this so you continue a losing cause. Give it a break.
WOW. My heart breaks with that one. sniffle, sniffle. Losing cause in an internet discussion. :))


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