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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:17 am 
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ESPN's Todd McShay Mock 2.0. I like the selection, but I question Murray's heart to be more in baseball and this is a money thing. What guarantee does anyone have that he doesn't change his mind down the road? Smart money would be to rebuild the interior of our OL and DL this year in the early rounds, and invest in QB later in the draft and realliy go for it in 2020.


Todd McShay wrote:
13. Miami Dolphins - Kyler Murray, QB, Oklahoma*

Yes, the risk is apparent -- Murray is undersized at 5-foot-10 and still hasn't decided on his baseball career. But he has an electric arm and some of the best athleticism I've seen at the position in years. New offensive coordinator Chad O'Shea would have a real talent to develop at quarterback if Miami moves on from the Ryan Tannehill era.


http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2019/insid ... raft-order


Todd McShay wrote:
1. Arizona Cardinals
Nick Bosa, DE, Ohio State*

With Kliff Kingsbury and Vance Joseph looking to bring back the 3-4 defensive scheme to the desert, look no further than the Chargers' use of Joey Bosa for a glance at how his younger brother would fit with the Cardinals. Expect Nick to play defensive end but also get some snaps standing up on the edge. Either way, Bosa will collect offensive tackles using his length, speed and power. He could get double-digit sacks as a rookie.
play

2. San Francisco 49ers
Josh Allen, OLB, Kentucky

The Niners really want an edge rusher after only DeForest Buckner cracked six sacks for them in 2018 (Buckner had 12). Allen blew up offensive linemen all season en route to 17 sacks and 21.5 tackles for loss for the Wildcats. With his big 6-foot-5, 260-pound frame, Allen could line up as a defensive end in the 49ers' 4-3 scheme if he tacks on some more weight.


3. New York Jets
Rashan Gary, DE, Michigan*

Henry Anderson is a free agent, and Leonard Williams has one year left on his contract, so defensive end is a need for Gang Green. Gary has good size (6-foot-5, 283 pounds) and athleticism with an explosive closing burst.


4. Oakland Raiders
Quinnen Williams, DT, Alabama*

Williams just makes sense for the Raiders. Oakland hobbled to just 13 total sacks in 2018 after trading away Khalil Mack. As one of the two most talented prospects in this class, Williams would make an immediate impact with his quick first step and penchant for dropping guys in the backfield. Let's start the rebuild with an elite prospect.


5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Jonah Williams, OT, Alabama*

Williams is a plug-and-play prospect who would fill the void left by free agent Donovan Smith. He can handle speed rushes off the edge with quick feet and would help buy some time for Jameis Winston. However, I'd look for Tampa Bay to trade back and simply take the best offensive lineman available, with the likes of Jacksonville and Miami looking to move up to grab a QB.


6. New York Giants
Dwayne Haskins, QB, Ohio State*

Imagine this big-armed signal-caller uncorking shots to Odell Beckham Jr. or finding Saquon Barkley in the flat. Sound fun? The one-year Buckeyes starter shows good touch and anticipation, and could be Big Blue's quarterback of the future. It makes perfect sense here, as long as another quarterback-hungry team doesn't hop the Giants via a trade.


7. Jacksonville Jaguars
Jeffery Simmons, DT, Mississippi State*

This is a tough call if the Jags don't trade up for Haskins, and it would be their second straight year of using a first-round pick on a defensive tackle (Taven Bryan). Simmons would be a good addition if Malik Jackson and Marcell Dareus are cut. There's no denying Simmons' leverage at the line and his range, and he'd fit nicely in Jacksonville's one-gap-heavy scheme. Tom Coughlin and Doug Marrone would have to be OK with his character history.


8. Detroit Lions
Greedy Williams, CB, LSU*

Detroit needs an edge rusher with Ezekiel Ansah likely headed out of town, and the Lions would love to add a solid tight end, but Williams is the best need-value match at No. 8. The Lions tied for second-fewest interceptions in the league with seven, and the tall LSU corner has the closing speed to bait quarterbacks and then pounce on their mistakes. Motor City hasn't gone cornerback in the first round since Terry Fair in 1998.


9. Buffalo Bills
Jawaan Taylor, OT, Florida*

The Bills need to protect Josh Allen, and Taylor is mobile and powerful with good size. He can ride faster rushers past the QB with his quickness, allowing Allen time to find a receiver deep (yeah, Buffalo needs one of those too) or take off. With Dion Dawkins at left tackle and the majority of Taylor's experience coming on the right side, the Florida alum would replace Jordan Mills at right tackle.


10. Denver Broncos
Deandre Baker, CB, Georgia

Denver could trade up for a quarterback or take the dive here for Kyler Murray or Drew Lock, but this secondary is hurting as well. Aqib Talib is long gone, and Chris Harris Jr. fractured his fibula in December. What's more, Bradley Roby is a free agent. Baker is the most instinctive corner in the class.


11. Cincinnati Bengals
Cody Ford, OT, Oklahoma*

Devin White is a potential selection here, too. But right tackle is a glaring hole, and Ford is a big, nasty finisher. He's overpowering at the point of attack and can control defenders in setting up the Joe Mixon run game. Plus, he comes with the versatility to play either right tackle or right guard at the next level.


12. Green Bay Packers
Devin White, ILB, LSU*

Green Bay would probably want an edge rusher here, but the value is just off the charts for White. I envision him becoming the future leader of the defense as a three-down rangy backer who moves with explosiveness. And with the Saints' pick on the back end of the round, the Packers can still get their pass-rusher.


13. Miami Dolphins
Kyler Murray, QB, Oklahoma*

Yes, the risk is apparent -- Murray is undersized at 5-foot-10 and still hasn't decided on his baseball career. But he has an electric arm and some of the best athleticism I've seen at the position in years. New offensive coordinator Chad O'Shea would have a real talent to develop at quarterback if Miami moves on from the Ryan Tannehill era.


14. Atlanta Falcons
Ed Oliver, DT, Houston*

If Atlanta is able to lock up free agent Grady Jarrett, Dexter Lawrence could also be an option. But even as Oliver slides down draft boards, his ability to be disruptive and burst out of his stance is fun to watch. The Falcons were in the bottom five in run defense last season.


15. Washington Redskins
Marquise Brown, WR, Oklahoma*

Washington really wants a receiver, and Brown is an absolute burner. Despite being 5-foot-9, he can win vertically and has shown the ability to pluck the ball away from his body even as he rips along in fifth gear. The Redskins will keep an eye on quarterback Alex Smith's recovery, but Brown makes sense here for a team that needs a spark on offense.


16. Carolina Panthers
Clelin Ferrell, DE, Clemson*

The Panthers didn't get to quarterbacks in 2018, and although they could address it in free agency, there is a hole at defensive end. Ferrell shows high-end physical tools and quick hands, which helped put him in the top 10 in the nation in both sacks and tackles for loss in 2018.


17. Cleveland Browns
Christian Wilkins, DT, Clemson

Sure, the Browns have some other areas of need, but this value is too good to pass up, especially with Trevon Coley and Carl Davis headed toward free agency. Wilkins is one of the top 10-12 players in the draft class. He is scheme-versatile, and Cleveland would love his high awareness and motor in the middle of that defensive line.


18. Minnesota Vikings
Montez Sweat, DE, Mississippi State

With the top three offensive linemen off the board -- reaching for Ole Miss' Greg Little is a possibility but doubtful -- Minnesota turns to defensive end here and grabs Sweat. Even though the Vikings have Danielle Hunter and Everson Griffen (who is 31) off the edge, you can never have enough pass-rushers. Sweat impressed at the Senior Bowl and has some great takeoff quickness.


19. Tennessee Titans
T.J. Hockenson, TE, Iowa*

Delanie Walker is 34 and was injured last season, so the addition of Hockenson would bring stability to the position. He can block and is a real pass-catching weapon. I think he's the best tight end in the class, and Marcus Mariota loves to target his tight ends.


20. Pittsburgh Steelers
Devin Bush, LB, Michigan*

There's a void in the Steelers' linebacker corps without Ryan Shazier. Bush, an athletic every-down backer, has the instincts to play Shazier's middle linebacker spot. With Bud Dupree and T.J. Watt also in the mix, this unit could be pretty dominant.


21. Seattle Seahawks
Jachai Polite, DE/OLB, Florida*

The Seahawks have a decent linebacker stable, but they could use an edge rusher. Polite recorded 11 sacks for the Gators last season, showing speed and slipperiness coming around the corner.


22. Baltimore Ravens
D.K. Metcalf, WR, Ole Miss*

The Ravens definitely upgraded their receiving a bit this season, but they still lack a real game-changer. Metcalf missed a chunk of time this season with a neck injury, but he's a big, vertical threat. He'd give Lamar Jackson a reliable option, especially in the red zone.


23. Houston Texans
Joejuan Williams, CB, Vanderbilt*

Man, the more tape I watch, the more I like Williams. He's a long press corner with some strong ball skills. After Houston allowed an eye-popping 62 sacks of their franchise quarterback Deshaun Watson in 2018, offensive tackle might be a heavier lean here, but with the top three already gone, the Texans opt to replace Kareem Jackson instead.


24. Oakland Raiders (from Chicago Bears)
A.J. Brown, WR, Ole Miss*

Metcalf's teammate would fit nicely with Jon Gruden's West Coast offense. Brown is a big slot receiver who can create mismatches. He has a wide catch radius and can produce yards after the catch. With Amari Cooper out of town, this team is looking for someone, anyone, for Derek Carr (or whoever is under center) to target.


25. Philadelphia Eagles
Dexter Lawrence, DT, Clemson*

It's no secret that the Eagles want a cornerback, but this is some really, really good value. Put Lawrence next to Fletcher Cox and let those two plug the middle of a line that was in the bottom third in rush defense this season.


26. Indianapolis Colts
Trayvon Mullen, CB, Clemson*

Indy could use a receiver, but the secondary is a bigger need. Mullen, a long and lean corner, had four interceptions over the past two seasons with the Tigers and would help shore up the Colts' middle-of-the-road pass defense.


27. Oakland Raiders (from Dallas Cowboys)
Josh Jacobs, RB, Alabama*

The final first-round pick for Gruden's draft goes to a running back. An explosive back who runs angry through the hole, Jacobs would give Oakland a revamped run game with Marshawn Lynch coming up on age 33 and hitting free agency. With well south of 300 career touches for the Crimson Tide, Jacobs is light on the wear-and-tear.


28. Los Angeles Chargers
Jerry Tillery, DT, Notre Dame

No change from Mock 1.0 here. After being pushed around by the Patriots in the playoffs, the Chargers will look to address defensive tackle, as they have some linemen entering free agency. Tillery can press against the run and occasionally flash as a pass-rusher. A combination of Joey Bosa, Melvin Ingram and Tillery would be daunting to opposing offenses. Also, don't be shocked to see the Bolts think quarterback with another one of their early picks as they look to the future.


29. Kansas City Chiefs
Byron Murphy, CB, Washington*

The Chiefs were ever so close to going to the Super Bowl in Year 1 of Patrick Mahomes driving the offense. But if they want to make that jump in the 2019 season, they desperately need to fix the secondary. Murphy hauled in seven picks in two seasons with the Huskies and would be an instant upgrade for Kansas City. And looking ahead to Day 2, I think K.C. could go running back if the opportunity to get Bryce Love or Damien Harris presents itself.


30. Green Bay Packers (from New Orleans Saints)
Oshane Ximines, DE, Old Dominion

Clay Matthews and Muhammad Wilkerson are both free agents, and Ximines would give the Pack a rusher off the edge. He stood out at the Senior Bowl and plays with power. He piled on 12 sacks and 18.5 tackles for loss at ODU this season. Ximines would be the first Old Dominion draft pick ever.


31. Los Angeles Rams
Irv Smith Jr., TE, Alabama*

Super Bowl stinker aside, this offense is outstanding, and the addition of a matchup piece like Smith would just give Jared Goff and Sean McVay one more weapon. He has speed and athleticism. But there are also a lot of holes on defense, so the Rams might look to add to the secondary.


32. New England Patriots
Gerald Willis III, DT, Miami (FL)

Trey Flowers, Malcom Brown and Danny Shelton will go to free agency, so the champs will likely address defensive line this offseason. Willis has quick hands and lots of power at the point of contact. If the Patriots opt to go another way, they could look for an heir to Tom Brady or another tight end (Noah Fant?).

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:25 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:10 am 
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Here's the thing - if Murray is the next Vick and committed to football then someone will take him top 10. Vick was only 2 inches taller I believe.

I really want to like Murray to Miami but I just can't right now. I'm trying to change my mind as the process goes but I have too many concerns right now.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:38 am 
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jammer wrote:
Here's the thing - if Murray is the next Vick and committed to football then someone will take him top 10. Vick was only 2 inches taller I believe.

I really want to like Murray to Miami but I just can't right now. I'm trying to change my mind as the process goes but I have too many concerns right now.


If we had the overall pick in the draft, we would be smart to draft the best QB. Period. Should we not do this at 13 if we can convince ourselves that the QB is going to be stellar? I'm like everyone else who goes back and forth over Murray. I would be all for finding a way to draft Haskins, but I was much more convinced with Baker Mayfield last year than with Murray this year. Add in the baseball thing and something within me says "don't touch". I was telling people back in the day that Russell Wilson was going to be special, but it was because I saw him develop for 3 years at NC State. It'll be interesting how this all plays out, but people that know Grier say that Murray doesn't check off all of Grier's franchise QB boxes.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:54 am 
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Big Dave wrote:
If we had the overall pick in the draft, we would be smart to draft the best QB. Period. Should we not do this at 13 if we can convince ourselves that the QB is going to be stellar? I'm like everyone else who goes back and forth over Murray. I would be all for finding a way to draft Haskins, but I was much more convinced with Baker Mayfield last year than with Murray this year. Add in the baseball thing and something within me says "don't touch". I was telling people back in the day that Russell Wilson was going to be special, but it was because I saw him develop for 3 years at NC State. It'll be interesting how this all plays out, but people that know Grier say that Murray doesn't check off all of Grier's franchise QB boxes.


Good post Dave and it really drives it home using the 1st overall pick example. If Miami had the 1st overall pick, or even a top 5 pick, this year I'd use it on one of the elite pass rushers over any of the QB options. This team isn't a piece or two away so get the BPA. Even Haskins comes with some question marks that make you wonder if he'd alter a franchise.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:19 am 
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I simply cannot convince myself to support drafting a 5'9" QB who might prefer playing baseball for the money in the first round.

Even if he LOVED football more than money, his size still concerns me. People bring up Russell Wilson and Doug Flutie. These are anomalies and neither of those players was taken in the first round.

Another concern for me is that he only has one season of performance under his belt.

I just can't justify taking this player in round 1.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:34 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:37 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
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I second this!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:44 pm 
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McShay's whole 1st rd, only 2 offensive linemen taken? As for Murray, please......we do not have the OL he would need


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:07 am 
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I understand everyone’s concerns about Murray. I’m from Oklahoma and have seen him play in person. He is small but his throws are crisp and the kid can sling it. I personally wouldn’t mind if Miami drafted him, can’t really say why. Miami needs a QB, might as well start the search in 2019. If it doesn’t pan out, do it again in 2020. Either way we still need a QB. I’m tired of Miami passing on QB’s just to watch the one we pass on do extremely well. Matt Ryan comes to mind.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:00 am 
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Relive1972 wrote:
McShay's whole 1st rd, only 2 offensive linemen taken? As for Murray, please......we do not have the OL he would need


the stuck in the mud Dolphins simply can't bypass this guy if he's there at 13...even that number sounds like our lucky number. For crying out loud man, the Fins world has been a disaster for years all of it due to the absence of a QB. That is all boards like these have yapped about.

And it's not like the Fins haven't tried it your way already. They have drafted everything else but...and what do they have to show for it? Jake Long. Harris. FItzpatrick. Parker. Tunsil. James. Jordan. No more. You are not going to build an oline in one draft anyway but if you are going to have a pourous one, who better to have back there? He's isn't the pocket statue of Tannehill back there as a sitting duck. And they don't have to throw him out there week 1. Let the new team mesh in other places, bring him in to start the 2nd half of some game, and the crowd will be abuzz.

The Fins haven't buzzed us fans now for years.....we need buzz!!!

Look, the Fins are in for several years of a rebuild, secure the QB now and in 2020 again if you have the chance. The NFL ways has made that the no. 1 need. People need to move on from the size hangup, that's an old school cliché...coaches and systems and rules and specially gifted players like Murray have made that a non factor.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:39 am 
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Uh huh, Murray enters the NFL draft, Miami selects him 13th overall........Murray thinks to himself, a rebuilding team, in the same division as the Patriots, the worst OL in the NFL, screw this, I'm going to play baseball!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:59 am 
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carreramia wrote:
People need to move on from the size hangup, that's an old school cliché...coaches and systems and rules and specially gifted players like Murray have made that a non factor.


Just because your wife pretends size doesn’t matter doesn’t mean it doesn’t (whoa, lotta negatives) in pro football. You act so enlightened. You talk about cliches. I’ll talk cliches too. Give me examples of a Murray being a SUCCESSFUL NFL QB with the exception of cliche examples like Wilson, who is THE exception in today’s game.

Hell to the no on Murray. Rebuild the team for our guy in 2020.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:11 pm 
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Murray takes a look at Podunk, Nowhere's single A town with one McDonald's and one Waffle House...to 4 hr bus trips to fields with no lockerooms... Box lunches with stale baloney sandwiches...can't hit the curve...batting a cool .175 off 18 yr olds.....and all of a sudden realizes playing in South Beach ...in the NFL with $1000 road per diems...a bunch of honey roadies....and says to himself.."self!! What were u thinking!? And makes a beeline for sunny Miami


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:21 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
carreramia wrote:
People need to move on from the size hangup, that's an old school cliché...coaches and systems and rules and specially gifted players like Murray have made that a non factor.


Just because your wife pretends size doesn’t matter doesn’t mean it doesn’t (whoa, lotta negatives) in pro football. You act so enlightened. You talk about cliches. I’ll talk cliches too. Give me examples of a Murray being a SUCCESSFUL NFL QB with the exception of cliche examples like Wilson, who is THE exception in today’s game.

Hell to the no on Murray. Rebuild the team for our guy in 2020.


Ur taking this much too personal...lighten up..pros whose jobs it is to assess these situations can not afford to be stuck in cliches and outdated taboos like u...Murray would be a top 5 pick if it weren't for this baseball thing


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Nothing I said was personal. At all. Just ragging on you brotha.

You can call it taboo. I’ll call it stats, years of evidence, and a more than reasonable observation. I asked you to back up your comments with names man, all you did was repeat what you already said.

The “experts” get it wrong more often than not.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:38 pm 
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I think as more and more passes are designed as throws outside the pocket, QB height becomes less important.

However, I think the NFL is still a league where an unconventional QB pick like Murray in the 1st round gets a GM fired if it doesn't work out, but a flier on a player like that in Rds 2 or 3 won't.

With Murray, I'm a lot less worried about his size then him playing CF in the California League while Drew Lock and Daniel Jones are studying film with coaches and working with their WRs.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:23 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
You can call it taboo. I’ll call it stats, years of evidence, and a more than reasonable observation. I asked you to back up your comments with names man, all you did was repeat what you already said.

The “experts” get it wrong more often than not.



....and the non-experts a lot more.

The definition of insanity comes to mind when you say "years of evidence" and attach "more than reasonable observation" to it.

Look, cookie cutter evidence hasn't gotten us anywhere, I recall plenty of 6' 5" QB's failing...heck I think we wasted 7 years with one here, can't recall his name now.

And what names do you want? Just pick from the NFL trend and whatever number of new coaches taking the college game here....exclusively shotgun, those darn RPOs, not much reading defenses because the pace of the offense forces a static defense and the play calling coach upstairs reads that and he's in your ear for the first 15 secs of play clock telling you your reads....not much for the QB to do but let his athletic ability take over. Murray has tons of it.

What's not reasonable about that?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:31 am 
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Its not just the size or the lack of full commitment to football. QB guys who's opinions I trust are saying that he isn't the dynamo people are hyping him up to be. This doesn't mean he won't be a good NFL QB, but he may not be franchise altering.

This size issue is more about durability in my opinion. I've heard the counter argument that WRs and RBs who are his size seem to handle the NFL. Well, how often do you see them playing through nagging shoulder or arm injuries because they are being hit by guys twice their size? A little too much for my liking.

Yes, any QB can get his knee nuked or break his collarbone. We can go round and round citing examples. You're taking a major gamble on a potential anomaly in this situation.

Miami is drafting 13th, not 20 something. They have a real shot to get a blue chip defender as the top 15 is littered with them. This isn't taking a 3-4 OLB like Charles Harris and hoping he can transition to a 4-3 DE.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:47 am 
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if we can agree that any pick involves risk, risk of injury yes but also risk of not delivering on its promise, then the thinking for the Dolphins, given their sordid history now extending into its third decade, is to pick the one that would give the largest potential reward, and there's no question that a QB is worth a lot more than any top dlinemen, LBs, DBs, etc. For this reason, and yes, it's very worthy of debate, if Murray is there at 13 the Fins should take him.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:44 pm 
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Murray playing for Miami.........1st down, pass is batted down....2nd down, pass is batted down again......3rd and 10, Murray tries to roll out but is swallowed up by the pass rush.....TV game analyst, "maybe Miami should have worried about their OL before selecting a small QB." Color commentator, "you're right, and people wonder why QBs don't succeed here."


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:44 pm 
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carreramia wrote:
if Murray is there at 13 the Fins should take him.


My opinion on the situation is that if Murray is worthy of the 13th pick it is unlikely he makes it out of the top 11 picks. You'll have either the Raiders, Giants, Jaguars, or Bengals pulling trigger on him. Sounds like the Broncos are going all in on Drew Lock at either 10 or a trade up.

So where the debate probably begins is whether Miami should make a move up to get him. I'd say no to that.

What I think happens is everyone passes on him until late Round 1 and Miami gears up to get either Tua Tagovailoa or Justin Herbert next year (plenty of smoke that both are highly thought of by Miami).


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:17 pm 
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My personal point of view is don't take a qb in the first round that has as many questions about him as Murray.

Granted any pick has risk but too much risk is begging for trouble..


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:14 pm 
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Relive1972 wrote:
Murray playing for Miami.........1st down, pass is batted down....2nd down, pass is batted down again......3rd and 10, Murray tries to roll out but is swallowed up by the pass rush.....TV game analyst, "maybe Miami should have worried about their OL before selecting a small QB." Color commentator, "you're right, and people wonder why QBs don't succeed here."


You obviously don't rememeber how Bob Griese, a mere couple of inches taller broke in way back in 67. The oline then was full of expansion draft players, the best receiver Howard Twilley ran a 9 flat 40...his life was in danger on every snap, he began to be compared to Fran Tarkenton. It took a couple of years but Joe Thomas found his oline with some great off-season maneuvering, in FA and a trade. I guarantee you no way he could have found a Griese via that route.

Talent like cream, will always rise. Unless you prefer to remain in the misery of the past 47 years, it behooves you to give it a chance. Given the Dolphins disastrous draft history they have absolutely nothing to lose and plenty to look forward to if they are able to draft Murray.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:56 pm 
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Nothing to look forward too if he is playing baseball.

Quote:
In the 1960s, the average offensive lineman was 6-foot-3, 251 pounds.

In the 1970s, the average offensive lineman was 6-foot-3, 255 pounds.

In 2011, the average offensive lineman is 6-foot-5, 310 pounds.


https://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-50s ... s-saints-9


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:45 pm 
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carreramia wrote:
Relive1972 wrote:
Murray playing for Miami.........1st down, pass is batted down....2nd down, pass is batted down again......3rd and 10, Murray tries to roll out but is swallowed up by the pass rush.....TV game analyst, "maybe Miami should have worried about their OL before selecting a small QB." Color commentator, "you're right, and people wonder why QBs don't succeed here."


You obviously don't rememeber how Bob Griese, a mere couple of inches taller broke in way back in 67. The oline then was full of expansion draft players, the best receiver Howard Twilley ran a 9 flat 40...his life was in danger on every snap, he began to be compared to Fran Tarkenton. It took a couple of years but Joe Thomas found his oline with some great off-season maneuvering, in FA and a trade. I guarantee you no way he could have found a Griese via that route.

Talent like cream, will always rise. Unless you prefer to remain in the misery of the past 47 years, it behooves you to give it a chance. Given the Dolphins disastrous draft history they have absolutely nothing to lose and plenty to look forward to if they are able to draft Murray.


Bro, this is not 1967....I mean geez, Griese threw what, 8 passes in SB VIII.....those times are long gone. You just made your own argument against what you want to do. You're not going to draft 250 lb guys for the OL like you could in the 60s. Those guys have to play against 330 lb DTs. The game has grown, literally, where bigger is better at almost every position. Remember the Pat White debacle? If this team is really serious about rebuilding, they concentrate on the OL this year, and select a QB next year when there are more and better choices available.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:23 pm 
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Relive1972 wrote:
Bro, this is not 1967....I mean geez, Griese threw what, 8 passes in SB VIII.....those times are long gone. You just made your own argument against what you want to do. You're not going to draft 250 lb guys for the OL like you could in the 60s. Those guys have to play against 330 lb DTs. The game has grown, literally, where bigger is better at almost every position. Remember the Pat White debacle? If this team is really serious about rebuilding, they concentrate on the OL this year, and select a QB next year when there are more and better choices available.


Of course you missed the point. If there's a QB there you take him, offensive linemen do not take priority. A quality personnel dept can find them and they don't all have to be all-pros. You can't "find" a QB of that caliber.

Besides, what are you going to do? Wait five, six years to find the starting 5 that would make you feel comfortable? If you're lucky and they turn out good by the time you get to year 4 or 5 the first guys are going FA on you cause you can't afford them.

And all this talk of finding magic in 2020. Can anyone guarantee they'll have a shot at a QB in 2020? And even so, is there a guarantee they'll be the solution? Are you willing to take that chance? Just look at the recent picks. Other than Mayfield and Mahomes today there are renewed questions for Goff and Wentz, and no one knows about Josh Allen and Josh Rosen yet. You take Murray now, have him for a year, and if there are doubts or one falls in your lap in 2020 you take another.

Oh, and for your information, the oline Murray played behind in OK had four linemen at 6' 5", one at 6' 4". I don't think they give Heismans to QBs for the most batted balls.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:23 am 
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Another concern I have with Murray is the same reason I've cooled on Drew Lock - all of the highlight throws are made without big pressure on them. Murray often throws to wide open targets too. Knock the guy all you want, but I did pick this up from Omar Kelly when trying to evaluate if a QB can transition to the NFL. Seems to be a fair measure of assessment.

I had this same concern with Baker Mayfield so its not a fatal issue, but you have to consider that he won't have the same windows in the NFL.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:08 pm 
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Murray just went all in on the NFL. I'm guessing he heard that he'll definitely be a top 15 pick this year.

You have really interesting scenarios with both the Arizona and Oakland head coaches gushing about him. They could really shake up the top of the draft by taking him and trading away their QB.

Arizona could probably deal Rosen to the Giants, get their 1st Round pick and walk away with Murray and an elite edge prospect.

Oakland probably only gets a 2nd Rounder for Carr, but they still have 2 other 1st Round picks.

This bodes well for Miami landing a top DL talent.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:21 pm 
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The only thing I didn't like about Murray was baseball.

Now that's gone.

Swing for the fence.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:31 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Another concern I have with Murray is the same reason I've cooled on Drew Lock - all of the highlight throws are made without big pressure on them. Murray often throws to wide open targets too. Knock the guy all you want, but I did pick this up from Omar Kelly when trying to evaluate if a QB can transition to the NFL. Seems to be a fair measure of assessment.

I had this same concern with Baker Mayfield so its not a fatal issue, but you have to consider that he won't have the same windows in the NFL.


Murray didn't exactly face the toughest defenses in the NCAA.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:26 pm 
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carreramia wrote:
Relive1972 wrote:
Bro, this is not 1967....I mean geez, Griese threw what, 8 passes in SB VIII.....those times are long gone. You just made your own argument against what you want to do. You're not going to draft 250 lb guys for the OL like you could in the 60s. Those guys have to play against 330 lb DTs. The game has grown, literally, where bigger is better at almost every position. Remember the Pat White debacle? If this team is really serious about rebuilding, they concentrate on the OL this year, and select a QB next year when there are more and better choices available.


Of course you missed the point. If there's a QB there you take him, offensive linemen do not take priority. A quality personnel dept can find them and they don't all have to be all-pros. You can't "find" a QB of that caliber.

Besides, what are you going to do? Wait five, six years to find the starting 5 that would make you feel comfortable? If you're lucky and they turn out good by the time you get to year 4 or 5 the first guys are going FA on you cause you can't afford them.

And all this talk of finding magic in 2020. Can anyone guarantee they'll have a shot at a QB in 2020? And even so, is there a guarantee they'll be the solution? Are you willing to take that chance? Just look at the recent picks. Other than Mayfield and Mahomes today there are renewed questions for Goff and Wentz, and no one knows about Josh Allen and Josh Rosen yet. You take Murray now, have him for a year, and if there are doubts or one falls in your lap in 2020 you take another.

Oh, and for your information, the oline Murray played behind in OK had four linemen at 6' 5", one at 6' 4". I don't think they give Heismans to QBs for the most batted balls.


Yeah, interior linemen are real easy to find, that's why we haven't had a decent one since Incognito. If we can upgrade the OL or DL with that first pick I'll take it over QB with so many questions. And I'm not buying Murray's prepared statement today about being 100% committed to football. If his heart was really into football, he would have said so a month ago.

And again you're making my point for me when talking about the size of OK's OL. Big boys who probably had no difficulty opening up passing lanes for Murray against mostly weak opponents. Coming to Miami, he's looking at an OL consisting of Tunsil, and no one else. That's going to be a lot to ask of an OL with no experience together.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:40 pm 
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Relive1972 wrote:
And again you're making my point for me when talking about the size of OK's OL. Big boys who probably had no difficulty opening up passing lanes for Murray against mostly weak opponents.


Whaaaa...???? And I’m arguing with you?! Stop wasting my time!

It doesn’t matter anymore, you get your wish, Dolphins bad luck strikes again, he’ll go top 5 now, maybe first overall....hope you enjoy your Sundays watching a long list of practice squad retreads playing QB for your Miami Dolphins. Better change your nic to Neversee72.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:48 pm 
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carreramia wrote:
Whaaaa...???? And I’m arguing with you?! Stop wasting my time!

It doesn’t matter anymore, you get your wish, Dolphins bad luck strikes again, he’ll go top 5 now, maybe first overall....hope you enjoy your Sundays watching a long list of practice squad retreads playing QB for your Miami Dolphins. Better change your nic to Neversee72.


Are you going to eat crow when Murray sucks?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:02 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
carreramia wrote:
Whaaaa...???? And I’m arguing with you?! Stop wasting my time!

It doesn’t matter anymore, you get your wish, Dolphins bad luck strikes again, he’ll go top 5 now, maybe first overall....hope you enjoy your Sundays watching a long list of practice squad retreads playing QB for your Miami Dolphins. Better change your nic to Neversee72.


Are you going to eat crow when Murray sucks?


naaahhh, no worries here as there won’t be any left after you’re done eating your share from seeing what the NFL thinks of your 5.9 tantrums.....


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:07 am 
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carreramia wrote:
AFCMiamiEast wrote:
carreramia wrote:
Whaaaa...???? And I’m arguing with you?! Stop wasting my time!

It doesn’t matter anymore, you get your wish, Dolphins bad luck strikes again, he’ll go top 5 now, maybe first overall....hope you enjoy your Sundays watching a long list of practice squad retreads playing QB for your Miami Dolphins. Better change your nic to Neversee72.


Are you going to eat crow when Murray sucks?


naaahhh, no worries here as there won’t be any left after you’re done eating your share from seeing what the NFL thinks of your 5.9 tantrums.....



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You are an odd dude.

Is your last name Murray?

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jammer wrote:
Oakland probably only gets a 2nd Rounder for Carr, but they still have 2 other 1st Round picks.


I'd give up a 2nd round pick for Carr. I love this kid. We would just have to get him to understand that he does not need to carry the offense until he understands the new system first. I think that was a lot of his problems this year the first half of the season. #JoePhilbenWasRight

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:51 am 
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Rich wrote:
jammer wrote:
Another concern I have with Murray is the same reason I've cooled on Drew Lock - all of the highlight throws are made without big pressure on them. Murray often throws to wide open targets too. Knock the guy all you want, but I did pick this up from Omar Kelly when trying to evaluate if a QB can transition to the NFL. Seems to be a fair measure of assessment.

I had this same concern with Baker Mayfield so its not a fatal issue, but you have to consider that he won't have the same windows in the NFL.


Murray didn't exactly face the toughest defenses in the NCAA.


Every time I try to get my thoughts on Murray in all of his highlights, he is not facing pressure. Still, there are times I see him change his mind quickly on a play and flick it nicely downfield. I think we are seeing in the draftworld what we see every single year about our Dolphins: the draft analysts are undervaluing the quarterback they are mocking to us. I think he goes top 10 easily due to his skillset, and we are wasting our time arguing about someone who will not be there when it is our turn to pick.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:38 am 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:

You are an odd dude.

Is your last name Murray?


I think the proper question shoulda been, will I eat crow if Murray drops out of the 1st..if that happened, yes, I would have to because then you woulda been right that size does matter. Of course, the follow up question would have then be, would you eat crow if he goes top 10 or to Miami at 13. If this happened then logic says 5.9 or not the NFL doesn’t think size matters that much anymore due to rule changes, system changes, college driven coaching philosophies but more important when theres an abundance of talent elsewhere in the package.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:05 am 
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I thought the crow eating contest was over whether Murray is an actual franchise QB to build around? Won't know that for a couple of years.

I think its a lock he's going top 10 now with his declaration and the agent he hired (also represents Kliff Kingsbury, wink wink).

Weird thing about the NFL right now is your 4 or 5 best QBs are still guys who've been in the league for over a decade. None of the young guns from 2009 or sooner have really become the "it" QB. We've seen flashes from Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Carson Wentz, etc. But then you have a whole bunch of Matt Stafford and Marcus Mariota types who can be good but don't appear to be great.

Russell Wilson may be that player. Patrick Mahomes certainly looks that way but I want to see how the league adjusts to a year of film on him. Luck and Wentz might get there if injuries don't derail them.

Just seems like it has been a long time of Brady, Manning (until a couple years ago), Rodgers, Brees and Rivers/Roethlisberger. Hoping some younger guys finally dethrone this group.


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