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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:38 pm 
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Just tweeted Chris Kouffman - Draft Analyst Tony Pauline says that Mike Tannenbaum was present to watch Justin Herbert versus Utah, and that Tannenbaum is a big Herbert fan. Herbert's family has been interviewing agents to see about leaving school early.

Matt Infante, another guy who has some good inside Dolphin info tweeted its not the first time Tannenbaum has been out to see Herbert and other members of the Dolphins brass have traveled to watch him.

Ian Wharton tweeted this week that the plan with Tannehill was to have him as a bridge guy until Miami found a young guy, but it hasn't worked due to injury.

Justin Herbert, at the college level, is a better version of what Tannehill was expected to be. Big arm, very mobile and make some nice throws. The positive - he has played big against big competition. The negative - he is somewhat inconsistent and disappears for a stretch.

Question for all of you - is this the guy Miami trades multiple picks (and maybe players) to move up to draft? I've seen a few guys say last year he would have graded below Mayfield, Darnold and Rosen.

Its early and so much can change, but its not a joke when Mikey T isn't hiding interest. It would make a ton of sense in their minds to pay Tannehill for another year and draft his replacement...but is Herbert the guy??? I'm torn.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:40 pm 
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It's going to cost a lot to get one of the Top QB's. The Raiders, Giants, Jaguars and Bucs all need a QB and most likely will be ahead of the Phins.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:40 am 
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what bothers me the most about those reports is that TennenBum somehow still figures to be in on the decision making for next season....obviously, he’s still employed, so he keeps busy, but Ross should ensure, if he has a notion of dumping this guy the minute the clock hits 0.00 on December 30th, they should have others scouting and getting info on players. The part that struck me funny is that bit about Herbert looking for an agent and that’s the Bum’s background, so hopefully he knows he’s gonna be out and is looking for his next meal ticket.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:55 am 
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carreramia wrote:
but Ross should ensure, if he has a notion of dumping this guy the minute the clock hits 0.00 on December 30th, they should have others scouting and getting info on players


Quote:
and other members of the Dolphins brass have traveled to watch him


:clap

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:42 am 
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I'm just not sure this is the guy I'm going to push all my chips in to get. Strikes me as a guy where we'll be asking 5 years from now "where is the elite performance?" I thought I read something about maturity/leadership issues and that another year in Oregon would help him.

What is funny is I was saying the same thing about Tannehill in 2011 when our old friend Phins Rock was pumping him up as a target. The argument there was spending a 1st Rounder on such a raw QB prospect. I came around when the draft season began so perhaps I'll do the same here. I recall talking about Miami trading up then too because there was a worry Cleveland would take him at 4.

The one certainty I see is that Tannehill is no longer in the long term plans. That will make plenty of fans happy.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:39 am 
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Yeah. That would be a no from me Dawg.

I’m not too sold on my quarterback of the future rolling out for us every Sunday with the name Herbert in bold font on the back of his jersey either.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:43 am 
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As a network guy I work several of the games here at NC State in the press box. That's where the scouts sit and observe the players. When we play the big teams such as Florida State, Clemson, Miami, Notre Dame there are a lot of scouts in the room. It's rare that I see a Dolphins scout in the room. Maybe they've already seen the players they are interested in somewhere else, but the Vikings and Chiefs scouts seem to be regulars at our games.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:04 pm 
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jammer wrote:
I'm just not sure this is the guy I'm going to push all my chips in to get. Strikes me as a guy where we'll be asking 5 years from now "where is the elite performance?" I thought I read something about maturity/leadership issues and that another year in Oregon would help him.

What is funny is I was saying the same thing about Tannehill in 2011 when our old friend Phins Rock was pumping him up as a target. The argument there was spending a 1st Rounder on such a raw QB prospect. I came around when the draft season began so perhaps I'll do the same here. I recall talking about Miami trading up then too because there was a worry Cleveland would take him at 4.

The one certainty I see is that Tannehill is no longer in the long term plans. That will make plenty of fans happy.


At this point, Herbert has more experience and better numbers than Tannehill did.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:43 pm 
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I just listened to Tony Pauline talking to Omar Kelly. Had some interesting comments.

Said if you had to pick a QB in this draft its probably Herbert, but that Herbert is kind of a wild card. Mentioned he is a bit of an introvert and small town guy (those were the reports, not his personal interaction with the guy). Thinks you'll have to go at least top 10 if not top 5 to get him.

Pauline said he thinks trading for Derek Carr would be a better option for Miami. I was shocked when he said that (and not just because I've been floating that on the boards). Even more, Kelly went on after and said he would trade two 1st rounders for Carr at this point as Miami's best option. That shocked me even more as I thought he'd say you need to sign Bridgewater.

Pauline mentioned others:

Daniel Jones as the guy who has done the best lifting his teammates, but his physically limited.

Drew Lock is the super talented guy who is wildly inconsistent.

Will Grier as the "winning" college QB who might bring that moxy to the NFL (but arm strength worries)

Brett Rypien as the Day 3 guy who could be the suprise QB of the draft.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:59 pm 
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Ben Allbright saying the more he watches the more he thinks Daniel Jones is the guy in this draft. Interesting because Kouffman and Clancy keep talking about Jones' weak arm on deep throws being a really bad sign. They posted a video example and said even average arm QBs like Drew Brees can at least drive a deep ball, not hang it up with no RPMs.

All the more reason I just don't think this is the the draft for a 1st Round QB, unless you want to trade into the very back end of the 1st Round.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:36 pm 
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Herbert's arm is not incredible either, but it's good enough. What I like is his ability to make anticipation throws, use fakes against defenders, he seems crafty unlike Tannehill who is more of a drop back and read type of guy. Herbert will try to move the defense a bit to create plays. And his mobility is more fluid than Tannehill. While Tannehill can run, he is kind of a stiff runner.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:30 pm 
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Oh I agree, he's a better prospect than Tannehill and if he falls to Miami (should he declare) then pull the trigger. I just wouldn't trade multiple 1st Round picks to move up for a guy who may end up being no better than mediocre at the NFL level.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:53 am 
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Any top prospect has a chance to be mediocre.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:22 am 
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I think Jammer is throwing around the mediocre term because he doesn’t sound sold on this Sherbert guy.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:33 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Any top prospect has a chance to be mediocre.


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True, but this guy doesn't seem to be getting the same type of scouting community love that previous top QB prospects did. I had this same debate years ago (not with you) about RG III when people were saying move everything to get him.

Now if Miami loses out and ends up with a top 8 pick you could talk me into moving a couple of 2nd Rounders to jump ahead of teams like the Giants and Jags.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:39 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
I think Jammer is throwing around the mediocre term because he doesn’t sound sold on this Sherbert guy.


Pretty much. Yeah he has a great skill set and his played big in some games, but what are his signature moments?

Recent very successful young QBs had those track records. Mahomes, Watson, Wentz, Goff...they all either played winning football or at the very least lifted talent around them while getting insane stats.

You could also argue Mariota, Wentz, Bortles, Manziel and any other disappointment had signature college moments that didn't translate.

There is a reason a lot of scouts are passing along the message to sports reporters that it may be best for Herbert to stay another year.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:58 pm 
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I want Ian Book or Tua Tagovailoa for our next QB. Ian is a junior and who knows, maybe he comes out early. Tua is a sophomore, so at least a year to wait. If neither one is in this years draft, then take any of Notre Dame’s or Alabama’s starting linemen to build the line our new QB will need. Move on from Tannehill and sign Bridgewater or let Brock or anyone hold the fort for a year and get nice high draft picks. 7-9 just gets us more misery. Maybe even trade Reshad Jones for draft ammo. Rebuild is coming, so let’s get on with it.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:21 pm 
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Wouldn't it be the most Miami Dolphins move to make the decision to go all in on a guy in what is going to be a weak qb draft class, and then miss out on the talent that will be there next year? We are the Charlie Brown of the NFL.

That said, I know nothing of Herbert, but if hes a project or a wild cars, why are we discussing him? Weve had enough projects, journeymen, and flat out lousy QBs that we should just focus on other needs this year and draft a QB that is more likely ready to go from the get go. I understand any player has the chance to be a bust, but darn let's try something different.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:16 am 
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00xtremeninja wrote:
That said, I know nothing of Herbert, but if hes a project or a wild cars, why are we discussing him? Weve had enough projects, journeymen, and flat out lousy QBs that we should just focus on other needs this year and draft a QB that is more likely ready to go from the get go. I understand any player has the chance to be a bust, but darn let's try something different.


I don't think he's a project, he's just not being discussed as a top overall pick. It is still quite early and none of us have seen all his games or heard what he is like commanding a huddle. Former player Geoff Schwartz tweeted a video of a dropped TD pass that was a beautiful throw, and said this has happened a lot to Herbert this year. That could explain a few things in terms of numbers and victories.

Keep an eye on Drew Lock too. He has not put together two straight weeks of very good throws against good defenses. If a coach can fix his mechanics and set up an offense that plays to his strengths (like Pederson did for Wentz) he will definitely carve up some defenses. I'm warming up to the idea of him in the late 1st Round.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:30 pm 
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Phil Simms commented on him on Friday with Mad dog Russo saying he needs to see more and his high lite reel needs more high lites. Not a great endorsement. But at least we are keeping an eye on him. I am sure if given the chance Gase will coach him up.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:42 am 
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An update on Herbert from 'Mando. From everything that I've heard about Herbert, it pretty much echos what our Draft Guru Jammer is saying about him: he's a top QB talent who needs to stay in college ball for another year if he wants to develop into a bona fide NFL starter. Even though he'll be drafted early and it may be hard for him to pass up such a great opportunity, another year in college should help him refine his qualities. My guess, though , is that he will come out this year once he realizes that a couple of nice arms are coming out in 2020 from the big schools and will push him down in the draft in 2020 no matter how he plays in 2019.

Armando Salguero wrote:
A few days earlier, a Dolphins contingent had traveled to Utah to scout the Oregon at Utah game. Obviously Justin Herbert plays for Oregon and there was interest in seeing him in person.

And I would tell you the Dolphins have slim chances of ever being able to draft Herbert in 2019. He’s an underclassman who is not certain to leave school before his senior season. And even if he bolts for the NFL, Herbert will be drafted well before a team that is currently not looking as if it will draft in the Top 5 spots of the next draft gets a chance to select him.

But the point is the Dolphins are at once trying to do all they can to make the best of this season while also allowing the personnel department to peak down the road at potential quarterbacks.


Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt- ... rylink=cpy

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:46 am 
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I've been talking up this QB for a few weeks now as I do get to see him play at times since I live in Raleigh. I like his feet, his ability to avoid a pass rush, and that he likes to look downfield if given the time. He still needs work, but he is well coached at Duke.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:09 am 
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Bleacher Report's Matt Miller said Jones reminds him a lot of Trubisky.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:19 am 
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jammer wrote:
True, but this guy doesn't seem to be getting the same type of scouting community love that previous top QB prospects did.


Not sure about that. Everything I read indicates that the more they watch him, the more they fall in love.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:57 am 
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I hope you're correct Rich because that would give a lot of us more hope. My concern is that if you're right then Oakland and the Giants are in much better positions to get him.

My sights are on Drew Lock right now. I love that he can simply flick his wrist and hit any throw. Needs a year on the bench and to stop throwing off his back foot, but his talent is 1st Round quality. Now is his mind fast enough to be an NFL QB?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:59 am 
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jammer wrote:
I hope you're correct Rich because that would give a lot of us more hope. My concern is that if you're right then Oakland and the Giants are in much better positions to get him.

My sights are on Drew Lock right now. I love that he can simply flick his wrist and hit any throw. Needs a year on the bench and to stop throwing off his back foot, but his talent is 1st Round quality. Now is his mind fast enough to be an NFL QB?


Right now, Herbert is projected as a top 5 pick in this draft. I doubt the Dolphins get him. The Giants have been paying a lot of attention to him as well.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:18 am 
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Rich wrote:
jammer wrote:
I hope you're correct Rich because that would give a lot of us more hope. My concern is that if you're right then Oakland and the Giants are in much better positions to get him.

My sights are on Drew Lock right now. I love that he can simply flick his wrist and hit any throw. Needs a year on the bench and to stop throwing off his back foot, but his talent is 1st Round quality. Now is his mind fast enough to be an NFL QB?


Right now, Herbert is projected as a top 5 pick in this draft. I doubt the Dolphins get him. The Giants have been paying a lot of attention to him as well.


Which is why I'm looking at Lock. If Haskins enters he becomes QB2.

If last night's game is where the NFL is trending then you need QBs who can drive a deep ball and put mustard on the intermediate throws. I think that eliminates a lot of the other prospects in this draft. Herbert, Lock and Haskins fit that bill physically.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:33 pm 
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Let me just add Gardner Minshew to that above list. I don't know if its the Mike Leach system, but just watched his highlights from this year and he has a Baker Mayfield look. I'm not saying he is as good or is a 1st round talent, but he throws an accurate ball with enough zip. I see the Mayfield grit and escape artist style that extends plays. He's a grad student so I thought he may be older but he's only 22 years old.

He looks a lot better than Luke Falk did with a much better arm.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:08 am 
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ESPN Insider wrote:
The five execs agreed that Oregon quarterback Justin Herbert is the No. 1 variable in this draft.

If Herbert declares for the draft, all five execs think he could become the top overall choice for a team needing a quarterback. They do not see other offensive players worthy of the top selection. They see defensive line as the strongest position both overall and at the very top.

"I don't know who is coming out, but the Oregon quarterback is going to be the first quarterback to go -- if not at one, then early," an exec said. "If one of these teams that already has a quarterback is picking No. 1, they are probably looking to trade it.


http://insider.espn.com/nfl/draft2019/i ... ng-picking


McShay ranks him as the 18th best player in the draft (Nov 20).

Todd McShay wrote:
18. Justin Herbert, QB, Oregon*

Grade: 89 | Height: 6-6 | Weight: 233 | Previous: 17

Herbert has elite size and good arm strength. He mixes some zip with touch but tends to stare down his primary target a tad too long. He will be a running threat -- he has four games with at least 30 rushing yards this season -- and he also has some athleticism. Herbert already has nearly 3,000 yards passing this season, and he has a 27-8 touchdown-interception ratio for the Ducks. He has a lot of room for development, including in the decision-making process, but there is talent here.


http://insider.espn.com/nfl/draft2019/i ... ngs-grades

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:37 pm 
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Is he hurt?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:28 am 
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For me only this one game sample last night, and he didn’t exactly stand out, especially playing against what was a poor team in Oregon St. Yes, he’s a big kid, strong arm, but he was inaccurate on downfield passes which was a topic brought up by Robert Smith at halftime, who mentioned that Herbert’s inconsistency was his one outstanding flaw. Smith added that the one thing QBs are unable to fix as they go up levels is their long passing accuracy. Unless there were other issues at play here, a top five ranking he did not demonstrate, so McShay’s 18th overall seems more appropriate and in my mind after seeing the kid only because he’s a QB and they are so highly prized today that they will be rated higher than they actually deserve.

By the way, his injury was not mentioned in the broadcast while I watched. I turned off after he left the game for good. He had been sacked, and he seemed to favor his right arm or shoulder as he left the field.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:05 pm 
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Some very ugly comparisons and descriptions from Allbright and Matt Miller concerning the QBs this year.

Miller cites a lot of scouts who don't want to take early chances on guys with "physical traits" and that it might be better for desperate teams to attempt a trade for the likes of Derek Carr.

Allbright compared Drew Lock to Blaine Gabbert, Will Grier to Case Keenum and Tyree Jackson to Paxton Lynch. Lots of talk also about Herbert's maturity being at a good enough level for the NFL.

Mike Tannenbaum was present to watch Grier yesterday.

I know its getting redundant but this may be a better draft for Miami to grab a DE and DT early and focus on a late Day 2/early Day 3 QB.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:21 pm 
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My vote would be for an active, physical, athletic MLB, something like Roquan Smith from GA and now the Bears. McMillan for us isn’t the answer and he creates huge holes by his lack of instincts, always winding up in the wrong place. Kiko, although useful, isn’t bulky enough to stuff the point of attack either. If the Fins return the dline they started with in 2018 they should be fine, but they need that strong inside LB presence. Absent of a top candidate for that position when Miami picks they should look to trade up for one if it doesn’t cost the farm, or stay and take an offensive lineman.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:50 pm 
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This draft has to be about fixing the interior O line. It will help whomever is stuck as the QB caretaker next year. It will allow the team to run the ball, kill clock and keep the crap D off the field. We need to get a good line in place and working together before we get our next franchise QB. How many years are we going to see this team stuck on stupid?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:15 am 
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Interesting college football this week end: Herbert looks to have a serious throwing shoulder injury, Duke's Daniel Jones stank up the field against Wake Forest, and NC State's Ryan Finley played below average against UNC.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:28 am 
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carreramia wrote:
My vote would be for an active, physical, athletic MLB, something like Roquan Smith from GA and now the Bears. McMillan for us isn’t the answer and he creates huge holes by his lack of instincts, always winding up in the wrong place. Kiko, although useful, isn’t bulky enough to stuff the point of attack either. If the Fins return the dline they started with in 2018 they should be fine, but they need that strong inside LB presence. Absent of a top candidate for that position when Miami picks they should look to trade up for one if it doesn’t cost the farm, or stay and take an offensive lineman.


I wouldn't give up on McMillan just yet but I also wouldn't hesitate to pull trigger if a blue chip talent at LB was available.

My vote right now is Zach Allen, DE from Boston College. He is a William Hayes type who can play edge setting DE or kick inside on passing downs. This DL went into the crapper both times Hayes got injured because all we have are speedy pass rushers who get pushed around by OLs.

A lot can change over the next six weeks.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:55 pm 
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jammer wrote:

I wouldn't give up on McMillan just yet but I also wouldn't hesitate to pull trigger if a blue chip talent at LB was available.


I hear you, but let me add Gesicki to McMillan on the wasted 2nd rounders list....history isn't on our side on this one. I know, we always say it's too soon but why is it that our picks aren't hits right off the bat, or even a year or two later? First rounders are your stars, and we've messed that up for the most part, but to round it out we have to hit on those 2nd and 3rd rounders. Where is Koa Misi (2nd), John Jerry (3rd), Daniel Thomas (2nd), Jonathan Martin (2nd), Jamar Taylor (2nd), Dallas Thomas (3rd), Billy Turner (3rd), Jordan Phillips (2nd), Cordrea Tankersley (3rd)? With the exception of one year, 2016 when they hit on 1 (Tunsil), 2 (Howard), and 3 (Drake), those on the list represent the bulk of our picks in those two rounds from 2010 through 2018. Imagine if we had hit on just four or five of those nine?

And I know we landed Reshad Jones waaay back in 2010 in the 5th, and that we can't resign everyone (Olivier Vernon, Clay and Landry), but when you add it all up it's overall a terrible performance which results in a roster today that lacks talent and no quality depth.

I'm watching a bunch of games today and Mark Andrews a 4th rounder this year on the Ravens, FOURTH ROUND!, and not only is he huge and can block he also is a good receiver. Where was our front office in that discussion?? Gesicki so far can't do either. And I'm not even gonna go in the Lamar Jackson direction, but I'll say this, how would the fans feel today if we had a Jackson to go to instead of this merry go 'round QB thing we've laughed at for the last several years? Fitz is great no doubt, but he's no QB.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:36 pm 
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Who needs a QB. 17 IS BACK!! what an opening drive.

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