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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:36 am 
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Mike Mayock wrote:
1 - Sam Darnold - QB, USC
2 - Saquon Barkley - RB, Penn State
3 - Baker Mayfield - QB, Oklahoma
4 - Bradley Chubb - DE, N.C. State
5 - Quenton Nelson - OG, Notre Dame
6 - Josh Allen - QB, Wyoming
7 - Derwin James - S, Florida State
8 - Roquan Smith - LB, Georgia
9 - Denzel Ward - CB, Ohio State
10 - Mike McGlinchey - OT, Notre Dame
11 - Tremaine Edmunds - LB, Virginia Tech
12 - Minkah Fitzpatrick - S, Alabama
13 - Vita Vea - DT, Washington
14 - Jaire Alexander - CB, Louisville
15 - Josh Rosen - QB, UCLA


11 - Tremaine Edmunds - LB, Virginia Tech

He gives the Dolphins tremendous value at the position and helps bolster their defense. Perhaps Miami will go with a quarterback, but Edmunds gives them a solid defensive player.



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... josh-allen

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:14 am 
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From what I have seen, Edmunds has very little in the way of weaknesses. The ones he does have (too aggressive against playaction) are correctable.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:06 am 
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Rich wrote:
From what I have seen, Edmunds has very little in the way of weaknesses. The ones he does have (too aggressive against playaction) are correctable.


Wait, who is this poster?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:35 am 
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If this prediction comes true I will be ecstatic.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:58 am 
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Right now I'd give almost anything for the Fins to draft Lamar Jackson at 11, even if some other Josh named guy is available. It would electrify fandom I think, and gosh knows we need electrification here....this is a franchise that has been on life support for decades and no LB, S, CB or some Josh named guy would do what Lamar Jackson could. I know he isn't ready to start, but that's OK, it would build expectations like nothing else can, and expectations is the life blood of fandom. So we give him a year, we let him mop up in November, December, get his feet wet, we line him up in the wildcat, put him out wide, send him in motion, he could represent any number of threats in other positions and a year from now, he gets the job. I mean, after all, we do have a QB Whisperer on board, do we not?

And what's the downside? We wait 2 years? Are we not still waiting for a dozen or so of our other, safe, need positions, top picks in over ten years to do anything? Or maybe our Whisperer fails in creating the right schematics, the right offensive philosophy. If so, get another Whisperer then for there's little doubt that in the right offense, with the right coaching a talent like Jackson will succeed.

So, that's it. If Jackson comes here we'll be talking through our ears about the Fins. When camp opens we'll be on edge to get news on how Jackson is doing every day. Pre-season games will actually mean something. If however, as is more likely to happen, this front office chickens out, takes the safe way, the let's keep my job way, and drafts another tweener or invisible DT, either of which we'll read nothing about in camp because these coaches have proven they can't develop anybody and to excuse their incompetence they feed the writers the party line that the kids are "not ready", then par for the course and it'll be just another Fins boring summer with no future in sight.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:04 pm 
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I agree, I think it’s Lamar, and I want it to be Lamar. Every other quarterback has weaknesses in this draft, why not take the one that can be used at other positions and offer the speed that Lamar has.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:05 pm 
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carreramia wrote:
Right now I'd give almost anything for the Fins to draft Lamar Jackson at 11, even if some other Josh named guy is available. It would electrify fandom I think, and gosh knows we need electrification here....this is a franchise that has been on life support for decades and no LB, S, CB or some Josh named guy would do what Lamar Jackson could. I know he isn't ready to start, but that's OK, it would build expectations like nothing else can, and expectations is the life blood of fandom. So we give him a year, we let him mop up in November, December, get his feet wet, we line him up in the wildcat, put him out wide, send him in motion, he could represent any number of threats in other positions and a year from now, he gets the job. I mean, after all, we do have a QB Whisperer on board, do we not?

And what's the downside? We wait 2 years? Are we not still waiting for a dozen or so of our other, safe, need positions, top picks in over ten years to do anything? Or maybe our Whisperer fails in creating the right schematics, the right offensive philosophy. If so, get another Whisperer then for there's little doubt that in the right offense, with the right coaching a talent like Jackson will succeed.

So, that's it. If Jackson comes here we'll be talking through our ears about the Fins. When camp opens we'll be on edge to get news on how Jackson is doing every day. Pre-season games will actually mean something. If however, as is more likely to happen, this front office chickens out, takes the safe way, the let's keep my job way, and drafts another tweener or invisible DT, either of which we'll read nothing about in camp because these coaches have proven they can't develop anybody and to excuse their incompetence they feed the writers the party line that the kids are "not ready", then par for the course and it'll be just another Fins boring summer with no future in sight.

Alot can be said for getting the fan base excited..


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:12 pm 
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It would be a bummer for me if the Phins took Lamar Jackson at 11. If he is taken I will root for him to do well but I hope it is not him. I don't think he will see long term success in the nfl.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:32 pm 
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How many people on Phinfever have complained about Tannehill as an athlete playing QB who took too long to develop? And now we want another QB who will take quite a bit of time to develop at the pro level? That is not my analysis by the way, I'm relying on the people who watch these guys for a living.

People are saying Michael Vick or Russell Wilson. I call BS. Vick was other worldly and we've seen others like him get squashed pretty quickly. Wilson, if not for height, was said by just about everyone to be a consensus 1st overall pick. He is mobile because he has to be with his size, but his accuracy and understanding of a pro offense wasn't a concern coming out of college.

You want an unpopular comp - Tyrod Taylor. Exceptional athlete, great speed, fantastic deep ball, very smart...but struggles with short and intermediate accuracy.

I also disagree with the fan base being energized and I use my first sentence as case and point. I believe there would be a collective groan if Taylor was taken at 11, especially if a blue chip defender (Fitzpatrick, James, Smith, Edmunds) is sitting there. Those guys have the potential to be game changers for a long time.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:26 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Wilson, if not for height, was said by just about everyone to be a consensus 1st overall pick. He is mobile because he has to be with his size, but his accuracy and understanding of a pro offense wasn't a concern coming out of college.


Russell Wilson was a lot like Lamar Jackson as a freshman, but he had a couple of concussions. Tom O'Brien, who coached Matty Ice at Boston College, made him sit in the pocket and develop his accuracy.

Would I be disappointed if we drafted Lamar Jackson? Yes, a little bit, but I think he is going to be a good NFL quarterback. Louisville created the problems we are seeing with his stance which affects his accuracy and consistency. My biggest problem is that he isn't the prettiest face to represent my team (Yep, I'm saying the guy is ugly).

:haha

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:04 pm 
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Tannehill developed? I'm still waiting for a 30 td season or even a top 20 qb.

And "those guys" don't play qb... Qb's are drafted ahead of other positions. In many many many cases.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:22 pm 
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Big Dave wrote:
My biggest problem is that he isn't the prettiest face to represent my team (Yep, I'm saying the guy is ugly).

:haha


There was a song waaaay back in the 60's, it went something like this: "If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife, so for my personal point of view, get an ugly girl to marry you!"

We've had a "pretty wife" for several years now, and just like the song predicted almost 60 years ago, we are still waiting for it to make us happy.

:yay:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:54 pm 
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jammer wrote:
How many people on Phinfever have complained about Tannehill as an athlete playing QB who took too long to develop? And now we want another QB who will take quite a bit of time to develop at the pro level? That is not my analysis by the way, I'm relying on the people who watch these guys for a living.

I also disagree with the fan base being energized and I use my first sentence as case and point. I believe there would be a collective groan if Taylor was taken at 11, especially if a blue chip defender (Fitzpatrick, James, Smith, Edmunds) is sitting there. Those guys have the potential to be game changers for a long time.


First of all, let's not even compare Tannehill athletically to Jackson. He's not even in the same zip code in terms of athleticism, ability to create, make people miss, etc. Second of all, six years later Tannehill has still not developed as a QB and this franchise can not afford to waste any more time. Jackson will need development but his upside is so much more that even if we had to wait half the time wasted on Tannehill Jackson would make it worth taking the chance, and even more so when the alternative, ie., drafting so-called blue chippers, has been tried here over and over for ten, twenty years and we've still not seen one game changer in the lot.

And unless the coaches put led weights on his ankles and make him what he isn't, a pocket QB, there's no doubt Jackson would make our fingers tingle if drafted. He's exciting, is a gifted, natural play maker, often all by himself. Who was the last one we had that could do that? Ricky? Mercury? Warfield? Marino? A big part of the problem with this team's image, besides the donkeys that own the team and run the front office, is that it is all blasé, indifferent, nothing worth watching, in other words boring. You add "loser" to "boring" and it's way past the time to do something about it.

Now, having said all that, I doubt this front office has the cojones to pull it off, but well, that's my wish for tonight.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:00 pm 
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carreramia wrote:
First of all, let's not even compare Tannehill athletically to Jackson. He's not even in the same zip code in terms of athleticism, ability to create, make people miss, etc. Second of all, six years later Tannehill has still not developed as a QB and this franchise can not afford to waste any more time. Jackson will need development but his upside is so much more that even if we had to wait half the time wasted on Tannehill Jackson would make it worth taking the chance, and even more so when the alternative, ie., drafting so-called blue chippers, has been tried here over and over for ten, twenty years and we've still not seen one game changer in the lot.

And unless the coaches put led weights on his ankles and make him what he isn't, a pocket QB, there's no doubt Jackson would make our fingers tingle if drafted. He's exciting, is a gifted, natural play maker, often all by himself. Who was the last one we had that could do that? Ricky? Mercury? Warfield? Marino? A big part of the problem with this team's image, besides the donkeys that own the team and run the front office, is that it is all blasé, indifferent, nothing worth watching, in other words boring. You add "loser" to "boring" and it's way past the time to do something about it.

Now, having said all that, I doubt this front office has the cojones to pull it off, but well, that's my wish for tonight.


Ok, between this and Kev's post there is a lot to unpack. I don't know what he means by "those guys" but whatever.

You guys are contradicting yourselves and assigning a value to Lamar Jackson that doesn't appear to be there in the professional scouting community.

Kev said something about QBs being taken many many times before needs. If we go back 20 years the percentage of "hits" on a 1st Round QB is at best 25%. In hindsight everyone complains they wasted their pick on QB X when this bonafide starter was available. So is the GM who takes a chance every year or the one plays it smart better? Darnold and Mayfield are the only projected QBs who have a floor as "average" starting QB.

You can praise Jackson is the more electric runner but how often does that translate to the NFL? Rarely. Jackson struggles with the same things that countless other mobile QBs do - short and mid accuracy, bailing on the pocket too soon, and having simple reads. His upside is better than Tannehill? Please re-read the scouting reports from 2012 and comp them with what you're reading now. I'm sure you'll be surprised. You're falling for the shiny new toy. Jackson could be Aaron Rodgers or he could be RG III. History and odds point to the latter more than the first guy.

Now look at what else is available at the position. I think Jackson is a fine pick in the 2nd Round, maybe even worth moving up in the round or to the late 1st. But Mike White, Luke Falk and Mason Rudolph all display the short and mid term accuracy that translate to NFL success. They have better size and are proven leaders. No saying Jackson isn't a leader, but just pointing out these other guys aren't cast offs and have just as good of a chance to succeed.

Now if you want bold than really be bold. Trade everything to go up and get Darnold or Mayfield, whichever one slips. I'm fine with that so long as we understand the odds.

There is a guy on Twitter who goes by Joe W Dolphins. Omar Kelly talks with him often. He is hyper critical of QBs and a known Tannehill denouncer. He is pretty accurate with who he has advocated for the in the past (he was spot on with Dak Prescott and was calling for Mayfield before many others). He basically has said Mayfield is the guy, Darnold is pretty good, and otherwise wait for either White or Rudolph in the 2nd tier. He doesn't like Jackson for the size and accuracy concerns. He also wants nothing to do with Rosen or Allen. Combine that with Galko, Allbright and others saying the same thing and you have yourself a researched QB argument.

So again, do we go for another truly unknown like Tannehill (asked to be more a dual threat) that could take more than usual time to find out if they have IT, or find a playmaker at another spot? A QB is coming to Miami in this draft. I just hope they either trade up like crazy to get Darnold/Mayfield or take a solid guy in Round 2/3. Remember, Joe Flacco won a Super Bowl and has never come close to throwing 30 TDs in a season.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:32 am 
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Thankfully imo he is gone so not an option now.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:39 am 
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Ravens show why their front office is regarded as one of the tops in football....while at 11 considering Jackson would not have been wise Miami could have traded down and give themselves more options...there certainly was a lot of that activity going on so it's not like there would not have been trading partners to talk to. Instead we settle, as we always do with this go-nowhere regime. Fitzpatrick may be the next Ronnie Lott but with our history of first rounders the odds are stacked against him. The trash bins in Dolphins camp are overflowing with busted DB picks. Hopefully Fitz bucks that stinking trend.

Boring and predictable, inching our way nowhere. There may still be a chance today to add a QB but it won't be as sure a bet to finally relive us of the Tannehill albatross.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:11 am 
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carreramia wrote:
Ravens show why their front office is regarded as one of the tops in football


:)

Their roster has little offensive talent, Dez Bryant refused to sign there because he knows they won't win, and their record over the past 3 seasons is 9-7, 8-8 and 5-11. What have they done in the last few years that has maintained the reputation they carried 10 years ago?

When Ozzie Newsome built a defensive juggernaut they were successful. Miami drafts their best defensive prospect (maybe overall prospect) in 10 years and you complain? FYI, Newsome did the same last year by sitting and letting Marlon Humphrey land in his lap.

If you don't believe then read up on some analyst notes regarding QBs. You should not be disappointed if Miami walks away with Mike White, Mason Rudolph, Luke Falk or Kyle Lauletta today when comparing their pro potential to Lamar Jackson's.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:04 am 
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jammer wrote:
[ What have they done in the last few years that has maintained the reputation they carried 10 years ago?

Miami drafts their best defensive prospect (maybe overall prospect) in 10 years and you complain?

You should not be disappointed if Miami walks away with Mike White, Mason Rudolph, Luke Falk or Kyle Lauletta today when comparing their pro potential to Lamar Jackson's.


Ravens FO may not be today what they've been but the Miami FO has been nothing for decades. If I had to choose which one may make the right decision for me today, it's hands down the Ravens.

You may trust all this pre-draft mumbo jumbo scouting but Fitz' "best defensive prospect" sounds a lot like Tunsil was two years ago on offense. I wouldn't want anything less than a straight line to the HOF for this new guy but right now, before the 1st snap of his career, Fitz is as much an unknown in the pro game as I would be. How many times do you see our team not able to get top picks to fit in and who are unable to contribute right away? Every year but Landry's first year should be the answer. Their excuses would fill the old Orange Bowl: he's not ready. He is working hard. He has to learn the speed of the game. Yada, yada, yada. Now, it may not be him, it could be coaching and heaven knows we've been miserable in that department.

And it's not so much I'm "complaining", I would have said the same whether it was this guy or some other guy that wasn't a QB. So, I hope you are right and the team makes a serious move tonight to address that problem. And tonight means not tomorrow, not for some practice squad tackling dummy, tonight, a serious prospect. But, seriously, do I trust them to be smart, to make the difficult long term move, to have that vision, to trade up if the guy falls?

Nah. Nah. Nah. And Nah.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:19 am 
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carreramia wrote:
And it's not so much I'm "complaining"


Seriously, I'm just trying to get you to laugh a little and consider other options. You sound like you're on suicide watch with some of these posts.

I get it, not a great track record for this team. Its why I said I would have mortgaged the future on Sam Darnold to be bold.

I don't think its that Jackson will be awful, in fact I'd bet on him being a better pro QB than Rosen or Allen. But his game strikes as more Tyrod Taylor than Aaron Rodgers, so its not a guy I reach for in Round 1 just because he is a QB. Give me a guy with a cleaner game and better accuracy. I know people will call it a reach but I'd be thrilled if Miami stunned everyone and take Mike White in Round 2. There might be 2 or 3 elite prospect left so you can begin gambling now. If there was junk available at 11 I'd probably endorse your idea of Jackson.

Lets turn it back to the Ravens to prove my point. If Joe Flacco and Ed Reed are available in a draft at 11, which guy are you taking? Which one really did more to advance his team? Which one was still successful without an elite guy at the other position?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:25 am 
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Kev1321 wrote:
Tannehill developed? I'm still waiting for a 30 td season ....


Now, that right there, is one of your very few better arguments against Tannehill. If Gase cannot get a 30 TD season from him then no one can. Let's see what Tannhill can do this year, because in all sincerity, the Dolphins have put all their chips on Tannehill for this year (and possibly next year since they restructured his contract to create more cap space for THIS YEAR ... a mistake I feel coming from a Tannehill supporter such as myself).

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:37 am 
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imo the odds of getting a qb better than Tannehill after round 1 are not that good. Maybe Gase can take someone and mold him but I think it would take a couple of years of not starting. Fine to take someone later like Mike White who might be available in the 3rd or fourth.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:14 pm 
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Big Dave wrote:
Kev1321 wrote:
Tannehill developed? I'm still waiting for a 30 td season ....


Now, that right there, is one of your very few better arguments against Tannehill. If Gase cannot get a 30 TD season from him then no one can. Let's see what Tannhill can do this year, because in all sincerity, the Dolphins have put all their chips on Tannehill for this year (and possibly next year since they restructured his contract to create more cap space for THIS YEAR ... a mistake I feel coming from a Tannehill supporter such as myself).


If the throws 29 TDs but Miami wins a playoff game does he still suck?

QBs who have never thrown 30 TDs but are considered successful - Kirk Cousins, Joe Flacco, Alex Smith

QBs who are considered elite or close:

Ben Roethlisberger - 14 seasons, only 30+ TD passes twice (32,32)
Eli Manning - 14 seasons, 30+ TDs three times (30,31,35)
Matt Ryan - 10 seasons, 30+ TDs twice (32,38)
Matt Stafford - 9 seasons, 30+ TDs twice (41,32)

The exceptions are Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Philp Rivers. Tannehill isn't ever getting into that crowd. It just shows that even the top 10 QBs don't often throw for 30 TDs. If Tannehill throws 30 TDs this year and Miami goes 8-8 do we cheer? When Rivers was throwing 30 TDs his teams were mostly .500.

I will excuse his rookie year, but in Tannehill's 5 years as QB he's twice been top 15 in Rating (12th and 14th) and twice in the 20s (24th and 21st). If he wants to QB Miami beyond this year he needs that rating closer to 10th and his team needs double digit wins. That's pretty much it. 30 TD passes is a meaningless hurdle if it comes via mop up duty, and frankly so is QB rating if he is stat padding while his team is losing.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:17 pm 
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AQNOR wrote:
imo the odds of getting a qb better than Tannehill after round 1 are not that good. Maybe Gase can take someone and mold him but I think it would take a couple of years of not starting. Fine to take someone later like Mike White who might be available in the 3rd or fourth.


I would seriously double down on QB. Take a guy tonight and then use a 7th on guys like Chase Litton, Kyle Allen or this kid Alex McGough who they seem to like. Riley Ferguson was another name mentioned. Heck, if Kurt Benkert is still there in the late 6th give it a go.

The goal should be to have a guy who makes you comfortable releasing Osweiler and Fales in August, and, who can develop fast enough to push Tannehill next year. Unless of course Tannehill flops badly and Miami is picking QB early next year (which isn't out of the question).


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:26 pm 
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Only twice.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:23 pm 
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Another QB that hasn't thrown 30 TDs that people talk about as successful......John Elway.

:workit


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