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 Post subject: A little perspective....
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:27 am 
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....I think is needed as we wallow in this gloom and doom world called being a Dolphins fan. A myriad of proposed solutions, like in all of our off-seasons in memory, are being bandied about. Draft this. Sign that. Don't sign this. Fire that. All well and good, it fills this and other forums, but today, I want to just put out there the "other side".

How would you like to be a die hard Kansas City Chief fan today? I watched that game yesterday and it was an enjoyable game if you aren't a fan of either team. It was heart attack like, reminding me of our many years of regular season success followed by post season disappointment. The comments then were like, we are good but not good enough. We have to lose to get the real big prize in the draft. Well.....??

Anyway, this morning I went to the Kansas City Star website, and read the game's local articles there, all of them bemoaning the Chiefs horrible playoff history and today faced again with looking at another bummer of an off-season. Fire the coach! Trade this bum QB! Boy, wouldn't we want to have these "problems" in Miami: a roster full of pro-bowlers, great drafts, a play maker at QB (despite his many detractors), a coach with a winning pedigree, etc., I would trade rosters and coaches with the Chiefs' in a NY minute! But no, they are not talking about all those good things, instead they are talking and cursing their luck. Multiple losses at home, unexplainable and frustrating reasons for those losses, like a QB that throws a key TD pass to himself?? Not one but two incredible gaffes by the officials on fumbles, one that would have given the Chiefs points? A FG goes "boink!" off the upright?

Anyway, those of us that have been around this Dolphins revolving door for 20-30 years should take a minute and recall the "good ol' days". Ha! Then ask a Chiefs' fan how they feel today! Somehow our "dire world" won't feel so dire, at least for a minute, so.....enjoy the moment!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:32 am 
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....oh, and here's one of those articles I was talking about.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-co ... 99334.html


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:19 am 
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Perspective:

Miami's HC just finished his 2nd season and had as many playoff appearances as Andy Reid had by his 2nd season. He also did it with a QB last year who is Alex Smith with a stronger arm. He didn't have said QB this year and the team flopped, much like Reid's teams did when McNabb wasn't around.

Miami's roster has plenty of young potential.

Let's see what Miami does with their QB back and an offense of guys on the same page. If they flop then you're right and its time to blow it up. But if they are back to double digit wins and the playoffs then this year was an anomaly under Cutler and misplaced faith in Ajayi.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:31 am 
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sorry that you misunderstood the whole point in my post, that's on me I guess...... but one thing, where did I say anything about blowing it up? Although in retrospect that sounds like a good idea right about now. Hadn't thought of that.

Seriously, the Chiefs, to use just one example, will long be in contention before these Dolphins straighten their numerous problems out and by then our QB, head coach and even front office may be different. This young potential you are talking about sounds like Tennenbaum in PC's trying to defend his job. In reality, all these players have been blasted for failing to achieve, for inconsistency, for character issues, on and on, and on these very pages by fans, who like you, follow the team closely, so somewhere here there's a serious disconnect between reality and delusion.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:23 am 
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Quote:
How would you like to be a die hard Kansas City Chief fan today?


I wouldn't, that just hurt. Ouch! Andy Reid seems cursed with the Shottenheimer luck.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:50 am 
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carreramia wrote:
sorry that you misunderstood the whole point in my post, that's on me I guess...... but one thing, where did I say anything about blowing it up? Although in retrospect that sounds like a good idea right about now. Hadn't thought of that.

Seriously, the Chiefs, to use just one example, will long be in contention before these Dolphins straighten their numerous problems out and by then our QB, head coach and even front office may be different. This young potential you are talking about sounds like Tennenbaum in PC's trying to defend his job. In reality, all these players have been blasted for failing to achieve, for inconsistency, for character issues, on and on, and on these very pages by fans, who like you, follow the team closely, so somewhere here there's a serious disconnect between reality and delusion.


The Phins might not be that far off from the Chiefs. As we start to get 20/20 hindsight on this past year, Cutler really was a huge issue. Not saying Tannehill is the man, but some of throws he makes that Cutler no longer can are the difference between 6 and 9 wins. I'm talking 20+ yard TD passes and bullets into tight windows. Someone just tweeted out several videos of Cutler missing an open Stills for large gains on a consistent basis. And no, Matt Moore can't either. Anyone who watches all of Moore's drop backs from last year when he posted a nice stat line can clearly see his numbers were inflated by WR YAC. There is a nice YouTube series of videos to back that up.

I'm not trying to sell Tannenbaum's nonsense about the young guys, but you can't deny there is some real talent in the crew. Howard, Drake, Godchaux and maybe McMillan and Harris. These guys all could have Pro Bowl potential. Its not their fault that Cutler sucked, Ajayi went off script, Parker and Landry had route running issues, the OL was blowing assignments and the LBs weren't up to the task.

I think Gase has this team setup to be the Chiefs - consistent 9 or 10 win team with playoff potential for 4 years. Reid did that with Smith and once the core was in place he had the luxury of trading up to get his hopefully elite QB. With Tannehill back, the younger guys getting experience under their belts, and a ground game that is consistent we will see the Chiefs team you speak of, except the uniform will say Dolphins.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:57 am 
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You are right. Everyone’s team is gripped with bad luck and has the worst track record in the NFL. I have seen MULTIPLE Patriot fans pound the table in firing Billy Cheat in 2014 just for starting the season 1-3. As if his prior THIRTEEN seasons of dominance suddenly didn’t matter because of a mildly rocky start.

They finished beating Seattle in the Super Bowl 3 months later. If you want an insight into the human psyche...it’s sad. People just like to byotch regardless of how good they have it.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:26 pm 
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I envy your optimism but it's the off-season, the time when all hopes spring eternal. We are hoping Tannehill returns to form, a form which by the way had flaws that are still being talked about. So not only does he have to recover his health and prove he is durable, he has to continue to work on his mechanics and all the stuff the Whisperer was brought here to fix.

The young guys you mentioned have done little to prove they can be a core, we need to see more, especially Drake who will need an offensive line, something that this franchise is unable to fix.

And you need to reflect a little on some of the very things you said:

"Cutler sucked, Ajayi went off script, Parker and Landry had route running issues, the OL was blowing assignments and the LBs weren't up to the task."

All those things point back to Gase. So like at the all-important QB position, this team has major question marks with the two most important people needed to achieve the annual playoff caliber team you're selling me. I'm trying hard to see how that can be seemed as promising today but it's difficult, really difficult.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:48 pm 
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If Mahomes is the real deal then I think the Chiefs take the next step. That team has scary talent especially on offense.

If Tannehill is the real deal (i think he is) then I think the Dolphins take the next step. That team has scary talent especially on offense.

Good analogy you picked between the 2 teams.
But at least for the Dolphins next season should be the determining one for Gase.
I would even have to add that even with injuries as they have become such a part of the game that depth is no longer an after thought but a requirement. And the ability to raise your team when a key guy goes down. Especially to a winning team.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:00 pm 
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carreramia wrote:
And you need to reflect a little on some of the very things you said:

"Cutler sucked, Ajayi went off script, Parker and Landry had route running issues, the OL was blowing assignments and the LBs weren't up to the task."

All those things point back to Gase. So like at the all-important QB position, this team has major question marks with the two most important people needed to achieve the annual playoff caliber team you're selling me. I'm trying hard to see how that can be seemed as promising today but it's difficult, really difficult.


I don't disagree at all. I've asked as much in previous threads - is there something deeper here we need to be concerned about?

We've had two seasons of Gase, both with different results. Because the bad is so fresh it seemed your post is pointing to that being the norm. But this time last year other "bad" teams were looking at Miami and saying "see, these guys are now on the right track." So if we are going for perspective, perhaps we shouldn't be too hot or too cold on this team. Let's see if things get fixed before we say "we wish were at least the Chiefs" because we may already be there by next year.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:14 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
I have seen MULTIPLE Patriot fans pound the table in firing Billy Cheat in 2014 just for starting the season 1-3. As if his prior THIRTEEN seasons of dominance suddenly didn’t matter because of a mildly rocky start.

They finished beating Seattle in the Super Bowl 3 months later. If you want an insight into the human psyche...it’s sad. People just like to byotch regardless of how good they have it.

Looking forward to the day the Pats suck and it will come. All the bandwagon fans who never know the 70's/80's Pats will be bailing ship quickly.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:36 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
I have seen MULTIPLE Patriot fans pound the table in firing Billy Cheat in 2014 just for starting the season 1-3. As if his prior THIRTEEN seasons of dominance suddenly didn’t matter because of a mildly rocky start.

They finished beating Seattle in the Super Bowl 3 months later. If you want an insight into the human psyche...it’s sad. People just like to byotch regardless of how good they have it.

Looking forward to the day the Pats are not good and it will come. All the bandwagon fans who never have know life without BB / Brady will scatter like roaches when the light comes on.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:39 pm 
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jammer wrote:
I don't disagree at all. I've asked as much in previous threads - is there something deeper here we need to be concerned about?


Probably, if the beat writers are correct.

Players laughing and joking in the lockeroom after the Raven's game. Continuing to do so through the next 3 losses.

Short practices while trying to install the most complicated offensive scheme.

Paying a DJ to play music during practices.

Players consistently showing up late and unprepared to meetings, but not being disciplined for it.

Using certain players too much and others not enough. (Having talent but not using it properly)

Unable to evaluate current players and FA veterans correctly.

It all points to one thing.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:50 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Because the bad is so fresh it seemed your post is pointing to that being the norm. But this time last year other "bad" teams were looking at Miami and saying "see, these guys are now on the right track."


OK, so I'll be abundantly cooperative here, there were good things from Gase in 2016, but......that's as far as I'll go knowing what I know today for this "bad" of 2017 just can not be overlooked. It's necessary to see how a head coach, a new one for all intents and purposes, reacts and stands up to adversity. This one faced a load of it this year and I hate to say it but he struggled mightily. Maybe it was too much for young Gase, what with the Tanehill, the anthem, hurricane, Timmons, Ajayi, the oline coach....penalties, Cutler, all that, but no softballs here so we can only draw one conclusion, he wasn't up to it. If he's gonna be a big boy in this game he better get his A game in dealing with problems, it ain't always gonna be first year honeymoons.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:31 pm 
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I'm not guaranteeing Miami will be successful by any stretch. I just think the pieces are there for a playoff team. If Gase and Co. can't put it all together then we are really screwed as fans


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:33 pm 
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zatrex99 wrote:
Players laughing and joking in the lockeroom after the Raven's game. Continuing to do so through the next 3 losses.

Short practices while trying to install the most complicated offensive scheme.

Paying a DJ to play music during practices.

Players consistently showing up late and unprepared to meetings, but not being disciplined for it.

Using certain players too much and others not enough. (Having talent but not using it properly)

Unable to evaluate current players and FA veterans correctly.

It all points to one thing.


Never read about locker room laughing, no penalties for being late/unprepared nor cutting practice short. If that is true then I lost a lot of confidence in Gase. You don't have to be a dictator, but this isn't beer league softball where you just show up and "try".


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:06 pm 
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Which pieces have proven to u they are playoff quality? Who's our big play guy on offense, defense, special teams? Not who we hope it can be who is he today? Has our QB proven to you he's playoff caliber? What's the strength of our defense? Is this playbook or the playcalling imaginative? These things or some of them need to have stood out or else how can we judge if we have them?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:33 pm 
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carreramia wrote:
Which pieces have proven to u they are playoff quality? Who's our big play guy on offense, defense, special teams? Not who we hope it can be who is he today? Has our QB proven to you he's playoff caliber? What's the strength of our defense? Is this playbook or the playcalling imaginative? These things or some of them need to have stood out or else how can we judge if we have them?


Tannehill had the team at 8-5 before injury. They played two jokes and lost to the Pats. So yeah, he proved he can get them to the playoffs. I'll take it so I don't have to endure the constant misery of 5 or 6 win seasons.

Landry and Stills had plenty of big plays with Tannehill throwing to them, not just 5 yard throws that they took for 50 yards of YAC. Drake didn't even get a chance until the middle of the season and he did great. Damien Williams was a great receiving back in 2016. Marquise Gray made plays in 2016. I have faith that will happen again.

On defense, Xavien Howard stepped up. Harris led the team in QB pressures. McDonald has proven to be this hybrid guy Burke speaks of.

I think you're downplaying how much the playbook had to be restricted this year. Lots of improvement needed, but guys have provided evidence they can do it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:33 pm 
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Love ur passion hang on to it....to me lots of improvement as you point out is dead on but all it equals is who we are...a team that hovers around .500, may steal a game or two or with help back in. A playoff team dominates at times. You win the games ur supposed to. And you certainly don't get blown out 3 x on national TV....You may lose one or more of those but you compete, look like u belong. How much is needed to get there? Lots.


Last edited by carreramia on Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:38 pm 
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carreramia wrote:
a team that hovers around .500, may steal a game or two or with help back in.


Agreed. And is that enough? For now, I'm okay with it. But don't become Baltimore or Cincy.

My hope is that the young talent rises to the occasion and in a year or two Gase drafts his version of Mahomes once the other pieces are place.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:03 pm 
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Here's some perspective for you........the Cowboys in 2016 have the league's best OL, Prescott comes in as a rookie and looks like a seasoned vet, their running game is one of the most productive......2017 injuries decimate the Cowboys' OL, suddenly Prescott looks like a true rookie and they can't run the ball with any consistency.

We have the pieces in place for a good offense, we just need better players on the OL (and a good TE). On defense, just give us a LB or 2 that can cover a TE, we'll be set. But our biggest need is definitely the OL, stop bargain basement hunting players for it, get some good talent there and we'll be ok.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:31 pm 
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How is that any better perspective? 13-3 says the Cowboys proved they have less to worry about than us. They have the pieces. How long have we been saying we need those very things? How many times have they tried? How many times have they whiffed trying?

I don't know those answers but the bigger question is, are u and me even gonna be around to see it?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:35 am 
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I'm just saying besides the QB position, the main difference between the 2016 and 2017 Dolphins is the OL. Remember we started 1-3 in 2016 and only started winning after major changes were made to the OL. Had we started 2016 with those changes we might have had a 12-4 record. Just like the Cowboys, often the difference between mediocre and making the playoffs is the OL.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:08 am 
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That's a stretch but I'll buy it....however, in 17 we had other issues that in 18 have to be fixed the first day of the first mini camp....and it's the lockeroom....the whole Ajayi thing, the penalties, there was a discipline problem that Gase attacked early on (the studying thing, etc) and it sort of fizzled like it had gotten away from him....the players know what they can get away with and will.....Gase has to toughen up his act and make it real, not just a front.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:29 am 
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carreramia wrote:
Gase has to toughen up his act and make it real, not just a front.


Yup. Philbin played a tough guy but no one bought his act or respected his leadership. The only time I recall the team rallying around him was when he had a death in the family. They went out, won big and presented him the game ball. It was a great moment, but unfortunately was no more than a moment.

Maybe a little off topic, but wow was yesterday's AFC game terrible. Talk about 2 teams that need offensive upgrades immediately.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:59 am 
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Relive1972 wrote:
I'm just saying besides the QB position, the main difference between the 2016 and 2017 Dolphins is the OL. Remember we started 1-3 in 2016 and only started winning after major changes were made to the OL. Had we started 2016 with those changes we might have had a 12-4 record. Just like the Cowboys, often the difference between mediocre and making the playoffs is the OL.


Actually, the definitive difference between 2016 and 2017 is we went from +2 to -14 in turnover differential. The change you're referring to wasn't just personnel but simplifying the offense, especially pass protection.

The OL was actually a smidgen better this year, though we still suck at run blocking. When Drake and Williams replaced Ajayi at RB, pass blocking got better.

What I'm guessing will make or break us in 2018 is Tannehill. Can he come in run this offense as its leader? Will he push back on Gase and say: that's a dumb play, coach. You're overthinking again. Will he stand in the pocket till the last minute to take that crucial downfield shot, now knowing he's not invincible?

Fixing the OL and making the wide nine defense work would also help, but I'm not holding my breath on either.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:34 am 
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jammer wrote:
Maybe a little off topic, but wow was yesterday's AFC game terrible. Talk about 2 teams that need offensive upgrades immediately.


The Buffalo offense isn't as bad as the Jax offense, and we should know. It's just that the Jax defense made them look awful, and that guy Miles Jack! Wow, what a hunter that guy is. He should be the standard used for a playmaking, skilled, fast, and tough LB in the NFL of today, where they have to take on 330+ LB blockers the size of mountains, plug the holes in the run defense, be able to pass rush and cover sideline to sideline. Four players rolled into one.

On the Jax side, their offense suffers at the hands of Bortles. Man, that guy was lousy yesterday.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:35 pm 
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If Jax. had a QB I might have to admit they would be the best NFL team in the state of Florida.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:50 pm 
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That's a stretch but I'll buy it....however, in 17 we had other issues that in 18 have to be fixed the first day of the first mini camp....and it's the lockeroom....the whole Ajayi thing, the penalties, there was a discipline problem that Gase attacked early on (the studying thing, etc) and it sort of fizzled like it had gotten away from him....the players know what they can get away with and will.....Gase has to toughen up his act and make it real, not just a front.


I agree that the locker room and lack of discipline were 2 of the biggest issues this year. Here is an interesting article about Miami's inexperienced coaching staff. Hopefully we get more experience on the staff for next year.

https://phinphanatic.com/2018/01/05/dol ... ng-report/


Last edited by vafinfan on Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:50 pm 
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carreramia wrote:
jammer wrote:
Maybe a little off topic, but wow was yesterday's AFC game terrible. Talk about 2 teams that need offensive upgrades immediately.


The Buffalo offense isn't as bad as the Jax offense, and we should know. It's just that the Jax defense made them look awful, and that guy Miles Jack! Wow, what a hunter that guy is. He should be the standard used for a playmaking, skilled, fast, and tough LB in the NFL of today, where they have to take on 330+ LB blockers the size of mountains, plug the holes in the run defense, be able to pass rush and cover sideline to sideline. Four players rolled into one.

On the Jax side, their offense suffers at the hands of Bortles. Man, that guy was lousy yesterday.


The problem I saw for both was that their QBs were jittery and couldn't hit basic throws. Bortles was throwing screen passes three feet short of their targets. I wouldn't be surprised if Buffalo traded its 2 first round picks to move and get a QB. They seem primed for a Miami like step backwards so may as well get a young guy in there and buy him some weapons in free agency.

Jax needs a good vet QB and they may be set for a few years in terms of making the playoffs.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:45 pm 
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Alex Smith on the Jaguars makes more and more sense the more I think about it. Matches his skill set.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:45 pm 
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Jacksonville would be scary good with QB and with a old school guy like Coughlin running the show they are going to sign one of these proven vet QBs who will be leaving their current team. He seems to be on a mission.

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