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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:00 am 
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Last offseason, Landry was hailed as the poster child of the franchise, the embodiment of the player Gase wanted here in Miami. A guy that loved football and fought for inch of the field. Now, he's the poster child of what went wrong for this season.

When you look at a team that has failed, you look at stats, you look at the film trying to diagnose the reason for your failure. Stats don't always tell the tale, usually it's some weird stat that points to the problem. The narrative should come from game film, but even that's hard to diagnose at times. For me it would be easy to blame our OL for most of our problems, but in a fit of objectivity, I ignored that. Our penalties for last year and this one really caught my eye.

Before Gase came, we had a dictator for a coach. A true disciplinarian who didn't allow players to stray from the game plan. A coach that didn't want leaders on the team, only mindless robots that obeyed him. We bring in Gas, a player's coach, a guy that wants fiery passionate players. It's normal for a team of players to suddenly make this huge swing from playing tight and disciplined, to going crazy. Repressed emotion leads to explosions of passion, which results in a breakdown of discipline, which equals penalties. That explosion last year is one good reason why we won 10 games. Players that had been restrained were suddenly unleashed from tyranny and as a result you saw a different player each week explode and help us win. But unleashed emotion that you don't try to restrain and harness will always come back to haunt you. Once you open Pandora's box, it's really hard to close it.

I know a lot of fans love Landry, love his passion, his will to fight for extra yards. But those have come at a cost. Penalties, fumbles. A player who sometimes looked lost out this year, a player rumored not to know the playbook. And he's not a player I would say that's giving all this passion to help us win, but to be a dominate WR in this league. He cares more about yards and TD's than he does about the team winning.

I won't be sad to see him go, he's easy to replace for a cheaper price in the slot. The huge worry is that Parker doesn't pan out, meaning we have no #1 WR.

To me, this would actually signal Gase is getting smarter and now knows he needs smart players that love football, not mental basket cases using passion to overcome a lack of brawn.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:11 am 
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I think Landry is an easy target and stands out negatively mostly because of the garbage team we have...no offensive line, no QB, no imaginative play book, no imaginative play calling, losing all the time.....we haven't had a productive, consistent offense here for years, if we did, with other players sharing the spotlight Landry wouldn't be such a sore thumb, sticking out for all to see....yeah, I detest his me-me mentality, the repeated unsportsmanlike penalties, the pushing and shoving with opponent DBs after what seems like every 3 yard catch....but that stands out because the rest of the offense sucks.

Based on net production and his irresponsible behavior it would appear he would be easy to replace and that may be true on most other teams, teams with a more sound structure, better personnel, but here, today, that would be a mistake....we have the worst talent evaluators probably in the league, a clueless owner who prefers to leave well enough alone, an overrated head coach who often behaves like he invented football, and all that would be first on my list to replace but not Landry.

We have to ask, how much of his behavior is Gase's responsibility? I would have benched Landry's butt that day when he yelled back at the sideline....Gase appears to be a push over while sometimes talking tough.

Anyway, I would not commit a long term contract and just sign him to the franchise tag, wait one year with Tannehill back, and see if Gase can actually call an offense, and see if we are more productive then ask how did Landry fit in.....don't let him go just yet.....we've lost too many good players due to the poor decision making at the top and I can guarantee you even with his limited production, this front office could not find a replacement and we sure as heck don't have it on the roster today....Parker is a mistake and Stills is somewhere in there, mostly invisible in this offense.

It would seem easy to let him walk, but you and I can do that...these guys at the top are supposed to know better and be able to see the forest for the trees.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:28 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:40 am 
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Parker is a mistake and Stills is somewhere in there, mostly invisible in this offense.




It's everybody else


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:42 am 
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carreramia wrote:
.We have to ask, how much of his behavior is Gase's responsibility? I would have benched Landry's butt that day when he yelled back at the sideline....Gase appears to be a push over while sometimes talking tough.


This is a really good question.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:50 am 
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wait one year with Tannehill back, and see if Gase can actually call an offense, and see if we are more productive then ask how did Landry fit in


Hopefully, the production gets spread out when Tannehill comes back. Still became lost this year because Cutler couldn't throw deep very well. And you don't want to throw jump balls every time you throw to Parker. They're not efficient and will get him hurt more often.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:08 am 
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carreramia wrote:
Anyway, I would not commit a long term contract and just sign him to the franchise tag, wait one year with Tannehill back, and see if Gase can actually call an offense, and see if we are more productive then ask how did Landry fit in.....don't let him go just yet.....we've lost too many good players due to the poor decision making at the top and I can guarantee you even with his limited production, this front office could not find a replacement and we sure as heck don't have it on the roster today....


Since Gase tried to trade him at the trade deadline, and since he doesn't seem to like his lack of discipline, then franchising him would be the wise thing to do. Then he can negotiate a trade if he wants or pay him at the top 5 of WRs as a franchise tag requires (which I think he deserves). The franchise tag would give Gase a year of flexibility.

Personally, I would like to sign him long term, but we have a habit of giving strong talented personalities the boot.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:19 am 
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I'm not hearing that they want Landry back.

Armando Salguero wrote:
And Wednesday’s press conference made that clear because I saw head coach Adam Gase, general manager Chris Grier and executive vice president Mike Tannenbaum basically stiff-arm the idea that Landry will definitely be on the team in 2018.

Grier lumped Landry in with several players the personnel department has to discuss in the coming weeks. Tannenbaum, asked specifically about Landry, brought up the idea that the salary cap doesn’t allow the team to keep everyone.

And Gase talked about how “embarrassing” it was for him to see Landry have one of his patented post-catch fits of rage that led the receiver and teammate Kenyan Drake to be ejected from Sunday’s game.

“I think that was the pinnacle of what I’ve ever seen with him during a game,” Gase said, comparing this flare-up with Landry’s other almost chronic in-game outbursts. “I know there’s been times some of those guys got in the mix a little bit. But I don’t think I’ve ever seen it get to the level where it was extremely bad.

Gase was asked if the Dolphins would take that episode into account when deciding how to deal with Landry and his agent this off-season.

“I think you can’t take one isolated incident and overreact, but at the same time we have to make sure we look at everything that we’ve been doing over the last couple of years and really that’s where our decisions are made,” the coach answered. “We look at the body of work and see what direction we want to go in.”


Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-c ... rylink=cpy


What is Landry's worth?

Dave Hyde wrote:
The highest-paid slot receiver right now is Seattle’s Doug Baldwin, who signed a four-year, $46 million deal last off-season ($12 million guaranteed). That’s under $12M a year. Landry evidently wants $14M a year. That’s No. 1 receiver money. He’s not a No. 1 receiver. The question is do the Dolphins have to overpay to keep a good talent? Yep. Will they? I’d bet they will and all his ejection is used as a talking point to get him to say he’ll do better. It doesn’t mean he will. But the Dolphins can then bring up his promise if he goes crazy again. Stay tuned.


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/dave ... story.html

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:22 pm 
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What is Landry's worth?

Dave Hyde wrote:
The highest-paid slot receiver right now is Seattle’s Doug Baldwin, who signed a four-year, $46 million deal last off-season ($12 million guaranteed). That’s under $12M a year. Landry evidently wants $14M a year. That’s No. 1 receiver money. He’s not a No. 1 receiver. The question is do the Dolphins have to overpay to keep a good talent? Yep. Will they? I’d bet they will and all his ejection is used as a talking point to get him to say he’ll do better. It doesn’t mean he will. But the Dolphins can then bring up his promise if he goes crazy again. Stay tuned.


Has there ever been a contract that stipulated if a player got X number of personal fouls that he paid the team money back? In my opinion Miami needs some sort of way to make sure he keeps his emotions in check.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:24 pm 
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He's not a number one receiver? The guy led the NFL in receptions.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:22 pm 
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Kev1321 wrote:
He's not a number one receiver? The guy led the NFL in receptions.


You or me can stand out there and catch 1000 bubble passes for 0 yards and we would lead the world in receptions.....and it would mean zero, nada.

If this team ever develops some kind of NFL level offensive line and an NFL level offensive play book, maybe Landry, instead of his typical 2 or 3 yards, has time to go downfield say, oh, seven, eight yards before the QB is killed, and then maybe he averages near ten yards a catch or more, you know he has YACs and he'll get open and will catch the ball.....


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:48 pm 
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He averaged 8.8 ypc. Those are not WR#1 numbers at all.

Davone Bess averaged 10.5 ypc over his career........


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:58 am 
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I've never used the label "no. 1 receiver", that's up there with "diva"....these labels don't mean anything. He's one of five eligible receivers, he's a guy that gets open, fights for yards, and will make the clutch catch. If we want to put labels on things, ok, on this team, this lousy talented team, he's a no. 1 but only because he's the best we've got....is it his fault that this team has had no QB for close to 20 years? Is it his fault that this head coach and front office can't produce the elements necessary for a downfield passing game? I guarantee you if we had an offensive line, a running game and a half way decent QB Landry would not be in this argument.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:17 am 
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Last year Landry averaged 12.1 YPC. Just to get ahead of a certain argument, in his final 3 games he averaged 36, 9.7 and 8.4 On that 36 average he had 3 catches for 108 yards, one of those being a quick slant that he broke tackles and took down field for 66 yards (perspective).

His big drop this year came because Cutler couldn't throw down field and defenses knew it. Shrunk the field and made things predictable. Moore simply wasn't accurate when called upon to start. If you watch all of Moore's drop backs from last year you'll see he benefited a lot (both TDs and yardage) from short throws where the receiver did the work afterward. Gase knew this and that is why he wasn't comfortable going with Moore when Tannehill went down.

There is a flipside to this coin as well. Tannehill is clearly the best option currently on the roster and will do better in 2018 than any rookie option. If there is a trade option or surprising free agent option then things could change (saying that so this thread doesn't go off the rails). With that said, Landry makes tough catches in tight windows that help prop up what Tannehill does. The film clearly shows that. The offense will suffer if he leaves and is not adequately replaced.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:38 am 
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His big drop this year came because Cutler couldn't throw down field and defenses knew it. Shrunk the field and made things predictable. Moore simply wasn't accurate when called upon to start.


I wouldn't deny this, but I'm looking at what 12-16 million needs to buy us. For me that's a wr that can break open games even when drawing double coverage, like Antonio Brown. That's not Landry. He's the complimentary wr that isn't going to get open unless he's single covered, and he's never really going to break open a game for us. That's worth 8 million to me (Like we're paying Stills.)

Of course we could make it incentive laden. 8 million base. 2 million if you don't cause any delay of game penalties because you didn't know the play. 4 million if you have 4 penalties or less called on you for the season.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:58 pm 
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Zatrex, I was looking at your FA list in another thread and Kendall Wright could be a replacement target for a cheap price (if Dowell Loggains vouches for him).

I don't disagree about giving Landry insane money, but I wouldn't balk at $11-12 million. He does more than a typical slot guy and is about as good as anyone with YAC. Its also about the chemistry. If they are rolling with Tannehill then why take away his preferred target? Unless they've been grooming Carroo to step in and just told him to be patient this year.

Its tough to tell if this team has building blocks or if they are trying to both win next year and build for the future. It wouldn't surprise me if Ross said to them he's done spending money on redoing things aka win with the squad you wanted. If you can't we hit the reset button.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:19 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Zatrex, I was looking at your FA list in another thread and Kendall Wright could be a replacement target for a cheap price (if Dowell Loggains vouches for him).

He's definitely a thought.

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I don't disagree about giving Landry insane money, but I wouldn't balk at $11-12 million. He does more than a typical slot guy and is about as good as anyone with YAC.

I'm almost okay with that, except there's another player I covet. He's a headcase too, you'd just get more bang for lesser bucks. See my new thread, I'm challenging you to do the same.

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Its also about the chemistry. If they are rolling with Tannehill then why take away his preferred target? Unless they've been grooming Carroo to step in and just told him to be patient this year.
That one I'm not biting on. Tannehill's went through a bunch of WR's and other than Wallace, had no chemistry problems with them.

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Its tough to tell if this team has building blocks or if they are trying to both win next year and build for the future. It wouldn't surprise me if Ross said to them he's done spending money on redoing things aka win with the squad you wanted. If you can't we hit the reset button.


You're not kidding. See my other thread. I've been trying to see things through their eyes, but the things they claim and then do make it hard to see what they're trying to do.


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