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 Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF? 

Should Zach Thomas be inducted into the HoF?
Yes 96%  96%  [ 22 ]
No 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 23

 Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF? 
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Post Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
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es former Miami Dolphins middle linebacker Zach Thomas belong in the NFL Hall of Fame? If you were to ask most Miami Dolphins fans the answer is yes, most certainly YES! Unfortunately for you and me and the rest of us that make up Dolphins Nation, we do not get to vote on who gets in and who does not. My mind set is that if a guy is a shoe in for your ring of honor then he should at least get strong national consideration for the HOF.

Zach's long time defensive teammate, best friend and brother in law, former Dolphins defensive end and linebacker Jason Taylor is a shoe in or at least that's the common belief among Dolphins fans. Luckily for us most of the national media seems to agree with Dolphins Nation. Most national media members, when asked agree that Taylor has put together a HOF resume' based solely on his stats with special emphasis on his 139.5 career sacks placing him 6th all time.

When I go looking for opinions on Zach's career many of the same writers that love the idea of JT in the HOF do not find Thomas' career likewise HOF worthy. Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette says "Unless a guy is obvious, like Troy Aikman or Dan Marino" he goes on to say "My initial reaction? Zach Thomas just doesn't jump out at me as a Hall of Famer". John McClain of the Houston Chronicle said "I've watched him since he was at Texas Tech. When I think of Dick Butkus or Ray Nitschke and Jack Lambert as the greatest inside linebackers in history, then, no, Zach doesn't belong."

To the average Dolphins fan Zach is, was and always will be "The Man". The guy that the Dolphins drafted in the 5th round of the 1996 NFL draft who was "too small and too slow" to actually play linebacker in the NFL. Of course this was the same thing that he was told coming out of high school and wanting to play at the college level where he was left with being a walk on for his local college, Texas Tech. He went on to be a 3 year starter and a finalist for the Butkus award, a unanimous 1st team All-American and Southwest Conference Defensive Player of the Year in his Senior season.

Despite Zach's pedestrian numbers at the 1996 NFL combine, then Dolphins head coach Jimmy Johnson took a chance on him in the 5th round of that same year's NFL draft because "All he did when I looked at tape of him was make plays!". Many draft analyst questioned Miami "wasting" a draft pick on a player that was not likely to ever start in the NFL. By the end of what was just Thomas' first NFL pre-season game Jimmy Johnson knew that what he had was his starting middle linebacker of the future, prompting him to cut longtime NFL linebacker Jack Del Rio.

All Zach Thomas managed to do in his 13 year NFL career was go to the Pro Bowl 7 times, make First-team All-Pro 5 times, Second-team All-Pro twice and was named NFL Alumni Linebacker of the Yr in both 1998 and 2006, named NFL Defensive Rookie of the Month in Oct. 1996, named All-Rookie selection by College and Pro Football Newsweekly/The Football News/Pro Football Weekly & Pro Football Writers of America, AFC Defensive Rookie of the Yr, Dolphins 1996 Unsung Hero Award as selected by NFLPA, Newcomer of the Yr by S. Florida media, 2 time Dolphins MVP by S. Florida media, AFC Defensive Player of the Month Sept. 1998, 1998 All-Madden team, 3 time Dolphins' Leadership Award, 3 time AFC Defensive Player of the Wk and has more tackles than any linebacker currently inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

With that in mind I decided to take a look at some of his contemporaries and compare their stats to those of Zach's for his career. By contemporaries I mean other middle linebackers that played more or less at the same time as Zach Thomas and also at a very high level. Below you will see the comparisons. Given that a couple of the others on this list are shoe-ins for the NFL Hall Of Fame what do you think are Zach's chances and do you think he deserves to be inducted with all the other greatest players to ever play the game?


YRS SK/AV INT/AV TD's/AV PD/AV FF/AV FR/AV TD's/AV TKL/AV
Zach Thomas 13 20.5/1.58 17/1.31 4/0.31 38/2.92 16/1.23 8/0.62 0/0 1727/132.85
Ray Lewis 17 41.5/2.44 31/1.82 3/0.18 81/4.76 19/1.12 20/1.18 0/0 2055/120.88
Junior Seau 20 56.5/2.82 18/0.9 0/0 23/1.15 11/0.55 18/0.9 1/0.05 1846/92.3
Brian Urlacher 13 41.5/3.19 22/1.69 2/0.15 85/6.54 11/0.85 15/1.15 2/0.15 1354/104.15
James Farrior 15 35.5/2.37 11/0.73 1/0.07 61/4.07 18/1.20 12/0.8 0/0 1412/94.13
London Fletcher 16 39/2.44 23/1.44 2/0.125 87/5.44 19/1.19 12/0.75 1/0.06 2031/126.93
Tedy Bruschi 13 30.5/2.35 12/0.92 4/0.31 44/3.38 17/1.31 7/0.54 0/0 1063/81.76
YRS=years played; SK=sacks; INT=interceptions; TD's=touchdowns; PD=passes defended; FF=forced fumbles; FR=fumble recoveries; TKL=tackles; AV=yearly average for each year played.


http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/6/29/5 ... ll-of-fame

What do you think...does ZT deserve HoF recognition?

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Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:55 pm
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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
I've recently visited this same topic and compared zach,s career to other middle backers and i think he deserves it.


Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:20 pm
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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Why wouldnt he?


Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:25 pm
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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Yes, one of the criteria that is considered for the HoF is how good was he in his era, Zach was the 2nd best MLB in the league for about a decade, that alone should get him in, probably not a first ballot but he did enough to earn the HoF.

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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Screw stats man - Zach had some of the best pure instincts in any football player I've ever seen. Watching that highlight video gave me chills. The dude was a fearless player, he could literally wrap up any opposing player no matter the size. The hit on Bettis in that video says it all.

If you asked me to choose a MLB for my team, it'd be Zach every day of the week.


Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:28 am
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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
IamPZ wrote:
Screw stats man - Zach had some of the best pure instincts in any football player I've ever seen. Watching that highlight video gave me chills. The dude was a fearless player, he could literally wrap up any opposing player no matter the size. The hit on Bettis in that video says it all.

If you asked me to choose a MLB for my team, it'd be Zach every day of the week.


This is really strange...the majority of the people over at FinHeaven talked $#&% about him him and said he didn't deserve it...Most of them were saying how he disappeared and was almost a liability in big games (same with JT)...I'm right with you even though I wasn't able to witness the most part of his career. His stats, and film definitely pop out at you though.

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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
I think somebody here recently said the same thing about Zach, that he wasn't clutch. LOL


Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:36 am
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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
swerve13 wrote:
I think somebody here recently said the same thing about Zach, that he wasn't clutch. LOL

Probably me. Zach belongs in the Miami Dolphins Ring of Honor, but not the HOF. However, the NFL HOF is watered down. Zach made tackles. Rarely made game changing plays and when he had the chance. More times than not, he failed. The D he was the leader of could not hold a lead at the end of the game. I hate to diss him, but the facts are there.


Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:38 pm
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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Dphins4me wrote:
Probably me. Zach belongs in the Miami Dolphins Ring of Honor, but not the HOF. However, the NFL HOF is watered down. Zach made tackles. Rarely made game changing plays and when he had the chance. More times than not, he failed. The D he was the leader of could not hold a lead at the end of the game. I hate to diss him, but the facts are there.


I don't know how to statistically argue this, but my memory of Zach is very different than that. I recall him putting up heroic efforts in losing causes. It's not just that he made tackles, it's how he anticipated. How he was always around the ball. How he was relentless. No, he didn't have a ton of sacks; that wasn't really his job. The D he was the leader of did fail at times. Should that be pinned on him specifically? How do you back that up, other than your perception of the past being different than mine? He was a great player. I'll let the committee decide if he's HOF worthy, but he gets my vote.


Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:42 pm
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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Zach and JT were complimented by atrocious offenses.


Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:10 am
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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
k-dash wrote:

I don't know how to statistically argue this, but my memory of Zach is very different than that. I recall him putting up heroic efforts in losing causes. It's not just that he made tackles, it's how he anticipated. How he was always around the ball. How he was relentless.
While good, not HOF material. IMO

k-dash wrote:
No, he didn't have a ton of sacks; that wasn't really his job. The D he was the leader of did fail at times.
Generally if the game was on the line and the D was on the field. They failed.

k-dash wrote:
Should that be pinned on him specifically? How do you back that up, other than your perception of the past being different than mine? He was a great player.
My perception is not clouded by my love of the Phins.

k-dash wrote:
I'll let the committee decide if he's HOF worthy, but he gets my vote.

Would he get it if he had not been a Phin? If he had played for the Pats would you think the same way?


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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
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Generally if the game was on the line and the D was on the field. They failed.


This is a ridiculous statement that has no backing to it, the offense was the problem.

Quote:
My perception is not clouded by my love of the Phins.


It is however clouded by something.

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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Dphins4me wrote:
Zach made tackles. Rarely made game changing plays and when he had the chance. More times than not, he failed.


I'm sure you have empirical evidence to back up this statement...?

Quote:
The D he was the leader of could not hold a lead at the end of the game.


The Dolphins won a lot of games while Zach Thomas was the middle linebacker. They also had a top defense almost every year. I am sure at least a few of those wins were caused by the defene holding a lead late in the game. There is no possible way over all of those years that the defense never held a lead to win one of the games, especially with how bad our offenses were.

Quote:
I hate to diss him, but the facts are there.


Where?

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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
8 out of Zach Thomas's first 10 years in the NFL (1996-2006) (2007 his final year with fins he barely played due to injuries), the Miami Dolphins defense was ranked in the top ten and 5 times in the top 5 of in the NFL and the team had 8 winning season records during his time playing. 20 career sacks;8 fumble recoveries; 17 career interceptions and 4 touchdown's returned for scores.

14 Dolphin fans voted and ONLY 1 said no to him going into the HOF. There is always that one in the bunch!! :haha


Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:44 am
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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Finhead34 wrote:
8 out of Zach Thomas's first 10 years in the NFL (1996-2006) (2007 his final year with fins he barely played due to injuries), the Miami Dolphins defense was ranked in the top ten and 5 times in the top 5 of in the NFL and the team had 8 winning season records during his time playing. 20 career sacks;8 fumble recoveries; 17 career interceptions and 4 touchdown's returned for scores.

14 Dolphin fans voted and ONLY 1 said no to him going into the HOF. There is always that one in the bunch!! :haha


All those facts are clouded by your love of the Phins.


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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Same guy thinks Dan Marino couldn't win big games.


Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:47 am
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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Question for the doubters. What is a Middle linebackers primary job?
Answer: Plug the middle and MAKE TACKLES!!!!
And according to the chart he averaged more than any other Middle Linebacker, so to me he should get in first ballet.

Now Dolphins4me, show me your stats that he did not come through in the clutch, show me more than say 10 plays over his 13 years where he missed a clutch play all by himself that was the reason for the Dolphins to lose the game.

You don't go to 7 pro bowls if you are not clutch.

:jests:


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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Finster wrote:
This is a ridiculous statement that has no backing to it, the offense was the problem.
That is factual statement. Miami lost games when the D was on the field with the lead/tied and the opposing team having the ball needing a stop to win the game. I know one yr they were 2-3 or 2-4 in those type games. The only reason there is a 2 up there is Denver scored with under a minute to go and the O was able to get in field goal position.


Finster wrote:
It is however clouded by something.
Just an honest opinion. If Zach played for the Pats then you would be laughing at HOF talk.


Last edited by Dphins4me on Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:47 pm
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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Rich wrote:
The Dolphins won a lot of games while Zach Thomas was the middle linebacker. They also had a top defense almost every year. I am sure at least a few of those wins were caused by the defene holding a lead late in the game. There is no possible way over all of those years that the defense never held a lead to win one of the games, especially with how bad our offenses were.

Never? Not worth discussing.

Rich wrote:
Where?
The internet / old game tapes


Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:50 pm
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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
AFCMiamiEast wrote:
What do you think...does ZT deserve HoF recognition?


Yes! :grin:


Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:53 pm
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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Sailor wrote:
Question for the doubters. What is a Middle linebackers primary job?
Answer: Plug the middle and MAKE TACKLES!!!!
And according to the chart he averaged more than any other Middle Linebacker, so to me he should get in first ballet.
Mark it down. He will not be a first ballet HOFer, but I think he gets in with time. The NFL requires at least 4 players each yr so in a weak yr he will make it, unlike baseball where they may have 1 or none.

Doesn't it matter where those tackles are made? Meaning is there a difference between a tackle made at the line or scrimmage against a tackle made 5 yds down field? So without those type stats just seeing a tackle does not mean quality work. Not attaching this to Zach, just asking your opinion on a tackle.

Sailor wrote:
Now Dolphins4me, show me your stats that he did not come through in the clutch, show me more than say 10 plays over his 13 years where he missed a clutch play all by himself that was the reason for the Dolphins to lose the game.
Show my stats? What do think I sit with a note pad & pen watching game & store it away for 10 yrs in hopes of winning a discussion on the internet one day?

I have watched every Phins game since '97. I saw what I saw. I recall what I recall. Miami's D being solid but struggling to close out game when they are close. They struggled to get that done far more than they should have. However, this is the games that most stands out in my mind.

Zach hit him behind the LS. If Zach makes that play then Miami makes the playoffs in 2002.

2:07 4th & 2 MIA 45 Daunte Culpepper up the middle for 3 yards (tackle by Zach Thomas and Derrick Rodgers)

Lets not forget that 62-7 playoff loss. Can't blame that game on the O. Miami was down 17-0 before the end of the 1st Qtr. I recall Fred Taylor going 90 Yds because Zach took a bad angle & did not have the closing speed to get there & ended up being tripped by his teammate.

I cannot believe you guys are failing to recall all the post game comments from Zach of how they came up short. ( AGAIN )


Sailor wrote:
You don't go to 7 pro bowls if you are not clutch.
You can go to 7 PBs and be between good & great. Consider there are times players do not make the trip and the next guy gets to go.

I give you Bob Kuechenberg..6 time PB. On top of that he was an All-Pro at guard and tackle. Was a key part of one of the best running games in NFL history. 2 SB wins. Yet he is still not in the HOF.

I like Zach, but IMO he was just a good solid MLBer. I think Zach was better early in his career. Before 2002.


Last edited by Dphins4me on Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:13 am, edited 2 times in total.



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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Dphins4me: How sad is it as Dolphin fans that we would love to have back those 10-11 win years that Dave Wannstedt had and that everyone also ridiculed back when he was the HC.

I also have not missed watching a game period since 1991 and although I was certainly frustrated watching Miami win 10-11 games and go no where in the playoffs, it is hard to believe what this team turned into during Wanny's last season that was cut short until now.

Besides 2008 the flash in the pan year, it has been miserable. I hope somehow, some way this year starts a new trend of winning, but I just stay skeptical with Philbin leading the way.

I would love to have back Zach Thomas and those top ten defenses or better that the Dolphins boasted back then, but again, I remember being frustrated because they couldn't really win the big games.....now we see perennial losing years altogether.


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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Finhead34 wrote:
Dphins4me: How sad is it as Dolphin fans that we would love to have back those 10-11 win years that Dave Wannstedt had and that everyone also ridiculed back when he was the HC.
Yeap, but can you imagine if Miami had a coach then who knew something other than hand the ball off to RW.

Finhead34 wrote:
I also have not missed watching a game period since 1991 and although I was certainly frustrated watching Miami win 10-11 games and go no where in the playoffs, it is hard to believe what this team turned into during Wanny's last season that was cut short until now.

Besides 2008 the flash in the pan year, it has been miserable. I hope somehow, some way this year starts a new trend of winning, but I just stay skeptical with Philbin leading the way.
I call it the curse of Shula.

The way they forced him into retirement ( Not that it was not time ) but that way it went down with JJ has always not sat well with me. JJ came in thinking he was all that, because he caught lighting in a bottle in Dallas. He found out that it hard to catch it twice and he was not as good of a drafter as he thought he was. The predraft trade down in 1998 that cost Miami the chance to draft Moss still hurts. The Yatil Green pick. Imagine had he stayed healthy & Miami still drafted Moss.

Finhead34 wrote:
I would love to have back Zach Thomas and those top ten defenses or better that the Dolphins boasted back then, but again, I remember being frustrated because they couldn't really win the big games.....now we see perennial losing years altogether.
I know. Would love to have him back as well.


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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
For the better part of Zach's career he played on a team that had a hard time moving the ball when they weren't turning it over, the ONLY reason we were a good team was the D, it's complete nonsense to blame Zach for losses the TEAM suffered, losses they suffered because of lousy offense, I can't remember how many times we would have a lead late only to have the O turn the ball over and now they have the ball on our 30 yardline and all they need is a FG, yea, lets blame Zach for that, that makes sense.

Zach Thomas is the only LB in history to be blamed for his team not being better, insanity.

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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Finster wrote:
For the better part of Zach's career he played on a team that had a hard time moving the ball when they weren't turning it over, the ONLY reason we were a good team was the D, it's complete nonsense to blame Zach for losses the TEAM suffered, losses they suffered because of lousy offense.
I agree the O was lousy. However, lousy O or not. Game on the line with lead and the D on the field. Its not the O that failed at that point of the game. As a whole, then yes. However at that point of the game it is on the D to win it. If the score is 13-10 with 2 minutes to go & the D allows a TD. The D failed at the most critical time of the game. Is it all Zach's fault? No, but he was on the D that failed. I personally do not believe he inspired the players around him to be better than they actually were. That is what D leaders do. IMO.

Finster wrote:
I can't remember how many times we would have a lead late only to have the O turn the ball over and now they have the ball on our 30 yardline and all they need is a FG, yea, lets blame Zach for that, that makes sense.
I'm not speaking to those games, which I do not recall many of those. I'm speaking where the team moves the ball 50+ Yrds into FG range or worse scores a TD.

Finster wrote:
Zach Thomas is the only LB in history to be blamed for his team not being better, insanity.

Who is blaming Zach for the team not being good? You guys are putting a very good MLB up on a pedestal because Miami had little to cheer for the last 20 yrs.


Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:32 am
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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Quote:
You guys are putting a very good MLB


Scott, I happen to agree with you on this line as Zach Thomas was a "very good" Linebacker and definitely had all those hard nosed Ditka style attributes, but does he belong as an ALL-TIME GREAT LB?

I think Ring of Honor deserving in Miami as he is for sure and borderline HOF he may get in because the rules of letting guys in allow a diversity of a slew of different "types" of players to make the HOF and that is where I believe has the chance because he played the game hard and with full dedication and heart along with some pretty decent stats.

Was he as game changing and sometimes dominating as Ray Lewis or Junior Seau or Mike Singletary in their prime? No, I don't believe he was, but he was a VERY good NFL LB.


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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Finhead34 wrote:
Dphins4me: How sad is it as Dolphin fans that we would love to have back those 10-11 win years that Dave Wannstedt had and that everyone also ridiculed back when he was the HC.

I also have not missed watching a game period since 1991 and although I was certainly frustrated watching Miami win 10-11 games and go no where in the playoffs, it is hard to believe what this team turned into during Wanny's last season that was cut short until now.

Besides 2008 the flash in the pan year, it has been miserable. I hope somehow, some way this year starts a new trend of winning, but I just stay skeptical with Philbin leading the way.

I would love to have back Zach Thomas and those top ten defenses or better that the Dolphins boasted back then, but again, I remember being frustrated because they couldn't really win the big games.....now we see perennial losing years altogether.


Good Post Finhead .... also what gets overlooked is that Fiedler did pretty good replacing a legend and that is pretty hard. Much like the the QB after Tannehill will have to endure as well.

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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Finhead34 wrote:

Scott, I happen to agree with you on this line as Zach Thomas was a "very good" Linebacker and definitely had all those hard nosed Ditka style attributes, but does he belong as an ALL-TIME GREAT LB?

I think Ring of Honor deserving in Miami as he is for sure and borderline HOF he may get in because the rules of letting guys in allow a diversity of a slew of different "types" of players to make the HOF and that is where I believe has the chance because he played the game hard and with full dedication and heart along with some pretty decent stats.

Was he as game changing and sometimes dominating as Ray Lewis or Junior Seau or Mike Singletary in their prime? No, I don't believe he was, but he was a VERY good NFL LB.
Agree, but tread lightly with those comments. If some believe ZT is a 10 ( HOF Lock ) then I'm dog meat because I rank him more of an 8 to 8.5. By simply not agreeing that ZT is the most wonderful MLB to ever play football (sarcasm ).

I think Miami would have been a better team had they drafted Lewis instead of Gardener back in '96. I just believe Lewis inspired the players around him to reach another level. Balt. D was unbelievable for yrs while the players around Lewis changed out. It goes beyond the stat line. His D lead team was the only reason Balt. won the SB back in '00.


Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:08 am
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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Dphins4me wrote:
I think Miami would have been a better team had they drafted Lewis instead of Gardener back in '96. I just believe Lewis inspired the players around him to reach another level. Balt. D was unbelievable for yrs while the players around Lewis changed out. It goes beyond the stat line. His D lead team was the only reason Balt. won the SB back in '00.


Zach had perhaps the best instincts of any linebacker that I've seen, and he never stopped until the play was over. He was a tackling machine and could convert interceptions into touchdowns. Analysts always underestimated Zach because of his size. I think Zach belongs in the HOF, but without a Super Bowl appearance it makes it difficult for him.

That being said, Ray Lewis had the physical tools for the position. Lewis is a "lock" for the Super Bowl. He was unbelievable.

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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
When NFL HoF players are judged they are judged on how good they were in their era, not greatest of all time, MLB and NFL HoFs are set up a bit differently in this regard.

So Zach doesn't have to be in the running for best all time MLB, just was he one of the greatest of his era, he was imo, the #2 ILB/MLB in the NFL for about 10 years, 2nd only to Ray Lewis, this would be the reason he gets in imo, he was a top elite player at his position for about a decade.

I do agree with the idea that he is a borderline HoFer, imo he is just over the line and it does have a lot to do with the era you play in, if their were 2 other LBs that I could put in front of him in his era then he wouldn't be a HoFer imo.

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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
If Derrick Brooks is good enough for the HOF, so is Zach.


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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
swerve13 wrote:
If Derrick Brooks is good enough for the HOF, so is Zach.
I see a huge gap between those two.
5 more PB & a was a leader of a dominate D that won the SB.

Brooks lead D was the single almost sole reason TB won the SB. There is the difference between the two.

Stat wise they may be similar, but HOF should go beyond simple stats. Zach just could not put the team on his back. Lets face it. Neither Balt. nor TB had great O's the yr they won the SB.


Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:36 pm
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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
The Bucs won that Super Bowl because of Gruden, no other reason. He got to play the team that he built and dummy Callahan never changed the verbiage and signals so Gruden knew exactly what they were gonna do every play. Even John Lynch admitted that too the media right after the win. That Raider team was loaded and 4 point favorites going into that game and magically got blown out.

"Gannon said he believes the fact that the Raiders didn't change the verbiage on offensive calls that Gruden installed for the team big factor in Oakland's loss.

"So much of our verbiage and terminology was a carryover from what Jon Gruden had installed in terms of our run checks, and so we were calling certain plays and guys like Warren Sapp and Derrick Brooks were calling out the runs. So it kind of took us out of our no-huddle plan at the line of scrimmage," Gannon said in the interview."


Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:13 pm
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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
swerve13 wrote:
The Bucs won that Super Bowl because of Gruden, no other reason. He got to play the team that he built and dummy Callahan never changed the verbiage and signals so Gruden knew exactly what they were gonna do every play. Even John Lynch admitted that too the media right after the win. That Raider team was loaded and 4 point favorites going into that game and magically got blown out.

]Gannon said he believes the fact that the Raiders didn't change the verbiage on offensive calls that Gruden installed for the team big factor in Oakland's loss.

"So much of our verbiage and terminology was a carryover from what Jon Gruden had installed in terms of our run checks, and so we were calling certain plays and guys like Warren Sapp and Derrick Brooks were calling out the runs. So it kind of took us out of our no-huddle plan at the line of scrimmage," Gannon said in the interview.

Knowing Oakland signals did not assist in helping Tampa get there.. 9 games of 10 or fewer points. 2 of 3 games in the playoffs of 10 or fewer.

Journeyman Michael Pittman was their leading rusher. 30 yr old Keyshawn & 32 yr of McCardell were there best Wr.

Plus lets not discount the Barrett Robbins situation effect on the Raiders.


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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Dphins4me wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
I think somebody here recently said the same thing about Zach, that he wasn't clutch. LOL

Probably me. Zach belongs in the Miami Dolphins Ring of Honor, but not the HOF. However, the NFL HOF is watered down. Zach made tackles. Rarely made game changing plays and when he had the chance. More times than not, he failed. The D he was the leader of could not hold a lead at the end of the game. I hate to diss him, but the facts are there.


Do you have stats to back that up? I remember ZT having some of the worst offenses. The few times the offense was even close to middle of pack, the team made the playoffs mostly due to ZT and Taylor.


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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Dphins4me wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
If Derrick Brooks is good enough for the HOF, so is Zach.
I see a huge gap between those two.
5 more PB & a was a leader of a dominate D that won the SB.

Brooks lead D was the single almost sole reason TB won the SB. There is the difference between the two.

Stat wise they may be similar, but HOF should go beyond simple stats. Zach just could not put the team on his back. Lets face it. Neither Balt. nor TB had great O's the yr they won the SB.


...and there's no question those teams had better personnel on defense to compliment Brooks and Lewis. Baltimore won based on a decent running game and the ability to hit the deep ball with enough frequency to keep the defense honest. People that disparage ZT, just don't know football....and I'm wearing my surprised look that you're on the wrong side ...again.


Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:24 am
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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
NFLJunkie wrote:
...and there's no question those teams had better personnel on defense to compliment Brooks and Lewis..
Miami had Surtain, Madison, Marion, plus run stuffing DT in Bowen, Gardner, Traylor up front. Armstong/OGun on the end of Taylor. I do not believe that Balt or Tampa had that much better talent around them.

NFLJunkie wrote:
.
Baltimore won based on a decent running game and the ability to hit the deep ball with enough frequency to keep the defense honest.

That is why they went 5 straight games without a TD.. Because they could hit the deep pass. :hithead:

Balt. Rank on O that yr was 14th in Pts. & 16 in Yds. Pretty much a Miami style O.

NFLJunkie wrote:
People that disparage ZT, just don't know football....
Or the people that believe Zach is one of the best MLB in the history of the NFL are simply overzealous Miami fans who had nothing to cheer for during his playing days. IMO Zach was one of the best from 96-99. After that I believe he was just a good MLB.

NFLJunkie wrote:
and I'm wearing my surprised look that you're on the wrong side ...again.

Lets get personal, personal. I want to get personal. Lets get into personal. You can always tell who believes their argument is weak. They get personal, because they want to distract from the discussion.

Noticed you failed to address Kooch not being in there & if Kooch is not worthy of the HOF, then how can anyone say Zach is?


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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
NFLJunkie wrote:
Do you have stats to back that up?
Yes, I do. Because I planned for this discussion yrs ago. :fart: I'm just kinda curious what stats you people keep asking for.

NFLJunkie wrote:
I remember ZT having some of the worst offenses.
Let me know what that has to do with the D not being able to get off the field more times than not with the game on the line.

NFLJunkie wrote:
The few times the offense was even close to middle of pack, the team made the playoffs mostly due to ZT and Taylor.
Miami's O was pretty much middle of the pack from '96 till 2005 ( Outside the '04 debacle )


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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
Dphins4me wrote:
Balt. Rank on O that yr was 14th in Pts. & 16 in Yds. Pretty much a Miami style O.


I know you are talking early '00s but I don't think I have even seen Miami surpass rank 20 in regards to overall offense in the league. Pretty darn sad.

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Post Re: Does Zach Thomas Belong in the HoF?
AFCMiamiEast wrote:
I know you are talking early '00s but I don't think I have even seen Miami surpass rank 20 in regards to overall offense in the league. Pretty darn sad.

Overall is pulled off of Yds, if I'm not mistaken.

Off Rank
Pts Yds
13 14 - 1996
13 11
16 16
13 20
16 26
08 21
12 15
17 24
28 29
16 14
29 20
26 28
21 12 - 2008


Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:55 pm
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