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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 11:47 am 
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by Andrew Abramson

So it sounds like Texans all-time great receiver Andre Johnson doesn’t want to be part of a rebuilding project in Houston.

Could that mean ending his career in Miami, where it all began?

Probably not. But it’s worth talking about, mainly because he was a star at Miami Senior High and played at the University of Miami.

He’s also 6-foot-3 which would benefit a Dolphins team that lacks receivers with height. The Dolphins’ only other 6-3 receivers are Armon Binns and Ryan Spadola. Nobody is taller.

After a couple of injury-prone seasons, Johnson — who will turn 33 this summer — returned to form the last two years. In 2013, he had 109 receptions for 1,407 yards and five touchdowns.

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- See more at: http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thedaily ... IoLmx.dpuf


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 12:02 pm 
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The Texans didn't do much to help the passing game. In fact, it probably went backwards. Plus you have his contract to deal with.

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Johnson has three years left on his deal and is set to count over $15 million against the cap. His contract would be hard to trade.


http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/1575/andre-johnson

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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 12:11 pm 
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Have to admit it crossed my mind yesterday when I saw he wanted out. Always been a big Johnson fan and he's a huge possesion receiver these days. Sure could help Tannehill this year opposite Wallace.


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 3:41 pm 
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Big Dave wrote:
The Texans didn't do much to help the passing game. In fact, it probably went backwards. Plus you have his contract to deal with.

Quote:
Johnson has three years left on his deal and is set to count over $15 million against the cap. His contract would be hard to trade.


http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/1575/andre-johnson


No way Johnson comes to Miami. Not with that contract. That plus Wallace's will take up almost 25% of the available cap space.

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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 3:45 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
Have to admit it crossed my mind yesterday when I saw he wanted out. Always been a big Johnson fan and he's a huge possesion receiver these days. Sure could help Tannehill this year opposite Wallace.


Except Wallace would probably blow a gasket if he became the not so big fish in our little pond. But thats not as big of problem as his contract, as Dave said haha

I always cheer for him as a Miami fan but every time i draft him he burns me with an injury or something

As good as he been, is it weird that hes never caught 10 TDs in a season?

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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 3:48 pm 
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Steve Zissou wrote:
But thats not as big of problem as his contract, as Dave said haha


Another problem is why he would come to the Dolphins as we've been through a lot of rebuilding programs as the Texans are going through. If he is tired of losing then there are other appealing teams out there ... such as the Patriots.

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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 9:14 pm 
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Big Dave wrote:
Steve Zissou wrote:
But thats not as big of problem as his contract, as Dave said haha


Another problem is why he would come to the Dolphins as we've been through a lot of rebuilding programs as the Texans are going through. If he is tired of losing then there are other appealing teams out there ... such as the Patriots.


My dinner was very nice the first time i tasted it. It wasn't as good the second when i read that idea

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 9:05 am 
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We're currently up against the cap, we do not have the money in any way shape or form to even consider AJ, speculation should pretty much end there.

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 12:46 pm 
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Finster wrote:
We're currently up against the cap, we do not have the money in any way shape or form to even consider AJ, speculation should pretty much end there.


False. I'm sure Andre would take a hometown Miami discount for a contract in the range of the vet minimum.

:grin:

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 12:53 pm 
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Finster wrote:
We're currently up against the cap


No, we're not.

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 9:50 am 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Finster wrote:
We're currently up against the cap, we do not have the money in any way shape or form to even consider AJ, speculation should pretty much end there.


False. I'm sure Andre would take a hometown Miami discount for a contract in the range of the vet minimum.

:grin:


:haha

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 10:12 am 
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Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
We're currently up against the cap


No, we're not.


Well, if we did trade for AJ then we couldn't sign our draft picks and we couldn't replace any injured players midseason, we have already used up our cap space and are currently into our rollover from last year, I would call that up against the cap, at least in regards to AJ, we have plenty of room for scrubs but not for AJ.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:27 pm 
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Finster wrote:
Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
We're currently up against the cap


No, we're not.


Well, if we did trade for AJ then we couldn't sign our draft picks and we couldn't replace any injured players midseason, we have already used up our cap space and are currently into our rollover from last year, I would call that up against the cap, at least in regards to AJ, we have plenty of room for scrubs but not for AJ.


We're currently over $16 million below the cap. That's far from being up against the cap.

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•2. Dolphins: $16.326 million


http://espn.go.com/blog/miami-dolphins/ ... salary-cap

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:31 am 
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Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
Rich wrote:

Well, if we did trade for AJ then we couldn't sign our draft picks and we couldn't replace any injured players midseason, we have already used up our cap space and are currently into our rollover from last year, I would call that up against the cap, at least in regards to AJ, we have plenty of room for scrubs but not for AJ.


We're currently over $16 million below the cap. That's far from being up against the cap

http://espn.go.com/blog/miami-dolphins/ ... salary-cap


He is guaranteed 15 mil this year, do you suppose we can sign the rest of our draft picks and also save some money for in season emergencies with the 1 million dollars left after aquiring him?

As I said, as it pertains to AJ, we're up against the cap.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:44 am 
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Finster wrote:

He is guaranteed 15 mil this year, do you suppose we can sign the rest of our draft picks and also save some money for in season emergencies with the 1 million dollars left after aquiring him?

As I said, as it pertains to AJ, we're up against the cap.


Guaranteed 15 mill? I read that he'd only count 11 mil against the cap and there's like only 10 teams that would be able to afford trading for him, Miami being one of them.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:55 am 
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Project86JLL13 wrote:
Finster wrote:

He is guaranteed 15 mil this year, do you suppose we can sign the rest of our draft picks and also save some money for in season emergencies with the 1 million dollars left after aquiring him?

As I said, as it pertains to AJ, we're up against the cap.


Guaranteed 15 mill? I read that he'd only count 11 mil against the cap and there's like only 10 teams that would be able to afford trading for him, Miami being one of them.


From what I understand, he is due 15,644,583 mil this year.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:03 am 
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Finster wrote:
From what I understand, he is due 15,644,583 mil this year.


Quote:
Johnson carries a salary cap charge in 2014 of $15,644,583 and a cash contract value of $11 million. If traded before June 1, Johnson’s cap charge for the Texans would be $11,964,166 representing a savings of $3,680,417 against the cap. If traded after June 1 the Texans would take a $4.644 million cap charge in 2014 and a $7.319 million charge in 2015. In either scenario the trade would help rather than hurt the Texans salary cap.


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Only 12 potential destinations could absorb his $11 million salary without touching the contract. Of those 13 only the Bengals, Eagles, Packers , and Colts would be considered sure fire contenders and most of those squads are set at the WR position. Fringe playoff teams with the room would include the Jets, Dolphins, and Bills. Buffalo would certainly have no interest and Miami is already overspent at the position.


http://overthecap.com/thoughts-andre-johnson-lessons-learned-contract/

A quick Google search reveals multiple links that all say around 11-12 mill.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:04 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:07 am 
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The Texans really shouldn't move Johnson until they get to June 1 so they can split up the dead money issue facing them. Houston has $12.5 million of cap space and could absorb the whole $11 million cap hit but is better off taking a $4 million hit this year and a $7 million hit next year.


http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/pat-kirwan/24562480/a-primer-on-if-the-texans-are-to-trade-andre-johnson


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:41 am 
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I stand corrected, 11 to 12 mil, that would still leave us with virtually no wiggle room for whatever emergency signing we might have to do, and there are emergency signings every year because players get injured and or don't live up to expectations.

Then there is next year when he is due the same amount, and would count at around 15 mil, also have to take into account that he's going to be 33 before the season starts, and of course be 34 prior to next season.

If we were a contender and the final piece we needed was a WR then I would be all for it, but for us it would seem like a desperation move, I hope we're beyond that.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:34 pm 
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Who's to say we're not a contender?

I would be all for it if the asking price was fair. He's a proven commodity that, even at 33, will still change games. His presence alone will take pressure off other receiving options.

I don't know how many "emergency signings" you're expecting, but most of the time those emergency signings hardly impact the cap because those signings are one year deals where the players are signing for minimums. Heck, even hardly making an impact on the field. I can't see Miami signing $4-5 million deals for guys that hardly sees the field. On the other hand, Andre will make an impact, whether it's for his annual 100/1400/10 line, or for a 50/700/5 line but opens things up more for Wallace, Hartline, and Landry. And, what better way to help out a young and still developing Tannehill than to trade for one of the games premiere WR.

I'm not worried about cap space, players can be cut to make room or a contract restructure could happen. What I am worried about passing on a possible trade opportunity that might have us fans pondering "what if".....


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:39 pm 
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If there was a trade and restructure scenarion, it could be modeled in a fashion where his contract has little impact to the cap for his base salary and guarantee a higher amount in bonuses and incentives.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:57 pm 
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Finster wrote:
If we were a contender and the final piece we needed was a WR then I would be all for it, but for us it would seem like a desperation move, I hope we're beyond that.


This is the Dolphins you are talking about...nothing is ever beyond desperation for these guys lol.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:34 am 
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He signed a very nice extension for alot of money. Now all of a sudden he is whining because he is unhappy with his team's off season. There was really no big name free agent quarter back to sign nor was any of these quarter backs coming out of college in the class of a Andrew Luck. The Texans did the right thing this off season. Now they showed loyalty to him with the extension he should do the same to them. Honor your contract , go out there & be a team guy , help your team because winning cures everything. So tired of these athletes.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:48 am 
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Finster wrote:
He is guaranteed 15 mil this year, do you suppose we can sign the rest of our draft picks and also save some money for in season emergencies with the 1 million dollars left after aquiring him?

As I said, as it pertains to AJ, we're up against the cap.


His base salary is $10 million. We wouldn't be on the hook for any bonuses, only base salary.

And contracts can easily be restructured.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:53 am 
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Finster wrote:
I stand corrected, 11 to 12 mil, that would still leave us with virtually no wiggle room for whatever emergency signing we might have to do, and there are emergency signings every year because players get injured and or don't live up to expectations.


$10 million. And you can easily restructure that contract and drop that number considerably.

Quote:
Then there is next year when he is due the same amount, and would count at around 15 mil, also have to take into account that he's going to be 33 before the season starts, and of course be 34 prior to next season.


That's not how the cap works in the event of a trade. We are not on the hook for his amortized bonus, period. We would be on the hook for his $11 million base salary, which again if we restructured him would be easily reduced.

That being said, I agree with the age thing and wouldn't be supportive of such a trade without a significantly reasonable restructure.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:46 am 
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Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
He is guaranteed 15 mil this year, do you suppose we can sign the rest of our draft picks and also save some money for in season emergencies with the 1 million dollars left after aquiring him?

As I said, as it pertains to AJ, we're up against the cap.


His base salary is $10 million. We wouldn't be on the hook for any bonuses, only base salary.

And contracts can easily be restructured.


Someone here provided a link that shows 11 mil, 10 mil in base and 1 mil as a week 1 roster bonus, but either way the only way it's easy to restructure is if he allows it, and he doesn't have to, so really we have no idea how easy it would be.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:49 am 
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Finster wrote:
Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
He is guaranteed 15 mil this year, do you suppose we can sign the rest of our draft picks and also save some money for in season emergencies with the 1 million dollars left after aquiring him?

As I said, as it pertains to AJ, we're up against the cap.


His base salary is $10 million. We wouldn't be on the hook for any bonuses, only base salary.

And contracts can easily be restructured.


Someone here provided a link that shows 11 mil, 10 mil in base and 1 mil as a week 1 roster bonus, but either way the only way it's easy to restructure is if he allows it, and he doesn't have to, so really we have no idea how easy it would be.


When I say easily, I refer to the CBA and moving money over using amortized bonuses etc. Obvioulsy he would need to agree to it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:53 am 
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All contracts are easy to restructure, getting a player to give up money though is getting rarer and rarer.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:56 am 
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Finster wrote:
All contracts are easy to restructure, getting a player to give up money though is getting rarer and rarer.


If the Dolphins were to extend him to say a 4 year deal with a $14 million signing bonus, he would actually get more money this year than he would have in Houston. That amortizes to about $3.5 million a year. Then with a low base salary, he'd probably be about a $ million cap hit in 2014.

He'd make a couple million more and we'd cut his cap hit in half.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:02 am 
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I don't think it's a good idea to just create more dead cap space, thats just my opinion.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:08 am 
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Finster wrote:
I don't think it's a good idea to just create more dead cap space, thats just my opinion.


Agreed, that is the risk with signing bonuses...

So you'd have to hope he can continue playing at a high level for another 2-3 years.

And dead cap is just a part of doing business in the NFL. There is no way to avoid it unless you're cheap.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:14 am 
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Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
I don't think it's a good idea to just create more dead cap space, thats just my opinion.


Agreed, that is the risk with signing bonuses...

So you'd have to hope he can continue playing at a high level for another 2-3 years.

And dead cap is just a part of doing business in the NFL. There is no way to avoid it unless you're cheap.


Actually you can avoid it by not making desperate deals like this one, we have no real need for AJ, we don't even know how our QB is going to be able to handle this new O, signing aging vets to large contracts is not smart for us at this point.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:31 am 
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Finster wrote:
we have no real need for AJ, we don't even know how our QB is going to be able to handle this new offense


I'm not sure how it can be argued that we have no need for a superstar receiver who can catch 100+ balls a season, is fast and big and a match up nightmare for corners. We do not have that type of player on our roster today.

And it would make our QB's life easier if he had that type of player on the team, not to mention Johnson is not a headcase like Brandon Marshall...

I hear you on the age and the money, but definitely think you're off the mark in regards to what he would bring.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:21 am 
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The phins are on of the few teams that can afford to actually make the trade and contract work. You can relieve some of the cap space by trading a few of the higher base/lower bonus money player currently on the roster to allowed this move to happen and not impact the cap significantly. Why not? His age and contract is one thing, what he brings to the team is another. Cuts will be made in the coming weeks, so I'm not worried about what cap space will remain for signing those "emergency signings". What's cap space for if you're not spending it?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:54 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
we have no real need for AJ, we don't even know how our QB is going to be able to handle this new offense


I'm not sure how it can be argued that we have no need for a superstar receiver who can catch 100+ balls a season, is fast and big and a match up nightmare for corners. We do not have that type of player on our roster today.

And it would make our QB's life easier if he had that type of player on the team, not to mention Johnson is not a headcase like Brandon Marshall...

I hear you on the age and the money, but definitely think you're off the mark in regards to what he would bring.


What I meant when I said we have no need for AJ was that our WRs are far from being a weak spot on the team and there is a huge investment in WRs already, we spent a ton of money on an elite flanker last year and our QB couldn't hit him on the deep ball, and at AJ's age he could slow down any time now, age creeps up and you start getting nicked up.

AJ would of course make the O better, but at what cost, and if our QB isn't the answer then it's just wasted money, Oline questions, RB questions, TE questions and D questions, imo we aren't an AJ away from winning a SB so there is no real need, it would be a luxury that imo we can't afford.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:51 am 
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It would be impossible to fit both Mike Wallace and Andre Johnson under our cap.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:39 am 
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Finster wrote:
AJ would of course make the O better, but at what cost, and if our QB isn't the answer then it's just wasted money, Oline questions, RB questions, TE questions and D questions, imo we aren't an AJ away from winning a SB so there is no real need, it would be a luxury that imo we can't afford.


I don't consider giving your quarterback the best possible opportunity to succeed a luxury in today's NFL.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:39 am 
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Big Dave wrote:
It would be impossible to fit both Mike Wallace and Andre Johnson under our cap.


I've already gone over this, Dave. No, it wouldn't be impossible....

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:16 am 
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Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
AJ would of course make the O better, but at what cost, and if our QB isn't the answer then it's just wasted money, Oline questions, RB questions, TE questions and D questions, imo we aren't an AJ away from winning a SB so there is no real need, it would be a luxury that imo we can't afford.


I don't consider giving your quarterback the best possible opportunity to succeed a luxury in today's NFL.


As I said, with all our problems, AJ does not represent "the best possible opportunity to succeed" imo, and when your ignoring other deficits on the team to dump even more money into WRs, that is a luxury, one we can't afford.

We are already into our rollover, which means we are actually over the cap, how many decent players will have to be cut so we can keep an aging vet on the team next year, and no FA help for any other positions.

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