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 Lydon Murtha tells all! 
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Post Lydon Murtha tells all!
http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-in ... on-murtha/

By Lydon Murtha

I don’t have a dog in this fight.

I want that to be very clear. I played offensive tackle for the Miami Dolphins from 2009 until the 2012 preseason, when I was released after tearing ligaments in my foot and injuring my back, both requiring surgery. I have since retired, and I’m happily working in the auto industry and living outside of Miami. I went to college at Nebraska with Richie Incognito, and I consider myself friends with him and Jonathan Martin, but I don’t speak with them regularly and I’m not taking sides. I’m only interested in the truth, which is what I’m going to share, from my own experiences and from conversations with friends still on the team.

Before I correct some of the misconceptions and outright lies being reported in the course of this story, let’s first establish who Martin and Incognito are as human beings and their relationship with one another.

Martin was expected to play left tackle beside Incognito at guard from the start, so Incognito took him under his wing. They were close friends by all apperances. Martin had a tendency to tank when things would get difficult in practice, and Incognito would lift him up. He’d say, there’s always tomorrow. Richie has been more kind to Martin than any other player.

In other situations, when Martin wasn’t showing effort, Richie would give him a lot of crap. He was a leader on the team, and he would get in your face if you were unprepared or playing poorly. The crap he would give Martin was no more than he gave anyone else, including me. Other players said the same things Incognito said to Martin, so you’d need to suspend the whole team if you suspend Incognito.

Which brings me to my first point: I don’t believe Richie Incognito bullied Jonathan Martin. I never saw Martin singled out, excluded from anything, or treated any differently than the rest of us. We’d have dinners and the occasional night out, and everyone was invited. He was never told he can’t be a part of this. It was the exact opposite. But when he came out, he was very standoffish. That’s why the coaches told the leaders, bring him out of his shell. Figure him out a little bit.

That’s where Incognito ran into a problem. Personally, I know when a guy can’t handle razzing. You can tell that some guys just aren’t built for it. Incognito doesn’t have that filter. He was the jokester on the team, and he joked with everybody from players to coaches. That voicemail he sent came from a place of humor, but where he really screwed up was using the N-word. That, I cannot condone, and it’s probably the biggest reason he’s not with the team right now. Odd thing is, I’ve heard Incognito call Martin the same thing to his face in meetings and all Martin did was laugh. Many more worse things were said about others in the room from all different parties. It’s an Animal House. Now Incognito’s being slandered as a racist and a bigot, and unfortunately that’s never going to be wiped clean because of all the wrong he’s done people in his past. But if you really know who Richie is, he’s a really good, kind man and far from a racist.

In my experience, he’s not the kind of person who would extort someone for $15,000. The notion that Martin was forced to pay for a trip he didn’t attend has been misrepresented.
From the beginning, when he was drafted in April 2012, Martin did not seem to want to be one of the group. He came off as standoffish and shy to the rest of the offensive linemen. He couldn’t look anyone in the eye, which was puzzling for a football player at this level on a team full of grown-ass men. We all asked the same question: Why won’t he be open with us? What’s with the wall being put up? I never really figured it out. He did something I’d never seen before by balking at the idea of paying for a rookie dinner, which is a meal for a position group paid for by rookies. (For example, I paid $9,600 for one my rookie year.) I don’t know if Martin ever ended up paying for one, as I was cut before seeing the outcome.


Every year, as tradition, the offensive line goes on a big Vegas trip. Everything is paid for in advance, from hotels to a private jet to show tickets. Martin originally verbally committed to the trip, then later backed out after everything was booked. Now, if you can’t go because of an emergency then it’s okay, but to say you’re going and then decide you don’t want to spend the money later? Everything was paid for, and then when it was time to pay up he didn’t want to go anymore. You don’t do that to your brothers. The veterans who paid for it, including Incognito and others, asked for Martin’s share, and he gave it to them. End of story.

The silliest part of this story, to me, is the incident at the cafeteria, in which Martin was supposed to have been hazed when everyone got up from their seats as he sat down. Whoever leaked that story failed to share that getting up from a packed lunch table when one lineman sits down is a running gag that has been around for years. It happened to me more than once, and it happened to Martin because guys on the team say he was overcoming an illness. Just like when a guy is hurt, the joke is, I don’t want to sit with you, you’ve got the bug. Perhaps for Martin it was the straw that broke the camel’s back, but when Incognito reached him after he stormed out, Martin told him the departure had nothing to do with Incognito. Martin said it was something else. Then the media onslaught began.

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Last edited by rodneyfaile on Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:31 am, edited 3 times in total.



Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:25 am
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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
Absolute must read. Fantastic job by Lydon.


Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:26 am
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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
This won't make the headlines. This is a witch hunt, lets not get facts in the way of a juicy story. We have a life and career to ruin and an agenda to shove down your throat.


Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:48 am
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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
an agenda to shove down your throat.


This is becoming true.


Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:51 am
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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
This is where I stand on who and how much to blame:

Martin - Why rat out your teammates? If you don't want to be in the NFL, then leave. Don't look for a scapegoat to try and justify a decision. Be a man about it.

Incognito and teammates: You need to have a better sense of how far you can push certain guys. If Murtha could, how did you guys not see it?

Philbin, staff, and Ireland: Put in a tough position, but they turned it into a disaster by mis-managing it. In spring, Oct. 28th, and after-the-fact with the abundant lies.

For me, this was about poor management at the top, immaturity at the bottom. And now that it's blown up, it's about egos, agendas and desperation top to bottom.


Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:58 am
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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
This won't make the headlines.

Phin, you are probably right and I am on the "Witch Hunt" opinion as well. Adam Schefter for instance was really stirring the pot. In fact, I have lost respect for his mouth as he immediately starting throwing Richie under the bus and was promoting against him in a big way and I will be curious that IF more facts come out to support Incognito, will Schefter eat crow??

Murtha's comments were excellent and he seems like he was being genuine, although we will never really know, but it sure came across as legit to me.


Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:58 am
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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
Phins Rock wrote:
This is where I stand on who and how much to blame:

Martin - Why rat out your teammates? If you don't want to be in the NFL, then leave. Don't look for a scapegoat to try and justify a decision. Be a man about it.

Incognito and teammates: You need to have a better sense of how far you can push certain guys. If Murtha could, how did you guys not see it?

Philbin, staff, and Ireland: Put in a tough position, but they turned it into a disaster by mis-managing it. In spring, Oct. 28th, and after-the-fact with the abundant lies.

For me, this was about poor management at the top, immaturity at the bottom. And now that it's blown up, it's about egos, agendas and desperation top to bottom.


Lack of leadership, lack of direction.

Much like the lack of identify on offense and defense.

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Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:59 am
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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
Phins Rock wrote:
This is where I stand on who and how much to blame:

Martin - Why rat out your teammates? If you don't want to be in the NFL, then leave. Don't look for a scapegoat to try and justify a decision. Be a man about it.

Incognito and teammates: You need to have a better sense of how far you can push certain guys. If Murtha could, how did you guys not see it?

Philbin, staff, and Ireland: Put in a tough position, but they turned it into a disaster by mis-managing it. In spring, Oct. 28th, and after-the-fact with the abundant lies.

For me, this was about poor management at the top, immaturity at the bottom. And now that it's blown up, it's about egos, agendas and desperation top to bottom.


Wow. Great job by Lydon Murtha, and great job by Phins Rock.

I hope we start hearing more reasonable explanations like this from the media Monday night.

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Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:05 am
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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
Man I wish we wax the Bucs Monday night.


Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:06 am
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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
What's strange about all this is that I've had a hard time getting behind this team this season, and caring like I used to. On Monday night, I see myself rooting my butt off for this team.

I'm with you Mak. Let's get this.


Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:02 am
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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
Notice how the media isn't giving Lydon Murtha's statements much attention, because once most people start down a path, they have a hard time changing their minds, no matter how much information you present to them, especially in the case of the media, because they are the ones who exacerbated matters by jumping on the bandwagon.

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Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:36 am
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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
rodneyfaile wrote:
Notice how the media isn't giving Lydon Murtha's statements much attention, because once most people start down a path, they have a hard time changing their minds, no matter how much information you present to them, especially in the case of the media, because they are the ones who exacerbated matters by jumping on the bandwagon.


There are problems with Murtha's statement.

Let's start with the fact that he hasn't been in that lockeroom in 15 months. Also, he claims the Dolphins coaches knew what was going on but doesn't specify, so he is speaking in broad generalities.

He may have the facts of what he saw while he was with the team, but he doesn't have all the facts on this story going back 15 months...

That's a pretty significant gap.

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Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:41 am
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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
Why would Murtha feel the need to comment on this unless he thinks that an injustice is being carried out? How does commenting on this benefit him? He is a retired player with nothing to gain from commenting. His candid explanation and support for Incognito adds to a growing list of current and former players coming to his defense.

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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
bobby0112 wrote:
Why would Murtha feel the need to comment on this unless he thinks that an injustice is being carried out? How does commenting on this benefit him? He is a retired player with nothing to gain from commenting. His candid explanation and support for Incognito adds to a growing list of current and former players coming to his defense.


And it adds to a growing list of people commenting on this situation without all of the facts.

Again, he wasn't in that lockeroom for the past 15 months so there are definite gaps in his story. There is no denying that.

Since we're grasping for straws with theories today as well, he also was replaced by Jonathan Martin without being allowed to compete for the position, which may explain why he is throwing the coaches/organization under the bus.

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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
Rich wrote:
bobby0112 wrote:
Why would Murtha feel the need to comment on this unless he thinks that an injustice is being carried out? How does commenting on this benefit him? He is a retired player with nothing to gain from commenting. His candid explanation and support for Incognito adds to a growing list of current and former players coming to his defense.


And it adds to a growing list of people commenting on this situation without all of the facts.

Again, he wasn't in that lockeroom for the past 15 months so there are definite gaps in his story. There is no denying that.

Since we're grasping for straws with theories today as well, he also was replaced by Jonathan Martin without being allowed to compete for the position, which may explain why he is throwing the coaches/organization under the bus.


This little article wasn't written in the form or attitude of personal gain. I doubt it was anything more then Murtha trying to stand up for the 'little guy' since theres a media dog pile

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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
Steve Zissou wrote:
This little article wasn't written in the form or attitude of personal gain. I doubt it was anything more then Murtha trying to stand up for the 'little guy' since theres a media dog pile


It doesn't change the fact that this guy wasn't in the Dolphins lockeroom for the past 15 months, which again, creates gaps between what he knows and what happened since April.

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Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:24 am
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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
Rich wrote:
Steve Zissou wrote:
This little article wasn't written in the form or attitude of personal gain. I doubt it was anything more then Murtha trying to stand up for the 'little guy' since theres a media dog pile


It doesn't change the fact that this guy wasn't in the Dolphins lockeroom for the past 15 months, which again, creates gaps between what he knows and what happened since April.


That is very true, but that is no reason to disregard what he actually did observe, or his intelligent assessment of the situation.

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Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:40 am
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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
Colin Cowherd was an @$$ on his show today.

It does not seem he wanted to tell all the news, just cherry-pick items that support his early condemnation of Incognito and the Dolphins.

"The definition of an intellectual is someone who can change their mind when given information" - Penn Jillette

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Last edited by rodneyfaile on Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:48 pm
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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
rodneyfaile wrote:
That is very true, but that is no reason to disregard what he actually did observe, or his intelligent assessment of the situation.


No, but it is being presented by some here as gospel. Which means some who made up their minds about this situation used these to further present their point of view without scrutinizing it first. And it is worth scrutinizing, just like anything else coming out about this issue.

You're quote about being an intellectual works both ways.

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Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:03 pm
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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
Rich wrote:
rodneyfaile wrote:
That is very true, but that is no reason to disregard what he actually did observe, or his intelligent assessment of the situation.


No, but it is being presented by some here as gospel. Which means some who made up their minds about this situation used these to further present their point of view without scrutinizing it first. And it is worth scrutinizing, just like anything else coming out about this issue.

You're quote about being an intellectual works both ways.


Yes it does go both ways.

But media members have become celebrities themselves of sort, and I think it is more about sensationalism than presenting the facts. These are people's lives.

I like Lydon Murtha's comments because they are a calm, informed, interpretation of the circumstances that doesn't take sides.

Everyone likes to place blame. It seems like EVERYONE involved could have handled it better.

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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
rodneyfaile wrote:
I like Lydon Murtha's comments because they are a calm, informed, interpretation of the circumstances that doesn't take sides.


They seem to take a definite side to me.

Quote:
It seems like EVERYONE involved could have handled it better.


Absolutely.

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Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:18 pm
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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
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Indeed, Murtha’s factual perspective is limited. He played for the Dolphins through August 31, 2012, which means that he observed the interactions between Incognito and Martin only through the 2012 offseason program (following Martin’s arrival via the draft), training camp, and the preseason.

Murtha says, presumably based on his experiences, that Martin didn’t “seem to want to be one of the group,” and that he “came off as standoffish and shy” to the rest of the lineman. Murtha says that Martin “couldn’t look anyone in the eye, which was puzzling for a football player at this level on a team full of grown-ass men.”

Fair translation? The “grown-ass men” in the locker room viewed Martin as different, as not tough, and ultimately as soft. Which meshes with the notion that, instead of accepting Martin for who he is, players (and possibly coaches) wanted to make Martin more like them.

In insisting that Incognito didn’t bully Martin, Murtha claims that everyone gave Martin a hard time: “Other players said the same things Incognito said to Martin, so you’d need to suspend the whole team if you suspend Incognito.”

That could be good for Incognito, but bad for the Dolphins.

The bigger problem with Murtha’s proclamation that Incognito didn’t bully Martin is that Murtha seems to be applying his own interpretation of what “bullying” is. To support his position, Murtha writes that Martin was never singled out or treated differently or excluded.

At the same time, Murtha never really addresses the question of whether the verbal interactions between Incognito and Martin crossed the line. Murtha comes close, pointing out that he knows “when a guy can’t handle razzing” and that “Incognito doesn’t have that filter,” but Murtha never comments on whether Incognito exposed Martin to “razzing” that Martin may not have been able to handle.

The column then careens off the rails when Murtha in his supposed first-person account starts to offer conjecture about things he didn’t actually experience. For example, Murtha declares the voice message sent earlier this year from Incognito to Martin — months after Murtha was cut — “came from a place of humor.”

How can Murtha possibly know that as part of a first-person account? The more accurate explanation is that someone else (possibly Incognito) told this to Murtha.

Murtha also disputes the suggestion that Incognito improperly squeezed $15,000 out of Martin to pay for a trip to Las Vegas with no facts, and no proof. Per multiple league and media sources, the trip happened in 2013. Murtha was long gone by then, and yet Murtha uses his first-person account to create the impression that he has conclusive first-hand evidence of what happened.

He doesn’t. Anything he said about it came from someone else. Possibly Incognito.

And that’s where the column gets very interesting, but for reasons Murtha likely didn’t intend. If, as it appears, someone else is funneling information to Murtha, someone else may have funneled this information, too: “Incognito was made a scapegoat for the hell coming down on the Dolphins organization, which in turn said it knew nothing about any so-called hazing. That’s the most outlandish lie of this whole thing. The coaches know everything. The coaches know who’s getting picked on and in many cases call for that player to be singled out. Any type of denial on that side is ridiculous.”

If Murtha is getting that information from Incognito, get ready for Incognito to officially claim that he was merely doing what he thought he was supposed to do as a team leader, and that management either told him to do it or at a minimum knew he was doing it.

That could be good for Incognito, but bad for the Dolphins.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -going-on/

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Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:23 pm
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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
rodneyfaile wrote:
I like Lydon Murtha's comments because they are a calm, informed, interpretation of the circumstances that doesn't take sides.

Everyone likes to place blame. It seems like EVERYONE involved could have handled it better.


I saw article on Yahoo today. I agree, everyone involved is to blame on some level.

Murtha's explaination matches what I felt was the story from the beginning. I wish this whole story would drop out of the headlines already. Looking forward to a win on MNF.


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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
With all that has come to the forefront in the last 24 hrs, why isn't there anything coming from the organization in refererence to reinstating Cogs? Are they waiting for the official investigation from the NFL to complete?


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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
Rich wrote:
bobby0112 wrote:
Why would Murtha feel the need to comment on this unless he thinks that an injustice is being carried out? How does commenting on this benefit him? He is a retired player with nothing to gain from commenting. His candid explanation and support for Incognito adds to a growing list of current and former players coming to his defense.


And it adds to a growing list of people commenting on this situation without all of the facts.

Again, he wasn't in that lockeroom for the past 15 months so there are definite gaps in his story. There is no denying that.

Since we're grasping for straws with theories today as well, he also was replaced by Jonathan Martin without being allowed to compete for the position, which may explain why he is throwing the coaches/organization under the bus.

Rich, you bring up great points. How do you feel about Murtha's comments in light of other comments from current teammates?


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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
Phin wrote:
This won't make the headlines. This is a witch hunt, lets not get facts in the way of a juicy story. We have a life and career to ruin and an agenda to shove down your throat.

:awe: :awe: Ding ding ding....we have a winner. Special thanks to Adam Scheffler


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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
hab321 wrote:
With all that has come to the forefront in the last 24 hrs, why isn't there anything coming from the organization in refererence to reinstating Cogs? Are they waiting for the official investigation from the NFL to complete?


They have to. They are in enough hot water as it is.

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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
Phin wrote:
Rich, you bring up great points. How do you feel about Murtha's comments in light of other comments from current teammates?


I question how relevant their comments are to this.

It is entirely possible that Incognito simply won a popularity contest here because he's the lockeroom jokester, enforcer, guy that has your back etc. He's been here longer, played with some of these guys longer and is the better player, while Martin fits in less. So they have Incognito's back.

Therefore, I think it is also possible for the lockeroom to vouch for Incognito and for Incognito to have felt he did nothing wrong while Jonathan Martin has legitimate feelings that he was harassed, bullied whatever you want to call it.

I believe Jonathan Martin filed a complaint against the Dolphins, not Incognito (someone correct me if I am wrong). Part of the evidence for that complaint was text messages and voicemails from Incognito. The Dolphins were the ones that decided to suspend Incognito. It could be a CYA move to demonstrate they tried to do something.

Hartline is being quoted as saying that Martin shared the voicemail with his teammates and they laughed about it. But if you look at the quote further, he says that is how he remembered it but he could be wrong. So he isn't 100% sure.

Again, we still don't know all the facts but it wouldn't surprise if when this is all over, the consensus will be that both players simply got screwed by the organization in different ways.

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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
Phins Rock wrote:
This is where I stand on who and how much to blame:

Martin - Why rat out your teammates? If you don't want to be in the NFL, then leave. Don't look for a scapegoat to try and justify a decision. Be a man about it.

Incognito and teammates: You need to have a better sense of how far you can push certain guys. If Murtha could, how did you guys not see it?

Philbin, staff, and Ireland: Put in a tough position, but they turned it into a disaster by mis-managing it. In spring, Oct. 28th, and after-the-fact with the abundant lies.

For me, this was about poor management at the top, immaturity at the bottom. And now that it's blown up, it's about egos, agendas and desperation top to bottom.


I don't agree with your assessment. It could be right. But I am not sure that the whole story has come out or that the part that has fully supports your take.


Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:21 pm
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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
Phins Rock wrote:
What's strange about all this is that I've had a hard time etting behind this team this season, and caring like I used to. On Monday night, I see myself rooting my butt off for this team.

I'm with you Mak. Let's get this.


That's what I'm thinking....hopefully this turns on a light.

Richie should get some counciling and do what the Eagles did This summer with the wr.
Obviously the team would except him back.

The Management needs to stop alowing this to be a circus! No more press conferances..What was that?


Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:22 pm
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Post Re: Lydon Murtha tells all!
Kev1321 wrote:
That's what I'm thinking....hopefully this turns on a light.

Richie should get some counciling and do what the Eagles did This summer with the wr.
Obviously the team would except him back.

The Management needs to stop alowing this to be a circus! No more press conferances..What was that?


They needed it. The media had it's claws sunk in them. I'm glad they went against team protocol and decided to speak up.

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Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:27 pm
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