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 Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen 
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Post Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/footb ... -1.1510449

Bill Parcells was still running the Dolphins in 2010 when they signed guard Richie Incognito, who had been cut by the Rams and Bills the previous season and came with a reputation of being trouble but was looking to salvage his career.

Parcells told the Daily News on Thursday that the Dolphins’ pro personnel department came to him with the suggestion to sign Incognito.

“They thought he could help us,” he said. “We had a good visit with him, told him the way it was going to be. He was a model citizen for the year that I was there with him. I thought the kid was kind of at a crossroads where you might, could save him. It turned out they were pretty much right about that. I believe he’s played pretty well for them.”

Parcells didn’t want to offer his opinion about the explosive events of the past week, with the Dolphins suspending Incognito after it was alleged that he bullied teammate Jonathan Martin. He wants to wait for the facts to come out and says he's heard “17 different versions of this thing. It’s all conjecture on the part of everybody.”

RELATED: POLICE REPORT: INCOGNITO ALLEGEDLY SEXUALLY HARRASSED GOLF COURSE WORKER

The Dolphins suspended Incognito after they were made aware of a voicemail he left for Martin in April that contained a racial slur and threats.

“If you are a racist or a bigot, you are not going to survive in that environment. It will not be tolerated,” Parcells said. “That’s why you see so much support for (Incognito). There’s nobody who thinks that’s what he is. I haven’t heard anything from Martin that ever indicated there was something contentious between those two. Maybe something in the future will come out.”
The Dolphins suspend Richie Incognito after they were made aware of a voicemail he left for Jonathan Martin.
Wilfredo Lee/AP
The Dolphins suspend Richie Incognito after they were made aware of a voicemail he left for Jonathan Martin.

The Dolphins were the last team Parcells worked for in his Hall of Fame career. He joined them toward the end of the 2007 season as the executive vice president of football operations, transitioned into a consultant role during the 2010 season and left the Dolphins after the season.

Parcells wasn’t taking sides in the Incognito-Martin case, but at least wondered if Martin truly wanted to play football. He also said it’s hard for anybody not in the locker room to understand what goes on inside it.

RELATED: LAWYER SAYS MARTIN'S DOLPHINS TEAMMATE SAID THEY WOULD 'F---' HIS SISTER'

“I take strong exception to people intimating they know what goes on in those rooms,” he said. “I was in those rooms for 52 years. I know what goes on in there. The players have their own justice system. And it works. They don’t write the rules and regulations down, but everybody knows what they are. Some things you don’t do.”

Is the locker-room justice system fair?

“It’s fair,” Parcells said. “It’s a lot fairer than most of the justice systems that exist. If a player does mean-spirited things to somebody, and I’m not saying that is what happened, the players regulate it. They don’t put up with stuff like that. The locker room is its own world. If a player is for the greater good, if he can help, come in, we want you. If you can’t, get the hell out of here. That’s what it is. Is it fair? I don’t know. That's the law of that jungle.”

Parcells said that in his 19 years as the head coach of the Giants, Patriots, Jets and Cowboys, “I had some volatile players. My guys were in fights in the locker room. It was unbelievable, but they handled it.”

The Dolphins apparently could not get this handled, and now they are being investigated by the NFL.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/footb ... z2k4XFdyF6


Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:27 am
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
A synopsis of the article:

I signed the guy, therefore he was a good signing.

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Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:32 am
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
Lawrence Taylor is a model citizen too.


Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:34 am
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
J-Mart is going to retire from the NFL and start an anti-bullying campaign nation wide preaching to glee clubs and chess teams about how its smart to carry a voice recorder around and sue the jocks if they call you four-eyes


Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:35 am
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
I am still trying to understand why this was all handled allowing the media to run with it first.

Martin had problems with folks, okay, then go to Stephen Ross at the top, I mean he is clearly choosing the litigious path and to me that is a planned and calculated choice, especially when you have saved all your text messages and voice mails as it appears he is mounting a case against the Miami Dolphins.

The report says this lawyer of his isn't hired on to create a lawsuit......yeah right...sit back and get your popcorn ready because it is coming.


Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:44 am
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
Finhead34 wrote:
Martin had problems with folks, okay, then go to Stephen Ross at the top, I mean he is clearly choosing the litigious path and to me that is a planned and calculated choice, especially when you have saved all your text messages and voice mails as it appears he is mounting a case against the Miami Dolphins.


This is a conditional statement, but where else do you go IF you know what is going on is an institutional issue (i.e. the team condoned or encouraged the behavior)?

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Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:07 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
This is a conditional statement, but where else do you go IF you know what is going on is an institutional issue (i.e. the team condoned or encouraged the behavior)?

Let's put it this way, IF, the investigation uncovers a bunch of unethical and/or harassment treatment within the organization, my guess is whether Philbin or Ireland did or did not know about it, Ross will probably have to roll heads and have a make over of his leadership OR Ross sells his team and let's someone else figure it all out.

Extreme comment, but it is bad enough the local community won't go for a new stadium bill, imagine more really bad negative press comes out and someone from California swoops in and buys the Dolphins now. Ross may not want this flea on his back.


Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:43 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
Rich wrote:
Finhead34 wrote:
Martin had problems with folks, okay, then go to Stephen Ross at the top, I mean he is clearly choosing the litigious path and to me that is a planned and calculated choice, especially when you have saved all your text messages and voice mails as it appears he is mounting a case against the Miami Dolphins.


This is a conditional statement, but where else do you go IF you know what is going on is an institutional issue (i.e. the team condoned or encouraged the behavior)?


I just keep going back to the fact that Martin texted Incognito and said he doesn't blame him and met with Philbin at the hospital prior to lawyering up.

If there was a known existence of harassment that was impacting his play why wouldn't A. they address it or B. ship him out of town prior to the trade deadline. If Martin is so concerned with continuing his football career but hated the Miami environment couldn't his agent have approached Ireland to be traded or released? Heck, apparently he has all this leverage to force his way out of town.

Instead he walked away but his family seems to realize what he might have cost himself financially. So now they are creating a strategy to ensure he gets his money.

Every NFL locker room has to be concerned about a player or two pulling the same thing.


Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:21 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
Instead he walked away but his family seems to realize what he might have cost himself financially. So now they are creating a strategy to ensure he gets his money.

Well said Jammer. Great points and to me, Martin is trying to now take advantage of the system and with no doubt with Mommy & Daddy's assistance, but would Ted Ginn's family be proud?


Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:25 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
jammer wrote:
I just keep going back to the fact that Martin texted Incognito and said he doesn't blame him and met with Philbin at the hospital prior to lawyering up.


Martin also said he blamed the lockeroom culture and from what I understand, he filed a complaint against the Miami Dolphins as an organization, not Richie Incognito as a player. The Dolphins were the ones that suspended Richie Incognito. Possibly a CYA move because their plan to toughen up Martin was blowing up in their face.

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If there was a known existence of harassment that was impacting his play why wouldn't A. they address it or B. ship him out of town prior to the trade deadline. If Martin is so concerned with continuing his football career but hated the Miami environment couldn't his agent have approached Ireland to be traded or released? Heck, apparently he has all this leverage to force his way out of town.


A lot of what ifs and a lot of simple solutions, but a simplification of the issue without knowing everything that was going on.

Just a couple of days ago you were telling PR to be careful about jumping the gun on this issue. Interesting.

Quote:
So now they are creating a strategy to ensure he gets his money.


Oh, did they tell you about it?

Quote:
Every NFL locker room has to be concerned about a player or two pulling the same thing.


As opposed to being concerned about having abusive players in their lockeroom causing problems?

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Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:31 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
Finhead34 wrote:
Well said Jammer.


More of those opinions without all of the information.

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Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:32 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
More of those opinions without all of the information.

Rich, as it stands right now. Martin whether he was harassed, fondled, whatever he was dealing with has now caused the entire organization to go into a tailspin with NFL league investigations as well hours and hours of negative publicity.

Heck, the investigators aren't even addressing Martin until the END of next week I read in reports, not close to talking to Incognito yet. SO, what IF Incognito gets absolved of all this? His NFL career has been put on hold at best, possibly over. All because a 6'5 315 pound teammate tattled to the media.

If he was THAT profound of how he felt on all this, why not march into Philbins and Irelands office and ask or demand for a trade, I am miserable and I am no longer interested in playing for the Miami Dolphins, heck invite Ross to that meeting.

I am sorry but even with the worst that he is dealing with, this media surge and throwing the entire organization under the bus could have been avoided. It is a goat rodeo.

I also get and understand what your saying about all the "facts" are yet to be compiled or at least most of them, but the principle of Martin in how he approached all this has done the damage.


Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:40 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
Finhead34 wrote:
Martin whether he was harassed, fondled, whatever he was dealing with has now caused the entire organization to go into a tailspin with NFL league investigations as well hours and hours of negative publicity.


So if the Dolphins as an organization fostered an environment where it was OK to treat Martin this way because they wanted to toughen him up, he is the reason everything happened?

Interesting logic.

Quote:
All because a 6'5 315 pound teammate tattled to the media.


Incognito was suspended by the Miami Dolphins, not the media. They don't have that authority. Neither does Jonathan Martin. Martin's first official statement to the media happened Thursday night.

Quote:
If he was THAT profound of how he felt on all this, why not march into Philbins and Irelands office and ask or demand for a trade, I am miserable and I am no longer interested in playing for the Miami Dolphins, heck invite Ross to that meeting.


"Hey guys, you were the ones that ordered that code red on me. Could you trade me now?"

Quote:
this media surge and throwing the entire organization under the bus could have been avoided.


Or, if the organization fostered the reported environment, not fostering that type of environment in the first place would have avoided all this.

Quote:
but the principle of Martin in how he approached all this has done the damage.


Oh, so if the Dolphins ordered Incognito to mentor Martin and toughen him up and he went overboard with it, it's Martin's fault?

Again, this logic is interesting.

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Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:51 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
I'm asking questions, not concluding anything. PR was calling for the firing of Joe Philbin because he ordered Incognito to toughen up Martin. There is no evidence of this.

There has been a series of events unfolding that do not add up. That is about the only consistent thing in this mess.

I find Martin's approach odd because there might have been simple alternatives. I don't know any of this for a fact but the suggestions can be made. It is very possible that he tried these things and the organization told him to go pound sand.

In terms of the remark of "Oh they told you this", well why else would you lawyer up unless there was a concern about money? Maybe its for his contract or maybe its to simply sue the organization. Either way it is about money. Miami has the ability to cut him and not pay another dime. Its not like he needs a lawyer for criminal defense. Anyone in his position would do the same unless they were content with simply walking away.

My locker room comment was in regard to the door now being opened for to take on the environment. And yes, it seems to happen in a lot of locker rooms based on current and former player remarks, so some of these guys have to be concerned they will be held accountable for their actions. I didn't suggest protecting that type of environment so I'd appreciate that my comment not being twisted in that manner.


Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:53 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
Rich wrote:
Finhead34 wrote:
Well said Jammer.


More of those opinions without all of the information.


Rich havnt you done the same thing?


Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:54 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
jammer wrote:
I'm asking questions, not concluding anything.


So flatly stating that his parents are managing this for financial reasons is asking a question? You didn't add this to the conversation as a what if, you flatly said this is what is going on.

Quote:
There is no evidence of this.


Exactly, so why flatly state that his parents are now managing this for financial reasons if you don't actually know this?

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well why else would you lawyer up unless there was a concern about money?


Um... because there is going to be a full blown investigation going on...? Everyone involved will be getting legal representation, including Incognito. If the investigation turns up nothing, couldn't Incognito or the Dolphins counter-sue Martin?

Anyone involved in this situation would be an idiot to not get legal representation.

Quote:
My locker room comment was in regard to the door now being opened for to take on the environment. And yes, it seems to happen in a lot of locker rooms based on current and former player remarks, so some of these guys have to be concerned they will be held accountable for their actions. I didn't suggest protecting that type of environment so I'd appreciate that my comment not being twisted in that manner.


Your comment wasn't twisted. I actually asked a clarifying question...

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Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:58 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
It's OK Rich because I do see where you are coming from, I just don't feel that way in how this was all handled from Martin and no matter what "potential" bad things happened to this grown 6'5 300 pound man.


Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:58 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
AQNOR wrote:
Rich wrote:
Finhead34 wrote:
Well said Jammer.


More of those opinions without all of the information.


Rich havnt you done the same thing?


No, I haven't.

I don't have a definitive opinion about this particular situation. I've brought up other possibilities to counter comments by those that have made up their minds.

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Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:59 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
Finhead34 wrote:
It's OK Rich because I do see where you are coming from, I just don't feel that way in how this was all handled from Martin and no matter what "potential" bad things happened to this grown 6'5 300 pound man.


Why do you keep mentioning his height and weight?

Mind over matter...

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Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:00 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
The only mind I have made up is that I think Martin should have handled all this more privately.


Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:00 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
Finhead34 wrote:
The only mind I have made up is that I think Martin should have handled all this more privately.


I don't recall a press conference by Martin to discuss all of this. I recall he left the team, checked into a hospital, then flew out to be in his family and the media started prying, which is their job.

I recall this really started blowing up when Martin provided his evidence and the Dolphins reacted by suspending Incognito.

Maybe Martin's represenatives started leaking information to the media and that is a likely scenario. Maybe someone else did the leaking. We don't know.

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Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:06 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
Rich wrote:
AQNOR wrote:
?


No, I haven't.

I don't have a definitive opinion about this particular situation. I've brought up other possibilities to counter comments by those that have made up their minds.


This quote is from another thread on this site.

Rich wrote:
And maybe the coaches should have addressed the toughness issue directly with the player instead of getting crazy-ass Richie Incognito to toughen him up. And maybe Ireland shouldn't have told Martin's representatives that Martin should resolve the issue with violence.

Like I said, bad movie.

This all goes back to leadership, or lack thereof.


The last part seems like a definitive opinion, what am I missing? I do notice the maybe's in the main part of the quote but the last part seems declarative.


Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:09 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
AQNOR wrote:
The last part seems like a definitive opinion, what am I missing?


Context, well, the context isn't missing. You're just choosing to ignore it for whatever reason.

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Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:12 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
Rich wrote:
AQNOR wrote:
The last part seems like a definitive opinion, what am I missing?


Context, well, the context isn't missing. You're just choosing to ignore it for whatever reason.


Thanks.


Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:17 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
I don't recall a press conference by Martin to discuss all of this. I recall he left the team, checked into a hospital, then flew out to be in his family and the media started prying, which is their job.

I recall this really started blowing up when Martin provided his evidence and the Dolphins reacted by suspending Incognito.

Maybe Martin's represenatives started leaking information to the media and that is a likely scenario. Maybe someone else did the leaking. We don't know.

Your right Rich and for all we know right before Martin's teammates got up in the cafeteria and him flipping his lunch tray like a pissed off little boy, perhaps someone on the team tried to steal his lunch money too.

He took off abruptly and like a little baby, that started all the hoopla, by him leaving the team.


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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
Rich wrote:
Um... because there is going to be a full blown investigation going on...? Everyone involved will be getting legal representation, including Incognito. If the investigation turns up nothing, couldn't Incognito or the Dolphins counter-sue Martin?

Anyone involved in this situation would be an idiot to not get legal representation...


I'm actually glad you said this because it got me to thinking of the chain of events.

-Martin leaves the team, checks into a hospital

-Meets with Philbin, texts Incognito

-Meets with parents, lawyers up

-Informs the Dolphins of what happened

-Miami hears evidence, suspends Incognito, and asks the NFL to conduct an investigation

-Voicemail text (some of it) released to the press

-Players react by supporting Incognito; Hartline and Clabo take veiled shots at Martin

-More damaging information released about Incognito

I don't recall reading about Martin filing a complaint against the Dolphins so I wouldn't know where to put that in the chain of events.

Maybe he has lawyered because he's afraid the investigation will not turn up anything in his favor and therefore he faces lawsuits from the Dolphins and Incognito. My suspicion is otherwise but for now that is nothing more than a guess based on the events.

The only thing I've concluded is that nothing is adding up and this isn't simply a clear cut bullying case.


Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:20 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
Finhead34 wrote:
He took off abruptly and like a little baby, that started all the hoopla, by him leaving the team.


Maybe he should have stayed in a situation who could no longer handle and really gone off the deep end... and then we'd be talking about Dolphins players and coaches shot by a player who went nuts.

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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
jammer wrote:
I don't recall reading about Martin filing a complaint against the Dolphins so I wouldn't know where to put that in the chain of events.


When his representatives turned over the text messages and voicemail(s?) to the Dolphins and the NFL.

Quote:
ESPN, NFL.com and other media outlets reported that representatives for Martin submitted voicemails containing racial slurs and threats of physical violence to the league and the Dolphins.


http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/04/us/nfl-do ... suspended/

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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
Rich wrote:
jammer wrote:
I don't recall reading about Martin filing a complaint against the Dolphins so I wouldn't know where to put that in the chain of events.


When his representatives turned over the text messages and voicemail(s?) to the Dolphins and the NFL.

Quote:
ESPN, NFL.com and other media outlets reported that representatives for Martin submitted voicemails containing racial slurs and threats of physical violence to the league and the Dolphins.


http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/04/us/nfl-do ... suspended/


Okay, you're on my poop list for A. Making me go to CNN and B. posting an article titled "NFL Dolphins...".

Kidding aside, I only saw that evidence was submitted, not an actual complaint to the NFL against the Dolphins.

I also forgot to add in that list that players said this wasn't the first time Martin wanted to quit playing football.

It just makes me wonder if he figured out that Miami could rid itself of his contract and recoup his signing bonus based on his quitting.


Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:25 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
jammer wrote:
Kidding aside, I only saw that evidence was submitted, not an actual complaint to the NFL against the Dolphins.


Why else would the evidence be submitted? Not sure if serious... O_o

Quote:
I also forgot to add in that list that players said this wasn't the first time Martin wanted to quit playing football.

It just makes me wonder if he figured out that Miami could rid itself of his contract and recoup his signing bonus based on his quitting.


Or maybe he wanted to quit because he was struggling in the environment?

Cris Carter mentioned an interesting point that a lot of young players go through this type of thing, wondering if they are cut out for the NFL, when they aren't dominating early on like they did in college.

It makes sense.

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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
Rich wrote:
Why else would the evidence be submitted? Not sure if serious... O_o


The Dolphins called for the investigation, not the NFL. So I'm not sure if a formal complaint was filed against the Dolphins. It could just be that Martin told them about the environment and provided evidence to support his claim.

There are multiple possibilities of why he might want to quit, the environment being one of them. But, if it comes down to Miami deciding not to pay him for leaving the team then testimony of his prior comments could be used against him. This is why part of me wonders if after talking to his parents they all realized the financial ramifications of his actions. If they were going to target Dolphins for fostering such an environment or go after Incognito for bullying wouldn't they have bypassed the organization and gone straight to the NFL? Or filed something in court? I'm not an attorney and don't know the process. I just know things aren't adding up and both sides seem to be holding secrets.


Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:48 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
jammer wrote:
I just know things aren't adding up and both sides seem to be holding secrets.


Things aren't adding up because the information isn't complete. That's why everyone needs to take a step back and let this play out, as frustrating as it is.

Ted Wells will be meeting with Jonathan Martin late next week, and at this point presumably Martin will give his complete side of the story.

We'll see what happens then.

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Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:52 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
Rich wrote:
Things aren't adding up because the information isn't complete. That's why everyone needs to take a step back and let this play out, as frustrating as it is.

Ted Wells will be meeting with Jonathan Martin late next week, and at this point presumably Martin will give his complete side of the story.

We'll see what happens then.


It's perfectly acceptable to state your opinions as this situation plays out as long as one is man enough to admit when they're wrong if that's the case.

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Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:07 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
It's perfectly acceptable to state your opinions as this situation plays out as long as one is man enough to admit when they're wrong if that's the case.

I agree Rock and as of right now, my opinion is Martin is a big puss.


Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:13 pm
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Post Re: Parcells :Dolphins OL Richie Incognito was ‘a model citizen
Rich wrote:
Things aren't adding up because the information isn't complete.


While true, I was thinking more along the lines of this being a simple case of bullying, which is what the media and Martin's spokesperson originally wanted us to believe.

The players' interviews and commentary were pretty damning in my opinion. If they were under orders from the brass then why didn't they just respond with "no comment" or the always popular "We're going to put this behind us and come together as a team" ?


Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:07 pm
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